JesseJames
03-15-2003, 09:49 PM
The server is irc.freenode.net and the channel is #dux.
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Ludootje
03-16-2003, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Resident_Geek
GHJ - Grasshopper Journal? It's 11 pages, so I'm not planning to read it, but anyone know what happened? How far'd it get?
I was one of the starters and webmasters. what happened: we made the website, wrote some content, after a while we released number one, noticed that although a lot of people said they'd help, only few were actually writing, then we tried to bring out a second issue, and had to work a lot to have enough content, since there were only few people. so we dropped it. you can still read the docs though, and some are on tinyminds.
we (well, at least I) learned a lot when doing it though, that's what counts imho... I don't think Dux Linux (btw you should really rename it to Dux GNU/Linux) will succeed, but you'll probably learn a lot from it.
GHJ - Grasshopper Journal? It's 11 pages, so I'm not planning to read it, but anyone know what happened? How far'd it get?
I was one of the starters and webmasters. what happened: we made the website, wrote some content, after a while we released number one, noticed that although a lot of people said they'd help, only few were actually writing, then we tried to bring out a second issue, and had to work a lot to have enough content, since there were only few people. so we dropped it. you can still read the docs though, and some are on tinyminds.
we (well, at least I) learned a lot when doing it though, that's what counts imho... I don't think Dux Linux (btw you should really rename it to Dux GNU/Linux) will succeed, but you'll probably learn a lot from it.
Ludootje
03-16-2003, 07:48 AM
There's already a company called 'dux software' - I think you're probably violating a copyright..
MMA
03-16-2003, 07:56 AM
But this is Dux Linux. :D
We'll change the name only if the company contacts us :):)
We'll change the name only if the company contacts us :):)
bwkaz
03-16-2003, 11:47 AM
Trademark, not copyright. ;)
But yeah, you may want to change it, or wait until they contact you and play dumb. Either way, just don't get sucked into court over it! :eek:
But yeah, you may want to change it, or wait until they contact you and play dumb. Either way, just don't get sucked into court over it! :eek:
yinrunning
03-16-2003, 02:37 PM
A challenge to all our naysayers: Help or bugger off. Right now, we have a small group who are dedicated to the project. We have a number of people with not much experience who want to help once they are pointed in the right direction.
Then, we have all these other people sitting around telling us how we're just gonna fail or give up or how our ideas are nice but we don't know enough to do it, etc. Well, hey. If you're such gods, then help out.
I was just looking at some Jaguar-sponsored Tech Timeline of the last 10 yrs. in Wired Mag. It's really kind of crazy that things we never would have dreamed of 10 years ago are commonplace today. And the poeple who've made those things possible always, historically speaking, have a peanut gallery telling them that they can't do it.
I'm gonna learn enough to build a very kick-*** 3D Desktop Environment with the help of some friends. I know that this is possible. Anyone who says I can't: I can show you where to shove it.
Then, we have all these other people sitting around telling us how we're just gonna fail or give up or how our ideas are nice but we don't know enough to do it, etc. Well, hey. If you're such gods, then help out.
I was just looking at some Jaguar-sponsored Tech Timeline of the last 10 yrs. in Wired Mag. It's really kind of crazy that things we never would have dreamed of 10 years ago are commonplace today. And the poeple who've made those things possible always, historically speaking, have a peanut gallery telling them that they can't do it.
I'm gonna learn enough to build a very kick-*** 3D Desktop Environment with the help of some friends. I know that this is possible. Anyone who says I can't: I can show you where to shove it.
Chadduss
03-16-2003, 02:54 PM
Hey I agree with ya man. It is possible. All the power to you guys!
BTW -What's the update on the support for Windows and mac files?
BTW -What's the update on the support for Windows and mac files?
MMA
03-16-2003, 04:33 PM
Give me a week and i'll build the base for dux (or what ever its called, we might want to change it :)).
I'll build the latest LFS, which i think is: 4.0-RC1
This should give us a upto date base system. I wil then upload this base system to the server. and Each team can download it and try to install what ever there working on.
This is the first base system. We will keep this base the same for atleast a month or two.
Just give me a week :-) thats all i ask.
I'll build the latest LFS, which i think is: 4.0-RC1
This should give us a upto date base system. I wil then upload this base system to the server. and Each team can download it and try to install what ever there working on.
This is the first base system. We will keep this base the same for atleast a month or two.
Just give me a week :-) thats all i ask.
oubipaws
03-16-2003, 07:20 PM
Ok everybody, I have a few things that I have got to say...
Apology --> I would like to apologize to everyone who is involved in this project about me not being involved very much since it started. I have spent very little time on the IRC channel at all. My schedule for school is extremely screwed up right now (3 classes a day :( ) and plus I have had a major project to do for the last two weeks. But anyway, enough excuses guys, I promise to get involved and help out more.
Next thing --> Project bashing, stop with the putting down the project and saying it will never get done. Most of the bashing hasn't been done on this forum (as a matter of fact, none of it really has), but this message is for future knowledge. If you want to criticize the project, go ahead, but realize before you do, that its just stupid as hell, atleast take the time and give reasoning for your thoughts. I mean, dont just say, oh you can never do that, people, we know this isn't some two week project or over summer break thing, Dux is going to take a very long time to build with everything we want in it. a 3D desktop alone will take atleast 2-3 years to build, and I mean, I'm in it for the long run and I'm prepared to do what it takes to do to get it done. It sounds to me like yinrunning feels the same way, and I wish we had more people helping like him and MMA than people putting Dux down.
Next Thing #2 --> MMA LFS Dist.... Thanks for doing this, you are creating the first step in the process of creating Dux. I will spend this week setting up the sunsite servers. Take all the time you need.
