Osama Bin laden tape

[mjsmithz]

perhaps u have heard a tape reportedly of osama bin laden was released today and it said that muslims should resist the war but he also said sadam should be ousted but by his own people peraps with help fromother muslims. why i bring this up is it sounds to me like osama aint a big fan of sadam and the link between al-qeida and iraq seems to clearly be a mere fabrication in light of these facts i wonder how much one can trust of the "evidence" provided to us.

which honestly annoys me cuase i was finally beginning to lie to myself that the war was necessary at some point though i had never been convinced that we should goto iraq before korea but thats a whole nother topic

[vbp6us]

Ya, ya...everything is al queda. Osam bin laden has been saying "stick together" since the beginning of his "campaign". Dont you remember?

[BigFatJoe]

hehe...funniest thing I heard on NPR lately. seems that UK and US intelligence came up with a report for the UN about the necessities of war, which was then found to be plagiarised (about 5 pages out of the 19) from a student paper, and that it used images that are 12 yrs old. Don't know the details, but I'm not even shocked at this kind of info. i would have expected it. :p

[mjsmithz]

uhh NPR is way more crediable then fox news

[oblio]

I think thayne was being funny. Unless alien autopsies and local ufo sightings are credible news in which fox DOES blow NPR out of the water on credibility.;)

[vbp6us]

Fox News

Not really. They are exactly the opposite of their slogan, "Fair and balanced news". BULL ****! Its so obvious what they are doing on that station. Making Islam and Muslims look bad. They are succeeding too. lol even the guys they interview or bring on are Jewish!! DAvid Goldstein, David berman...:rolleyes: Nothing wrong w/ Jews...as long as they're judgement is not altered by their religion.

Look around the screen....the little marquee has tons of stupid **** going across over and over again.

[haamu]

"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu, The Art Of War.

[jbstew32]

CNN is liberal, fox news is conservative...what else is new?

i bet the tape is a fake too btw

[guitargeek]

CNN is liberal, fox news is conservative...what else is new?

That's how I see it, and I fail to see how if they're both biased, how one station can be more valid than the other.

If you're a liberal, then you think that Fox News is scewing (sp?) the news more. If you're a conservative, then you think that CNN is putting more of a spin on it than Fox does. It's all relative.

[JjcampNR]

Originally posted by vbp6us
Not really. They are exactly the opposite of their slogan, "Fair and balanced news". BULL ****! Its so obvious what they are doing on that station. Making Islam and Muslims look bad. They are succeeding too. lol even the guys they interview or bring on are Jewish!! DAvid Goldstein, David berman... Nothing wrong w/ Jews...as long as they're judgement is not altered by their religion.


Yah, I mean I'd hate to see people of any other religion make decisions based on faith and their religion...:rolleyes:

Anyway, simply because someone has a name that sounds like it should fit into one religion, race, or nationality...it doesn't always mean that is the case. Also, I would fully expect professional (I know it's Fox, but they're at least semi-professional) journalists to make decisions based entirely on what the facts support, or at the very least what the majority view is. I would be shocked to find out that a national TV station would let someone go on their cameras and spit out their personal opinion on something. Usually when a reporter gives their personal opinion, they usually get fired or come back the next day with their tail between their legs and appologize for it on TV.


Josh

[vbp6us]

Originally posted by thayne
Now I have heard it all... Fox is making Islam and Muslims look bad???? No, Islam and Muslims are making themselves look bad, Fox just reports it...

But they project it as if its the HEADLINE at all times. ALL their stories are one sided and that is the Israeli side. EVERYTIME a Palestinian representative has been on he has been bashed unstoppably. Like a pack of wolves...

Btw...They are not informing their audience, the are trying to persuade the audience. There is a difference.

[JjcampNR]

Originally posted by vbp6us
But they project it as if its the HEADLINE at all times. ALL their stories are one sided and that is the Israeli side. EVERYTIME a Palestinian representative has been on he has been bashed unstoppably. Like a pack of wolves...

Well, I agree with thayne on this one. Usually the Palestinian rep. blows the argument for himself. But, on another note I can see how you may feel that he gets bashed a bit harder than the Israeli reps. do. A few things you need to keep in mind: Israel is a major ally of the United States, and they provide us with plenty of land in the middle east to put military bases on. Also, they haven't pissed off most of America in the last few years. I can't say I would blame anyone for putting a bit more pressure on the Palestinian side to prove their words with actions. How many times have we heard the Palestinians have agreed to a cease fire, and then the next week there are suicide bombings. In my opinion actions quite often speak louder than words.

[garskoci]

and think for a change!

