MrNewbie
10-07-2000, 09:19 PM
I wanna be a programmer but I dont know how much they get paid. Is it alot?
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Mr Newbie
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Mr Newbie
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kmj
10-07-2000, 09:40 PM
Depends on a number of factors; where (geographically) you work, who you work for, what kind of programming you do, what level of degree (AS, BS, MS, Ph.D), and how good you do it, among other things. That said, any decent programmer should not have much to worry about. If you know what you're doing and know how to do it right, you'll be wanted, and that translates into better offers. Gotta remember though that Bill Gates didn't get where he is today by being a good programmer; if cash is your goal, then business is your path.
I'm sure there's some resource that can give hard and fast statistics, though I wouldn't be sure they're tremendously reliable.
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I'm sure there's some resource that can give hard and fast statistics, though I wouldn't be sure they're tremendously reliable.
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Dru Lee Parsec
10-07-2000, 10:47 PM
I started out in the software QA department making $13 an hour (about $26K/year) BTW, These are all San Diego prices. YMMV.
I worked 10 hours a day and 6 hours every other saturday. Partly by my own skill and hard work and partly because people above me kept moving to other companies I wound up being the QA department manager. A lofty title for the guy who collected the time cards. But it got me up to $32K.
I moved to another company and started at $41K as the QA Manager. The title "Manager" was kind of funny since I was the only one in the QA department. Being only one person (in a company of only 12) I learned to write automated test programs using a product called QA Partner by Seque Software. I became quite good at writing test plans and then automating them. People began to notice that I could write code. That company (BGM) was absorbed by a company called NDS. I kept getting the corporate raises of 5 to 7% every year. After a year in QA I applied for a job in the programming department and (eventually) got it.
As a new programmer I wound up writing the installation program and doing bug fixes. After a total of 4 years with BGM/NDS I left to go to yet another TLA company (TLA = Three Letter Acronym) where I asked for $60K and got $58K I worked for them for 8 months and realized that I was a much better programmer than NDS would admit. I realized that I was underpaid for my talent and I wasn't really happy with the government projects I was working on.
I moved again and this time I told tham that I would take any offer the put on the table as long as it started with a 7. I got it.
I also consult at $75/ hour but that work is few and far between. Besides, I work a full time job alread so adding in consulting work really takes a lot out of your personal time.
I think I'm just about right for a Java programmer with 3 years of QA and 6 years of programming experience. I've been doing Java exclusively for just over 3 years now and I think there are more and more Java jobs every year.
My wages will go up more slowly now, but I don't think it's out of line to think that within 5 years I should be getting a salary of at least 100K/year. The most important thing is to stay on top of the new technologies. I know people who have been programming COLBOL for 20 years and are only making in the mid to upper 40's, maybe to the low $50s.
Go to school and get that degree, even if it doesn't teach you anything you need in the real world (and they usually don't). But it will get you in the door. Then, for the rest of your career start studying the topics that will keep you in demand. And study tham as hard as if you were still in school. You'll probably raise through the ranks faster than I did.
One more thing: Motivational guru Tom Peters says that if you spend 15 minutes a day, every day, doing something that makes you better at your job then within a year you will be within the top 10% of the people who do your job. That may or may not be totally true, but the point is clear, once you're out of school keep studying.
I worked 10 hours a day and 6 hours every other saturday. Partly by my own skill and hard work and partly because people above me kept moving to other companies I wound up being the QA department manager. A lofty title for the guy who collected the time cards. But it got me up to $32K.
I moved to another company and started at $41K as the QA Manager. The title "Manager" was kind of funny since I was the only one in the QA department. Being only one person (in a company of only 12) I learned to write automated test programs using a product called QA Partner by Seque Software. I became quite good at writing test plans and then automating them. People began to notice that I could write code. That company (BGM) was absorbed by a company called NDS. I kept getting the corporate raises of 5 to 7% every year. After a year in QA I applied for a job in the programming department and (eventually) got it.
As a new programmer I wound up writing the installation program and doing bug fixes. After a total of 4 years with BGM/NDS I left to go to yet another TLA company (TLA = Three Letter Acronym) where I asked for $60K and got $58K I worked for them for 8 months and realized that I was a much better programmer than NDS would admit. I realized that I was underpaid for my talent and I wasn't really happy with the government projects I was working on.
