For those about to quit...

[Tuxxer]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
CluelUX, I'm the same way, but unfortunately, it's difficult to find that critical shred of information that will make it easier. To this day, I have not configured my serial modem yet, so it looks like you're doing great. Keep at it people.


And don't forget to follow your own advice and keep at it. Think of it as a jig saw puzzle with finding the straight edges first , as soon as you do that , the big picture becomes clearer.

Tux

[rosst]

I believe linux is the perfect choice for those who want to know what is really going on under the covers of the OS. It takes considerably more investment to reach the level of "expert" but it is well worth it. It can also change your life.

When I worked in an internet lab at intel my co-worker insisted he could only do windows. He said "I'm a GUI guy". During the 11 months we worked together I taught him linux since it was part of our job. By the time our jobs ended he said it was easier to do things with linux than windows. To top it off he landed a job as the "network guru", (for more money), for a government agency and handles all of their unix, windows, and network problems. He has confessed that if I hadn't "corrupted him" with linux and all of the network things we did, he wouldn't be able to do the job he enjoys today.:p

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by Tuxxer
And don't forget to follow your own advice and keep at it. Think of it as a jig saw puzzle with finding the straight edges first , as soon as you do that , the big picture becomes clearer.

Tux

Hehehe, it's been 4 years now. My Lucent linmodem in my laptop works nicely now, and windows doesn't go online anymore.;)

[DMR]

:confused:

When did this thread escape from /dev/random??

;)

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by DMR
:confused:

When did this thread escape from /dev/random??

;)

It never did David...

Some threads I just leave alone as sometimes they are beneficial for those that are new to Linux.

I haven't reviewed this particular thread for a while to see if it should now be moved elsewhere. Have a look through and let me know what you think.

Part of the day to day decisions of the JL moderators.

It does crop up once every couple of days, BUT if I felt it was taking the focus away from the questions being posted in this forum, I certainly would move the entire thread to /dev/random.

Make sense?

[sasKuatch]

:confused: WTF:confused: (at DMR, that is)

[gmajane]

Originally posted by DMR


When did this thread escape from /dev/random??

......................................
I am fairly new at these things (all the groups I have belonged to before were email groups)so maybe I am the one who is mixed up, but when I started reading this thread, it was titled "for those about to give up" or something similiar to this. It has been quite helpful to me.

Jane/gmajane

[DeathByGerbil]

im about ready to quit again


this is what i wanted out of linux

the ability to ....

surf the web - this works
watch the web flash and media mpegs - this doesnt work
check my email - this sorta works, i can use the web based versions and havent had time to figure out the kmail thingy...it frieghtened me off and havent really tinkered with it yet
ability to play some games through linux - hhahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaha
nvidia drivers setup can kiss my ***
use my usb flash memory stick - ha, that goes in the mount nightmare files
listen to my mp3's - too much stuff to download to get it working :rolleyes:
i want to be able to get my windows files from other HDrive - no help on this one here, tried all the fstab crap with no luck. ask a question and get a cryptic answer saying "rtfm you idiot" :rolleyes:


i dont want much, im not going to design programs but to rather enjoy myself and learn somthing along the way.

ive quit and come back before, looks like ill do that again. MS longhorn here i come :) when i get tired of it i might pick up linux after a while to see if its got what i wanted.

as much as i wanted to learn this new os i cant but help be frustrated by it

god help me ive tried
http://12.246.46.144/deathbygerbil/linux/phucklinux.jpg
rtfm these idiots

so in closing i would like to ask. why is this so difficult for you "natural geeks" to understand? im trying but i need help understanding why i should keep trying? i know ill fail and have to restart my install a few more times. hell ive installed linux about 30 times now in my life with none of them up to what i wanted.

again.... why should i keep trying...?

do you understand how friggin pissed off i get when i try to install a rpm and it wont load cause i need all these other packages which require all these other packages which require all these other.....i hope you get the picture ;)

i would love to learn this :) but i need a friggin bone thrown my way every once in a while goddamnit :mad:






closing statement ....

im just pissed and venting, i dont hate anybody and im ranting ...

anybody got a clue why i like this punishment ?
i dont like S&M stuff either :eek:

thanks :)

[gmajane]

While my feelings are not nearly as negative as the last poster, I agree with many of his points. I am running Mandrake as my primary OS, but fear I will never be able to get rid of my second OS(Win2000). I do not know the Linux language, but I am learning as I go. I use my husband's book of Linux commands as needed.

It IS frustrating that in Windows a computer literate non-Geek can find step by step instructions on how to do things and in Linux I feel like I am being thrown clues and don;t necessarily have the skill to use them. The learning curve is pretty steep here.

My husband, who was typing away on his Konsole just this morning, says that it is because MS has so much money behind it that there is more help available. I also think it is because there are more people running it so there are more people out there with help sites.

I for one am not giving up and I want to learn it myself, not have my husband figure it out for me.

Hang in there.
Jane:)

[Tuxxer]

Originally posted by DeathByGerbil
im about ready to quit again




so in closing i would like to ask. why is this so difficult for you "natural geeks" to understand? im trying but i need help understanding why i should keep trying? i know ill fail and have to restart my install a few more times. hell ive installed linux about 30 times now in my life with none of them up to what i wanted.

again.... why should i keep trying...?






closing statement ....

im just pissed and venting, i dont hate anybody and im ranting ...

anybody got a clue why i like this punishment ?
i dont like S&M stuff either :eek:

thanks :)

At about this point in time , someone should have advised you to put your linux distro back in the box or on the Cd shelf ,and use windows as your primary OS.

My own personal view is that linux is in a state of transition from command line distro , to a more windows like ability to install stuff , do stuff and such.

However it will not be free , which is one of the big nice things about linux. Companies want to make money ,and thats what it takes to get windows level of user ability.

I like mandrake , but I am not even gonna think its anymore than a linux distro with big training wheels, say compared to slack or gentoo.

Your frustration level is high enough right now ,that you are working against yourself,and nothing that is suggested will probably make a short term impact.

If you have more than one hard drive handy , what I would suggest is that you install windows on one ,and mandy or redhat or suse on the other ,and just swap out the disks when you want to try linux again.

In conclusion , I would suggest that you look at your computing needs and give serious thought to what media will help you , rather than hinder.

An O/S is a tool ,not the end all be all ,and I would rather someone stick with windows , than to be turnned off a linux distro (for others reading this).

Tuxxer

[Tuxxer]

I thought I would just give some thoughts on using linux ,rather than installing linux.

Probably like a number of people I came to linux from a dos background. The first computing experince that I had other than at school, was with a 286 running dos programs.

We had to get freind of the family to come by ,and show us the magic of EXE/COM/BAT for how to actually run programs.

From there it was windows all the way , from 3.1 up to ME for me personally. At that time , new things were coming online that required specialized knowledge (for us anyways :)) about how to set up this gaget called a modem, this led me into the magic of BBS's , in the time before the commercial expansion of the internet.

Along the way , I picked up esoteric knowledge of how to edit and modify my dos path , install programs on the dos command line , figure out this thingie called pkzip.Due to the lack of diverse hardware and vendors , it behooved people to actually do things for themselves and then pass on their knowledge to others , or to make their software available to the general public , via freeware or shareware.

Soon the suits and the gnomes in accounting had an epiphany and decided money could be made ,and there by the grace we went ,and windows 95 appeared.

Microsoft spoke , where do you want to go today. Programs by the thousands appeared , processes were streamlined and made automatic.

Anyone could go to download.com and find some sort of cool or noveltyware (bonzai buddy) and install it with in the space of minutes. Pkzip transitioned into winzip ,a program that would unzip a compressed program and install it into the directory of your choice.

And so , because of nothing really better out there , windows became the o/s of the masses. Was it better , no , not really. We had apple , some funny finnish guy doing his own thing, unix , and so many others.

But here you are , for some reason , you decided that you would try something else , what ever the reason , more customizeable , better security , plain dislike of MS. Pick one , it may apply to you.

Will linux get better , yes eventually. But here and now its still in the pioneering stage where people are learning how to do things for themselves. For all the questions that I have personally asked , none of the ansewers have been very helpful.

What has been helpful , is the one or two initial successes that have made the lightbulb go off , AAHHHHHH, thats how its done ,rather than the 20 previous installs. I pride myself on knowing that I had my very first successful screw up ,not too long ago.

Doing somthing to my config , ooops , X would not boot into the GUI and now i gotta figure out how to use EMACS or VIM. But i did ,and a problem that could have been solved in matter of seconds on KATE or Kedit , took over two hours and reading too many documents that really just added to the frustration level`.

My final thoughts are that linux is not very intuitive for a novice and people running dual boot should not look to that day when they can exorsize MSwindows from the hard drive.

Learn your limitations and spread your expirmenting over a course of time that uses time as your ally rather than being dumped into a pool and having to learn how to swim.

Linux may not be for you at this particular time.

Tuxxer

[ryo]

I've used Linux for over a year now and I'm considering going back to Windows because I don't know anyone that'll help me, and I always need help :(
No-one can ever help in chatrooms or mailing lists etc, woe ie me :p
But yeah I'm just fed up of having problems and spending hours trying to solve them and never succeeding :(

[sasKuatch]

To reiterate my point, "THE HARDWARE DID IT!!!!!".

That aside, I have one, ONE linux book that I haven't even read completely, and I have no problems with linux, so it MUST be the hardware.

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by ryo
I've used Linux for over a year now and I'm considering going back to Windows because I don't know anyone that'll help me, and I always need help :(
No-one can ever help in chatrooms or mailing lists etc, woe ie me :p
But yeah I'm just fed up of having problems and spending hours trying to solve them and never succeeding :(

Don't spend hours on them. Try until you get fed up, and go do something else. The longer you bang your head against a rock, the more you will come to dislike it.

[sasKuatch]

One thing I can help out with Gerbil.

/dev/hda5 / ext3 noatime 1 1
none /dev/pts devpts mode=0620 0 0
none /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0
/dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom auto user,iocharset=iso8859-1,umask=0,exec,codepage=850,ro,noauto
0 0
/dev/hda1 /mnt/c vfat iocharset=iso8859-1,umask=0,codepage=850 0 0
/dev/hda6 /mnt/storage vfat iocharset=iso8859-1,umask=0,codepage=850 0 0
/dev/hda7 /mnt/apps vfat iocharset=iso8859-1,umask=0,codepage=850 0 0
none /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/hda8 swap swap defaults 0 0

Just one more thing and I'm outa here. I don't know where you people are getting this "gotta switch NOW" mentality. Take it easy, nobody's holding a gun to your back. Learn a few things, read some posts, try some things and have fun. If you try to move all your important stuff over and force it, you will only regret trying Linux. Use it for fun, and when you are ready to switch, it will be out of enjoyment. You will be glad to use nothing but Linux. If you try to migrate from Windows prematurely, you'll only get burnt in the process and end up hating Linux for trashing your kids' photos or work stuff. Take it easy, keep windows around (if you have XP, use fat32, don't move to ntfs) as a safety net, and have fun.

Good luck! And take breaks sooner and shorter. No good waiting until you want to shoot Linus and strangle the penguin, and then take 6 year off, because you'll be back at square 0. Back off as soon as you feel overwhelmed, and come back as soon as you feel better so you don't forget too much.

And try to have fun.

[knownothingbozo]

!

[knownothingbozo]

?

[Snapafun]

For someone who has been cruising these forums all day using windows to solve a linux problem this posting has been indeed a great encouraging find.

Thanks folks.

Just a shame that we newbies don't simply get little problems to solve and build our knowledge for the unexpected big ones without getting those big ones until then.

But this is linux and it is new to many. We need to stick to learning this stuff so that the next generation of linux users get to understand things sooner.

This thread ought to be locked in place and turn up in any searching done on this forum. It allowed me to take a breath and start again.

Time for a coffee me thinks.

Regards

Frank.