"plagiarised (about 5 pages out of the 19) from a student paper, and that it used images that are 12 yrs old. Don't know the details, but I'm not even shocked at this kind of info. i would have expected it."

Yeah! They went to little Johnny's house down the street and.... "Hey Johnny, can we borrow your term paper?"

[vbp6us]

I didnt say one side got less time to put out their message then the other side. The guy your talking about does not "dance" around any questions. He answers to the best of his knowledge but the guys on Hannity and Colmes(sp?) keep battering him. They do it to anyone that isnt pro-Isreal. Thats a fact. This conversation isnt getting anywhere so just drop it. :)

I dont really like to participate in these threads or the ones ab0ut us going to war w/ iraq because we are not behind the scenes and dont know.

The media is slanted though...that is also a fact.

[vbp6us]

Palestinians have agreed to a cease fire, and then the next week there are suicide bombings.

ACTUALLY...Palestianians do comply w/ the ceasefires. What we dont see is the curfews even after ceasefires have been going on for months at a time. Does this mean the curfews are working? No. There have been bombings during curfews.

I remember a period(last year) about 6 months...NO BOMBINGS but the Israelis were still on Palestian land and bulldozing homes. This was during one of the longest Ceasefires ever. Bush made some comments about how he was happy w/ the Palestianian gov't for keeping the violence down...blah blah blah. You just cant take it after a while. You see that there is no difference between being good and bad, why the hell should you stop? I have a really good pic i'll post really soon. Its some Jews that know the Israeli gov't is doing wrong. Israel is full of these orthodox Jews. They, are the real Jews.

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/resimler/0002.jpg http://www.montco-pa.com/docs/news/observer/assets/images/protest_israel.jpg

Ive got more...these are Jews too.

[jbstew32]

Colmes is a liberal

[mjsmithz]

fox news headline on bin laden tape "fight like afghanistan" they took 2 sentences out of the speech and made that the main point
why would they do that ohh i dunno to portray islam as a bloddy violent religion maybe
unbiased info
O'reily Factor! that guy is so right wing its sick. wasnt he one of the ppl who agreed with rev falwel(yeah i dunno how to spell his name) that gays and americas sympathy to them is why 9/11 happened

[JjcampNR]

vbp6us
I remember a period(last year) about 6 months...NO BOMBINGS but the Israelis were still on Palestian land and bulldozing homes. This was during one of the longest Ceasefires ever.

And by Palestinian land, do you mean land that actually belongs to Palestine, land that was given back to them that belonged to Israel, or land they want but can't have and are crying about it?

Palestinians won't be happy until they have control over every important area in Israel. Honestly, I don't think Israel should have given back any land in the first place. How often do you see countries give back land that they won in a war (40 or 50years later I might add)? Especially when they were the ones that were attacked.

Ok, that probably sounds more *****y than I meant it to be, but I think my general idea was expressed.

Josh

[mjsmithz]

well the isreal/palestine area is tough to argue i mean u mentioned they should have given back land they had won in a war 40 years ago or whatnot but palestine was required to give land up for the isreali state after world war 2 after having it won it in a war long long ago its really a tough issue i jsut wish religions and different ethnicities could learn to get along

[JjcampNR]

mjsmithz
well the isreal/palestine area is tough to argue i mean u mentioned they should have given back land they had won in a war 40 years ago or whatnot but palestine was required to give land up for the isreali state after world war 2 after having it won it in a war long long ago its really a tough issue i jsut wish religions and different ethnicities could learn to get along


This is just another reason I am a firm beliver in organized religion being abolished from the planet. :p

Every war, every crusade, pretty much every argument between a group of people is because of religion. I say practice religion if you want, but get others involved in your practices. Religion is really a personal thing anyway...why must we go out and try to make others believe in the exact same things that we do? If I want to be religious, I want to be able to do exactly what I want, I don't want to have to mold my beliefs and morals around what the "leader" of the religion or the major "book" thinks is right and what is not right.

Josh

[BigFatJoe]

Originally posted by garskoci
and think for a change!

"plagiarised (about 5 pages out of the 19) from a student paper, and that it used images that are 12 yrs old. Don't know the details, but I'm not even shocked at this kind of info. i would have expected it."

Yeah! They went to little Johnny's house down the street and.... "Hey Johnny, can we borrow your term paper?"

I could care less who says what, since all politics is bull****. It just depends who you're listening to. NPR also reported spelling mistakes. I don't care how they got the paper, but if they are being charged with plagiarism from a student's report... that's not right, now is it? You would think that for a UN report they would atleast get the spelling down. From what i heard, the US is not specifically denying it (since they made the report), but instead are "looking into the plagiarism" and are mostly trying to blame UK intelligence.