I moved again and this time I told tham that I would take any offer the put on the table as long as it started with a 7. I got it.
I also consult at $75/ hour but that work is few and far between. Besides, I work a full time job alread so adding in consulting work really takes a lot out of your personal time.
I think I'm just about right for a Java programmer with 3 years of QA and 6 years of programming experience. I've been doing Java exclusively for just over 3 years now and I think there are more and more Java jobs every year.
My wages will go up more slowly now, but I don't think it's out of line to think that within 5 years I should be getting a salary of at least 100K/year. The most important thing is to stay on top of the new technologies. I know people who have been programming COLBOL for 20 years and are only making in the mid to upper 40's, maybe to the low $50s.
Go to school and get that degree, even if it doesn't teach you anything you need in the real world (and they usually don't). But it will get you in the door. Then, for the rest of your career start studying the topics that will keep you in demand. And study tham as hard as if you were still in school. You'll probably raise through the ranks faster than I did.
One more thing: Motivational guru Tom Peters says that if you spend 15 minutes a day, every day, doing something that makes you better at your job then within a year you will be within the top 10% of the people who do your job. That may or may not be totally true, but the point is clear, once you're out of school keep studying.
pbharris
10-07-2000, 10:56 PM
get that freaking technical degree (BS), like the last guy pointed out it may not mean much much but it is prerequisite. i know more than one moron with a degree making truckloads of cash. and i know some real bright guys w/o an degree who should be making more than the otehr guys. the brightest guys i know do have a degree so i do think it makes a difference, but how much i don't know.
speck
10-08-2000, 02:03 AM
At least in Northern California, right out of college with a BS should get somewhere between 45-55. Senior level, which can sometimes be achieved within a few years, starts on the low side around 65. Most senior programmers that I know make between 80 and 95.
Speck
Speck
iDxMan
10-08-2000, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by pbharris:
get that freaking technical degree (BS), like the last guy pointed out it may not mean much much but it is prerequisite. i know more than one moron with a degree making truckloads of cash. and i know some real bright guys w/o an degree who should be making more than the otehr guys. the brightest guys i know do have a degree so i do think it makes a difference, but how much i don't know.
That's where my vote is.. Get something, anything. It'll help. If you find a company with a brain (which is rare), they can see your talent and wont worry much about the crust you put after your name. << which is mostly bs anyways.
Currently, I'm getting paid $hit, but as usual know more than any of them. Ok, except for that old-school unix nerd. I should be making at least 2x-3x what I am now, but my time will come..
Oh and yes.. You'll find many morons making a load of cash since they have a degree and can create a (buzzword warning) "project plan". [ooohhhhh]
... I better stop here before I reach for the soapbox....
-r
get that freaking technical degree (BS), like the last guy pointed out it may not mean much much but it is prerequisite. i know more than one moron with a degree making truckloads of cash. and i know some real bright guys w/o an degree who should be making more than the otehr guys. the brightest guys i know do have a degree so i do think it makes a difference, but how much i don't know.
That's where my vote is.. Get something, anything. It'll help. If you find a company with a brain (which is rare), they can see your talent and wont worry much about the crust you put after your name. << which is mostly bs anyways.
Currently, I'm getting paid $hit, but as usual know more than any of them. Ok, except for that old-school unix nerd. I should be making at least 2x-3x what I am now, but my time will come..
Oh and yes.. You'll find many morons making a load of cash since they have a degree and can create a (buzzword warning) "project plan". [ooohhhhh]
... I better stop here before I reach for the soapbox....
-r
jemfinch
10-08-2000, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Dru Lee Parsec:
I moved again and this time I told tham that I would take any offer the put on the table as long as it started with a 7. I got it.
"I looked at the slip they passed me...$7.00/hr. After a second, I said, 'Maybe I was a bit unclear...'"
Sorry, couldn't pass it up http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
As a note, I'm a programmer and I make about $10-12/hr bussing tables. Not all programmers get paid to program http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
Jeremy
[This message has been edited by jemfinch (edited 08 October 2000).]