[rosst]

Linux is getting better with almost every release, (I consider red hat 8.0 as an exception, so much was broken I pulled it and went back to 7.3). System administration is gradually getting easier and more automated. I consider linux to be roughly equivilant to windows 3.1. A plain, generic install normally works fine. On the other hand, if you want to do something unusual, you need deep knowledge of the tools.

Even this will get better. My main problem is the rate of changes. I buy books to do administration and find to my dismay that many of the procedures in the books no longer work. This is a bigger problem than most developers realize. I do support for desktops and networks. People in support rarely have time to dig up and re-learn the latest tools and procedures. We are normally under the gun and need answers as soon as possible. For this environment, linux is still marginal.

When we graduate to the point where solid, step by step solutions are published, available, and most important, applicable to all major support issues of current builds then linux will be much more successful in the environments windows florishes in now. We will get there. Just don't expect the average support person to be enthused about the current environment. They don't have the time.

[DMR]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
:confused: WTF:confused: (at DMR, that is) Read the bulk of the responses in this thread, especially lately. It just seemed to me that the thread is becoming more conversational than anything else, which makes it more suitable for /dev/random.

I'm certainly not saying that it's become a rant or anything like that, it's only that the thread isn't addressing a particular technical problem or question, which is more what the Technical forum is all about.

I made my comment simply as an observation to the moderators, at a time before I myself was made a moderator. I didn't urge that it be moved to /dev/random then, nor will I move it now (even though I could). I respect mdwatts' judgement, and after reading his explanation, I fully agree with his reasoning as to why he left this thread in Technical.

I hope that clears thing up...

:)

[sasKuatch]

I just din't know why, that's all.

*pats Dave on back*

Seriously though, I just wanted to share my experiences, and it turned into an encouragement thread, which isn't bad either.

[DMR]

Far from a bad thing- encouragement is a Good Thing...

:)

[craiggiles]

Windows, what have the things i look thru every day got to do with my linux pc???
:D
Keep on in there, i've only been using linux since last week!!!!!
and i already love its stability, but watch out for your modems you might have to bin a few!!!!
Linux forever!!!!!

Year 2010, who the hell is bill gates??????
and what the hell is windows!!:p

[hkctr]

It has been 3 months since I posted to this thread and much has changed. I still use linux and while I have not mastered it, I am able to configure almost any distro available to suit my needs. I still have my trusty MDK9 and RH8 partitions to fall back on but also have Slack, Gentoo and Debian Sid on three other partitions. I have learned something from all these distros. Sure, I still have Win98, 2000 and XP on 3 other partitions and still use them to do things that linux can't (dailpad and msmoney). Most of my daily PC interaction is with linux and Debian is what I use most.

To those about to quit, please try another distro. There is probably one out there that will recognize your hardware or is easier for you to configure than others. Try Knoppix, Yoper, Suse, Ark, JAMD, Libranet, etc. Booting with Knoppix will generally tell you if your hardware is compatible with linux. I learned something from all the distros I have tried (all 15 or so). None are perfect but one should be good enough to meet most of your needs without you pulling your hair out.

[oceanorange]

ooh, thanks for the motivation!!! just started with Linux once again, and this time for good. learning it has been my new adventure for the past few weeks, I'm loving it!!!:D

[hathor1]

Sure, I still have Win98, 2000 and XP on 3 other partitions and still use them to do things that linux can't (dailpad and msmoney).

I own three businesses, and I too was using MS Money extensively. This weekend, I finally transferred all of the info from MS Money to GNU CASH, so now my books are in the same partition where I do most of my work.

Actually, if you read the online documentation, I think that you'll find that GNU CASH is a far deeper program, and works close enough like Money that there's little learning curve, especially if you use the online documentation. Importing from Money was a snap. You'll especially like the way you can edit the "Accounts" which in Money are called "categories".

[sasKuatch]

I looked at gnucash, but I had to give up soon, as I have no need for financial programs, nor any knowledge of them. Glad to hear it's good. I'll have to start recommending it to people.

Rob.

[kq9j]

I gave up on Linux one time about four years ago. My old compaq did not like any of the distros I tried on it...and it was my only computer. So, for a time I was back to the Windows world, I think it was 95.

Then I decided to build a faster machine and made sure my hardware was linux compatible. Started out again with Redhat 6.2 and never went back. Today, I use Mandrake 9 and everything autodetects and works fine...even my usb photo printer and usb camera.

I am not an expert by any means, but I can do things by command line when necessary and have learned a LOT.

In fact, I am to the point where everything is working so well I am bored with it.

Time to throw together another box and try something new. At one time, I needed the windows box to fall back on while I was experimenting with Linux. Now, I know I can count on the Linux system, so I can try something else again.

This stuff is fun, isn't it??

[finalfiler]

I'm NOT gonna quit! The frustration of LINUX is only exceeded by the infuriatingly terse, cryptic and obfuscted documentation, which is nevertheless positively user friendly when compared to the intolerant geeks whose only response to my past pleas for help has been to shoot me down in flames. :mad:

I'm determined to get the better of all of that and them! :D


But I'm having fun.;)

[sasKuatch]

Man, I just don't get it. Everybody complains about the documentation: lack of it, lack of quality, lack of ... What the heck? It's not that bad. Obviously, if it takes your hand and walks you through the easiest setup possible, it's not going to be the best. It's expected that once you know options, settings, etc, you will then, create your own setup with those in mind. The purpose of documentation is not to walk you through it, but rather to teach you about it and enable you to do it.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Am I missing something?

[fancypiper]

Where can you find Windows help? http://www.icalledit.com/forums/images/smilies/headscratch.gifWhat brought me to Linux was searching for something I was having trouble with and finding all this Linux documentation. I thought, "If I can find all this info about it, why not try it?"
http://www.icalledit.com/forums/images/smilies/yltype.gif

http://naomisfancy.virtualave.net/images/linuxreg.jpg

[sasKuatch]

Google directory of Operating Systems:

Linux: 3,282 pages
Windows: 693 pages

Notice that Windows is far from close to Linux in page numbers. There are many others between.

[finalfiler]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
Man, I just don't get it. Everybody complains about the documentation: lack of it, lack of quality, lack of ..
Am I missing something?

The following are my observations, based on my own past experience and watching others as they try to do something with LINUX but nearly always give up:

To be serious for a moment, it is as you hint, a subjective issue. But IMO the approach for LINUX & LINUX applications documentation is not as intuitive & readable as it is for Windows. For example, I installed a mySQL server on a windoze NT box. Right at the top of the readme, immediately after the installation instructions, is a one line instruction to start the service.

Conversely, on LINUX I had to sift through pages of HTML to find out how to start the service. The mysql.server references was trapped inside a whole lot of other stuff. I have to ask, why not a simple instruction under an obvious heading?

Another example, check out the instructions to Openoffice.org - the windows setup and run instruction is a single paragraph. The LINUX instructions are significantly longer with a final warning not to panick if it doesn't work ;)

Finally, it seems to me that most linux 'instructions' are actually opinion pieces - there always seems to be a preamble about what a great OS LINUX is, what it can do for the user, and then sets about losing the reader in jargon.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I suspect as the Linux Desktop looms ever closer the documentation will undoubtedly become more readable.

PS - to give credit where it is due, full marks to Mandrake for its "Installation and User Guide" - if it wasn't for it I'd probably not be using Linux.


All the best

[jegs2]

I'm having more luck with my Timex Sinclair 2068 than I am getting my Linux'ed Sony Vaio F430 on-line. I've already tried all the limited tricks I know:

Upon typing, "su
/sbin/ifconfig eth0 up
/sbin/ifconfig " I get the following:

eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:48:54:30:AE:DE
inet6 addr: fe80::248:54ff:fe30:aede/10 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:3 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:100
RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:218 (218.0 b)
Interrupt:3 Base address:0x300

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:30 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:30 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:1956 (1.9 kb) TX bytes:1956 (1.9 Kb)

A cohort told me, "You can also do the /sbin/ifconfig thing to see if you get an IP address then.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and can you show us the contents of /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 ?", at which time I followed his instructions and came up with the following:


No such file or directory

Followed his further directions and replied as follows:

/etc/sysconfig/network/scripts>

No ifcfg-eth0 directory, but have "ifdown-*", "ifstatus-dsl" and the like.

ps- The smiley face was not put there by me... (should instead read, "A E : D E" -- without the spaces in-between)

[chrism01]

Looking at your output, it seems eth0 is trying to run ipv6 (inet6); most people are using ipv4. Are you sure you mean that.?
Also, ifcfg-eth0 is a file, not a dir, so you want to cat it to get the contents.

[jegs2]

Originally posted by chrism01
Looking at your output, it seems eth0 is trying to run ipv6 (inet6); most people are using ipv4. Are you sure you mean that.?
Also, ifcfg-eth0 is a file, not a dir, so you want to cat it to get the contents.
Sorry Chris, I'm one of those fellows who used YaST to install my system, not being versed in Linux'ese, so unfortunately, "ipv6" makes no sense to me.

But I am willing to learn and have been reading articles about Linux in my spare time...

If it helps, my notebook has a LAN card that I plug into a DSL line (static address). Used the YaST DSL tool, but as you can see, that didn't answer the mail. Oh, and does "cat" mean catalog as in ancient Apple/Timex Sinclair BASIC?

[sk8formaple]

OMG i needed this thread. I'm having soo much trouble with Mandrake 9.1. Soo i feel alittle better now after reading this. Thank you

[kedman]

:)
HI I got into Linux a year ago and installed it on another disk with win2k.
Then you have access to the net if linux wount play.
Now I rareley use win2k ( Dreamweaver only, and now found bluefish ,bye bye d/weaver)
The thing is I have now set up a complete network with firewall and network printers I would never have done this in windoze!
I'm on Redhat at the mo and just got BT broadband working in Linux ( failed on the usb in win2k)
Had to use a Zoom modem and return the BT usb one.
So keep going, you'll look back in a year and be amazed at how much you have learnt.
Good luck all!

[DMR]

Originally posted by jegs2
Oh, and does "cat" mean catalog as in ancient Apple/Timex Sinclair BASIC? cat is short for "concantentate", actually.

:)

[sasKuatch]

But then why does cat output to display? What does it concatenate with what?

[vrek]

Originally posted by DMR
cat is short for "concantentate", actually.

:)

and that means????
gdict can't even find a definition for it!!!

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by vrek
and that means????
gdict can't even find a definition for it!!!

Well, from programming in Python, I know it means to stick two things together, but what exactly do it stick together in this case?:confused:

[justy]

by mackstar
Well thanks for the encouragement. So far it's been an uphill battle every single second of the way. Seemingly every time I fix one problem, two more arise to take its place. It's insane. It's become my personal obession to get the thing working.

A constructivist theorem says "Every solution of a problem causes new problem". So, that's the way life goes i'd say. There will in no way be a state where each problem is solved and there is no new one.

[JCool451]

This thread is still going on? I remember when this from before I became a member. I would have thought that this thread would have been locked long ago.

[DMR]

Originally posted by vrek
and that means????
gdict can't even find a definition for it!!! gdict?! Since when has that replaced Webster's?
:p

Sorry, that was actually a "finger foul"; my typing isn't all that great. It should be concatenate, meaning "to connect in series".

The "connect in series" part comes from the fact that cat sequentially prints the contents of a file or files to standard output (your screen). When used with just a single filename, the result is the same as using the pager commands "more" or "less". However, cat is often used (in conjunction with the redirect symbol ">") to string together the contents of multiple files and print those contents to one big file. As an illustration:[root@penguinbox testbed]# echo 1 >cat1
[root@penguinbox testbed]# echo 2 >cat2
[root@penguinbox testbed]# echo 3 >cat3
[root@penguinbox testbed]# cat cat1 cat2 cat3 >catfile
[root@penguinbox testbed]# more catfile
1
2
3
[root@penguinbox testbed]#

[sasKuatch]

Awe, that was beautiful:) *sigh* I love Linux

[DMR]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
Awe, that was beautiful:) *sigh* I love Linux Yeah, I know. Try doing what that simple illustration accomplished using Windows- bet you can't do it in less than 500 mouse-clicks.