Again, all unsupported...but then don't tell me some bs about FOX being a "valid" source. I would need some real proof. BTW, Europe is getting a lot more objective coverage on this war, but you would expect that since they're not trying to persuade their civilians to go fight for nothing. (this of course is another rant about the us civilians not playing an actual role in decision making anyway)

:edit:
i think I meant citizens, not civilians. ;)

[mjsmithz]

HE CALLS HIMSELF CONSERVATIVE of course hes against the death penalty most extremely religious biased people are i grew up listening to his filth and am glad to have gone to college where i dont ahve to listen to that crap

[mjsmithz]

NPR has reigional broadcasting as well as national **** perhaps your area is filled with liberal stuff where i grew up it was a conservative area and it was pretty conservative

[BigFatJoe]

...everyone's yelling at each other... conservative! liberal! ...

yet none of us really know what's going on behind the scenes, and most likely will never know. For one thing, one should know better than to take any news source too literally and without criticizing it.

I think the problem is that people get caught up in these flame wars, which take on similar forms in real life, and we miss the big picture.

religion does not start war. religion is one of many scapegoats for war. history may repeat itself, and if so, one should look at patterns.

for one thing, why is it that 50-100 years after some event/war, all this new information comes flooding in about the corruption/irrational judgements/etc.

I am most likely going to get flamed for all this, but you people need to sit down and think about all the stuff you're arguing about. You're making direct links between religion and nationhood, individual terrorism and general public, and so forth. Most importantly: how does this war affect you on a personal level? do you actually FEEL that one side is being wronged? how much do you know of isreal history? or are you maybe just reacting to the **** coming out of the tube.

i don't want to lecture, because I - and most of you - are not in such a position (ie. authoritive knowledge). I just ask that you think before you repeat the same opinions over and over that are swirling in your head. sleep on it or something. you'll see how irrational this war really is.

this is my last post in this thread.
good night.

[GaryJones32]

Yea like the US needs to be afraid of Iraq..........
A country at the height of it's military strength couldn't even defeat
post revolutionary Iran ..... I mean the Iranians executed their army officers for god's sake then Iraq with the backing of the US, Britian, and the oil producing nations of the middle east, couldn't defeat Iran after years of trying .. that's with US inteligence capabilities and chemical and biological weapons.....
So then the US totally destroyed them and they have no infastructure and not a pot to piss in after years of crushing sanctions where threy were denied basic crap like water purification equipment and writing paper.. now they are some danger ???????????
I mean any thinking individual would laugh out loud if you said that..
The US says they have evidence of "decades" (that's what powel said) of linking Iraq and Al-Queda---
Well Al-Queda has only existed a few years and before that both Osama and Saadam worked for the US CIA yes ?????????????
Even the notion that Al-Queda is dangerous is a joke...

The basic thing is this -- Iraq and Iran used to be under colonial rule... And the US and Britian are not about to let these oil rich places be independant of that colonial controll -- not now not ever...

all the rest of it is lies and crap.

[jbstew32]

arent conservatives usually for the death penalty?

[mocnicom]

FACT: The world is flat.
FACT: Elvis was an alien.

Just because you say "FACT" doesn't make it so. That is pure arrogance. Some of your points may be valid, but I hardly consider you to have some golden touch that makes all your words become reality.

[mocnicom]

A wee bit defensive are we? ;) I was not even disputing your information, just pointing out the arogance of your little FACT FRENZY there.

[vbp6us]

thayne...Why is it that you have to attack and question EVERY single person about them going to college or not when you dont agree w/ them???

Is that your tactic to degrade them? You make them feel bad if they didnt and then send BS "FACTS" at them? I think YOU need to reevaluate your "facts" or what you call facts and then come back. You have no arguement and your putting words into peoples mouth.

I'm just frustrated with all these people writing stuff that clearly is not true and that they know nothing about.

What makes us believe your telling the truth?

Iraq is in violation of *ALL* UN Resolutions that they agreed to during the cease fire negotiations over the last 12 years

Heres another FACT for you...Isreal is too in violation of UN RESOLUTION 1402. Israel has now ignored 64 UN resolutions.

[vbp6us]

Typical answer when the facts are brought up. :rolleyes: If you dont care about the UN or dont repect them why bring this to the table: "Iraq is in violation of *ALL* UN Resolutions that they agreed to during the cease fire negotiations over the last 12 years"

Whatever...im not here to argue and neither are you. Were Linux users w/ a common enemy. :) MS!!! lol..nice talking to you thayne.

bye. ;)

[mocnicom]

I wonder if Iraq uses windows OS'es?