The "Ease" of Linux usage

[jugalator]

I was always wondering why people like mandrake and redhat so much. I mean most of them liked it cause its easy to install.(correct me if I am wrong. But if I was wrong there is no point writing the rest of this tread.) I mean if it was me I would defintely choose debian or slakeware for a start because system administration for these distros for relatively harder and thus forces me to learn fast. That is what exactly happened to me. I very glad I started off with debian and not mandrake. I mean the whole point of someone starting to use linux is to learn all about it(system admin wise) as early as possible. Choosing some distro that has easy installation practiculy wipes out your first chance of really getting to know your system. I rather get stucked at debian installation for a week, then getting tons of problems the first time X starts and be miserable for the rest of my first month, than get mandrake 7.1 and having a smooth installation without knowing what the hell is going on.
I don't mean to offend anyone here or say mandrake or redhat or not good distros, just that I feel newbies should defitely start out with something more complicated rather than taking advantage of the "ease" of mandrake or redhat where most of the things are spoonfeed to you.

[Phreakee]

I am a red hat user, but I do agree with you. But on the other hand a lot of people will get frustrated and give up on Linux if it does not work the first few times. A lot of people especially the non uber-geeks don't want to have to be up to their ears in config files and vi This is where a distro like mandrake fits in. You can click about 5 times and you are running Linux, and there are nice GUI apps to administer a system. Let's just say that it lessens the learning curve and build confidence in newbies.

I think all of the distros are great! I love choice and that is what Linux gives me. I can do things via a GUI or the much prefered CLI.

Well that is my opinion.

[turdball2k]

"Get used to disappointment."
- The Dread Pirate Roberts

As much as I understand where you are coming from (and somewhat agree), this is your opinion. I, on the other hand, want to USE my computer. Yes, I love Linux, and I want to learn everything about it, and I AM learning as much as I can... BUT - too much of my life (work and playtime) consists of USING my computer, not going thru a month's worth of (possible) hell trying to figure out how to use the damn thing. I've still got a lot of learning to do - and it will get done. If it weren't for Mandrake, I would have never switched to Linux. Period. And as much as you probably hate it, this is how it's going to be for quite a few people to come. I may not be as hardcore as the 'real' Linux users, but I am just as much a Linux user as anyone else. This is what I don't understand about a lot of Linux users out there (pardon the generalization). You don't have to be a geek to use it. Does the fact that I no longer use Windows on my computer (not even at work anymore) not count for anything? I would not have made it to where I am if it weren't for those 2 distros that you talk about.

We all want more support for Linux, yet a lot of 'us' ***** when we actually start heading in a direction that will bring that to us.

Linux is Linux. What's the big deal?

Just my slightly irritated two cents.
geo

[Iceman]

Hi:

I'm happy to see this is not looking like a flame war.

Many people like MDK and RH because they ARE easy--especially for a newbie. And keep in mind that not everyone wants to know the guts of the OS--many are simply tired of MS and it's problems. For them, something like MDK serves a real purpose--they can install it easily enough and use it without spending hours reading manuals and editing config files. You and I may enjoy that and the learning experience that goes with it, but not all do.

I've not even looked at Corel, but I'm told it's the easiest of all for newbies, very Windowesque.

What I find most interesting is this: I do a good bit of probono tech support for Senior citizens. Once I've helped them through the initial install and net connection stuff, I don't hear back from them much. With the Win 98 users it's quite the opposite. And btw, now that they've gotten used to the OS through the GUI, 4 or 5 of the 70 yr. plus guys I help are slowly moving to the command line. They find it fascinating and want to learn. But they have the time. Someone who was a busy professional with a few kids simply might not have the time.

Nice thing is I can use MDK and do anything one can with nearly any other distro. I use the cli unless doing graphics or going to websites that require same.

I guess my point is that just because something is easy doesn't make it bad.
The average person wants to turn on the PC and get to email etc.

I like parts of many different distros, but MDK comes closest to meeting all my needs. Sure wish it had something like apt-get, though.

