Windows ME and Linux....about bootup

[Sinjax]

hello everyone....my first psot on this board....
I wanted to ask about selective boot up
i currently have windows ME and i want to get Linux as well
i'm going to buy a seperate harddrive so linux can have one devoted to it
now...before i do this...i wanted to know how i would go about makin it so at the boot up....it asks me which OS to run
cus i want to use Linux...and i want to get used to the enviroment....but i also want to keep ME running

any suggestions
-Sinjax

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LOOK....A DISTRACTION

[chenliway]

u can use lilo which comes with linux (i dont know how to use it) or you could use bootmagic which is really easy to use but i think it costs money. or you could always pirate it =X

[Sinjax]

boot magic will work?
are u sure...
cus i thought of usin that in the first place...
but i was told by someone that it wouldn't work

[chenliway]

well im not really sure...
im a big newb. i got windows and linux on the same hard drive and it works. dunno bout seperate ones

[Sinjax]

urr...
no..i definetly want to put linux on one hard drive on its own...i fear partisions...i got lots of work on my HD
also...i was gonna ask...how would i go about usin boot magic..
would i install linux...then install boot magic
or visa versa...

[Tiger]

Dual booting Linux and Win9x isn't difficult but be prepared to make some decisions.

1. Can you install the Linux /boot partiton completely below cylinder 1024 of your boot drive? This is necessary because of a limitation in LILO, the Linuxloader. Some newer distro's use Grub for the bootloader, specifically Mandrake 7.2, it doesn't have this limitation.

2. If you haven't got or can't free up a spare partition on your windows drive to get under 1024, about 8.4G on todays LBA drives, do you want to buy something like Partition Magic to do un-destructive re-partitioning of the primary drive?

3. Have you got your Windows data backed up and do you have a good Windows bootdisk?

If you've got room on the primary drive for /boot you can install Linux, install LILO on the Master Boot Record of the primary drive. After booting, LILO will run and give you a prompt to decide which OS to boot. You've got about 5 seconds to type DOS at the prompt and hit enter, or hit Tab and select the OS to boot.

Here are a couple of Links to explain the process.

LILO (http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/osbooting/lilo_dual.html)

Dual Boot (http://www.slackware.com/book/index.php?source=x1776.html)

Read the articles, print them out, and be sure your comfortable with the entire process before trying it. Third party boot manangers like Bootmagic and System Commander cause more trouble than their worth. They write a custom MBR and are hell to get rid of if you have to.


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Badges? We don't need no stinking badges.



[This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 01 February 2001).]

[Sinjax]

Tigger...u r the man....no...don't doubt it....you r the man...
but before i go off on my merry way to try to install linux properly..
i would like to know if i got my facts straight...
ok
I have to make a partician for Linux at the beggining of my harddrive (so its before that 1024th cylinder thing)....i'll make it like 10Gb
Then i have to install Linux into this new partician
after this the Linux boot manager LILO will give me the option of either running windows or linux
and it should work...
is this correct?

PS...
After i do this will Linux be able to read the Windows partician and visa versa
also....
will Linux be able to use files from the windows partician


[This message has been edited by Sinjax (edited 01 February 2001).]

[hswoolve]

A couple of points to clarify about Lilo on the master boot record:

LILO has had the 1024 restriction removed in its newest version, but I don't know if any of the distributions are shipping with the newest LiLo.

(this from reading other posts)
/boot must begin and end below the 1024th cylinder if you're using an older version of LiLo.

One last warning ... install WinME first, then linux. Windows does things to the mbr I think.

[Sinjax]

sorry...
i'm a little confused about wht u mean
ur sayin i have to make the partician smaller than the 1024 cylinder?
or wht

[yeepin]

Err... nope.
When you install linux, you need to create partitions. For a start, you will need a (1) a swap partition (2) a boot partition (/boot) and (3) a root partition (/). IMHO that will be the easiest configuration to start with. Note: some other who are more familiar, will create seperate partitions like /home, /usr etc. You can play around with that later.

