The Ultimate Newbie

[MallClerks Dogma]

Forgive my complete ignorance, but search engines seem to turn up jack, and even this site doesn't seem to help much. What is the advantage of Linux over other OSes? What version and how do I get it installed? I want to learn Linux, at least basically, but my programming knowledge beyond HTML sucks. Hell, I could barely get Pascal, and whatever that one my high school made me take before that. So, to sum it up, I'm lazy, and I want to at least try Linux.

[frank754]

Well, since nobody's replied yet. Many
advantages, plus it's open source, which
means folks like Bill Gates don't profit
from it. It's not newbie-friendly yet tho,
and if you have a winmodem, you won't get
online. If you get an "easy" version like
Mandrake 8.0, it should be easy to install,
including your printer anyway, and you
get a graphical desktop, like KDE for
example. If you want to install programs
or do system tasks, you can't be lazy, there's a lot to learn, especially in this
sites NHF (newbieized help files). I'm
sure others will add their rants to this thread, but glad you want to take the first
step. It won't be easy...

[drmbb]

Okay, forgive my pissyness, but why? Why do you want to learn Linux? If you are seriously interested, then there is an amazing abudance of information available - a simple Google search will turn up more information than you could read in a year, as would a visit to your local book store.

Do you want to program? Linux is an excellent programming OS, as it also is for server applications, and for me and many of us here, as a desktop OS as well. But to say, "why should I switch, tell me" smacks of trolling, and at the least, of laziness in trying to learn.

If you really are looking for a distro to try, and are just beginning, get ManDrake Freq 3 - simple to install, easy to set up, and gives you the cutting edge in apps (well, except for some library dependancies, which is all part of learning Linux anyway, so yeah, ManDrake Freq 3 - go for it).

If your serious, and I'm just coming across as cranky, sorry - post further and we'll get you going.

[slacker_x]

I'm lazy and I use linux!

It's not impossible, but I would say you have to be stubborn and lazy or else you will just give up.

The advantage of linux is that you can run it on almost any computer and it is customizable. The disadvantage is that there is a VERY big learning curve. Great way to learn if you are interested in computers though. Linux has made me learn about many different computer concepts so that I could get various things to work.

I would say linux has 2 main purposes, a hobby OS and a production server OS. You can use it as a desktop OS, but it's more difficult to setup that say windows and you are still probably going to miss some of the luxuries of windows thus the "hobby" description.

[Mr.Shifty]

if your lazy u DONOT want to learn linux lazy and linux do not go hand in hand nor have they ever nor will they ever

with that said let me welcome you to the linux world a mismash of open source software and greater control

the advantages well a linux is faster stronger and sleeker than any ms OS i have ever used (95 all the way to 2k)
with that said allow me to toss a sweet lil saying i like to apply to linux

The Price For Power is Complexity

linux it self is just a kernel the rest of what we all call a linux os is open source software provided by the GNU project which is ran by the free software foundation (FSF)
among other developing partys aswell.

once again to be lazy is to be forever a enduser

secondly being as u had no idea what to look for when u were searching ( i find this very odd and even more unlikly as any search engine with the single phrase "linux" would have turned up gobs of info)

and to tag on that lazy isshue even more

linux comes in countless flavors or u can build your own (as i am right now)

to even have a basic understanding of linux u will have to learn the following things

1.how to use the command prompt and the command's therein

2.learn to understand how partitions and file systems work (this is damn near relearning a computer os as most knowldge u learned in windows is garbage when applied to linux(this is my experince so far)

3.know how to unpack the many types of packing be it .tar,.bz2,.tgz,.rpm,.deb,.tar.bz2 ect
then learn to ./configure install and run programs under linux (once again nothing u learned in windows applies here)