:D

[vrek]

Originally posted by DMR
gdict?! Since when has that replaced Webster's?
:p

[/CODE]
Its replaced webster's since I can do it in 3 seconds instead of 5 minutes and it searches websters online server! So remind me again whats the advantage of webster's??

[n5ryh]

Got gateway going, this that and forth
started samba then saw ssh then saw so, and soso
sure wish I got that zinux disk advertized when
I was workin on the 8086 but no
THE CUMPUTER came with somthing els and I
strugled with HDM (for those who remeber)
B4 internet
I wont catch up, I am new , But Ilike Much
Mike

[guvna]

G'day all.
I don't know if this is the place to ask this, but I couldn't seem to find a more appropriate spot. I'm a newbie using Mandrake 9 on a Compaq notebook and loving it. I occasionally use the other OS to play games, but I'm going to try Wine soon to see if I can even do away with that... Anyway, my question is this; I've installed an RPM and it told me I needed another one, which I then installed. Now I'm told that I need to perform a "mkdir" in the sword directory, but the trouble is that I can't find the directory, even though it's installed properly. I tried "find" and "locate" but get told that there's no such file or dir. Any ideas to help please?

[kedman]

Originally posted by guvna
G'day all.
Now I'm told that I need to perform a "mkdir" in the sword directory, but the trouble is that I can't find the directory, even though it's installed properly. I tried "find" and "locate" but get told that there's no such file or dir. Any ideas to help please?

Seems you need to 'make a new directory' as in mkdir, inside the ' sword' dir and cant find sword.
Try this:
find / -name 'sword*' -print 2>/dev/null

Note the * after sword this will pull up anything on
your system with the word sword.
CD into it then run mkdir name
and you should be ok
Cheers
Kedman

[chrism01]

BTW, re prev 'cat' qn
to concatenate file1 and file2 try
cp file2 >> file1
'>>' means append, '>' will overwrite
Cat is more catalog ie list contents...

[DMR]

Originally posted by vrek
Its replaced webster's since I can do it in 3 seconds instead of 5 minutes and it searches websters online server! So remind me again whats the advantage of webster's??

joking -v 1. To tell or play jokes. 2. To speak in fun; be facetious.

:rolleyes:

[The Bad Penny]

Linux is a bad influence!

Well to me anyway I keep on thinking what will happen if I try this,,,
Granted 9 times out of 10 the answer is "awww sh*t" or "oooops"

I have been trying to get my head round linux since I bought mandrake 6.5, I then tried 7, 7.1, 8, 8.1 and finally got it with 9

I would try the install and config and it go tits up for some reason or other, so I would sack it for a while and then try again

I now know that there was nothing wrong with Linux then, it was me, I wasnt ready for it at that time.

Now Im running a Mandy 9 dual boot with xp & win98 (yes im a tamperer)
on a HP pavilion zt1151 notebook & the only thing that doesn't work is the modem
(ESS winmodem)
To sort this out for web browsing I installed Mandy 9 on an old Dell P2 333mhz 512mb ram 3gb hdd that was lying in the loft and then set up ICS and now Im saving up for a pair of WIFI Nic's, I was gonna cable the house with cat5 but the wife said that the only way there would cables runnning everywhere would be over her dead body.
(OK I admit it I was tempted,, c'mon guys you know what they say about a quiet life)

I can say that in my learning curve I have found that the readme's, NHF's and even peoples sites have been both helpfull and confusing because where there are directions and you are told to configure it using XXXX but not where to find the file.

e.g. One of the probs I had a while ago was the mapping of my dos partition so that I could mount it, I found the commands to enter in the fstab BUT not where to find fstab itself,, (I know where it is now)
this kind of small oversite can make it very difficult for a noob and even cause them to give up entirely.

I can relate to the RTFM's & the STFW comments too,, the guys who help must get cheesed off answering the same questions over and over again, when the answers are freely available in google/linux or the forum.
BUT what if you dont know the name of the function what you should be searching for?
(eg above "mounting dos partition")

I have been using windows since 3.11 wfwg and actually had more fun using wfwg than 95,98,me,nt4,2k & xp put together,

Until now!
I have had more fun and misery using Linux in the last 2 months than I have had in years.

Linux is a bad influence!
So let it lead you on to new adventures of mind and machine,

I have and I dont regret it one bit!

[paulindevon]

Being a complete n00b to linux and to computers in general I found the thread interesting. Linux is very good although a little difficult for myself. I am not used to command lines and the like, My first computer came with windows 98se and my second computer I built myself. I once installed windows 3.1 on an old 486 and it took me 3 days.

I have been using mandrake 9.0 for about a week now and so far I have reinstalled it three times due to making a complete hash of it. The other time I tried to install Smoothwall which proceeded to repartition my hard drive taking Windows and Mandrake with it. It was my fault entirely though.

I have once or twice felt like giving it up and going back to windows but everyday I keep on finding out something new and I progress that little bit further. All in all its very stable

so far I have managed to Install my Modem (HFCPCIMODEM) not a winmodem thankfully. I grasped the concept of the Nvidia drivers, Ive got RTCW and UT 2003 running nicely with a native install, and I have a very pretty desktop. I still have problems two to be precise which if I dont figure out soon I will post a thread for help.

Thankyou for the words of encouragement I have read here and elsewhere

Regards a complete linux n00b

[iomayho]

i think i'm ready to make linux a permanent OS for me ......
you cannot imagine how many times i got into linux but bailed out at last because i couldn't live without windowsXP....
the first linux version i installed was redhat 7 and it was OK, but i couldn't play games, watch video etc... on it, so i quit,.... then, it was suse 7.2..., i actually bought the professional version, which i totally regreted later....... then it was mandrake 8.1.... it was nice, but still i went back to windows.....
well, this time...., i went for redhat 8.... I started messing with redhat 8 since the first day it was released, but because i couldn't get mplayer to work and other minor stuffs..., i quit.... so, few months later,... now i'm back in the game.... stil with redhat8.. ...
this time, i think i can totally ditch windowsXP.....
it been one full week now that i have been completely using linux without using windows... and that's a breakthrough for me...!!!!
the reason that i succeeded , is that i prevented using RPM in redhat 8...... most application i'm using now, and dependencies, libraries, etc.... are are compiled and installed by me .... I know this isn't something very amazing... but you actually learn to read the documents that comes with it... and once you get something working, you feel great and will continue to dive into the world of linux, cuz those feeling are just amazing......!!!

so, advice for people who are just starting to use linux,.......: don't use rpm packages.... get the tar files, learn to unpack, compile..., always read the README and INSTALL files....., 'man' is a great tool..... and don't use apt-get as well, you won't learn anything that way..... i started by setting up a goal of what i wanted to accomplish..(which was to get mplayer to work correctly, and even though it took me a long long time, it was worth it..) and then, bit by bit, get all the application that you normally use in windows to work in linux..., either by wine or find a similar product for linux (ie, i use lmule to replace emule, giFT to replace kazaa, mplayer to replace WMP, xmms to replace winamp, mozilla and opera for ie6, ripperX for CDex, etc........)
once you get all these stuffs working..... then there is no reason to back to windows.....!!!!

[sasKuatch]

Yeah, many people new to linux fail to realize that you don't need windows programs. They see it as, "If you can't get Adobe Acrobat, it means that linux doesn't see .pdf's", when that's not the case at all.

Congrats to those that are doing well, and good luck to those who are about to.:)

[windowsfree]

I like to hear stuff like this, actual encouragement! I'm glad I found this site when I first started using Linux, it's been a few months now since I went totally Linux and I've never been happier with my computer! I don't dread updating software, if something dosen't work I can find the problem and fix it (sometimes with the help of others on this site). My advice as a newbie to other newbies who are about to quit, just be patient, the solution to your problem is out there, and hey, who ever accomplished anything by quitting?

Now if I could just get xcdroast to work properly!

[kedman]

HI windowsfree
If you get any cdrw working, mail me. Its the one thing I cant get working in RH8! and is a real bugbear.
Got mplayer running by re-installing from the RH 8 disks and rebooting (rare in Linux I know!)
You'll find posts on here from me re CDRW
and the problems.
Let me know if you find any info
Cheers and good luck all
Kedman

[Snapafun]

To get xcdroast to work I had to first RTFM and then start the ball rolling by loging in as root. No other option is, as far as I can tell, available. Now I am happily burning to my hearts content and suggest that xcdroast is indeed the one to use.

Frank

[windowsfree]

well, I haven't got it working as of yet but I'm working on it. Remember not to give up! I also do some DJing tried to use audacity with no luck, then I tried Gdam and it works Gdam well! (I know I'm not really funny!)
and all the people here who offer their advice, us newbies really apriciate it, I'd be lost without it!

[nothingbutlinux]

Originally posted by iomayho
so, advice for people who are just starting to use linux,.......: don't use rpm packages.... get the tar files, learn to unpack, compile..., always read the README and INSTALL files

I'm a little ashamed to admit this, but ... I've never installed anything via tar files, I've always used RPMs. You have some compelling reasons to use them, though. I guess the fear factor of "Oh god, I'm going to completely screw things up!" has been enough to keep me from trying them. As I gain experience in Linux I'm finding that I have more courage to try things because I feel like I can fix it if I break it. Plus, it's kinda fun trying to fix things! I guess I should tackle tar files next, eh?

One thing I've noticed, since I started using Linux, I feel a lot more intelagent ... intellijent ... intillagent ... smarter!

[windowsfree]

thats cool, I use both depending on what the program is. RPM's are easier but tars are more fun!
besides, not everything is available in RPM's so knowing how to do it from tar is important too!

[sasKuatch]

Another thing that can screw up installs are corrupt CD's. I've had the unfortunate privelage of coming across one this past week and it's a really annoying problem. My original Mandrake CD got scratched severely (on the label side, it's see-through now), and I borrowed a friend's CD of the exact same distro. Guess what? It crashed miserable when the installer started, but I couldn't find anything about corrupt packages or anything. If I hadn't got this exact distro working countless times before, I might have suspected something severe, such as an incompatible motherboard, by looking at the error messages.

[windowsfree]

well, look at it this way, at least you didn't scrach a windoze xp disk, you'd be out around $500 (cdn)! and that would be really bad, my 9.0 powerpack was about $80 and worth every penny! can't wait for 9.1 to hit the shelves! (how many times have you heard that for a Windoze release? I haven't ever heard it!

[justy]

Why don't you try:
which sword

[lonewolf]

Thank you for starting this thread. I have given up on Linux a few times because of hardware problems. But every time I started using Ms-win again I had even more problems, So I would go back to Linux And then Get frustrated and go back to Ms-win.... I think you see the pattern. From experience with windows 95, 98, millenium and xp, I can honestly say that, despite the hardware problems with older versions of linux, Linux is much better then windows. A few days ago I wanted to give up on Linux again because of hardware problems but that would mean going back to windows. Windows is to restricting and unstable. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who gets frustrated with hardware problems and the huge difference between windows and linux.


"God give me patience and give it to me right now."

[sasKuatch]

Yeah, I know. I've been using linux for ~ 4 years now and I still get frustrated; like yesterday when I tryed installing Debian woody on my laptop and it didn't work. It looked like a corrupt package on the CD, even though it was still warm from doing a successful install on my desktop just minutes prior to that. Go figure:rolleyes:

[Vaseline]

As this now seems like an obligatory thread, it's here that I will offer my thanks to all the members here at JustLinux.

I've tried to migrate to Linux a couple of times and been unsuccessful. I think my first LNO account was deleted due to inactivity after one failed attempt. Something minor will have gone wrong and I'll have booted back to my copy of Microsoft's amazing Windows.