What Tiger and hswoolve means is that the /boot partition must start and end before the 1024th cylinder. The boot partition is usually small. I put mine at 16MB. You can put the rest of the partitions anywhere else. It is the "positioning" (pardon me if I use the wrong term) rather than the "size" of the partition.

So, let's say I have a 20G hard disk. I just have to make sure my /boot partition is created before the 8G 'mark' of my hard disk. I use Partition Magic to resize and move my partitions. You can use other software as well.

If you choose to use Partition Magic, read my post about my unfortunate experience at http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/014631.html

For more info, you can read the NHFs at http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/installation/index.html

I'm a real newbie.. so someone please correct me If I'm wrong. I dun want to mess up other's pc.

Hope this helps http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/wink.gif

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As you reach forward with one hand, accept the advice of those who have gone before you; and in the same manner, reach back with the other hand to those who follow you; for life is a fragile chain of experiences held together by love. Take pride in being a strong link in that chain.

[Tiger]

The / or root partition must reside completely below 8.4 Gig to be sure that /boot makes it. If any part of /boot stradles the line it might work but probably will not.

Say you've got a 10Gig HD, Your Windows partition/s takes up 7Gig. You can install Linux on the remaining space and be sure that the / partition will be below cylinder 1024, as long as the / partition isn't 1 Gig or bigger. Nobody uses one that big unless your a huge corporation.

Linux names partitions differently than DOS/Windows does.

First hard drive = /dev/hda
Second hard drive = /dev/hdb
.
.
.
.
First hard drive, primary partition 1 (C:\) = /dev/hda1
First hard drive, primary partition 2 (D:\) = /dev/hda2 etc....

You can have up to 4 primary partitions. You can have as many logical partitions as you want limited only by the size left on the drive.

A typical Windows/Linux install.

First Windows partition (C:\) = /dev/hda1
Second Windows partition (D:\) = /dev/hda2
Extended partition = /dev/hda3
First Linux logical partition = /dev/hda5
Second Linux logical partition =/dev/hda6

As long as the boot directory of the first linux logical partition, /, lies completely below cylinder 1024 of the primary or boot drive, LILO will work.

The new LILO gets rid of the 1024 cylinder thing. It would help to know how the drive is setup right now.

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Badges? We don't need no stinking badges.



[This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 01 February 2001).]

[Sinjax2]

dudes...this is Sinjax...
i had to log in again...as i am at school....and i didn't change my password
ok....
so...
First of all i have to say that i DON'T no wht the linux instalation is like AT ALL....so i don't no wether it gives me the option to put the various boot and root stuff...
but the the idea that i am gettin is
that i have to use a partician program to make a partician no bigger than 8.5 GB at the beginin of my harddrive...
so
I have a 40.1Gb harddrive
i have to make a partician of say...5Gb for linux and move that to the begginin of the drive
then i should install linux....
true?
i really don't no about what you mean about the boot folder having to be bellow the 1024 cylinder thing...
but i presume that if i install linux in the 5Gb partician that i have created....it will sort out itself
true?
or completley wrong
If there are some things that i have said in this post that make it quit obvious don't no enough about linux...would you please be good enough to direct me to some texts or tuts that will tell me what i have to learn
cus i REALLY don't want to **** this up the first time i try
cheers...
-Sinjax

[ 02 February 2001: Message edited by: Sinjax2 ]

[Tiger]

At this point I think the best thing you could do is get yourself a good general reference book on Linux.

I suggest "Running Linux" 3rd ed. by Matt Welsh and Lar Kauffman. It's published by O'Reilly.

I understand your wanting to jump into this thing with both feet. I felt the same way when I started, but I had an extra computer laying around to experiment on before I ever tried doing a dual boot system. We could go back and forth on the BB, royaly screwing up your system, and end up having you throw up your hands and walk away.

I don't want that to happen! :)

So, get the book, check out the NHF's, hang around here and try to absorb some stuff.

BTW, there's a direct link to the NHF's at the top of the page.

[ 02 February 2001: Message edited by: Tiger ]