Next Thing #3 --> WE NEED DEVELOPERS... EVERYONE HELPING IN THIS PROJECT, RIGHT NOW I NEED YOU TO FIND DEVELOPERS. WE NEED TEAMS TO HELP WITH THIS PROJECT.
Next Thing #4 --> website... yinrunning, you still want to do the site, or you want a post nuke site once the sunsite server is up?
Next Thing #5 --> more on the teams, once MMA gets the base done, we are in desperate need of teams to do tasks. I'm going to run the KDE team if thats cool with people and I'm going to search for developers for my team. Yinrunning and MMA (once done with the Base) if you guys could do the same for what ever area you choose. anybody else who wants a group, i need to know. basic groups:
KERNEL
XFree86
GNOME
KDE
WINDOW MAKER
EMULATION
ENTERTAINMENT
INTERNET
GRAPHICS
GAMES
... if you have another idea, share it
Next Thing #6 --> forum communication will stay on justlinux untill we get our own forums because our biggest group of people interested lies inside of just linux.
Next Thing #7 --> duxlinux.org? I was going to buy it today, then I realized, do we even have to buy one right now?
Next Thing #8 --> as I said first thing, I am sorry for not helping as much as I should, and I will do more, but for communications, I can't do alot of IRC, i dont have internet inside of linux, so work and internet can't be done at the same time, but I can reboot and check my mail pretty often, so email is the best form of contacy for me unless you would like to set scheduled meetings.
Next Thing #9 --> chaddus --> windows and mac is a possibility, not a confirmed feature yet, we will work on including this though.
Next Thing #10 --> final thing :p We can't just start saying we are going to include things yet (which i have been doing :o), we need to get a base built, then set a team to maintain it, then we will start working on the extras.
ooo yeah, as for the 3D Desktop, I'm trying to think of same ways that this would help the linux community so that when people ask, we can come back and say "we can do this... and it'll help by...", know what i mean?
Apology --> I would like to apologize to everyone who is involved in this project about me not being involved very much since it started. I have spent very little time on the IRC channel at all. My schedule for school is extremely screwed up right now (3 classes a day :( ) and plus I have had a major project to do for the last two weeks. But anyway, enough excuses guys, I promise to get involved and help out more.
Next thing --> Project bashing, stop with the putting down the project and saying it will never get done. Most of the bashing hasn't been done on this forum (as a matter of fact, none of it really has), but this message is for future knowledge. If you want to criticize the project, go ahead, but realize before you do, that its just stupid as hell, atleast take the time and give reasoning for your thoughts. I mean, dont just say, oh you can never do that, people, we know this isn't some two week project or over summer break thing, Dux is going to take a very long time to build with everything we want in it. a 3D desktop alone will take atleast 2-3 years to build, and I mean, I'm in it for the long run and I'm prepared to do what it takes to do to get it done. It sounds to me like yinrunning feels the same way, and I wish we had more people helping like him and MMA than people putting Dux down.
Next Thing #2 --> MMA LFS Dist.... Thanks for doing this, you are creating the first step in the process of creating Dux. I will spend this week setting up the sunsite servers. Take all the time you need.
Next Thing #3 --> WE NEED DEVELOPERS... EVERYONE HELPING IN THIS PROJECT, RIGHT NOW I NEED YOU TO FIND DEVELOPERS. WE NEED TEAMS TO HELP WITH THIS PROJECT.
Next Thing #4 --> website... yinrunning, you still want to do the site, or you want a post nuke site once the sunsite server is up?
Next Thing #5 --> more on the teams, once MMA gets the base done, we are in desperate need of teams to do tasks. I'm going to run the KDE team if thats cool with people and I'm going to search for developers for my team. Yinrunning and MMA (once done with the Base) if you guys could do the same for what ever area you choose. anybody else who wants a group, i need to know. basic groups:
KERNEL
XFree86
GNOME
KDE
WINDOW MAKER
EMULATION
ENTERTAINMENT
INTERNET
GRAPHICS
GAMES
... if you have another idea, share it
Next Thing #6 --> forum communication will stay on justlinux untill we get our own forums because our biggest group of people interested lies inside of just linux.
Next Thing #7 --> duxlinux.org? I was going to buy it today, then I realized, do we even have to buy one right now?
Next Thing #8 --> as I said first thing, I am sorry for not helping as much as I should, and I will do more, but for communications, I can't do alot of IRC, i dont have internet inside of linux, so work and internet can't be done at the same time, but I can reboot and check my mail pretty often, so email is the best form of contacy for me unless you would like to set scheduled meetings.
Next Thing #9 --> chaddus --> windows and mac is a possibility, not a confirmed feature yet, we will work on including this though.
Next Thing #10 --> final thing :p We can't just start saying we are going to include things yet (which i have been doing :o), we need to get a base built, then set a team to maintain it, then we will start working on the extras.
ooo yeah, as for the 3D Desktop, I'm trying to think of same ways that this would help the linux community so that when people ask, we can come back and say "we can do this... and it'll help by...", know what i mean?
Ludootje
03-17-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by bwkaz
Trademark, not copyright. ;)
But yeah, you may want to change it, or wait until they contact you and play dumb. Either way, just don't get sucked into court over it! :eek:
Since it's a trademark, it's probably copyrighted, no? Just a guess actually, but it seems pretty logical to me... Chances that you get in court for that or almost non-existant, but it's possible their laywers (howtf do I write that:eek: ) contact you, if dux software notices your project. it's better to change the name now, then if the project is known... it's a cool name, but it's better to avoid those problems. or just contact Dux Software, and ask them if they have a problem with you starting a non-profit project called Dux Linux (although Dux GNU/Linux would be better;))
Trademark, not copyright. ;)
But yeah, you may want to change it, or wait until they contact you and play dumb. Either way, just don't get sucked into court over it! :eek:
Since it's a trademark, it's probably copyrighted, no? Just a guess actually, but it seems pretty logical to me... Chances that you get in court for that or almost non-existant, but it's possible their laywers (howtf do I write that:eek: ) contact you, if dux software notices your project. it's better to change the name now, then if the project is known... it's a cool name, but it's better to avoid those problems. or just contact Dux Software, and ask them if they have a problem with you starting a non-profit project called Dux Linux (although Dux GNU/Linux would be better;))
bwkaz
03-17-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Ludootje
Since it's a trademark, it's probably copyrighted, no? No. You can't copyright short stuff like that.