4.learn and understand the many system files ect

5.this is vital as u must know how to configure the kernel and reinstall it

u will have to go through your comp and list all your hardwarer then search to see if its even compatible with linux and if it requires any special work to get it working (most oftin the case)

basically a lazy person will only fail in linux and should honestly stay in windows

i should point out that useing your current "lazy" method will slow u down as well for you will see more RTFM and search first ask last remarks rather than answers

also right here at LNO there is sooooo much info it can be overwhelming at first but its here alot of tech support can be found in irc

so id suggest you commit your self to learning linux and be adviced learning linux in my experince has so far been 70% reading studying and searching the other 30% is the time i spend applying the knowldge

and i have been useing linux for a month and ill have my first LFS system done by tonight (pending any unforeseen problems)


pardon the jumble as i just got home from work and trying to balance a wife kids 2 dogs the phone bills and this post all in one shot LOL me=not as multitask capable as linux

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Mr.Shifty ]

[Craig McPherson]

Here's an objective analysis (http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/31/16820/2342) of the pros and cons of Linux.

Unfortunately, this poll shows that nobody actually uses it (http://www.adequacy.org/?op=view_poll;qid=999108477_sbUDMizJ). DOS is still surprisingly strong at 35%, Windows dominates at 38%, and OS/2 is still alive at 21%. The poll is unscientific but I suspect it's fairly accurate.

[MallClerks Dogma]

Originally posted by drmbb:
<STRONG>Okay, forgive my pissyness, but why? Why do you want to learn Linux? If you are seriously interested, then there is an amazing abudance of information available - a simple Google search will turn up more information than you could read in a year, as would a visit to your local book store.</STRONG>

Thanks, just trying to get a feel for the kind of people on this bored. Apparently you didn't even read the post.

[MallClerks Dogma]

Originally posted by Mr.Shifty:
<STRONG>secondly being as u had no idea what to look for when u were searching ( i find this very odd and even more unlikly as any search engine with the single phrase "linux" would have turned up gobs of info)
[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Mr.Shifty ]</STRONG>

Gobs of info, none of it useful or what I was looking for.

[chikn]

IF you are gonna be such a smart *** your not gonna get very far looking for answers here. :rolleyes:

[MallClerks Dogma]

Originally posted by chikn:
<STRONG>IF you are gonna be such a smart *** your not gonna get very far looking for answers here. :rolleyes:</STRONG>


Thanks for being specific.

[Barre311]

If you want to learn Linux, do be prepared for some long hours at the computer. Distributions such as Mandrake are easy to install initially, but getting modems and video cards to work takes time and effort. If you currently use Windows, and don't have a great deal of computing knowledge, i.e., programming, IT, etc., Linux won't have many advantages over other OSes. But if you're in the mood to learn more about a great OS, you'll need to answer a 2 questions. Why are you interested in Linux? What would you like to do with it? Answer me these, and I'll be more than happy to help you find more info.

Good luck.

[rattus]

I'm a troll, but I'm really lazy.

So, instead of having to come up with a way to trick everybody into getting wound up with whatever ridiculous thing I've decided to post, I'm just going to say

TROLL

And you can all jump up and down, OK? :D

[newmad]

Originally posted by Craig McPherson:
<STRONG>Here's an objective analysis (http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/31/16820/2342) of the pros and cons of Linux.

Unfortunately, this poll shows that nobody actually uses it (http://www.adequacy.org/?op=view_poll;qid=999108477_sbUDMizJ). DOS is still surprisingly strong at 35%, Windows dominates at 38%, and OS/2 is still alive at 21%. The poll is unscientific but I suspect it's fairly accurate.</STRONG>

Oh Gawd Craig, this was one of the funniest things I've read in the looongest time :) I'm *still* chuckling... Man, you cracked me up! PING - criminal proggy - :) Brilliant. Hilarious links. Serious - You oughta be in comedy show biz, writing or something. Maybe help Iliad with User Friendly. Thanks for the laughs! Keep up the good work!

[Bully_Crist]

Linux is reet because of apt.

'nuff said.