I moved again and this time I told tham that I would take any offer the put on the table as long as it started with a 7. I got it.
"I looked at the slip they passed me...$7.00/hr. After a second, I said, 'Maybe I was a bit unclear...'"
Sorry, couldn't pass it up http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
As a note, I'm a programmer and I make about $10-12/hr bussing tables. Not all programmers get paid to program http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
Jeremy
[This message has been edited by jemfinch (edited 08 October 2000).]
Sweede
10-08-2000, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by Dru Lee Parsec:
I started out in the software QA department making $13 an hour (about $26K/year) BTW, These are all San Diego prices.
the McDonalds Drive-through window in Joliet, IL, get an average of 18$ an hour..
but then, they've had like, 10 drive-through shootings in the past year or so...
I started out in the software QA department making $13 an hour (about $26K/year) BTW, These are all San Diego prices.
the McDonalds Drive-through window in Joliet, IL, get an average of 18$ an hour..
but then, they've had like, 10 drive-through shootings in the past year or so...
kmj
10-08-2000, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Sweede:
the McDonalds Drive-through window in Joliet, IL, get an average of 18$ an hour..
but then, they've had like, 10 drive-through shootings in the past year or so...
LOL; I'd do it. Just don't forget your bulletproof vest.
I've heard of drive-by shootings, but drive-throughs? lol! http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
the McDonalds Drive-through window in Joliet, IL, get an average of 18$ an hour..
but then, they've had like, 10 drive-through shootings in the past year or so...
LOL; I'd do it. Just don't forget your bulletproof vest.
I've heard of drive-by shootings, but drive-throughs? lol! http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
Ethan
10-08-2000, 01:51 PM
I want to say first off that I'm not trying to contradict or refute what was said before. But I just want to mention stuff I've heard elsewhere and get peoples' reactions to it. I, personally, have not made my mind up on this school issue, so please don't hurl rocks.
I have been thinking about going back to school for a second B.A. in CS or software engineering. (I have one now in English Literature) I talked to a couple programmers about it and they said I shouldn't do it. One, the instructor of my Intro to Java course, said the time to make money at this is now. Three or four years from now, who knows where the economy will be. And Java is really hot right now, but it won't be forever, so one should grab the opportunity while it exists, not hang out in a school program for 3-4 years.
The other guy I talked to is a self-taught programmer. He's been doing it for a long time and has been pretty successful. He agreed with the first guy, and said that people in the industry are starting to put less weight on degrees.
Although I kind of want to go back to school, just because I like school, I found the first guy's argument very compelling.
I'm curious to know peoples' reactions to the above.
Ethan
I have been thinking about going back to school for a second B.A. in CS or software engineering. (I have one now in English Literature) I talked to a couple programmers about it and they said I shouldn't do it. One, the instructor of my Intro to Java course, said the time to make money at this is now. Three or four years from now, who knows where the economy will be. And Java is really hot right now, but it won't be forever, so one should grab the opportunity while it exists, not hang out in a school program for 3-4 years.
The other guy I talked to is a self-taught programmer. He's been doing it for a long time and has been pretty successful. He agreed with the first guy, and said that people in the industry are starting to put less weight on degrees.
Although I kind of want to go back to school, just because I like school, I found the first guy's argument very compelling.
I'm curious to know peoples' reactions to the above.
Ethan
iDxMan
10-08-2000, 07:03 PM
Although I kind of want to go back to school, just because I like school, I found the first guy's argument very compelling. I'm curious to know peoples' reactions to the above.
Although, in my above post, I did say that getting a degree is probably a "good" idea, its not what I'm currently doing. Perhaps I should follow my own advice..
In any case both are good arguments, but there are several factors ..
.) How much can you teach yourself?
.) How much does the degree mean to you?
.) Do you believe its going to get you farther up the chain faster as opposed to the "experience & self-taught" method?
Most people I see graduating with a "X" degree (CS/MIS - whatever) are nowhere close to being productive (at least in my type of job), nor know as much. Must be from that ingrained "click here on the M$ button - and poofie, you have email".
Some guys I work with suggested to just forget the formal education (as you mentioned) and focus on the certifications that are hot right now.