Now I love the ideas and the ethos of open source software and, somewhere at the back of my mind, the collapse of Bill's massive monopoly. Computers are nothing but recreation for me; a hobby. And I cannot give back to the community in the sense that I can't develop software. But I can appreciate the work of others and be thankful for it. And I can keep posting here and one day be as useful to someone as some of you have been to me. I do, I am, and I will.

Not by a long shot, am I well learned enough to not need the help of the members here.. But I've not booted to Windows for some months now, and I feel comfortable in my OS. Being able to do the things I do from day to day, with no hassle. And all the time, reading and learning about Linux and thinking what I might try and do next. It makes me wish sometimes that computers were an area of study for me, because then there are no limits with open source and Linux. The more you know, the more knowledge you implement, the more you can make of the time behind your desk..

I owe my migration, and further enjoyment of my time-wasting-computer-experience to you guys that post here on this forum. Everything I've learned has come from here or from www.google.com/linux, which of course I only heard of on these forums!

A heartfelt thank you, and a word of encouragement to those about to quit...


Edit: And be prepared for me to harrass you all for more help tomorrow..

;)

[Xyrin]

This was my third attempt to move completely to Linux. Third was a charm, and I am now a Micorsoft free household.

THanks to everyone for your help!

I love Linux. I love what it stands for, and I love freedom!!Wooohoo!

:D

[Gandalf2041]

I would like to echo the sentiments of Vaseline. I have given up on Linux on several occasions. I have only recently dedicated myself to using only Linux at home. This forum has provided very timely and accurate advice. If not for the members of this board, I would probably have given up yet again. I do love a challenge but I also like to conquer them once in a while.

THANKS!

[Darksamurai]

I'm with Gandalf...

I started up with Red Hat 7.2... got fed up with trying to get my sound card to work... had a friend snag me a copy of RH 8... tried again.

Kept blowing up 'cause the CDs were scratched up.

Then I decided to try out RH 9.0... Now I'm a friggin' Linux Junkie lookin' for an information fix (which is why I'm here) :D

[Jonitus]

Oh...my adventures with Linux...

First, it was Mandrake 8.0. Easy install, everything worked, but I wasn't willing to put in the time to learn, so I pussed out and went back to Windows.

Over the next two years, it was Mandrake 8.1, 8.2, RedHat 7.2, 7.3, FreeBSD 4.3, 4.7, Gentoo 1.2, 1.4_rc2, ASP Linux....

I have installed each of these with success, and been able to do what I want, but "I" am not willing to put aside my fears and devote some honest time to learn what to do.

This summer, I am taking a much needed vacation, and am going to devote a large portion of my time to getting Linux (not sure of distribution yet, but leaning towards Debian) working on my main rig I lovingly call "Bubba":

AOpen DX34R-U motherboard
(2) Intel PIII 1GHz
1024 MB PC133
(2) WD 40GB 7200rpm ATA-100
GeForce FX 5200 128 MB video card
Linksys LNE100TX v.4 NIC
Creative Labs SB16
24x10x40 CDRW (Sony)
52x CDROM (Sony)
1.44 MB Floppy (Sony)
Iomega ZIP-100


If I could get Linux running on this rig (the install isn't a problem, it's all the configurationa fter the install that scares me), I would be happy as hell. I dream of blasting some mp3's through XMMS, working on a document in OpenOffice, crunching a little SETI, running UT2003 or Q3, and monitoring everything through GKrellm.....nice dream.

Nice forum, gents...good work!

[kedman]

HI All
Got to say RH 9 is a big leap in the way of desktop!.
I had 7.3 and that was rock solid.
RH 8 was a disatser for me re CD burning and the like.
Tried Suse which killed rh8 and windoze so I ended up on RH 9.
It all worked out the box!
I really am suprised, it seems a faster system as well.
I keep meaning to reload win2k but just cant be bothered!!
Unfortunatly I blew up my Geforce 2 mx400 card it must have shorted on the case so Now I cant run my UT2003 which was exellent on rh8 and that card.
Anyway hope you all get the help you need
enjoy!!
:)

[madcompnerd]

Yes, my thanks too. Started Linux for the second time about 5 months ago. The first time I had tried a version that ran in DOS, well Win98 DOS. I think it was Caldera or Corel or some such thing?
I got rid of it because it started in a higher resolution than my monitor supported, and I thought all OS's were gui configured.
Then 5 months ago got RH8.0 from someone at school. Dual booted it with WinXP on the box I had just bought.
It ran well. Had difficulties with:
Java
Nvidia RPM's
Sound(solved in RH9)
RPM 4.1(random lock ups)
RPM installation in general
Source installs

And that's just on one of the boxes I converted to Linux. I also converted two old boxes.
But most of my problems got solved here. And now I have a wonderful OS that never asks who I am, and gives so much to me it's scary. The number of apps on Linux are astounding! Right out of the box I'm a kid in a candy store!
So 3d gaming may be a royal pain, dual boot with Win98! I open the programming menu in KDE and a plethora of editors appear; backed up by some excellent compilers.
And I only have to go to my cd's for Apache, PHP, and MySQL.
Linux is definitely a programmers dream OS. Thanks for all the help guys. I've learned so much, and I have ten times more to learn.

[n00bie]

I always wanted to try linux, but wasnt so sure... Untill recently.
I started reading documents and stuff online. At first.. it was confusing as hell... My brain stopped responding and I got severe headache.. But I finally decided to do it practically rather then just reading it... I decided on getting Mandrake (After some reading at this forum :) ) but wasnt able to get it... Fortunately.. I got my paws on RH8. It was my second choice... Installed it but found it doenst work with my sound card and I need ALSA drivers.. I wasnt quite sure how to install it and I always got some weird error whenever I installed anything... (Dependency hell)

Fortunately... I got Mandy 9 (current distro) Everything was smooth and good. Still there was an issue with RPM dependencies and I am still not sure how to compile stuff.
I also had to boot into windows each time I wanted to see any videos. I was pulling my hair.. trying to get MPlayer working.. but was stuck like most.
But then.. I saw that thread at 'How I did it' And surely my whole life did changed... URPMI.

Not only All my dependecies were solved, I can also keep my system clean. It is very eazy to manage packages... Infact Installing and removing any package is easier then it is in windows. Yes... Things actully are easier then windows...
I now also have wine running and Kazaa is working smoothly too :D And MPlayer.. Its the best damn movie player out there... Plays all the videos I have. Even those that didnt work with WMP 7 in my windows partiotion...
Fluxbox gets everyone confused. My friends say that it looks very 'weird' ;)

For my next distro.. I wanna try Debian. It would be tough.. but so was Mandrake and RH... But now.. I can fix stuff, although it hardly gets broken :D

[sasKuatch]

I'm in the process of (trying) to switch from MDK9.0 to Debian ( I have both installed ATM). I am impressed with apt-get. It makes urpmi look weak. Not only does it work better, it stays working unlike rpm that just says "Package already installed" NO IT'S NOT!!! Or whatever freakin' error after it breaks after a week or so of usage. After I get my modem and maybe soundcard working in Debian, it's bye-bye MDK.

The cool thing is, I can be running MDK, simply chroot into the Debian partition to apt-get packages off the net and install (because I'm online with MDK, but not Deb):)

[shuzi]

Originally posted by Gandalf2041
I would like to echo the sentiments of Vaseline. I have given up on Linux on several occasions. I have only recently dedicated myself to using only Linux at home. This forum has provided very timely and accurate advice. If not for the members of this board, I would probably have given up yet again. I do love a challenge but I also like to conquer them once in a while.

THANKS!


same here....

i use linux at home and have successfully ported everything i need in windows onto linux..although there are still some areas which need improvement like cd writing for eg., but its all a road to progress. if i look back onto redhat 6.2 or mandrake 7.0 (been there done that)....the new distros are phenomenally better. things are being made simpler and simpler as the distros progress so that its easier for people to make the transition in to the linux world. so currently, i use linux for day to day operations...but am now wanting to get into network through LAN and go deeper into linux rather than just using it graphically for "fun" stuff. i can't wait to get another old pc...fire it up with linux and connect it with this one so i can get down to do some REAL work. i guess i'll do that when i get a good job and sufficient cash, cause things out here (in india, i mean)...its not THAT easy for people at my age (19) to be so liberal....ahh well time ought to make it better. in conclusion, i'm glad the progress linux is making and A BIG THUMBS UP to all the people in this forum! thanx for the support!

[SonOfAres]

easy for y'all ta say:
I tried to put Linux in a few months ago. I'm 15, so really I have very little acces to other machines, and none that I can install anything on. I put on Mandrake 9.0. Unfortunately, my cursor is blank. No one could figure it out. I've found different solutions, but none that work for me. I haven;t officially give up, but I stopped trying to fix it. Well, that is, until I read about a programming class and remembered how much I love working with computers. Phew... just lemme put all my important files (read: mp3's) onto cds, and I'm ready to start screwing my computer up again! (read: installing Linux)
anyways, it's nice u guys dont want us to quit, but truth is, and u gotta admit it, for *most* people (specially me) it IS a lot easier to just use Microsoft. Sure, it may lock up every few seconds, and I may be at their mercy, but I honestly don't want to spend weeks learning how to install a single video game on Linux that I could just click a few buttons on Windows (then reinstall some drivers, add some new things, and all that, but it still takes less time than Linux)
however, me, being me, wants to rid myself of dependence and expand my horizons!

[sasKuatch]

Say what you will, after you learn Linux, there is no going back.

Just today, being forced to play an audio cd in winxp with media player (ew), I discovered how a$$-backwards windows is. I had a hell of a time figuring out how to turn off those annoying system sounds.

[janne_oksanen]

Three months in Linux and I'm not going back! I built my first "own" computer a few weeks ago and I didn't have enough ram to install RH9. So I thought I'd try Win98 just to make shure I had set up the computer right. Oh man whadda nightmare! I spent two days looking for bios updates and soundcard drivers and stuff. Still I couldn't view .pdf documents burn cds or unzip files. You can imagine how glad I was get RH9 running to be able to do all that stuff. I finally realized that the only reason my win boxes seemed to run easier was because I had been modifying them for five years installing all the software needed to do things. It only took me two weeks to get Linux up to that point.

Yes, there were moments of disbelief but when I found this forum things started happening a lot faster. Thank you guys, I'll do try to do my share helping out newbies too.

Janne

[Vador8088]

I like many others I have pick up and put down linux over the years. Getting so far then giving up normally due to hard ware problems. A few weeks ago I pick up my old copy of Red Hat 6 and installed it...once again I had some problems getting my NIC card to work. One day I thought WTF and downloaded RH 9...and MY GOD! People dont give up installlation is getting more and more friendly on all Distros. One thing that kinda struck me is RH 9 seems kinda "bloated" (compare win98 to XP). Before installing any linux on my "main" computer here in my lab. I installed RH 6 on a 333mhz celeron with 128mb SDRAM and RH 6 ran fine...then I put RH 9 on and it crawled. Put 128 more megs of RAM in and it was much better.

[madcompnerd]

KDE, Gnome, and X are a lot more bloated than they were 2-3 years ago. But shouldn't they be? At least a little bit?

[JGooner]

Nice post (the thread starter). Shame about the politics.

[Darksamurai]

I'm a Windows Guru... I've been usin' MS since '85 (I had a monochrome monitor, a wussy 8088 and DOS).

Fact is, I decided to pick up Linux 'cause it caught my eye the way Macintosh never did (although I've heard some good things about OS.X)...

I enjoy Linux... it's a challenge and I've come to enjoy it. I'm actually considering going back to college to pick up enough programming skill (I may just get a bunch of books and go that way... but I need a BS to continue my computer career) to write a couple of programs for Linux just because I want to join in and make Linux the best damn O/S there is.

I'm really looking forward to the day when people get fed up with the MS keeps screwing everybody and goes with Open Source...

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by JGooner
Nice post (the thread starter). Shame about the politics.

:confused: Perhaps PM me and clarify?