[Aragorn]

Originally posted by MallClerks Dogma:
<STRONG>Forgive my complete ignorance, but search engines seem to turn up jack, and even this site doesn't seem to help much. What is the advantage of Linux over other OSes? What version and how do I get it installed? I want to learn Linux, at least basically, but my programming knowledge beyond HTML sucks. Hell, I could barely get Pascal, and whatever that one my high school made me take before that. So, to sum it up, I'm lazy, and I want to at least try Linux.</STRONG>

MallClerks Dogma,

Unfortunately you got attacked for asking a simple question. You'll find that a certain part of the Linux community doesn't like to answer questions before you have spent days trying to find an answer. As much as I appreciate the effort by newbies to try and find the answer themselves, I still believe some questions if not most should be able to just be asked and answered, isn't that what Linux support forums are all about. To answer your question with my experience is the advantages over other OS's are that your not going to crash every few minutes to an hour. You also have a highly customizable system, in all honesty it is fully customizable if you have the time and knowledge. Linux is nice in the fact that it will go on virtually any computer, of course there are exceptions. Linux is a HAVEN for programmers, and you don't need programming knowledge to get Linux installed, but it is a nice OS if and when you want to start. As far as installing it, I suggest mandrake as your first distro, so I would recommend purchasing the CD that comes with the manual(very cheap) or if you want to scrap the manual just download it. You then can boot off of the CD and the installation process is a breeze, just follow the onscreen instructions. Now as far as being lazy, well you can be lazy, but it makes for a little bit of a harder time. You need to be stubborn at the least, because some hardware can be a bit of a pain in the arse to get working. Although there is a lot of resources for hardware issues on the net as well as forums that are willing to help. You can feel free to come to my site and ask any question you'd like. So far I don't have any members that are sticklers about doing the research first, and I will address that if it ever becomes and issue there. You can check it out at

http://********linuxonline.com

Aragorn
Admin of GetLinuxOnline.Com

[Craig McPherson]

Originally posted by newmad:
<STRONG>Oh Gawd Craig, this was one of the funniest things I've read in the looongest time :) I'm *still* chuckling... Man, you cracked me up! PING - criminal proggy - :)</STRONG>

But it is a criminal proggy! How else do you explain this?

-f Flood ping. Outputs packets as fast as they come back or one hundred times per second, whichever is more... Only the super-user may use this option. This can be very hard on a network and should be used with caution.

-s Packetsize: Specifies the number of data bytes to be sent. The default is 56, which translates into 64 ICMP data bytes when combined with the 8 bytes of ICMP header data.

[newmad]

Craig - to avoid going off-topic here on MallClerks post, I started a thread in Off Topic on this, titled
"New Distro - CriminalLinux :)" .
Whaddya think? Jump on in...

Aragorn - good advice. Like your site. Keep up with the Debian, it rocks :)

MallClerk - SilentBob couldn't get his soundcard working, thus the name - :)

[alkalinelito]

what is TROLL ?

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by alkalinelito:
<STRONG>what is TROLL ?</STRONG>

craig can answer this best :p

but in the mean time

troll - internet jargon (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html)

the use for bbs/forums is about the same as the original usenet

[Radar]

Unfortunately, this poll shows that nobody actually uses it. DOS is still surprisingly strong at 35%, Windows dominates at 38%, and OS/2 is still alive at 21%. The poll is unscientific but I suspect it's fairly accurate.

That's because Linux was excluded from the poll.

[jrbush82]

Going back to the original question...

Linux is a great OS, it takes some time, reading and a little bit of dedication. I am very much so the lazy one now, but you gotta give Linux some time in the beginning. It is a completely different OS than what you are used to, so it'll be quite different. I started out with Mandrake. About every piece of my hardware was not working after first installation and boy was I in a heap of confusion. Take it one at a time. After roughly a month, I had everything working with Mandrake and knew the file system, system files and all that good stuff very well. Now, I run Slackware 8.0 (not as user friendly, more stable). Linux takes some time to getting used to, and you'll ask yourself, "What's the point." Then you'll go back into Windows, and before it even gets to the login screen (after a fresh install) you'll get the famous blue screen of death, and laugh your *** off and go back into Linux. Stability is the major thing I love about Linux. My games run about three times as quick using OpenGL, my system never crashes! (unless I use SDL instead, but thats fixed now). My system is configured right now perfectly running a firewall, internet connection sharing, my NVIDIA drivers, SBLive and all the goods. Its perfect. One thing I love about linux is that pretty much any software you need, you just download. There isn't really any pirating. =)

Good Luck,
Jason

[gadjo]

I've been using Mandrake 8.0 for about 2 weeks and have sorted out a few minor things that were causing me some concern, mainly through my own ignorance.