Copyrights are for works of art, literature, whatever, that are fairly long.
Patents (not brought up, but still relevant) are for ideas.
Trademarks are for logos, company names, etc. -- stuff that gets associated with the reputation of an individual or company.
You can't use someone else's trademarks because if their product is good and yours is crap (think what would happen if MS called the next Windows "RedHat" instead of "Longhorn" here), you can ruin their reputation in the eyes of people that don't know any better.
EDIT: Just thought; what I'm saying is my understanding of U.S. law. Laws may be (and probably are) different in other countries.
Since it's a trademark, it's probably copyrighted, no? No. You can't copyright short stuff like that.
Copyrights are for works of art, literature, whatever, that are fairly long.
Patents (not brought up, but still relevant) are for ideas.
Trademarks are for logos, company names, etc. -- stuff that gets associated with the reputation of an individual or company.
You can't use someone else's trademarks because if their product is good and yours is crap (think what would happen if MS called the next Windows "RedHat" instead of "Longhorn" here), you can ruin their reputation in the eyes of people that don't know any better.
EDIT: Just thought; what I'm saying is my understanding of U.S. law. Laws may be (and probably are) different in other countries.
z0mbix
03-17-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by yinrunning
I do believe you've asked us this before. And I do believe that at this point we're still not entirely sure, but that we have a much better notion. Help or piss off, how bout that?
That's a very friendly and mature response. I can see with that frame of mind, this "so called distro" is going to go really far. I can just see the #dux irc channel topic now:
use dux or piss off, how bout that?
:rolleyes:
I do believe you've asked us this before. And I do believe that at this point we're still not entirely sure, but that we have a much better notion. Help or piss off, how bout that?
That's a very friendly and mature response. I can see with that frame of mind, this "so called distro" is going to go really far. I can just see the #dux irc channel topic now:
use dux or piss off, how bout that?
:rolleyes:
StaticDischarge
03-17-2003, 05:37 PM
Hey guys,
Check out this link: http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#longhorn
I thought this was a very interesting article.
This could be either a problem or a help to us...
It could be a really big problem supporting "longhorn" applications...
Or we could advertise the fact that people will still be able to use their "non-longhorn" software in Dux, and forget longhorn support.
I realize this is a long ways away for both us and Microsnot...but it's just something to think about for the future.
Your thoughts?
Check out this link: http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#longhorn
I thought this was a very interesting article.
This could be either a problem or a help to us...
It could be a really big problem supporting "longhorn" applications...
Or we could advertise the fact that people will still be able to use their "non-longhorn" software in Dux, and forget longhorn support.
I realize this is a long ways away for both us and Microsnot...but it's just something to think about for the future.
Your thoughts?
EvilFlyingCow
03-18-2003, 12:10 AM
I think what you guys should try is to set out a time frame.
Set goals.
Make a schedule and stick to it.
Set dates to get certain small projects finished that will add up to the overall project.
It's nice to talk about all the goodies and extras that you will eventually add to it; the name and catch-phrases; the logos and mascotts; etc... but that will all fall in place later. Why not do some actual planning? Let's get down to business!
I like the idea of this Dux Linux, it has been very entertaining reading all the posts. I would love to help in any way i can, if that only means becoming a beta tester. I do not yet know alot of programming language or coding beyond BASIC and HTML, but I am a freshman in college and my major is Computer Science. So as I learn more I will have more and more to contribute.
Good Luck on the project and talk to you all soon! :cool:
http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg
Set goals.
Make a schedule and stick to it.
Set dates to get certain small projects finished that will add up to the overall project.
It's nice to talk about all the goodies and extras that you will eventually add to it; the name and catch-phrases; the logos and mascotts; etc... but that will all fall in place later. Why not do some actual planning? Let's get down to business!
I like the idea of this Dux Linux, it has been very entertaining reading all the posts. I would love to help in any way i can, if that only means becoming a beta tester. I do not yet know alot of programming language or coding beyond BASIC and HTML, but I am a freshman in college and my major is Computer Science. So as I learn more I will have more and more to contribute.
Good Luck on the project and talk to you all soon! :cool:
http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg
plattypus1
03-18-2003, 12:29 PM
I read that article... and I fear it's implications. Every file on the planet owned my Micro$#!%, having to pay them to use your own computer. Let us all hope Linux is an extremely viable desktop choice by 2k5. :( [worry] :(
oubipaws
03-18-2003, 12:47 PM
website is up:
http://dux.sunsite.dk
http://dux.sunsite.dk
MMA
03-18-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by oubipaws
website is up:
http://dux.sunsite.dk
I like that design. Well except for the post nuke part :D:D:D
website is up:
http://dux.sunsite.dk
I like that design. Well except for the post nuke part :D:D:D
MMA
03-18-2003, 01:01 PM
Also it seems a bit slow. :D
DerekKraan
03-18-2003, 01:50 PM
I know PHP(and such things that go along with it), Java, C++, and I'm learning OpenGL. I've been doing this for about a year now...is there a place for me? I'm certainly willing to learn.
MMA
03-18-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by DerekKraan
I know PHP(and such things that go along with it), Java, C++, and I'm learning OpenGL. I've been doing this for about a year now...is there a place for me? I'm certainly willing to learn.