Just depends on what fence you want to jump.
-r
Although, in my above post, I did say that getting a degree is probably a "good" idea, its not what I'm currently doing. Perhaps I should follow my own advice..
In any case both are good arguments, but there are several factors ..
.) How much can you teach yourself?
.) How much does the degree mean to you?
.) Do you believe its going to get you farther up the chain faster as opposed to the "experience & self-taught" method?
Most people I see graduating with a "X" degree (CS/MIS - whatever) are nowhere close to being productive (at least in my type of job), nor know as much. Must be from that ingrained "click here on the M$ button - and poofie, you have email".
Some guys I work with suggested to just forget the formal education (as you mentioned) and focus on the certifications that are hot right now.
Just depends on what fence you want to jump.
-r
pdc
10-09-2000, 02:39 AM
A degree is a good thing, best acquired before children and responsiblity. As to pay, 55k right out of school and 75K with 2 years experience in my area.
Paul
Paul
MrNewbie
10-09-2000, 02:27 PM
Thanks! I definitly want to be a programmer now. But I saw on tv that the average Microsoft programmer gets $220,000 and I know a lot of you think Microsoft is evil but that pay sounds real good! So I'd really wanna work there. By the way, how much is American tax?
Thanks a lot.
Mr Newbie
Thanks a lot.
Mr Newbie
klamath
10-09-2000, 02:43 PM
I saw on tv that the average Microsoft programmer gets $220,000
LOL - do you mean a Windows programmer, or a programming working for Microsoft?
Java is really hot right now, but it won't be forever, so one should grab the opportunity while it exists, not hang out in a school program for 3-4 years.
I personally would never be interested in programming if I thought that it would only be 'hot' for 3 or 4 more years. Besides, so what? If you take a job now, work for 3 years and then the industry dies, where will you be? You're still screwed.
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- Klamath
Get my GnuPG Key Here (http://klamath.dyndns.org/mykey.asc)
LOL - do you mean a Windows programmer, or a programming working for Microsoft?
Java is really hot right now, but it won't be forever, so one should grab the opportunity while it exists, not hang out in a school program for 3-4 years.
I personally would never be interested in programming if I thought that it would only be 'hot' for 3 or 4 more years. Besides, so what? If you take a job now, work for 3 years and then the industry dies, where will you be? You're still screwed.
------------------
- Klamath
Get my GnuPG Key Here (http://klamath.dyndns.org/mykey.asc)
toolie
10-09-2000, 04:21 PM
Wages depend a LOT on how good you are at what you do. I know a kid who skipped college and just went right to work. He's 23 and makes $125k/yr. That's in Arizona, fairly low cost of living.
I'm not a programmer by training, I just kinda picked it up. I've been out of school for 2 years, and in the past 3 months have had offers for $75k/yr and most recently (like last Friday) I was offered $65k/yr + $7k signing bonus + choice of positions/departments. I'm still at my regular job, only at $55k/yr because I love it too damn much (way killer toys).
Code slingers can make some money. DBA's make even more money. Remember, it isn't the money though, if you are miserable doing what you do, no amount of money in the world will make up for it.
I'm not a programmer by training, I just kinda picked it up. I've been out of school for 2 years, and in the past 3 months have had offers for $75k/yr and most recently (like last Friday) I was offered $65k/yr + $7k signing bonus + choice of positions/departments. I'm still at my regular job, only at $55k/yr because I love it too damn much (way killer toys).
Code slingers can make some money. DBA's make even more money. Remember, it isn't the money though, if you are miserable doing what you do, no amount of money in the world will make up for it.
pointreyes
10-09-2000, 05:11 PM
I hope a college degree is not required because I'm seriously thinking about going into programming or DBA.
I have 15 years of database design and programming. From dBase III Plus to SQL Server 7.0. I am currently teaching myself Oracle and dabble in db2.
I have been told by many people that I'm the type of programmer they need because I have common business sense. I can tell the customer what they want and what they did not realize they wanted because my business skills is based on a huge amount of programming and accounting experience. No degree but every application I create causes a smile on the customer's face because they never realized that a product could be so good. Problem: location. Most jobs are government which I currently hold and to obtain a tech position is hard because techs HATE (I mean really HATE) accountants that program. This makes is hard to get a job in government in the tech area when you are already an accountant. Would I make more money? Yep.