If you want to try Linux, Mandrake 8.0 is easy to install and auto detected my Soundblaster Live, Nvidia Geforce graphics and HP 930c printer without a problem.

As for the why should you part of the origianl posting, that is entirely up to you. I tried Linux because i was sick fed up of having Wind-ohs causing so much crap on an hourly, daily basis. I'd heard how good Linux was and thought, I'd have a look.Check the sys requirements first, cos it may cause some probs on older machines, so an earlier versionof Linux may be needed.

Within 20 minutes of installing Mandrake 8, you have an internet ready, workable desktop. You might want to write down your ISP info etc before install as it is handy to have.

I tried Linux Mandrake 6.0 a while back and got nowhere. I tried reading the bible - 'Running Linux' but couldn't really take it in, so, I tried looking for help on the IRC chats that are so ranted about and got a whole load of a$$holes who didn't have the time of day for someone new, especially when they found out I was using Mandrake! Debian is all that lot ever talk about and are just too far up their own backsides to offer any help, so, I gave up, but kept an eye on Linux and tried Mandrake 7, 7.1 and 7.2 it was getting easier to use so when 8 came out I knew it was something to get hold of and I haven't been disappointed.

Mandrake seems to be the only Linux distro aiming at the desktop market and have an easy to use product. I have now ditched Wind-ohs from my PC and am doing the same tasks through Linux I used to do through Wind-ohs, without crashes, blue screens of death or those inarticulate little problems like a program deciding not to work properly when it worked fine the last time you used it!

Sorry if this seems like babbling, but, I am a newbie and what Linux has given to me is something Wind-ohs will never give you. Linux gives YOU your computer back. Linux gives YOU the freedom to fix any little niggles on your system because you have access to the code of the program ( not that I'm doing anything like that YET, but if there are any problems, at least I can attempt to fix it instead of waiting for MS or whoever to bring out a bug fix whenever they feel like it. ).

The other thing to remember about Linux is that it is constantly being developed, so if there is a bug, there may be a remedy for it within hours rather than months.

I know exactly how you feel, I was a bit lazy towards Linux at first, but once you start using it, you see how much fun it all is, sure some things can be frustrating, but when you solve a problem and then it works fine, the feeling is indescribable. Elation, euphoria are close to it. As a result, you get interested in Linux and want to learn the harder bits and that's what I'm doing now, taking my time and learning slowly, but thoroughly.

If it helps, according to one posting on Cnet's reviews of Mandrake 8, written by a veteran Windows programmer, disillusioned with the new XP registration process and it's taking control of your system, he tried Mandrake 8 and found it easier to use than XP.

Good luck with your choice and the install. Changing any OS is a trying time for a PC owner, and coming across stuck up idiots who's sole advice is RTFM (read the f&%$ing manual) isn't helpful at all.

Good luck Gadjo :rolleyes:

[Koert]

Originally posted by drmbb:
[QB]...If you are seriously interested, then there is an amazing abudance of information available - a simple Google search will turn up more information than you could read in a year, as would a visit to your local book store.
(wellQB]

I agree with you that you can find ridiculously much info on whatever problem you may have. But i'm a newbie, I want to learn, but I know NOTHING about linux (or computers in general). Quite frankly, man pages scare me, if i dare to read one (i keep trying to do that) i usually end up being more confused then i was before. I am convinced that all those how-to's man pages and whatever's give good sollutions for every problem one could possibly think of, but usually i don't have the faintest idea of what they are talking about.
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