PM yinrunning. He seems the person who's taking care of the website developping. He needs help with php, he just started out. I'm sure you can help. If you can make something similar to (or maybe not as advanced) the dux website oubie posted, then it would be great :)
Welcome to Dux Linux :)
I know PHP(and such things that go along with it), Java, C++, and I'm learning OpenGL. I've been doing this for about a year now...is there a place for me? I'm certainly willing to learn.
PM yinrunning. He seems the person who's taking care of the website developping. He needs help with php, he just started out. I'm sure you can help. If you can make something similar to (or maybe not as advanced) the dux website oubie posted, then it would be great :)
Welcome to Dux Linux :)
yinrunning
03-18-2003, 03:41 PM
Indeed. except for the stuff that oubi and mma are doing right now with the base install, website is our #1 Objective. We need a central place besides this thred and #dux to point people to. #dux is awesome for our day-to-day stuff, but horrible for mass dispersal of info. And this thred has many limitations. So, LET'S ALL DO THE WEBDESIGN THING!! :D
PM me or go to #dux, or both! for more info.
PM me or go to #dux, or both! for more info.
yinrunning
03-18-2003, 04:36 PM
btw - I don't know that I've ever posted an "I Want" list to this thred, and between being too lazy at the moment to ga back and check as well as whatever I might've said before having changed in the intervening time: here goes.
- more aggresive pursuit of newer kernel releases as they become practical, enabling new hardware/software features.
- the possible pursuit of a 3D desktop that provides enhanced functionality if possible, as well as looking really freakin cool.
- less dependence on KDE/GNOME as defaults for the desktop in general. I personally don't happen to like them, use them and their features as little as possible, and feel that from the few distros I'm familiar with, something along the lines of RedHat offereing those two choices only as part of its standard graph. install is just kinda depressing, considering all the choices out there. But, RH is aimed at a different audience, and therefore has its own priorities. No beef with the approach, just doesn't work for me.
3D is a big chink to swallow in and of itself. LONG TERM GOAL.
- PACKAGES!!! I hate .rpm's, I think they're a royal pain in the tush. I know lots and lots of people use them successfully all the time, and that's great, but I'll take either straight-up .tar.gz src-code OR apt-get and similars any day of the week over .rpm's. Broken dependencies really chafe me where the sun don't shine. This is a big big goal in and of itself that requires alot of work and attention to detail, but Hey, it's an "I Want", not a "we have". :D
- This is the big one, and it's kind of a "I Don't Want": Native support for anything but linux binaries is never ever gonna be part of the Linux Kernel for a whole lot of very valid reasons that have been stated all over the place. A good set of emulators being included in the base install is fine and good, but I don't want us to spend oodles of time watching a pot that's never gonna boil. Leave the emulation work up to the people who are developing that stuff independently, and just make sure that we have it well-represented is my vote, since this seems to be a big deal for so many people.
- The corresponding I Want would be that I want this project to be a haven for cutting-edge Linux Software. LINUX software, not Windows/MAC/etc. -on-Linux software. One of the greatest things about running linux is that you don't have to rely on Big Bill anymore. So, why keep perpetuating the companies that pray at the altar of Redmond and nowhere else?
My thought is this, and this is not for the people who want emulation support for things they've kazaa'd. That's a whole diff. subject:
If you actually do go out and buy a copy of.... Paint Shop Pro, to give a random example, and then bring it straight home and stick it on Wine. (Don't know how valid this example is, I don't actually use Wine or any other emulater. Like I usually say: "That's what I have an XP box for.") How is that furthering the development of great Linux software and furthering your lack of dependence on Microsoft? All Jasc Software would see would be another Windows-based program being sold. But, if they and their competitors started seeing business go out the door for a competitively-priced package that only runs on *nix.... wouldn't that turn a few heads in management? Make them start thinkin about putting out a version meant just for us? Remember, "free software" does NOT mean "software for 0 dollars and 0 cents. It can, but that's not the real meaning of the phrase. It means choice. It means not needing an emulator in the first place, because the Linux version does everything you want and more. As is the case with such a lowly function as command-line regular expressions. Anybody tried to search for complex strings in DOS lately? Good luck!! You can do it, but the Linux implementation is so much more powerful. That's choice. If the DOS version had just been cloned or ported or emulated or whatever (a historical impossibility, I know. I'm being rhetorical here! :D), that choice would have been gone. That is, at the core, why I don't emulate. I don't like the principle of the thing. That's me, I'm idealistic and probably impractical, but I really think that it's something we all need to give a bunch of thought to considering where we're going with all of this.
I know I've ruffled alot of feathers with some of my comments here and elsewhere aimed at the people who've doubted this project. I don't apologize for those comments, because I still feel that alot of people are being overly-judgemental and unfairly expecting us to have certain things decided at this very early stage of the project. I would, however, welcome the comments of anyone who thinks I'm a big *** in light of this post.
- more aggresive pursuit of newer kernel releases as they become practical, enabling new hardware/software features.
- the possible pursuit of a 3D desktop that provides enhanced functionality if possible, as well as looking really freakin cool.
- less dependence on KDE/GNOME as defaults for the desktop in general. I personally don't happen to like them, use them and their features as little as possible, and feel that from the few distros I'm familiar with, something along the lines of RedHat offereing those two choices only as part of its standard graph. install is just kinda depressing, considering all the choices out there. But, RH is aimed at a different audience, and therefore has its own priorities. No beef with the approach, just doesn't work for me.
3D is a big chink to swallow in and of itself. LONG TERM GOAL.