I have 15 years of database design and programming. From dBase III Plus to SQL Server 7.0. I am currently teaching myself Oracle and dabble in db2.
I have been told by many people that I'm the type of programmer they need because I have common business sense. I can tell the customer what they want and what they did not realize they wanted because my business skills is based on a huge amount of programming and accounting experience. No degree but every application I create causes a smile on the customer's face because they never realized that a product could be so good. Problem: location. Most jobs are government which I currently hold and to obtain a tech position is hard because techs HATE (I mean really HATE) accountants that program. This makes is hard to get a job in government in the tech area when you are already an accountant. Would I make more money? Yep.
pdc
10-10-2000, 02:17 AM
Mr PointReyes,
Accounting is a good background for programming. Especially if you are writing programs that utilize your accounting knowledge. I don't think the folks at Intuit coded up Quicken without using some accountant/programmers.
If you have a Linux system, you are in business. You got your apache server, free DB engines, perl with DBI and a leg up on the MS ODBC weenies. You can commit your work when everything is hunky-dory, according to your own standards.
Paul
Accounting is a good background for programming. Especially if you are writing programs that utilize your accounting knowledge. I don't think the folks at Intuit coded up Quicken without using some accountant/programmers.
If you have a Linux system, you are in business. You got your apache server, free DB engines, perl with DBI and a leg up on the MS ODBC weenies. You can commit your work when everything is hunky-dory, according to your own standards.
Paul
nanode
10-10-2000, 05:55 PM
I find this thread personally validating.
I just graduated w/ a BS in bus. admin last May. Now I'm working as a developer for a large software company. I didn't start with a huge salary, but my projects have a lot of exposure.
In my case, most companies wanted me to start as a field consultant or technical sales. From the professional programming experience I'd had, I knew that a clueless, non-technical manager is very frustrating to developers - and I did not want to become one.
I'm by no means doing badly w/ my income, but I rationalized accepting less $ for the opportunity. I figure a year or two here, then I can pretty much do whatever, and get paid accordingly.
In the mean time, I enjoy flexible hours, wearing blue jeans to work and have a very cool boss.
I just graduated w/ a BS in bus. admin last May. Now I'm working as a developer for a large software company. I didn't start with a huge salary, but my projects have a lot of exposure.
In my case, most companies wanted me to start as a field consultant or technical sales. From the professional programming experience I'd had, I knew that a clueless, non-technical manager is very frustrating to developers - and I did not want to become one.
I'm by no means doing badly w/ my income, but I rationalized accepting less $ for the opportunity. I figure a year or two here, then I can pretty much do whatever, and get paid accordingly.
In the mean time, I enjoy flexible hours, wearing blue jeans to work and have a very cool boss.
Lucefiel
10-10-2000, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Dru Lee Parsec:
Go to school and get that degree, even if it doesn't teach you anything you need in the real world (and they usually don't). But it will get you in the door. Then, for the rest of your career start studying the topics that will keep you in demand. And study tham as hard as if you were still in school. You'll probably raise through the ranks faster than I did.
I sincerely hope you're wrong because, even though I will be going to college for 3-4 years (I'm in year 2 now) I'm not going to be getting any kind of degree. At least not yet. I will, however, have my CNE (hopefully CIA) and my second MCP (is that possible?) by the end of this year, and will get my MCSE and CCNA by the end of next year... If they've added Advanced NDS Diagnostics and Troubleshooting (and the other classes) by then I'll go for my CDE.
But no BS for me! http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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May the best of your past be the worst of your future.
Go to school and get that degree, even if it doesn't teach you anything you need in the real world (and they usually don't). But it will get you in the door. Then, for the rest of your career start studying the topics that will keep you in demand. And study tham as hard as if you were still in school. You'll probably raise through the ranks faster than I did.