And I'd like to say again--I'm not touting one distro over another. I'm now running BSD, MDK 7.1, QNX, Solaris 8, RH 5.1, RH 6.1, BeOS and a few others (not all on the same box, of course.)

Am also running Mac osX Server, NT 4.0 Server, Win 95, 98, W2K and Whistler.


Whatever floats yuor boat.

[jugalator]

perharps its my mistake to not state clearly which group of people i am targetting. It usually people who has lotsa time,(like me) got tired of windows, want to learn linux, but choose the easy way out and then claimed they know linux. I think thats the group of people I am talking about

[demetrius]

Why would you want to 'target' anyone? We're all using Linux to meet our own particular needs. As I see it one of the greatest strengths of Linux is that there are many different flavors to suit many different needs. I, personally am quite new to Linux and started with RedHat and now use Mandrake. I want to learn as much as I can about Linux in general but also wanted a distribution that would be easy to set up and use. Now that I have it set up and configured to my liking I am trying to learn what makes it work and what it would take to configure a distribution that doesn't set most things up for you. As far as I'm concerned the beauty of distributions like Mandrake and RedHat is that all the config files are there and editable ... you can see what you would need to edit to get things working should something go wrong or if you later decided to switch to a distro like Debian or Slackware that requires more knowledge about the OS to get working.
I certainly dont claim to know about much Linux, but I am learning. And from what I have learned thus far I think I know enough to say that it is all Linux and as long as the end user gets what they need from the distribution that they choose at least it is keeping Bill Gates from getting even richer than he already is. Linux, as far as I am concerned, is a viable alternative to Windows. One which I hope will someday dethrone the Microsoft machine from the monopoly it has become.

Tom

[MrPiolo]

There is something similar to apt-get in rpm based distros. It's callen urpmi.
Give it a try.

[Goughmezz]

http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif SuSE http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Goughmezz (edited 08 November 2000).]

[hndpaul]

I think you have some good points there, but then if it wasn't for the ease of installation (primarily) I would never have bought Linux in the first place! I started with Caldera and dual-booted with 'doze, and that set me off on an exploration into all things Linux.

I also happen to think that if you are to make Linux appeal to corporates for servers and desktop systems, you should do so NOT by making the present support staff have to sit for over a week figuring out how to make that X server work right! Businesses need the stability of Linux and the intitial ease of installation of an NT machine. At this time Linux fits this bill nicely.

If it's your preference to start your Linux journey in such a away, then good luck to you. A majority of users though would like to start playing around with the OS as soon as its installed, and it is this post-installation experience that really hooks people to Linux; growth and learning come later :-)

Paul, UK

[fuzzy]

Originally posted by MrPiolo:
There is something similar to apt-get in rpm based distros. It's callen urpmi.
Give it a try.

That was mentioned to me last week (I am a truely devoted debian user) and, on a spare partition, installed mandrake 7.1. I messed with this urpmi and, really, it's sort of in the general vicinity of what apt-get does but it really hasn't performed anywhere near as well and thoroughly (or smoothly) as apt. It just isn't the same thing. And as pointed out to me last week, .debs and apt-get were designed from the beginning to work the way they do... .rpms were not. And it shows.

------------------
I spy with my little eye something that begins with "W"... oops, it's gone now.

[elinor]

Mandrake works, and it supports tons of hardware. This means that people get to spend more time using their computers, rather than configuring, tweaking, and generally catering to the needs of their computers. Some people place a jar in Tennessee, while others use the jar to make jam. The world is a more delicious place for both...

[kmj]

QUOTE]Originally posted by elinor:
Mandrake works, and it supports tons of hardware. This means that people get to spend more time using their computers, rather than configuring, tweaking, and generally catering to the needs of their computers. Some people place a jar in Tennessee, while others use the jar to make jam. The world is a more delicious place for both...[/QUOTE]

Exactamundo. I run mandrake linux. I'm interested in how it works, but not enough to make myself learn it. I'd rather be coding and whatnot. I learn what I need to to get my system in a happy state, and then I'm fine. I'm not a big fan of IT at all;