- PACKAGES!!! I hate .rpm's, I think they're a royal pain in the tush. I know lots and lots of people use them successfully all the time, and that's great, but I'll take either straight-up .tar.gz src-code OR apt-get and similars any day of the week over .rpm's. Broken dependencies really chafe me where the sun don't shine. This is a big big goal in and of itself that requires alot of work and attention to detail, but Hey, it's an "I Want", not a "we have". :D
- This is the big one, and it's kind of a "I Don't Want": Native support for anything but linux binaries is never ever gonna be part of the Linux Kernel for a whole lot of very valid reasons that have been stated all over the place. A good set of emulators being included in the base install is fine and good, but I don't want us to spend oodles of time watching a pot that's never gonna boil. Leave the emulation work up to the people who are developing that stuff independently, and just make sure that we have it well-represented is my vote, since this seems to be a big deal for so many people.
- The corresponding I Want would be that I want this project to be a haven for cutting-edge Linux Software. LINUX software, not Windows/MAC/etc. -on-Linux software. One of the greatest things about running linux is that you don't have to rely on Big Bill anymore. So, why keep perpetuating the companies that pray at the altar of Redmond and nowhere else?
My thought is this, and this is not for the people who want emulation support for things they've kazaa'd. That's a whole diff. subject:
If you actually do go out and buy a copy of.... Paint Shop Pro, to give a random example, and then bring it straight home and stick it on Wine. (Don't know how valid this example is, I don't actually use Wine or any other emulater. Like I usually say: "That's what I have an XP box for.") How is that furthering the development of great Linux software and furthering your lack of dependence on Microsoft? All Jasc Software would see would be another Windows-based program being sold. But, if they and their competitors started seeing business go out the door for a competitively-priced package that only runs on *nix.... wouldn't that turn a few heads in management? Make them start thinkin about putting out a version meant just for us? Remember, "free software" does NOT mean "software for 0 dollars and 0 cents. It can, but that's not the real meaning of the phrase. It means choice. It means not needing an emulator in the first place, because the Linux version does everything you want and more. As is the case with such a lowly function as command-line regular expressions. Anybody tried to search for complex strings in DOS lately? Good luck!! You can do it, but the Linux implementation is so much more powerful. That's choice. If the DOS version had just been cloned or ported or emulated or whatever (a historical impossibility, I know. I'm being rhetorical here! :D), that choice would have been gone. That is, at the core, why I don't emulate. I don't like the principle of the thing. That's me, I'm idealistic and probably impractical, but I really think that it's something we all need to give a bunch of thought to considering where we're going with all of this.
I know I've ruffled alot of feathers with some of my comments here and elsewhere aimed at the people who've doubted this project. I don't apologize for those comments, because I still feel that alot of people are being overly-judgemental and unfairly expecting us to have certain things decided at this very early stage of the project. I would, however, welcome the comments of anyone who thinks I'm a big *** in light of this post.
elote_caliente
03-18-2003, 04:55 PM
A duck?
Doesn't Darwin have a duck as its mascott...You should try to come up with something more unique. If anything, I would be able to help you out with the design of this new mascott...:)
Doesn't Darwin have a duck as its mascott...You should try to come up with something more unique. If anything, I would be able to help you out with the design of this new mascott...:)
StaticDischarge
03-18-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by elote_caliente
A duck?
Doesn't Darwin have a duck as its mascott...You should try to come up with something more unique. If anything, I would be able to help you out with the design of this new mascott...:)
yea, but i'm sure darwin doesn't have a duck with 4 legs :D
A duck?
Doesn't Darwin have a duck as its mascott...You should try to come up with something more unique. If anything, I would be able to help you out with the design of this new mascott...:)
yea, but i'm sure darwin doesn't have a duck with 4 legs :D
StaticDischarge
03-19-2003, 12:34 PM
Look at what I did...
Tux is now a Dux ... LOL
Tux is now a Dux ... LOL
yinrunning
03-19-2003, 02:22 PM
forums are up at dux.sunsite.dk
Stop on by!!!
Stop on by!!!
plattypus1
03-19-2003, 07:03 PM
Nice tux duck... but I think it needs four legs. :-)
El_Cu_Guy
03-19-2003, 08:31 PM
Doesn't Darwin have a duck as its mascott...
Mascots
Darwin = None, orange Apple logo
DarwinOS = Hexley (http://www.hexley.com/) the Platypus (community created, not officially sanctioned by Apple Computer, Inc.)
Mascots
Darwin = None, orange Apple logo
DarwinOS = Hexley (http://www.hexley.com/) the Platypus (community created, not officially sanctioned by Apple Computer, Inc.)
LOfromMO
03-20-2003, 01:20 PM
I am a brand new (and I do mean NEW) Linux user having been a MS/Windows user all my life. So what's this to do with the thread? Well, someone says they want to write a Linux OS that is compatible with Windows. I might be wrong, but I am thinking about converting to Linux to get AWAY from Bill Gates....not give him yet another thing to be able to screw up and making money while he's doing it.
We apparently have tons of programming expertise out there. Why not write our own (Linux) programs that do what we want them to accomplish like Windows programs do but not be compatible (thus requiring Linux and Windows to unite)? I would rather see Linux NOT become buddy-buddy with Microsoft and give Bill Gates an opportunity to buy us out (and trust me...if he gets the chance, he WILL).
We apparently have tons of programming expertise out there. Why not write our own (Linux) programs that do what we want them to accomplish like Windows programs do but not be compatible (thus requiring Linux and Windows to unite)? I would rather see Linux NOT become buddy-buddy with Microsoft and give Bill Gates an opportunity to buy us out (and trust me...if he gets the chance, he WILL).
StaticDischarge
03-20-2003, 01:46 PM
good thoughts, but easier said than done.
first off, we have decided not to include native windows program support as of yet...
however, programs such as wine will be included...
If, somewhere down the road native windows program support is achieved by someone it will be for this reason...
... granted there are many alternatives to windows based programs such as openoffice vs. microsoft office.
Programs designed for windows are usually created by well equiped teams of hundreds of programmers ... as you read our thread you will realize that we are not as well off as some major software companies (heck, we get excited when someone gets a 6 gig box we can use as a server).