I sincerely hope you're wrong because, even though I will be going to college for 3-4 years (I'm in year 2 now) I'm not going to be getting any kind of degree. At least not yet. I will, however, have my CNE (hopefully CIA) and my second MCP (is that possible?) by the end of this year, and will get my MCSE and CCNA by the end of next year... If they've added Advanced NDS Diagnostics and Troubleshooting (and the other classes) by then I'll go for my CDE.
But no BS for me! http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
------------------
May the best of your past be the worst of your future.
nanode
10-11-2000, 02:32 PM
A coworker of mine has a bumper sticker in his cube, "Certification doesn't make you smarter than me."
I fully agree with that and what Dru Lee said about *needing* the BS.
Personally I learned a lot from going to college. I didn't learn very much technical stuff in the classroom, but I made friends and got exposed to many things. I never would have gotten into Linux if I hadn't met people and shared ideas during that time.
I don't mean to judge people who don't follow this path, but I feel very strongly that it was a positive thing for myself and many other people.
Some people let the ends justify the means, others let the means justify the ends.
I fully agree with that and what Dru Lee said about *needing* the BS.
Personally I learned a lot from going to college. I didn't learn very much technical stuff in the classroom, but I made friends and got exposed to many things. I never would have gotten into Linux if I hadn't met people and shared ideas during that time.
I don't mean to judge people who don't follow this path, but I feel very strongly that it was a positive thing for myself and many other people.
Some people let the ends justify the means, others let the means justify the ends.
njcajun
10-12-2000, 10:03 PM
I think there's something fundamental we're missing here...
If ALL you do is write code, you aren't going to realize your full earning potential as a programmer. You're going to be locked in a back room somewhere with a bunch of smelly geeks who do nothing but write code.
The top paid programmers are ones that have other skills that lend to an overall understanding of the technology universe. Yes, Java Programmers make a lot of money, but if you have done some database administration and can code Java in the database, you could be HUGE. Or if know how to program in C++ and also know UNIX administration or network programming, you could also be pretty HUGE. What else can you do? Architecture? Application partitioning? Middleware?
I don't have a degree. I have worked as a DBA/SA for Sybase, and have done Java programming as well. I'm now moving to a company where my main job is doing UNIX administration, even though I've never really done that (primarily) before. The reason is that the company does sys/network integration, and I've worked with a lot of different software and environments, and I have a bit of a knack for troubleshooting. I only touched a computer for the first time in August of '98, and I'll earn over 80k over the next 12 months, and I live in NJ! It's a consulting firm, so I'll probably be taking the 1hr. commute into the city for a lot of the clients.
The point is, in NYC, a Java programmer averages close to 70k. A Java/Database guy gets you up to 90 with over 1 year experience in Java/db. 6 figure salaries are out there, but you need to keep at it and constantly be working and improving and continuing your training to stay on top. 175k is certainly not out of the question in my area, but usually it's for a very specific 'niche' job - not a general programmer.
------------------
...meanwhile, I remain...
...The RedHatted Stepchild...
If ALL you do is write code, you aren't going to realize your full earning potential as a programmer. You're going to be locked in a back room somewhere with a bunch of smelly geeks who do nothing but write code.
The top paid programmers are ones that have other skills that lend to an overall understanding of the technology universe. Yes, Java Programmers make a lot of money, but if you have done some database administration and can code Java in the database, you could be HUGE. Or if know how to program in C++ and also know UNIX administration or network programming, you could also be pretty HUGE. What else can you do? Architecture? Application partitioning? Middleware?
I don't have a degree. I have worked as a DBA/SA for Sybase, and have done Java programming as well. I'm now moving to a company where my main job is doing UNIX administration, even though I've never really done that (primarily) before. The reason is that the company does sys/network integration, and I've worked with a lot of different software and environments, and I have a bit of a knack for troubleshooting. I only touched a computer for the first time in August of '98, and I'll earn over 80k over the next 12 months, and I live in NJ! It's a consulting firm, so I'll probably be taking the 1hr. commute into the city for a lot of the clients.
The point is, in NYC, a Java programmer averages close to 70k. A Java/Database guy gets you up to 90 with over 1 year experience in Java/db. 6 figure salaries are out there, but you need to keep at it and constantly be working and improving and continuing your training to stay on top. 175k is certainly not out of the question in my area, but usually it's for a very specific 'niche' job - not a general programmer.