[davo]

Here's some encouragement for those who want to USE Linux, and not just fool with it. (My husband Davo is the Linus guru in our house. I am Dana, his wife, using his login here.) I am a professional freelance writer, and I work strictly on Linux using OpenOffice. In the last several months, I have had only ONE time when Linnux gave me problems. We let the kids go over to the Windows side of the computer to play, and it crashed 3 times in 2 days. I'll stick with Linnux, thank you; I can't afford the down time on Windows.

By the way, I let my guru hubby take care of keeping Linnux working to HIS satisfaction (it's already working to mine!). :D

Dana

[terribleRobbo]

Erm. 'Linux'. :D

Good to hear it's going well for you. We need a wider user base, damnit. :)

[Darkbolt]

Ive been using linux off and on sence this past summer. I started off with mandrake8.2, but this past fall I got my hands on slackware8.1, and its interested me alot more..My first few attempts didnt last very long, but in the past month, I've been more eager to spend time in slack than windows... And I've really been enjoying it. Enough so that Im considering buying a subscription to wine, just so I can berid my windows partition

[aNoob]

And what about me? I was (and still) a huge redhat fan although mandrake was once on my laptop. But at work , nobody wants to give linux a try.Everybody uses windoze and moreover , the company got Micro$hit partnership , so bye bye linux. I have show the RedHat offers for eductaion and all that stuffs , because they are the best among the distros. No effect. I have shown them that they can do EVERYTHING they are doing now in windoze , as well in linux. No chance. Then I have increased my offer saying that I will install everything and get everything working properly. Still no chan.ce.
So , windoze , windoze everyday , and got tired to link my laptop to the home comp when I could use the source safe from work , so , shame on me , I have quit linux for about 1 year. Which means that at boot I was choosing only winxp.
Is for that my name is aNoob , because I could be maybe more helpful now! I am so pissed about me that I have deleted windoze at home , and the family passes now through the linux education program. SO far there are no complaints since the kids are only 2 years old. As for my wife , if she have a browser and msn she is more than happy.
This is my story , I hope I will not do it again...

[sasKuatch]

I know how that feels. People get very defensive and attached to things that have control over them. It's called Stockholm Syndrome. I just never thought windows was bad enough to cause it.:confused: :p

Otherwise, keep at it people. Some of the windows-to-linux stories I've read here make my transition seem easy. It can be done, but don't rush. Take time to read documentation before you plunge into an install or other action. Most importantly, have fun.

Rob.

[Antipode]

To make every newbie feel better, here's how I got turned to Linux, and why - no matter how much of a problem I have - I won't give up. Besides the fact that I'm stubborn.

After attempted installs several times, all of which failed, I gave up on Linux for a while. Then, last December, I decided to give it another go, so I Partition Magicked and was all happy... until it stopped moving. After realizing I wasn't going to recover, I rebooted, to find that I can't get anywhere. Dead hdd.

Linux to the rescue.

I go out and buy another HD and install Red Hat 7.3 on it, then after a lot of aggrevation I finally slave the other drive (I'm new to hardware in general, but I learn through force) and salvage a few gig - all that's left of my 40gb drive. Most of my mp3s (tough to replace on dialup) and all of my pictures (just not replacable) lived, and for that I'm thankful. Ironically, Partition Magic was trashed.

So anyways, I figure since I have two HDDs I'll just throw Windows on the old drive again and dual boot with two drives. Nope, even after formatting properly several times, nothing but Red Hat wanted to install on it. XP, ME (ugh), 98, even 95, nothing... so I put the drive aside.

Me, not wanting to let anything go to waste, go and buy a barebones system which just arrived yesterday. Put Mandrake 9.1 on it and salvaged parts (most of which got put back, obviously) such as a modem and a CD drive. Put in my Geforce 4 video card that's been sitting in the box for about a month... cut and splice all the fan wiring to clean it up... then I cross my fingers and try Mandrake on the dead drive.

It worked. No problems at all installing it.

I got ahead of myself though. Mandrake absolutely refuses to see my internal hardware modem as a modem. It calls it a modem in the hardware info, but it doesn't put it under the modem section.

So now I'm stuck back on the RH7.3 box when I'd really like to be running the new toy... so now I have to learn how to network the 'drake box to the RH box so it can use the modem through RH. I've never done any networking before, but since when does that stop me?

Maybe it's the lack of sleep talking, but I'm more of a Linux fan than ever. I thought I was damn good with computers, and I was bored, but this gives me a welcome challenge.If I can get Wine running Warcraft on 'drake, (and get my cable modem back) - I'll be the happiest person in the world.

Don't give up because of a little snag. I'm running naked through a cornfield and I'm still going. Someone just get me some gauze :(

[windowsfree]

I know what you guys mean about people who won't even look at linux! And the whole stockholm syndrome thing, but on a positive note, I've "converted about 11 people who had never even heard of Linux before to using it, and when I move back to Edmonton I have alot of friends who are totally interested in it, mainly because of the cost of using WinD'OH!s XP. But unfortunately where I work right now they don't see the point of switching. :confused:

[sasKuatch]

Antipode, Warcraft2 BNE will definitely run (not the regular though), as well as Starcraft. Those two games are my strategy mainstays in linux, as Quake3 and UT and UT2k3 are for shooters.

[Antipode]

Wasn't too concerned with WC2, was hoping more for WC3, but I guess I'll find out if it works or not once I get everything else working first. If anyone has WC3 running, I'd like to know, heh.

[SkimMilk]

i dont wanna give up... i wanna start learning abt linux but my problem is driving me crazy... :(

http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=563671#post563671
anyone who can help pls kindly drop some advice... *sobbing*

[sasKuatch]

Sounds to me like we have exactly the same ethernet/modem combo only mine's a Dell. Works fine in mandy and debian. I'll try to post some help in your thread, though I've never install a nic the hard way.

Don't give up. Hang in there.

[deleeuw]

Just wanted to put my 2-cents in:

Last fall I tried installing Linux RH 7.3 on my system--it seemed to go fine, except GRUB screwed up my mbr and my video card had "issues". Because of the fact that Linux allows for a lot of customizing, I was able to edit my grub.conf and my xf86config.
It was a hassle--but it was also very refreshing, as I could get in and FIX my problem (thanks in no small part to this forum), instead of being told (read: forced) to download another patch or the latest service pack (released to solved the bugs caused by previous sp's!)

As a former M$ employee, I have seen from the inside some of the stuff that is done to make Windows more automated --and thus "user-friendly". But, as it takes the user out of the process of setup, on the assumption --or hope?-- that users are just too stupid, M$ products end up being "user-hostile", condescending to the lowest common denonimator with bells-and-whistles, but hijacking a system with automatic updates, and REQUIRED online registration!

Nietzsche once wrote that one ought to build cities on Vesuvius. In the south Atlantic, there is a creature that nests along side an active volcano, braving every year mighty waves and sharp rocks to return. That creature is:
A penguin

[RaGe2012]

I had quite a time getting the hang of Linux (being a n00b and all :D) Now after only about six months with it I feel right at home, even moreso than with Windows...and yes...new hardware is quite a hassle, unless you are using Mandrake or Red Hat, in which case there will probably be something there to help you in the distro itself.

Lets just hope SCO doesn't kill Linux in the cradle before it fully matures.

-----------------------

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left!

[sasKuatch]

Not this again:(

People who don't know anything about linux and read that think it's something being worked on by 3 people since 1999 or something.

[hyp_spec]

I've been using linux for ~ a year now. I started off with mandrake 8.1 and i hated it. Nothing would work, and at the time i couldnt get my old 56k modem working (ADSL now :-D). So i quit that and went back ot windows for a couple of weeks. After that i picked up a copy of RH 7.2. I liked it, and used it for 2 months then i found out about the best distro ever - Slackware. I had heard it was no holds barred do what you want to it and without stupid dependencies. It was 8.1 and i loved it. I got everything working fairly quickly, and got to know my system real well. Since, I've reinstalled several times and tried Slack9 which the hotplugging hates my system, and the fact that i didn't like it. I'm thinking about installing RH9 and seeing how it is? Any comments? I currently use Blackbox w/ ONLY GTK apps. I dont like kde and kde3.1 doesnt like me - :/ My system might be old (1999 Emachines 533id2) it's been through a lot and so has the linux community. In a whole year we go from gtk1/gnome + qt2/kde2 to gtk2/gnome2 + qt3/kde3, we've seen advancements in all applications making cd burning easier configuration easier (for n00bs) and the almighty GAIM is the best IM client i've ever used on any OS. What will we see in another year? KDE4? GNOME3? or maybe a newer version of Blackbox - or is it defunct now? Who knows cause I dont. I've only had to go on windows to show my mom how to do something but I have no need for it and can do what i want when i want in Linux

~peace

[CrashTestDummy9]

Originally posted by hyp_spec
I've been using linux for ~ a year now. I started off with mandrake 8.1 and i hated it. Nothing would work, and at the time i couldnt get my old 56k modem working (ADSL now :-D). So i quit that and went back ot windows for a couple of weeks. After that i picked up a copy of RH 7.2. I liked it, and used it for 2 months then i found out about the best distro ever - Slackware. I had heard it was no holds barred do what you want to it and without stupid dependencies. It was 8.1 and i loved it. I got everything working fairly quickly, and got to know my system real well. Since, I've reinstalled several times and tried Slack9 which the hotplugging hates my system, and the fact that i didn't like it. I'm thinking about installing RH9 and seeing how it is? Any comments? I currently use Blackbox w/ ONLY GTK apps. I dont like kde and kde3.1 doesnt like me - :/ My system might be old (1999 Emachines 533id2) it's been through a lot and so has the linux community. In a whole year we go from gtk1/gnome + qt2/kde2 to gtk2/gnome2 + qt3/kde3, we've seen advancements in all applications making cd burning easier configuration easier (for n00bs) and the almighty GAIM is the best IM client i've ever used on any OS. What will we see in another year? KDE4? GNOME3? or maybe a newer version of Blackbox - or is it defunct now? Who knows cause I dont. I've only had to go on windows to show my mom how to do something but I have no need for it and can do what i want when i want in Linux

~peace RH9 is pretty brainless...Seems to run ok but I only get about 7000 on glxgears with KDE running.Havent tried with other wm's.RH9 is ok though....its hard to get a RH install under 1.7gb's though

[hyp_spec]

eh --> i'll stay with my slack install then i have 10gb on my 15gb for linux but my mp3 collection is getting bigger. I need a new harddrive...having DSL fills my hard drive too much >_<

btw, i'd like to try Gentoo, but since i heard that they are dropping emerge for RPM it looks like Slack is the only good distro anymore... pity.

[undeadska]

Seeing all this stuff posted on this thread really reassures the power of the Linux community.

I have read in some of the posts that companies aren't willing to give Linux a try... to that I have one thing to say. The large amount of mistrust isn't truely with Linux but the support behind it. When most companies buy a software package they tend to value support moreso than the product itself.

I have had the luxury at my age (22) to in management for a telco and am currently working for the IS area of a healthcare company. When I worked for the telco, Linux was ALWAYS an option and 3/4's of the system ran on it. What was truely interesting was that there were only about a handful of Windows desktops. The entire building (400 seats) was using SPARC Solaris workstations running GNOME. It was at this time I became sucked into the Linux world.

Now as I look to the future of healthcare I am pushing the company towards Linux at the backend. Just keep in mind that when you are pushing Linux at your place of business that you don't neccessarily say "Linux can do everything Windows can do", but rather "Linux has these features that Windows does not, plus the standard features of Windows." Companies see no point in switching from one currently working solution to a new "equal" working solution.

Hats off to all those out there who are willing to give back to the Linux community. Keep up the incredible work!

[undeadska]

Seeing all this stuff posted on this thread really reassures the power of the Linux community.

I have read in some of the posts that companies aren't willing to give Linux a try... to that I have one thing to say. The large amount of mistrust isn't truely with Linux but the support behind it. When most companies buy a software package they tend to value support moreso than the product itself.

