Help me figure this out....

[williamwbishop]

Okay, so I've this book, IVANHOE, undated. Inside I find a folded up letter, dated 1866. It is postmarked Germany, has two postage stamps(ein silb), that date between 1861-1867 so it all fits together. It is from a military man(possibly U.S. also) in wilsnack to another Soldier (I presume the owner of the book). I can read german, but this is old script german, and very faint, so I have no clue. Anyone think they can help transcribe this document. The best I can do is maybe 15% of the text reading. I will of course scan it in decent detail for anyone that is willing to give it a go. Nifty note though, has wax seal, mostly intact, and is folded the old fashion way(6th's). I think the units are the 24/12 sending. It has U.S overstamp so I am guessing it made it's way to somewhere here in the U.S., looks like the 25th infantry(I think this was a later sent date though). Of course it was not germany then, but preussia. Anyway, something to pass the time, actually looks like some coordinates on it.

[williamwbishop]

no one?

[truls]

You could try alt.languages.german, seems there is not much traffic there anyways - so I'm sure they will be delighted for the challenge.

T.
ich bin, du bist

[williamwbishop]

danke, I'll give it a shot.

[Dun'kalis]

I could try...I don't know if I could read the text, though.

[windoze killa]

What do you actually want to figure out?

[Riley]

I can help. I'm pretty close to fluent and have a huge dictionary for the words I don't know

[emus]

I'll give it a try. As long as I can read the handwriting, I think I could help.

[williamwbishop]

EXCELLENT! I will send you each a scanned picture of the page in the morning. Actually, I read german just fine, and speak it adequately, I hate to harpoon any of you, but it is script, prussian, turn of 1860's. It will not look much like what you are expecting. It's one thing to be decent in german, another to BE german or to read cursive script that is 140 years old. Nevertheless, I want everyone to try....so it will be coming soon. The reason? It was my great, great grandfathers.

[williamwbishop]

Ah, got around to scanning the letter, any takers?

[Dun'kalis]

OH. MY. GOD.

I was expecting something like the German script I've read from the 1920s...OH MY GOD....

You're insane!

:eek:

I'm still gonna try, but I don't actually think its possible to even get the words out of that. If I could get that, the rest would be sehr einfach.

But, alas...

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by Dun'kalis
OH. MY. GOD.

I was expecting something like the German script I've read from the 1920s...OH MY GOD....

You're insane!

:eek:

I'm still gonna try, but I don't actually think its possible to even get the words out of that. If I could get that, the rest would be sehr einfach.

But, alas...

You thought I was maybe kidding? I did say prussian, 1866. I specifically said it would be a lot different than one would expect. I'm just curious to find out how my grandfather came by it.

[williamwbishop]

front side....;)

[emetib]

the book was your great, great grandfather's or the signer of the letter? from the slant of the text i would say the person was left handed. i don't read prussian, russian, or german, but i can make out the writing if that helps you.

i just thought of something. let me give a friend a call, see is fluent in russian, so with her help we might be able to get this sovled.

edit: clean out your pm box.

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by emetib
the book was your great, great grandfather's or the signer of the letter? from the slant of the text i would say the person was left handed. i don't read prussian, russian, or german, but i can make out the writing if that helps you.

i just thought of something. let me give a friend a call, see is fluent in russian, so with her help we might be able to get this sovled.

Prussia, or actually preussia was germany. It was written during the war. The book has nothing to do with the letter, I've finally tracked the book to 1902. The address on the front is actually by a military post master, as was habit back then as the soldiers themselves couldn't write for crap.

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by emetib
the book was your great, great grandfather's or the signer of the letter? from the slant of the text i would say the person was left handed. i don't read prussian, russian, or german, but i can make out the writing if that helps you.

i just thought of something. let me give a friend a call, see is fluent in russian, so with her help we might be able to get this sovled.

edit: clean out your pm box.

done....

[emetib]

ok, i'll pass it on. who knows maybe she'll get it figured out. she does deal with some russians that come over for business, they might be able to help also.

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by emetib
ok, i'll pass it on. who knows maybe she'll get it figured out. she does deal with some russians that come over for business, they might be able to help also.

hint*german*hint.

[emus]

Sorry to disappoint you williambishop,

I could only make out a few words. I'll give it another try tomorrow.

[emus]

and the letter

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by emus
Sorry to disappoint you williambishop,

I could only make out a few words. I'll give it another try tomorrow.

Front's not an issue,

Wilsmack 24/12
from A. Lealet
to the 25/12 unit.

[williamwbishop]

Told you guys it was a pill.;)

[williamwbishop]

Bump. I just know someone is going to run accross this one and understand it clearly.;)

[jgr220]

I dont know if this will help but If clarity of the words is a problem why not send image to the gimp and enhance the words like trace it with hte ink tool or something

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by jgr220
I dont know if this will help but If clarity of the words is a problem why not send image to the gimp and enhance the words like trace it with hte ink tool or something

You want to know what sad is? Sad is that IS high contrasted. The paper as it looks in reality, is almost brown, the script is in fountain pen and so faint as to be almost impossible to read. It is actually VERY readable now, but you have to realize that the problem we are having is that it is in an old form of german, handwritten, by a soldier in 1866. Typically, I wouldnt' bother, I have tons of old stuff, but the letter is so short, between two soldiers during war, and there must have been a reason it was later sent into the U.S. system after it had already been sent between the two people who owned it. It is just a curiosity.

[Dun'kalis]

Maybe this will help...

http://www.mun.ca/rels/morav/pics/tutor/mscript2.html

[emetib]

Originally posted by williamwbishop
hint*german*hint.

actually my linguist says it might be polish or autrian. she will be giving it a try.

[bs_texas]

I understand about the book not being the thing, but maybe someone here could help or point you to someone who can:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/books.html

regards....

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by bs_2003
I understand about the book not being the thing, but maybe someone here could help or point you to someone who can:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/series/appraisers/books.html

regards....


If it isn't to be found here..http://books.interdart.co.uk/books/d_bases.html
then it hasn't been written.
;)

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by emetib
actually my linguist says it might be polish or autrian. she will be giving it a try.

You have to realize at the time, that preussia, encompassed a lot of the areas you are speaking of. It was once a very large area.

[emetib]

i know that. the more people that we can get working on this though, the faster you will find out what grt grt grndad said.

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by emetib
i know that. the more people that we can get working on this though, the faster you will find out what grt grt grndad said.

Of course.;) But it is going to be hard to identify, so many of the languages weren't separate back then. Most of the languages we wouldn't even recognize if spoken now they have changed so much.

[timbobagginsii]

I'll be sending a copy to my mum if tha's alright, she did history of languages at university. See if she can remember anything about it.

[emetib]

well let's see what she comes up with for us. she works for an international import company, so there's lots of different languages that she will be able to pick the brains of.