------------------
...meanwhile, I remain...
...The RedHatted Stepchild...
Mazarin
10-15-2000, 05:27 PM
I'm a junior in high school, college is coming up pretty soon. I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother with it. I've been running linux for about a year, know several programming languages, I don't go a day without learning something new and I hope I never do. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
I hear so many success stories from people who didn't even go to college, but then others say that the little slip of paper you get is priceless.
[This message has been edited by Mazarin (edited 15 October 2000).]
I hear so many success stories from people who didn't even go to college, but then others say that the little slip of paper you get is priceless.
[This message has been edited by Mazarin (edited 15 October 2000).]
error27
10-15-2000, 10:52 PM
>You're going to be locked in a back room somewhere with a bunch of smelly geeks who do nothing but write code.
Oddly enough that idea sounds fairly good to me right now. So long as the other guys are good and the product is a qualitie product.
I'm getting my CS degree right now. After this semester I'll have about 20 credits left before I graduate. (But it will end up taking 3 semesters because of the way that the classes are offered.
There are _no_ tech businesses in northern MN where I live so I think I'll move to California as soon as I graduate. (My brother lives there too). Up here there is no one who's going to hire you to do computer stuff. So it's impossible to get a computer job straight out of high school.
I would say that most CS major do not end up programming for a living. There are so many other things you can do with a computer science degree. But most of all I want to be a programmer and a darn good one.
Oddly enough that idea sounds fairly good to me right now. So long as the other guys are good and the product is a qualitie product.
I'm getting my CS degree right now. After this semester I'll have about 20 credits left before I graduate. (But it will end up taking 3 semesters because of the way that the classes are offered.
There are _no_ tech businesses in northern MN where I live so I think I'll move to California as soon as I graduate. (My brother lives there too). Up here there is no one who's going to hire you to do computer stuff. So it's impossible to get a computer job straight out of high school.
I would say that most CS major do not end up programming for a living. There are so many other things you can do with a computer science degree. But most of all I want to be a programmer and a darn good one.
ccm13
10-17-2000, 12:49 AM
Lots of interesting points of view. Even though I didn't start the topic, it is an interesting one. My thanx out there to all who contributed.
I'm going back to school now to get an ***. in CIS right now. In the ball park of 30 and wondering what to do next, school, work combo? I don't really like programming to much (although I think Perl is cool for what it is) but am really interested in Networking & Security.
------------------
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CCM13
I'm going back to school now to get an ***. in CIS right now. In the ball park of 30 and wondering what to do next, school, work combo? I don't really like programming to much (although I think Perl is cool for what it is) but am really interested in Networking & Security.
------------------
"You miss 100% of the shots you never take" (Wayne Gretzky)
To contact: Remove "nixspam_" from email address.
CCM13
Garett
10-17-2000, 12:58 AM
Damn... 18/hour for McD's? Dang... why the heck am I working for USR when I could be making the cash doing what Sweede is doing.
Garett
Garett
Sensei
10-17-2000, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Mazarin:
I'm a junior in high school, college is coming up pretty soon. I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother with it. I've been running linux for about a year, know several programming languages, I don't go a day without learning something new and I hope I never do. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
I hear so many success stories from people who didn't even go to college, but then others say that the little slip of paper you get is priceless.
[This message has been edited by Mazarin (edited 15 October 2000).]
From a friend of mine who works for Oracle:
Larry Elison gave a speech at Princeton University recently to a graduating class. He said, "Congratulations, but you have all missed the boat. You should've dropped out 2-3 years ago.
Case and point; top 10 richest people in the world.
1) Bill Gates
2) Points to himself--that would be me (hes not the 3nd richest anymore (stock market))
3) Paul Allen
etc."
Makes you think? Makes you sway in your decision?
A degree doesn't depend on a persons success.
Success is in your hands not a University's. Just ask some of my friends who have degrees what they are using them for. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
1)lawyer--selling shoes
2)accountant--doing foreclosure real estate for someone else
3)CIS degree--trying to start up a biz/working at a sunglass hut
4)tv production--unemployed
It all depends on what you equate success too though. If we use getting a 80k per yr job as being successful then this is very attainable for someone in a short period of time. In the times we live in one does not need a degree to achieve that either in the programming field.