I have had the luxury at my age (22) to in management for a telco and am currently working for the IS area of a healthcare company. When I worked for the telco, Linux was ALWAYS an option and 3/4's of the system ran on it. What was truely interesting was that there were only about a handful of Windows desktops. The entire building (400 seats) was using SPARC Solaris workstations running GNOME. It was at this time I became sucked into the Linux world.

Now as I look to the future of healthcare I am pushing the company towards Linux at the backend. Just keep in mind that when you are pushing Linux at your place of business that you don't neccessarily say "Linux can do everything Windows can do", but rather "Linux has these features that Windows does not, plus the standard features of Windows." Companies see no point in switching from one currently working solution to a new "equal" working solution.

Hats off to all those out there who are willing to give back to the Linux community. Keep up the incredible work!

[CrashTestDummy9]

Originally posted by hyp_spec
eh --> i'll stay with my slack install then i have 10gb on my 15gb for linux but my mp3 collection is getting bigger. I need a new harddrive...having DSL fills my hard drive too much >_<

btw, i'd like to try Gentoo, but since i heard that they are dropping emerge for RPM it looks like Slack is the only good distro anymore... pity. Ive never graduated past the basic graphical installs that RH and Mandrake have(other than a brief affair with Debian).I would love to do a Gentoo Install but I find fdisk confusing.(guess its just me)Maybe ive been chatting online in Windows and playing too much Delta Force Blackhawk Down.

oh well, i'll get my mind right someday.

[JQuinton]

I had Linux Red Hat 8.0 on my old machine. I just bought a new IBM Pentium 4 with 1.8 processor. It came preinstalled with Windows XP on a 40 GB HDD. My Problem: I bought a new 80 GB HDD...i wanted to partition 1/2 of it for Windows and 1/2 for Red Hat. The partitioning didn;t go well.....so I deceided to just install Red Hat on the whole HDD. I installed it and when I went to use it...it isaid, "I cannot start the X server (your graphical interface). It is likely that it is not set up correctly. Would you like to view the X servere output to diagnose the problem?". I clicked on "YES" and it said, "(EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: no screens found."

I signed on textually...signed on as su...and then typed Xconfigurator......it saidf, "-bash: Xconfigurator: command not found."

PLEASE HELP.....I have wasted a whole day on this and I am going crazy............

I put back in my 40 GB XP HDD to send this message......

Should I put back in the 80 GB HDD....format the disk...partition it again and start over????????

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

[JQuinton]

I had Linux Red Hat 8.0 on my old machine. I just bought a new IBM Pentium 4 with 1.8 processor. It came preinstalled with Windows XP on a 40 GB HDD. My Problem: I bought a new 80 GB HDD...i wanted to partition 1/2 of it for Windows and 1/2 for Red Hat. The partitioning didn;t go well.....so I deceided to just install Red Hat on the whole HDD. I installed it and when I went to use it...it isaid, "I cannot start the X server (your graphical interface). It is likely that it is not set up correctly. Would you like to view the X servere output to diagnose the problem?". I clicked on "YES" and it said, "(EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: no screens found."

I signed on textually...signed on as su...and then typed Xconfigurator......it saidf, "-bash: Xconfigurator: command not found."

PLEASE HELP.....I have wasted a whole day on this and I am going crazy............

I put back in my 40 GB XP HDD to send this message......

Should I put back in the 80 GB HDD....format the disk...partition it again and start over????????

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

[sploo22]

Originally posted by RaGe2012
Lets just hope SCO doesn't kill Linux in the cradle before it fully matures.

Boy I feel dumb for asking this... but what is SCO? How is it connected with Linux? How could it "kill" Linux?

I've read something in the news about SCO but have absolutely no idea what is going on. I am totally and completely lost... :confused: :confused: :confused:

[CrashTestDummy9]

Originally posted by sploo22
Boy I feel dumb for asking this... but what is SCO? How is it connected with Linux? How could it "kill" Linux?

I've read something in the news about SCO but have absolutely no idea what is going on. I am totally and completely lost... :confused: :confused: :confused: http://www.caldera.com/

[RinkyDink]

Originally posted by sploo22
Boy I feel dumb for asking this... but what is SCO? How is it connected with Linux? How could it "kill" Linux?

I've read something in the news about SCO but have absolutely no idea what is going on. I am totally and completely lost... :confused: :confused: :confused:

It's a dumba$$ lawsuit by SCO Group against IBM, claiming, among other things, that IBM contributed proprietary SCO code in Linux, in violation of SCO's unix license to IBM. SCO hasn't revealed what code they claim was copied, Netscape has now sued SCO, and even Lindows has jumped into the fray. It's a complete mess, and now that it's in the legal system it will never be resolved and will have no effect (just like the Microsoft litigation!).

Read about it to your heart's content at http://slashdot.org/search.pl?query=sco

[sasKuatch]

undeadska, that's a really good point, people don't want to switch for no reason. I almost forgot that point when showing linux to people; it's better, not equal to windows.


JQuinton, did you post a proper thread asking for help? This is off-topic in here. Thanks.

[taylorj]

I have been growing bored at school lately so I decided to install linux and challenge myself. I am, well was anyway, ultra new to linux. I had used a similar shell a little back in the late eighties and early nineties to access the net. It took me about five days, but I now have a dual boot linux/98se laptop serving a small LAN with apache, PHP, FTP, and MySQL. I can do all of my server side testing at home and independent of the internet!

All I can say is learn it. Stick with it and it will stick with you. I have learned so much in these last few days about networking, linux, compiling on linux, daemons, ,processes...the list goes on. I am happy with linux.

[zoniguana]

This might provide a little encouragement, too...

Story of the Switchover (http://www.naturalwebs.com/switchover.html)

[sasKuatch]

Great article! Thanks for the link.

[zoniguana]

While I didn't necessarily have fun with the experiences, I had fun with the reminiscing...

I'm thinking of doing a series of articles along that same thread, getting into more detail... Ought be pretty entertaining... ;-)

[sasKuatch]

I'm sure it will. Most people (including myself) have gone through some interesting experiences learning linux.

Ah yes, nothing like learning how to run executables for the first time.:D

[zoniguana]

I was too busy trying to figure out how to install something from source...

[sasKuatch]

I started smaller, and from the article, much younger than you. I didn't know anything about computers when I started using Linux. I didn't even use DOS. I was what, 15? ... into computers for only about a year, I hadn't even formatted a hard drive yet, much less partition one! So unprepared... good times...:D

[zoniguana]

I was 25, I think, and irritated that this 18-year-old kid who had a tendency towards stupidity (rollerblading down an icy hill into traffic was one example) was the only one who could work with the servers. Knowing that 1- if anything happened to him, we were so far beyond screwed they were wheeling us into the delivery room and 2- something was likely to happen to him kinda lit a fire under my butt... ;-)

Turns out the company went belly up before he did, but, I learned a few things... ;-)

[deanrantala]

I remember my first linux experience

Wheres "install.exe" ?
Wheres the C:\ drive?
Wheres the A:\ drive?
wheres the CD-rom drive?
I have to "compile" the program?
What do you mean /mnt ?
Why can't I just play SOME MP3's !!
Wheres THE FRIGGIN CONTROL PANEL, I JUST WANT TO INSTALL A DRIVER!!!!!!

Ah... It is all becoming so much clearer now.

[zoniguana]

About that point, I was dangerously close to backin' off twenty paces and testing the ballistics of a computer case vs. a 9mm... ;-) It was exceptionally tempting... Glad I didn't though...

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

I like the content of this thread and the idea of encouraging those who have been discouraged by the sometimes daunting task of learning Linux. But, the thread never was a space for asking Technical Support questions.

Several of you in this thread have mentioned that the thread is off-topic, so I'm moving it to the appropriate off-topic forum, /dev/random.

[sasKuatch]

Ok, that's cool. You're the mod.

Yeah, I didn't have that much trouble adjusting, because frankly I didn't know how to install a driver in windows.:) This was my first computer, and it was factory installed with everything, so I didn't have to know anything; I didn't even uninstall anything off it yet. Then, my printer driver went poopy and I messed it up royally trying to reinstall it, so my friends came over to help me reformat. What an event!:D Some time around that, I read a Popular Mechanics article about Linux by Kim Komando. I was hooked by the screenshots. I didn't know linux was better yet, because I didn't even realise just how bad windows was. I just wanted to try something new. Found an article on cyberarmy.com (hehe, don't laugh:p, I was young) about how to install Zipslack. After days of downloading on dialup, I unzipped it and ran it. Looking blankly at the command line, I had no clue what to do. I knew that ls was like dir and cd was the same. That's it. I just looked at it, and thought "now what?". I wanted the kind of stuff I saw in the article.:D

[mdwatts]

We ALL tried to talk Alex out of it, but he just wouldn't listen. Damn mods. :rolleyes:

[ions]

I am this close: | | to putting XP back on my machine!!!

I installed Mandrake 9.1 using KDE 3.1 on my machine last Friday adn was more or less happy with it. Since then it's been nothing but a ridiculous pain!! Nothing is easy!

I have decent PC experience, I've built many PCs, supported NT at a basic user level, and worked as a web developer until I got into IT sales but Linux has made me feel like a twit!!

I have no clue how to install a thing! I've been reading constantly since Friday and still feel no further ahead. When I try to follow directions explicitly I get screwed because my machine does not do what the directions say it should. Of the rpms that I've managed to get working all have had "bad signatures". Whatever that means. All of them!! I've been told to use rpms because they're far easier - unfortunately I can't always find an rpm! I can't get Mplayer to install. Among other very simple problems that I can't find answers to through searching. I had more than adequate search skills with Windows problems. Either I have somehow forgotten how to search or something else is amiss.

I had a cd rom die on me so I removed it and have now lost my cd writers functionality as a writer with no clue how to fix that!

I ask for help and usually I get a response that's over my head so I start asking real basic questions and I get treated like a brainless newb who hasn't searched!

I see the potential to Linux but I have no $ for a book at this point and I don't have the patience to be w/o certain functionality that I so easily have with Windows!!!

I'm so frustrated!!

[terribleRobbo]

Probably the easiest thing for you is to come and chat on one of the irc channels (use X-Chat, just open up a terminal (Right-click -> New Terminal) and type 'xchat' (without quotes)).

Have a look at the #justlinux channel, or the au.austnet.org #linuxhelp channel.

We're all friendly. :D

[ions]

Originally posted by terribleRobbo
Probably the easiest thing for you is to come and chat on one of the irc channels (use X-Chat, just open up a terminal (Right-click -> New Terminal) and type 'xchat' (without quotes)).

Have a look at the #justlinux channel, or the au.austnet.org #linuxhelp channel.

We're all friendly. :D

I don't have xchat and one of the problems I'm having is installing new software...I'll give installing xchat a shot though provided I find an rpm that works I just may see you there. :(

[deanrantala]

The biggest problem many people have is the initail shock. Like I have quoted in other posts.

"Wheres INSTALL.EXE?"

"Wheres the control panel?"

"Why can't I just install a simple driver?"

and so on...

I felt exectly the way you do right now. Here are a few things you need to get comfortable with on linux and be familiar with:

1) Everything on linux is a "file". Including your sound card, printer, serial ports, ans so on. Rather than looking for your modem on com 1, it is located at /dev/tty1.

2) There are two methods of installing software: compile, or use rpm's. Don't worry about "bad signatures" that is the same as worrying about the "this driver is not digitally signed by microsoft" warnings you usually get with windows. An rpm is the same as the "install.exe" you are used to in windows. In other words, the program has already been biult, or "compiled" and simply needs to be installed - this is usually faster. Compiling is taking the actuall source code, and biulding the program from scratch to custom fit your system, a slower but often higher tweeked aproach.

3) Think of linux as dos and win 3.1 was. Just as windows 3.1 was a seperate shell that ran over dos, so is KDE and GNOME a GUI that runs over the linux system.