There is simply a larger market for companies with windows users (ex. some windows users are dumb enough to shell out up to $700 for microsoft office) ... therefore some of the best programs out there are designed for windows and would be near impossible to duplicate.
hence the need to use windows based programs
just remember, a lot of these programs are not created by our big buddy Bill ... but he does line their pokets very well for their support.
... however, the future is getting brighter as we are seeing an increased number of major software companies creating linux versions of their software.
yet, there is still a need for non-linux software and there will always be a need for support of older programs.
first off, we have decided not to include native windows program support as of yet...
however, programs such as wine will be included...
If, somewhere down the road native windows program support is achieved by someone it will be for this reason...
... granted there are many alternatives to windows based programs such as openoffice vs. microsoft office.
Programs designed for windows are usually created by well equiped teams of hundreds of programmers ... as you read our thread you will realize that we are not as well off as some major software companies (heck, we get excited when someone gets a 6 gig box we can use as a server).
There is simply a larger market for companies with windows users (ex. some windows users are dumb enough to shell out up to $700 for microsoft office) ... therefore some of the best programs out there are designed for windows and would be near impossible to duplicate.
hence the need to use windows based programs
just remember, a lot of these programs are not created by our big buddy Bill ... but he does line their pokets very well for their support.
... however, the future is getting brighter as we are seeing an increased number of major software companies creating linux versions of their software.
yet, there is still a need for non-linux software and there will always be a need for support of older programs.
MMA
03-20-2003, 05:04 PM
People. For once and for all.
I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO STOP GOIN ABOUT THIS WINDOWS TO LINUX THING. Come on maann.
It was a thought some poor soul thought up and i'm sure he/she is regretting it right now.
So please, stop with the "windows to Linux" thing. I am sick of hereing it.
ps: i tried. I tried. I tried to keep it in. But you people kept on pushing and pushing me. :mad:
....... :) now that feels much better
I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO STOP GOIN ABOUT THIS WINDOWS TO LINUX THING. Come on maann.
It was a thought some poor soul thought up and i'm sure he/she is regretting it right now.
So please, stop with the "windows to Linux" thing. I am sick of hereing it.
ps: i tried. I tried. I tried to keep it in. But you people kept on pushing and pushing me. :mad:
....... :) now that feels much better
oubipaws
03-20-2003, 07:08 PM
emulation is a no...no no and no, we were going to keep it in, but you people pissed us off with all your bickering about it.
btw.. can we use the dux site forums from now on?
btw.. can we use the dux site forums from now on?
LOfromMO
03-20-2003, 10:40 PM
Whoops! I'm sorry. I didn't know that talking about Linux as a preference over Windows was a no-no.
I will stop posting on this site and not bother you folks anymore.
I will stop posting on this site and not bother you folks anymore.
oubipaws
03-20-2003, 10:49 PM
I didn't mean stop posting, I meant that we had the forums up on the dux site and I wanted you to come over there to talk about it
theevilblah
03-21-2003, 03:17 PM
I would be more than willing to help out with the webdesign. Are we resigstered on sourceforge? If you need my help
email - ilya@unixclan.net or ilya@zoomstats.org
AIM - ilya020
MSN - ilya020@hotmail.com
IRC - I chill in #slackware under Ilya..
cheers,
Ilya
email - ilya@unixclan.net or ilya@zoomstats.org
AIM - ilya020
MSN - ilya020@hotmail.com
IRC - I chill in #slackware under Ilya..
cheers,
Ilya
dungscooperdave
03-21-2003, 06:00 PM
Okay, I've decided what I want for features. I want a distro that's just as easy to install as Mandrake except I want it to use a package-management system just like Gentoo's portage. That's all I want. Gimme that and you've got my money.
MMA
03-21-2003, 07:54 PM
I've finished building the base and will be available for people to try stuff in under a week or so. it consists of:
MAKEDEV-1.7
autoconf-2.53
automake-1.6.3
bash-2.05a
bin86-0.16.3
binutils-2.13
bison-1.35
bzip2-1.0.2
diffutils-2.8.1
e2fsprogs-1.27
ed-0.2
file-3.39
fileutils-4.1
flex-2.5.4a
gawk-3.1.1-2
gcc-3.2-nofixincludes-2
gcc-3.2
gettext-0.11.5
glibc-2.2.5-2
glibc-linuxthreads-2.2.5
grep-2.5
groff-1.18
gzip-1.2.4b
kbd-1.06-3
less-374
lfs-bootscripts-1.10
libtool-1.4.2
linux-2.4.19
m4-1.4
make-3.79.1
man-1.5k
man-pages-1.52
modutils-2.4.19
ncurses-5.2-2
net-tools-1.60
netkit-base-0.17
patch-2.5.4
perl-5.8.0
procinfo-18
procps-2.0.7
psmisc-21
sed-3.02
sh-utils-2.0
shadow-4.0.3
sysklogd-1.4.1
sysvinit-2.84
tar-1.13
texinfo-4.2
textutils-2.1
util-linux-2.11u
zlib-1.1.4
grub-0.92
nano-1.0.9
Now i'm gonna install Portage and will try to make a bootable CD that looks and acts like a simple (very simple) installer.