What that person would need is a dynamite resume with tremendous experience and be a programming stud.
One thing I learned from past jobs is don't sell yourself short if you know your good. Well in the beginning you need to take it in the arse. After that though don't sell yourself short. I took little pay to get out of a part time situation. I worked my *** off for this co. for underpaid position hoping I would get a monster move in my salary considering I was doing the role of a DBA and web designer/web developer/reshaping their business model and saving them potentially millions. Rewards are budgeted always remember that!!!!!
The best part of college or at least the best it will do for you is not the paper you receive at the end, but the experience that has helped you grow as a person.</profound statement>
------------------
Sensei
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I'm a junior in high school, college is coming up pretty soon. I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother with it. I've been running linux for about a year, know several programming languages, I don't go a day without learning something new and I hope I never do. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
I hear so many success stories from people who didn't even go to college, but then others say that the little slip of paper you get is priceless.
[This message has been edited by Mazarin (edited 15 October 2000).]
From a friend of mine who works for Oracle:
Larry Elison gave a speech at Princeton University recently to a graduating class. He said, "Congratulations, but you have all missed the boat. You should've dropped out 2-3 years ago.
Case and point; top 10 richest people in the world.
1) Bill Gates
2) Points to himself--that would be me (hes not the 3nd richest anymore (stock market))
3) Paul Allen
etc."
Makes you think? Makes you sway in your decision?
A degree doesn't depend on a persons success.
Success is in your hands not a University's. Just ask some of my friends who have degrees what they are using them for. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
1)lawyer--selling shoes
2)accountant--doing foreclosure real estate for someone else
3)CIS degree--trying to start up a biz/working at a sunglass hut
4)tv production--unemployed
It all depends on what you equate success too though. If we use getting a 80k per yr job as being successful then this is very attainable for someone in a short period of time. In the times we live in one does not need a degree to achieve that either in the programming field.
What that person would need is a dynamite resume with tremendous experience and be a programming stud.
One thing I learned from past jobs is don't sell yourself short if you know your good. Well in the beginning you need to take it in the arse. After that though don't sell yourself short. I took little pay to get out of a part time situation. I worked my *** off for this co. for underpaid position hoping I would get a monster move in my salary considering I was doing the role of a DBA and web designer/web developer/reshaping their business model and saving them potentially millions. Rewards are budgeted always remember that!!!!!
The best part of college or at least the best it will do for you is not the paper you receive at the end, but the experience that has helped you grow as a person.</profound statement>
------------------
Sensei
LNO Seti Black Belts Team Stats
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_11027.html
Join the Linuxnewbie.org SETI Black Belts!
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/cgi?cmd=team_join_form&id=11027
MrNewbie
10-17-2000, 01:52 AM
Damn! You people scared me, now I'm not 100% positive I can make a lot as a programmer http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/frown.gif
kmj
10-17-2000, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by MrNewbie:
Damn! You people scared me, now I'm not 100% positive I can make a lot as a programmer http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/frown.gif
There's never anything you can be 100% positive of. If you like it enough, you'll be good at it and you'll make plenty of money. But if money is your goal, go into business or something.
Damn! You people scared me, now I'm not 100% positive I can make a lot as a programmer http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/frown.gif
There's never anything you can be 100% positive of. If you like it enough, you'll be good at it and you'll make plenty of money. But if money is your goal, go into business or something.
toolie
10-17-2000, 12:06 PM
If money is your only motivation, you are going to have a lot of problems. Do something you love to do. Don't convince yourself that you love something just because of the money - be honest with yourself.
If you are not doing something you love, you are going to end up hating your job. That is one of the leading causes of depression. It goes downhill from there.
Money isn't everything - happiness is hella more important.
If you are not doing something you love, you are going to end up hating your job. That is one of the leading causes of depression. It goes downhill from there.
Money isn't everything - happiness is hella more important.
MrNewbie
10-17-2000, 03:29 PM
I do love programming, so far, its the only thing I really do like. But I still wanna make as much as possible.
MrNewbie
MrNewbie
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