4) This was the worse thing for me to grasp at one time: drivers. Unlike windows, linux dose not force you to run all low level device "drivers" as an integral part within the kernel. While you do have the option of compiling the drivers into the linux kernel, the other way wich hardware is loaded is by using modules. The benefit to using a module is that the "driver" can be loaded od unloaded at any time - eliminating all the sensless reboots you are familliar with on windows.

Trust me - after some time, you will actually look at windows and realize how awkward it is designed and layed out. I myself am still considered a "newbee", and even though I work with windows machines on a daily basis (as a PC repair tech), the whole windows enviorment feels foriegn to me now.

BTW: What distro are you using, Mandrake?

[ions]

I'm using Mandrake 9.1 with KDE 3.1 over top. I chose this because the consensus on the bulletin boards was that this was an easy distro to start with. Eventually I'd like to build a Linux system from the kernel up but days like today make that feel like an impossibility.

Thanks for the tips - those are the concepts I am having trouble with. Coming to grips with the filesystem is an adventure as well.

I'm still having problems with my CD RW drive and what make it more frustrating is I'm not sure where to go and what to do to remedy the problem. I CAN'T JUST INSTALL A SIMPPLE DRIVER!!

As of right now I'm reading my umpteenth tutorial on Linux. This one seems to be starting from a low enough level to help me out.

It's now my personal vendetta to get this machine running well. No sleep until then! :o

[sasKuatch]

No! Just go to sleep, come back with a clear head and don't try to pound it in. Do you have a dual boot (windos and linux both installed)? Whenever you feel overwhelmed, go do something else. Relax. This isn't a physics class, take it slow and treat it like an exploration. In other words, have fun.

One method I recommend (if you have the drive space) is to intall everything. Just select everything during the installation phase, and be done with it. That way, you'll have your mplayer, xchat, and other stuff there. Once you feel comfortable using it this way, grab some simple extra programs and compile them from source. Try installing Python (http://www.python.org), or some DockApps (http://www.dockapps.org). This is just a little homework from me; you don't need to use them, just practice installing them. Don't get stressed trying to install something you desperately need or want. Try things just for jun, it's more relaxing.

And one more thing, just use it. Don't jump in too far, just poke around and use it at your leasure for now.

(PS. deanrantala, nice post)

[Tireseas]

ions: Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux!!! I say that with only a small amount of tongue-in-cheek :)
The responses you have received thus far are pretty good, and certainly the emphasis on having fun, relaxing, experiment, play, etc, these are certainly the right kinds of approaches/attitudes to adopt when using Linux. This might sound very kooky, but bear in mind that Linux was born out of Linus's desire to play and experiment, and the impressive range of software available was created out of the challenge and love for designing solid and reputable software, the whole ethos of Linux is really about those attitudes.
When I first switched to Linux I was asking questions about how one defrags the drive, as well as installs new software/drivers, and whereis [Windows equivalent]. This is a natural part of learning: we tend to approach something new using the frames of reference of what we already know. The difficulty for you might well be because you are so experienced with Windows, and one of the most intransigent aspects about a Windows user switching to Linux is for them to acknowledge that computing is not exclusively the way that Windows has made it be. So yes, everything in Linux is a file which means that it can be endlessly (almost) configured to be exactly how you want it to be. The downside of this is that (a) this can be overwhelming and intimidating for a new user and (b) requires a solid knowledge of what one is doing so that one doesn't screw it up. With Windows, one is presented with a limited set of options; in Linux the machine and its configuration literally is yours: freedom can be intimidating as well as exhilirating!!
I found that one of the ways I learnt was to install a distro and play with it for a while and then reinstall it. The second installation was done with a greater level of awareness with what was happening at the time - from drive partitioning, to software package installation, to setting up the peripherals, etc.
Another thing that I have found useful is to set up a dummy account and once I have my main user account set up the way I like it, I go to the dummy account and play with different window managers, secure in the knowledge that I can trash the heck out of that account and it is not going to impact the rest of my settings, and if necessary, I can simply deep-six the account.
Finally, in learning Linux try and familiarise yourself with the command line - use a terminal window (XTerm, for example) - and read a short intro to the bash shell and try to move around your account files (using cd to change directory, and touch to create a new file, and then rm to remove that new file, or mv to move a file from one place to another, etc). By doing this there are two (or more) outcomes: 1. you'll gain a small but significant sense of accomplishment by breaking from the point-and-click reliance on icons that Windows fosters and 2. the instructions that people give when offering help will actually begin to make more sense, because most of those instructions are given using the commandline interface (CLI).
Above all else: be gentle with yourself and patient. You really are walking into a world of a very powerful computing system that has only relatively recently extended itself to offering a helping hand to the uninitiated. It does take time to learn, and I'm sure that many of the old seasoned veteran Linux users here still learn things from time-to-time.
Good luck and keep at it. The rewards are significant!!

All the best :)

[RodNICE]

Wow this was a big thread. Unfortunately I did not get to read it all.

Yes I too feel like quitting, at least until the time that I can find someone in the area who has been down this road before. Look, coming from a Windows environment, I'll admit that I got by not knowing much, but what did I care? I recently got an award for designing a new document at the office all while still feeling insecure about the whole of my OS.

But what do I care? Could I print? Yes. Could I edit graphics? Yes. Can I play a game a two? Yes. Do I get a different error every week? Yes. But why care!?

On Linux, is it gonna take me a few months before I'm able to print? Most likely. Games? Well, I don't really care about that. Does it crash on me whenever it feels like? Nope, stable as can be... but installing the apps I find, hooking up external devices etc etc etc takes a lot more sweat.

No pain no gain I guess.

[Tireseas]

RODNICE: To be honest, I haven't scrolled all the way thru this thread to see whether you have asked for specific help regarding printing yet. If you haven't, then please do so - the folk here will be able to help you. This is your tech support team, and trust me on this one: the calibre of help here far outweighs most of anything you would have paid for with some support and service agreement.
Also, the learning is a process ... I'm not sure that anyone ever really arrives :)!!!!

[RodNICE]

... how do I go to my friends and say that I have the world's best OS if I can't even get the printer to work. I just wiped my hard drive and installed Win2K because I couldn't wait another month before I can use my printer and other get a sound editor up and running.

I know Linux is the best, but I have absolutely no way of proving that through experience.

Friend: "Rod, so how is printing on Linux?'
Rod : "Err, it's the best OS in the world but my printer
doesn't work. It will work though"
Friend: "Why not use Windows and go plug-and-pray?"
Rod: "Good question, but Linux is the best"
Friend: "While you waste months trying to get your
peripherals to work, I'll be at home with my fellow bill-borgs
playing the latest games, creating our own beats, and
printing off our flyers to our new computer business."
Rod: "You'll regret it one day."
Friend: "You regret it now lol"
Rod " :( "

[deanrantala]

RodNICE:

1) What distro you using?
2) What printer you got?
3) How big is your hard drive?
4) Got high speed internet?

Feel free to PM me if you need to do so. BTW:I am learning every day - like tireseas said: you never arrive....:)

[Tireseas]

RodNICE: LOL that's a really amusing vignette!! Certainly puts your dilemma into perspective. From your last posting it sounds like you have already deep-sixed your Linux distro in favour of W2K. Of course, that is your perogative. To be honest though I cannot really understand why you would be having such a prob with the distro. I am no computer boffin, and the only distro out of the four I have tried (RH7.2, RH8.0, MDK9.0, and Slackware9.0) that I have had difficulty with in getting my printer and CD-RW to work with is Slackware, and that was on a Mitek laptop. The main distros (such as RH, MDK, and SuSE) tend to find hardware and peripherals right out of the box, and are considered to be the most (new)user friendly because they are intentionally configured for the widest possible audience. Slackware (and possibly Debian and Gentoo, although having never useed Deb or Gentoo I can't say) tend not to come with so much bloat, but the benefit is that one gets a sleeker and more stable system.
Anyway, I am sorry that your Linux encounter was disappointing. Perhaps you'll try it again one day, and if not, well good luck with the Win2K and I hope that it works out for you ... and really, no shame/blame.
All the best
Andy

[RodNICE]

Win2K... Time of Death... about 8 hours after I installed it.. LOL

Well my DOS disk still works fine... maybe I can get my printer working
with DOS? HAHAHAHA :( *sob*

Well, as soon as I copy the few personal files I was able to create in the short life of my Win2K box, I'll go DL RH9 and Dual boot with Millenium or something.

[Tireseas]

RodNICE: Check the condition of your drive as well - something might not be working as it should. Also, suggestion: don't DL RH9 - see if you can spend the bucklets and buy a book - e.g. the Red Hat x.x Bible or some such - it comes with the CD(s) and will give you an excellent intro to RH or try SuSE - the docs are reputed to be really excellent and it'll be a lot less hassle than DL and making sure you have all the right files and versions, etc. Also, don't dual boot with Millenium - it has a bad rep even amongst Windows stuff as unstable and cantankerous. A couple of friends used to run Me and were always complaining. Rather go for the Win98SE if you can find a copy - not the best, but still pretty workable. That way, you still have access to DOS which MS started to move further and further away from users accessing.

Also, last suggestion: make careful note of all hardware specs as best you can, and post questions here frequently. This is a community that really does support each other, but do yourself and the community a favour and do some initial legwork yourself first, like a search through the LDP and using http://www.google.com/linux - then ask. But I think you've been around the block enough times already to know that, right? :)
Hope your return to Linux works out better for you this time.
Good luck and keep us posted!!

Andy

[Snapafun]

RodNICE be Nice to Rod!

Yeah, I've been where you are now and it didn't feel good at all until I started to manage what I do with my time. If, like me you work days and cannot get to Linux other than in your own time them you MUST set one task to complete and then do that until it is complete.

I ended with MandrakeLinux9.1 using KDE3.1 and if you have been following these threads here you might realise that both these version are subject to stable updates. When I first started I would attempt updating immediately [ the latest and greatest I suppose ] instead of sorting out what I had already.

The satisfaction for me now is in completing something fully before moving on while in the meanwhile actually USING what I have to get those things done that had me looking for a better Operating Systems in the first place.

And for those that rubbish stuff like WinMe then don't be put off, I dual boot with WinMe [slimest possible] because that is all I own and I have no wish whaysoever at going WinXP - the trip wire that set me off looking for alternatives in the first place.

There are a lot of Windows propriety software [third party] in the business world still [in my case the likes of SigmaNEST for profile cutting and SmartCAM milling machines and others,] that require you to have access to some sort of Windows OS and WinMe does it for me right now.

Maybe one day I'll install Wine and configure something to make those programs work with Linux but for right now I just enjoy not being BSOD or having to reboot each time I configure something.

One thing at a time RodNICE, one thing at a time.

As others have said, start enjoying yourself and relax. Take it for someone who took to long realising this and ended up wasting a couple of months pulling hair. I am able to take time and compile this to this thread because I have completed my Linux task for tonight so now I can enjoy actually using Linux.

[sasKuatch]

Really great to see people helping each other out.

Rod, have you tried http://www.linuxprinting.org/howto/

...it's really quite simple if you have an generic printer. I know Mandrake has a nice printer config program, and I bet RH should have one too.

[ions]

Well as of tomorrow I will have been using Linux for 2 weeks and I've still got my XP disks within arms reach. I've had the same problems for the majority of my Linux life. I do not think these problems are from not being used to the system. Others that are Linux users can't seem to solve the problems either.

I've got this problem using Bittorrent with Opera: http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23296&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I've got this problem with DrakGw http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106410
Link 2: http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=6322&highlight=reinstalling+mandrake

Not to mention the quirkiness of both KDE and Gnome, which could be down to inexperience with them http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=6271 , the cryptic way software is installed http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=6240 .

I'm willing to accept that partially these problem are occuring because of my train of thought and how I expect these things to work but when problems are not resolved using the ideas of those who are familiar with Linux...