MAKEDEV-1.7
autoconf-2.53
automake-1.6.3
bash-2.05a
bin86-0.16.3
binutils-2.13
bison-1.35
bzip2-1.0.2
diffutils-2.8.1
e2fsprogs-1.27
ed-0.2
file-3.39
fileutils-4.1
flex-2.5.4a
gawk-3.1.1-2
gcc-3.2-nofixincludes-2
gcc-3.2
gettext-0.11.5
glibc-2.2.5-2
glibc-linuxthreads-2.2.5
grep-2.5
groff-1.18
gzip-1.2.4b
kbd-1.06-3
less-374
lfs-bootscripts-1.10
libtool-1.4.2
linux-2.4.19
m4-1.4
make-3.79.1
man-1.5k
man-pages-1.52
modutils-2.4.19
ncurses-5.2-2
net-tools-1.60
netkit-base-0.17
patch-2.5.4
perl-5.8.0
procinfo-18
procps-2.0.7
psmisc-21
sed-3.02
sh-utils-2.0
shadow-4.0.3
sysklogd-1.4.1
sysvinit-2.84
tar-1.13
texinfo-4.2
textutils-2.1
util-linux-2.11u
zlib-1.1.4
grub-0.92
nano-1.0.9
Now i'm gonna install Portage and will try to make a bootable CD that looks and acts like a simple (very simple) installer.
bwkaz
03-21-2003, 10:56 PM
MAKEDEV? You could use devfs, IMHO it's quite a bit better. You don't take up a thousand device nodes that way, which is why I think it's better.
It's a bit odd at times, but the biggest hurdle is just the chicken-and-egg problem where you don't have a device file to query so that the module loads, because the module loading is what creates the file. So you have to run devfsd to look for ... something. I don't remember exactly what it's for, but I do know you need it. :p
Just an idea. You obviously don't have to use it, but if you've got any questions about devfsd or whatever, go ahead and ask.
It's a bit odd at times, but the biggest hurdle is just the chicken-and-egg problem where you don't have a device file to query so that the module loads, because the module loading is what creates the file. So you have to run devfsd to look for ... something. I don't remember exactly what it's for, but I do know you need it. :p
Just an idea. You obviously don't have to use it, but if you've got any questions about devfsd or whatever, go ahead and ask.
MMA
03-22-2003, 06:20 AM
Yeh i was thinking about devfs. I mean gentoo uses it. But i don't quite understand it.
I'll look into it later on, if MAKEDEV gives us trouble. THNX for the advice.
I'll look into it later on, if MAKEDEV gives us trouble. THNX for the advice.
MorphiusFaydal
03-22-2003, 01:31 PM
hey, in dux, you guys should include ogg vorbis support. its open source and its free. its website is www.vorbis.com. anyway, its just a thought.
ashibaka
03-22-2003, 01:42 PM
Vorbis is a requirement for XMMS and other packages, I believe.
MMA
03-22-2003, 01:50 PM
We will support nearly every thing, DiVX, MP3, OGG, MPEG etc etc.
We won't be like redhat and not support some of the stuff. It will be available out of the box (once its ready for a stable release :D)
We won't be like redhat and not support some of the stuff. It will be available out of the box (once its ready for a stable release :D)
Twe
03-22-2003, 03:05 PM
Hey this project sounds great, if i can help in any way what so ever just tell me, I can make random crappy web sites, I started to learn C++ the other day, I have no idea what I am doing with linux and find my self reinstalling about 3 different Distros a day, but I love it. I was thinking of making my own distro this summer usin the LFS as a guide/ entirly stealing Red hat and putting my own logo on it :D, I would be willing to do anything as right now I am bored, reeeally reeally bored.
ashibaka
03-22-2003, 03:23 PM
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it.
MMA
03-22-2003, 03:24 PM
come on and join: http://dux.sunsite.dk
Welcome to Dux Linux
Welcome to Dux Linux
bwkaz
03-22-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by ashibaka
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it. Yeah, let's see you make a good GUI toolkit in pure, unadulterated C.
Good luck.
BTW: Gtk+ is a pain in the BUTT to program with, if you haven't noticed.
:rolleyes:
I'm not saying C++ is the be-all, end-all of programming, far from it (the kernel, for example, would end up with too much OO overhead if it was written in C++), but it's not crap either. There are some things that are better done in C++ than anything else.
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it. Yeah, let's see you make a good GUI toolkit in pure, unadulterated C.
Good luck.
BTW: Gtk+ is a pain in the BUTT to program with, if you haven't noticed.
:rolleyes:
I'm not saying C++ is the be-all, end-all of programming, far from it (the kernel, for example, would end up with too much OO overhead if it was written in C++), but it's not crap either. There are some things that are better done in C++ than anything else.
yongbeng
03-25-2003, 04:47 AM
hi all!!
I'm rather new to linux...but I saw your thread and is very very interested...what is it all about???can I do my bit???I wanna join!!
I'm rather new to linux...but I saw your thread and is very very interested...what is it all about???can I do my bit???I wanna join!!
MMA
03-25-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by yongbeng
hi all!!
I'm rather new to linux...but I saw your thread and is very very interested...what is it all about???can I do my bit???I wanna join!!
did you read the whole thread? (all 20 pages?) :D:D
its been explained :D:D
its not good to reinvent the wheel :D:D
hi all!!
I'm rather new to linux...but I saw your thread and is very very interested...what is it all about???can I do my bit???I wanna join!!
did you read the whole thread? (all 20 pages?) :D:D
its been explained :D:D
its not good to reinvent the wheel :D:D
Ludootje
04-18-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by MMA
its not good to reinvent the wheel :D:D
IMHO that seems kinda what you guys are doing with this project heh :)
just wondering, but isn't the project dead? I don't see a lot of activity on the site, except for the mirror which isn't working (what's the use of a mirror anyway? it doesn't seem to offer anything more then sunsite (no cvs, just ssh as something sunsite doesn't have), and I doubt it's because sunsite can't handle the load of visitors the Dux site is having ;)
How far are you guys with it?
its not good to reinvent the wheel :D:D
IMHO that seems kinda what you guys are doing with this project heh :)
just wondering, but isn't the project dead? I don't see a lot of activity on the site, except for the mirror which isn't working (what's the use of a mirror anyway? it doesn't seem to offer anything more then sunsite (no cvs, just ssh as something sunsite doesn't have), and I doubt it's because sunsite can't handle the load of visitors the Dux site is having ;)
How far are you guys with it?
sharth
04-18-2003, 11:23 AM
Personally, I expected it to die before it was finished. :( However, there is a sourceforge page for it (i think), and i thought that the thread moved to linuxquestions.org
bs_texas
04-18-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by ashibaka
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it.
Kids.
:rolleyes:
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it.
Kids.
:rolleyes:
MMA
04-18-2003, 12:02 PM
Lets just say we have paused the development of dux for now. This is becuase some of us in the team goto College/Uni/School and would like to revise and concentrate on their exams.
So we'll have something to download and install after the exams, which could be july or august. :D
Keep checking :)
So we'll have something to download and install after the exams, which could be july or august. :D
Keep checking :)
yinrunning
04-18-2003, 12:37 PM
Yes, paused would be the word. :) But not dead. We have to edumacate ourselves, both in school and in what it's taking to keep truckin on with the project.
Slow, but not dead.
Slow, but not dead.
zie
04-19-2003, 08:43 PM
Huh? What u guys are trying to do?? Make a new OS?
My suggestion, to accomplish your goals, why don't start with writing a kernel patch that will allow linux kernel to run Mac OS binaries. Someday Linus will notice ur patch and incorporate it into the linux kernel, and let the linux vendors do their job. I think it is a much more realistic goal than to create a new full blown OS.
Also ur website at dux.sunsite.dk doesn't really work. It is very very slow from here. About 3D GUI, there is a project called 3dwm. Good luck.
My suggestion, to accomplish your goals, why don't start with writing a kernel patch that will allow linux kernel to run Mac OS binaries. Someday Linus will notice ur patch and incorporate it into the linux kernel, and let the linux vendors do their job. I think it is a much more realistic goal than to create a new full blown OS.
Also ur website at dux.sunsite.dk doesn't really work. It is very very slow from here. About 3D GUI, there is a project called 3dwm. Good luck.
Resident_Geek
04-19-2003, 09:09 PM
Don't give suggestions if you're not going to read the thread. Mac support has been suggested in at least 50 posts, and we already discussed 3dwm.
carrja99
05-04-2003, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by ashibaka
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it.
I must say this is dumb, dumb, DUMB!
Grow up...
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language!?
Please....
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language. Take up C instead, you'll actually be able to do something with it.
I must say this is dumb, dumb, DUMB!
Grow up...
C++ is a horrible excuse for a programming language!?
Please....
shadowrider
05-04-2003, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by bwkaz
MAKEDEV? You could use devfs, IMHO it's quite a bit better. You don't take up a
thousand device nodes that way, which is why I think it's better.
It's a bit odd at times, but the biggest
hurdle is just the chicken-and-egg problem
where you don't have a device file to query
so that the module loads, because the module
loading is what creates the file.
So you have to run devfsd to look for ... something.
I don't remember exactly what it's for, but I do know
you need it. :p
yep i agree that devfs is usefull.
from gentoo forum:
What is devfs? Do I really need it in my kernel?
Devfs isn't a file system in the traditional sense of the
term with regard to how data is structured inside a partion.
Rather, devfs is a system that allows the kernel to
automagically make relevent hardware device entries
in your /dev/ directory when it initializes a driver
that is either built into the kernel or when a
module is loaded.
While Gentoo can be run without devfs,
you will have to manually make new device entries
in the /dev/ directory on your own with the mknod or
mkdev commands, which introduces some extra (and usually needless) complexity
MAKEDEV? You could use devfs, IMHO it's quite a bit better. You don't take up a
thousand device nodes that way, which is why I think it's better.
It's a bit odd at times, but the biggest
hurdle is just the chicken-and-egg problem
where you don't have a device file to query
so that the module loads, because the module
loading is what creates the file.
So you have to run devfsd to look for ... something.
I don't remember exactly what it's for, but I do know
you need it. :p
yep i agree that devfs is usefull.
from gentoo forum:
What is devfs? Do I really need it in my kernel?
Devfs isn't a file system in the traditional sense of the
term with regard to how data is structured inside a partion.
Rather, devfs is a system that allows the kernel to
automagically make relevent hardware device entries
in your /dev/ directory when it initializes a driver
that is either built into the kernel or when a
module is loaded.
While Gentoo can be run without devfs,
you will have to manually make new device entries
in the /dev/ directory on your own with the mknod or
mkdev commands, which introduces some extra (and usually needless) complexity
Sepero
07-25-2004, 08:00 PM
This thread has ARISEN from the DEAD!
(hehehe)
(hehehe)
Loki3
07-25-2004, 08:07 PM
Now it's undead!
sharth
07-25-2004, 11:03 PM
Why, oh why. was this ressurected... :-p
bwkaz
07-25-2004, 11:19 PM
Boy, I wish I hadn't said that about devfs... :p
Udev is much better nowadays (just in case anybody gets the idea to take my advice there... ;))
Udev is much better nowadays (just in case anybody gets the idea to take my advice there... ;))
EnigmaOne
07-26-2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Sepero
This thread has ARISEN from the DEAD!
(hehehe)
::: Heating up the tar and tearing open a few pillows. :::
This thread has ARISEN from the DEAD!
(hehehe)
::: Heating up the tar and tearing open a few pillows. :::
Parcival
07-26-2004, 03:40 AM
Time to get out the silver bullets. ;)
gehidore
07-26-2004, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by Sepero
This thread has ARISEN from the DEAD!
(hehehe)
i wonder how that happened?
Serpero.
This thread has ARISEN from the DEAD!
(hehehe)
i wonder how that happened?
Serpero.
hard candy
07-26-2004, 09:32 AM
Bang, bang- two bullets to the monster's heart ends the terror forever. Our hero walks off in the sunset with the girl, the money, and the source code. :)
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