[sasKuatch]

I think you are trying to do way to much. When you say you have XP at an arm's length, is it installed? or is it just on the shelf? If it's not installed, stop torturing yourself unecessarily, and do a dualboot.

I've been using linux for about 4 years now and I still have a dualboot. I'm an incurable game-a-holic.:D But if it comes down to it, I don't need windows. I think you are trying to ween yourself from it too soon. Two possiblities: 1) you will learn really fast and become a linux super-guru (don't bet on this), or 2) you will despise linux for being so diffucult (more likely).

Let me put it this way. The very fact that you are frustrated means that you are going at this too fast. You are way ahead of where I was in my second week of using linux.

If you need to get something set up in a hurry (job, etc), I would seriously suggest getting a book or taking a course. Tutorials and such never really cut it for me.

[ions]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
I think you are trying to do way to much. When you say you have XP at an arm's length, is it installed? or is it just on the shelf? If it's not installed, stop torturing yourself unecessarily, and do a dualboot.

I've been using linux for about 4 years now and I still have a dualboot. I'm an incurable game-a-holic.:D But if it comes down to it, I don't need windows. I think you are trying to ween yourself from it too soon. Two possiblities: 1) you will learn really fast and become a linux super-guru (don't bet on this), or 2) you will despise linux for being so diffucult (more likely).

Let me put it this way. The very fact that you are frustrated means that you are going at this too fast. You are way ahead of where I was in my second week of using linux.

If you need to get something set up in a hurry (job, etc), I would seriously suggest getting a book or taking a course. Tutorials and such never really cut it for me.

Much of what you say is true but documentation is part of the problem. I have been reading so many tutorials online that they're all beginning to mesh. I've been going to my local book shop and reading what they have. The problem is none of these resources are reacting in the way that they're supposed to. If someone gives me directions, or if I read them, there is always something different that needs to be done on my system. I don't know why but there always seems to be something. The other problem is the books at the book store are all for Red Hat. I'm using Mandrake. Debating switching to Red Hat just for the larger library of resources alone.

A dual boot machine was my first plan, unfortunately I made a grave amateurish error that cost me my XP install. At first it wasn't a big problem I had only lost a few docs and and emails. Considering what my PC needs are I really have no need for Windows specifically and I thought I'd tough it out. I have people dependent on my machine for ICS which is the biggest problem otherwise I would live with these issues for a longer term to make sure I'm not giving up prematurely. Other than these buggy sort of issues I am managing to use my machine for what I normally do so it's not really damaging my productivity too badly but it is testing my patience.

[michlt]

I agree -- hardware issues are by far the most frustrating for new users. I first loaded Linux as a dual boot OS on a laptop.

An excellent distro to start with is SuSE. It partitioned my hard drive, shoving Windows into a neat corner without bruising it, and started right up.
That was SuSE 8.0 home ed.

The initial euphoria soon turned to determined interest as I had to learn about this thing called Xwindows and how to get my USB mouse working, then how to get the scroll wheel working once the buttons did, then why a Winmodem would not work and why I needed to buy another, then how to configure it for my ISP, etc. etc.

It was not always "fun", but it was always very challenging in the best way, and I know so much more now as a not-so-new-but-still-learning newbie than I did when I decided to try Linux. I've picked up skills that I appreciate and am building on precisely because I needed to coax Linux into using my specific hardware.

I recently upgraded to SuSE 8.2, an excellent distribution, which is even better than 8.0. and just as easy to install. The hardware support in 8.2 is so much better than the earlier version and SuSE's configuration tools are a big help to newbies who may be very shy of using shells and command lines to tweak essential files right off the bat.

Admittedly, I fell back to the "dark" half of my harddrive to do productive work. Not any more. Now, I only use M$Windows to access specific programs that I'm fond of and that don't have Linux ports or alternatives --yet.

Hardware issues are definately the must frustrating, but they teach you a great deal. A good distro like SuSE helps to get over that hump.

--Michlt:)

[terribleRobbo]

Originally posted by ions
Considering what my PC needs are I really have no need for Windows specifically and I thought I'd tough it out. I have people dependent on my machine for ICS which is the biggest problem otherwise I would live with these issues for a longer term to make sure I'm not giving up prematurely.

PM me
( http://www.justlinux.com/forum/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=49941 ) and I'll show you how to do something called IP Masquerading, which basically performs the same function as ICS, except it's a tad more customisable.

I'll send you the complete script - you won't need to do anything except put it in the right place (details included, obviously :D ).

[sasKuatch]

Bloom's Taxonomy (http://www.coun.uvic.ca/learn/program/hndouts/bloom.html)

Please, please, please look at that link. It's not gonna' help you learn linux, but it's going to help you understand how you're doing.

You are still at the "Knowledge" phase of that chart. You know, but you don't know how to apply it to different circumstances, and I know how you feel. I went through that phase myself and it's horrible. "Why won't the @#$% thing do what it's supposed to like it says right here!!??!?!?" Later, when you understand how it works, you will be able to apply even Windows tutorials to Linux. Right now, stick with stuff for your distro, because that will get it working without interpretation.

And try to get a dualboot working within your convenience so you can take a break once in a while.

[Darkbolt]

Originally posted by terribleRobbo
PM me
( http://www.justlinux.com/forum/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=49941 ) and I'll show you how to do something called IP Masquerading, which basically performs the same function as ICS, except it's a tad more customisable.

I'll send you the complete script - you won't need to do anything except put it in the right place (details included, obviously :D ). If its the script you're talking about, its also available in the linux documentation project's (tldp.org) 'IP-Masquerading-HOW-TO' aswell as some more details on how to set it up :)

[terribleRobbo]

Well... I'm off the web at the moment (on my Linux box) due to doing a clean install, so sorry for the delay...

As soon as I get up on the web I'll send it to you. :(

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

BUMP!

[kedman]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
Bloom's Taxonomy (http://www.coun.uvic.ca/learn/program/hndouts/bloom.html)

Very nice link!
cheers
kedman

[ions]

Heh...I was doing a search for something and this thread came up and thought I'd post an update.

I ditched Linux and installed Windows :P... Kidding.

I've now been using Gentoo around a month I guess. I've learned heaps and can actually do a few things on my own. It's worth the effort but don't kid yourself there is an effort required. Lots of reading, patience, persistence and most important for me was useful help - from here and the just linux irc channel.

Since I've started I've been through Mandrake a couple times, Red Hat, SuSE, 1 failed Debian install attempt and finally Gentoo - after 3 install attempts. All worth the effort.

Now to go learn some more :D

[zoniguana]

find a small foot-print linux to put on an old beater POS of a laptop... P1 120MHz with 48MB RAM, I'll be set; thinking of trying Slackware, but not yet sure...

[hard candy]

Look on icewalkers (http://www.icewalkers.com/) at the different distros- they list some pretty small distros.

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by zoniguana
find a small foot-print linux to put on an old beater POS of a laptop... P1 120MHz with 48MB RAM, I'll be set; thinking of trying Slackware, but not yet sure...

Meh. You could easily install Slackware on that...

I put Slackware on a Compaq Armada, 486 processor, 8MB RAM, and a 270MB hard drive. If it'll run on my Armada, it will run on that P120.

[kmarogers]

I find myself stuck between 'newbie' & experienced-I don't want to D/L a precompiled version. But I get into what choices I need to make to D/L a bistro’s source & I get unfamiliar terms, like 'hardware platform'. i.e.: Is my AMD Pentium/x86 compatible? Anybody have an idea of how I can get past this plateau?? Like figuring this stuff out-but these terms & buzz words are "killin' me".

I have an AMD Athlon. None of my peripherals are new.

Maybe this info is out there somewhere-but I can't find it. Below is my hardware setup.


I have an AMD Athlon x1.8 w/ 500 Meg DDR mem

Bays for various o/s w/ 6 gig hard drives (I use one for Win XP, Win 2K & 2k server and one I want to load a Linux distr on)

60 gig hard drive 40 gig NTFS/20 gig DOS (for compatibility w/ win ME, etc)
80 gig hard drive NTFS main data HARD DRIVE
internal DVD/CD reader
USB DVD/CD RW/R

Video card
NVIDIA GeForce2 Ti

Sound card:
Phillips PSC605 PCI Card

My attempts to D/L Mandrake (because it is supposed to be easy-haven't worked well.

[H2O-linux]

my 2 cents for beginners!

This is the only link I came across for the basics on getting started.

For brand new linux users (http://www.linuxhelp.net/newbies/)

[deanrantala]

Ah.. this is an old thread...

My favorite site for linux n00bs is http://tldp.org , they havew lots of nice (easy to follow) howtos that keep the n00bie in mind.

And for those about to quite, give SuSE a spin. If you are new and trying RH or even mandy for the first time, SuSE solves a lot of the forst-time linux user problems that will be encountered.

Just my .02 :)

[sasKuatch]

kmarogers, I know how you feel. Yes, AMD is Intel compatible. Think of it this way: It has to be compatible, because in windows there is no distinction.

As for Mandrake, you need the x86, specifically the Pentium optimized version: 586. You know, you have the old 286's, then 386 which are the foundation for what we have today, then 486's, then Pentiums (586), then Pentium III/Celeron/Coppermine (686), etc.

[asklepios]

ah...this thread is a really nice thought. something that i once thought about..."quit"
my story cut short...
first i did not get my X running on MDK 9.1. after 4 re-installs i got only GNOME working but then i failed miserably in installing gaim and upgrading XINE on MDK 9.1. then i tried RedHat but i did not get my NIC working thus not having internet on it. i went to extreme and installed Slack 9 but could not get both soundcard as well as NIC working. i was so upset that i dropped idea of having Linux. it was hard for me to say quits so installed MDK once again and this time i some how hit a link that took me to urpmi --> http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/
things really changed as i had all the updated packages. i kept working and now i m a Happy Slacker (though still n00b at it) who loves to compiles rather than using packages :D
i would have really missed an ultimate experience. my only advice to anyone who is about to quit would be...DON'T. you will be really missing something here. here is another very good link for all the newbies out there
http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/index.html

[kmarogers]

Thanks for the replies. I'm "stickn' w/ it". I've been viewing the newbie lists & links everyone is posting. Soon I'll decide on a distro-then the fun will begin.

I kept reading the books on how easy it was to switch & thought I must be exceptionally dense, since my conversion wasn’t going so smooth. I’m glad to hear that others have had a rocky start too.

[habibbijan]

I tinkered with RedHat 8 for a few days, then went back to windows. Now, a good year later, I'm tinkering with Fedora. I was about to give up again until I discovered apt for Fedora. What a lifesaver!

The main thing that's been holding me back from going "windows-less" is lack of a serious music notation program. I'm a composer of music, and until recently have been using Finale on windows. Now I use a Mac with OSX for my composition and other audio needs, and use Linux on my PC as my main workstation. It's nice to breath the fresh air and know that all of my OSes are based on the solid structure of UNIX.

Learning Linux has been an uphill battle for me, mostly unwiring my mind from a windows perspective. Now that I look back, it just does not seems intuitive to have a "C" drive!

Finding these forums has been great, because I know I will benefit, and will perhaps help a person or two in the process. Having these forums will also motivate me to keep struggling and learning. This time, I will stop tinkering and actually learn Linux!

[terribleRobbo]

habibbijan:

http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/soundapps.html#SECTION000321100000000000000

Go up a few levels, if you have Redhat, and install apt-rpm, and the ccrma kernel (if you're up to it) for low-latency with sound, among other things.

Have fun. :D

[ninadb]

Hi
Great to see there are so many users supporting linux. I have been a linux crazy fan from June 2000. I used mulinux as my first distro and am using slackware 8.0 now
So do not be discouraged and the more you fall into problems the more you will learn. Linux is such that it will always enlighten you in different ways and you will have the do-it-yourself attitude not like the dumb windows install

Keep going all u fans

Thanks
Ninad

[madcompnerd]

Linux is worth all the pains in the butt because for all the configuring you have to do to make things work, you can configure things to be exactly as you want them.