To those who may possibly be thinking of installing FreeBSD....
You had better make damn sure that you know every little specific detail about your computer's hardware. I picked up the FreeBSD PowerPack yesterday, took it home, flipped through the huge 800 page book, and then tried installing it. After spending an hour just running through the different packages I wanted, it took another two to install them all. Once the installation was finished, the system rebooted, and lo and behold, NOTHING WAS THERE! My file system was basically empty, except for a few basic Unix commands. I couldn't even add users or groups! Anyway, just wanted to give everyone fair warning about that. The good thing is, though, that I've been in correspondence with the author of that big 800 page book, along with several of the reviewers. These guys definitely know what they're doing.
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"...Obscurity is usually the den of incompetence."
R. Heinlein
aph3x
11-21-2000, 03:46 PM
i beg to differ... http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
i had my fBSD box up and running faster than my SuSE box. but i know what you mean about the packages, the ports collection
Sauron
11-21-2000, 04:09 PM
I haven't given up on FreeBSD by any means, though. I'm gonna try it again from scratch tonight, and see if my luck is any better. It IS a ***** to browse through the ports collections, though.
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"...Obscurity is usually the den of incompetence."
R. Heinlein
wmHardRock
11-22-2000, 01:50 PM
Why not try NetBSD and install it on your Blender to see if you like *BSD's in general
freebsd
11-22-2000, 05:01 PM
>>Why not try NetBSD and install it
If he can't get FreeBSD to work, NetBSD is definitely not suitable for him.
NetBSD vs. OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD, NetBSD is the less user-friendly one but from my experience, NetBSD tends to be more stable among the three.
dieselboy
11-23-2000, 01:19 AM
what was the point of this? go back to linux. Would you like some cheese with that wine? probably a windows user? who buys the power pack anyway? and 2 hours on the ports collection? What kind of cdrom you using? toploader? 2X? I did a net install of 4.2 release today in under 15 minutes from ftp7.freebsd.org. but thanks for the heads up... heads up you are slow.
Sauron
11-23-2000, 03:27 AM
dieselboy, we're all so proud that you managed to install 4.2 in under 15 minutes, direct from FTP. I'd also like to know what system you were running. The system that I installed it on (5x86 120mhz, 12x CDRom, 20 MB RAM, 2Gig HD) may not quite match what you're running. I also didn't mention that I backtracked quite a bit during the install routine, which had a lot to do with the amount of time it took. I bought the PowerPack basically because it came with that 800 page book, along with 10 CDs, which seemed like a good deal to me. Considering that I don't have anything faster than a 56k modem (which doesn't even work in Linux), installing via FTP simply isn't an option for me. Besides, the whole point of installing it was basically for experimentation, to see how it differs from Linux and other Unix like OSes that I've used. I still plan on running through it again, and hopefully it won't take me anywhere near half as long as the first time.
Also...
The whole purpose of my post was to basically give the viewpoint of a newbie to any FreeBSD newbies of what they might have to encounter if/when they decide to try it out for themselves. I wasn't necessarily whining, I was simply frustrated that I spent my whole evening doing something which I know I should have accomplished much faster. Any my point DOES remain the same...don't try installing FreeBSD expecting it to be similar to Linux (at least as far as installation is concerned). You'll simply burn yourself out on it before you even get started.
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"...Obscurity is usually the den of incompetence."
R. Heinlein
Sauron
11-23-2000, 03:27 AM
dieselboy, we're all so proud that you managed to install 4.2 in under 15 minutes, direct from FTP. I'd also like to know what system you were running. The system that I installed it on (5x86 120mhz, 12x CDRom, 20 MB RAM, 2Gig HD) may not quite match what you're running. I also didn't mention that I backtracked quite a bit during the install routine, which had a lot to do with the amount of time it took. I bought the PowerPack basically because it came with that 800 page book, along with 10 CDs, which seemed like a good deal to me. Considering that I don't have anything faster than a 56k modem (which doesn't even work in Linux), installing via FTP simply isn't an option for me. Besides, the whole point of installing it was basically for experimentation, to see how it differs from Linux and other Unix like OSes that I've used. I still plan on running through it again, and hopefully it won't take me anywhere near half as long as the first time.
Also...
The whole purpose of my post was to basically give the viewpoint of a newbie to any FreeBSD newbies of what they might have to encounter if/when they decide to try it out for themselves. I wasn't necessarily whining, I was simply frustrated that I spent my whole evening doing something which I know I should have accomplished much faster. Any my point DOES remain the same...don't try installing FreeBSD expecting it to be similar to Linux (at least as far as installation is concerned). You'll simply burn yourself out on it before you even get started.
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"...Obscurity is usually the den of incompetence."
R. Heinlein
freebsd
11-23-2000, 09:22 AM
I still wonder how hard is it to install FreeBSD with the nice /stand/sysinstall tool. All you need to do is to select "Standard Install" and it will go thru all the steps in details and at the final stage it will prompt you to reboot.
>>you know every little specific detail about your computer's hardware
I don't think that even matter for fresh install. If you are talking about compiling a custom kernel to optimize your box, then yes, you need to know a little bit about your hardware, such as sound card.
Believe me, you don't even need to RTFM prior to install FreeBSD as it is as easy as installing a win98.
Craig McPherson
11-23-2000, 09:32 AM
FreeBSD is cool, but the installer is the most blasphemous abomination every to smite the earth with its foulness since the nation of Canada. I personally don't think that an OS should be judged by its installer, but FreeBSD's just plain stinks.
dieselboy
11-23-2000, 12:13 PM
The freeBSD installer is NOT a linux installer and those who expect it to be will probably not like it very much.. But you are crying about it an awful lot.. BTW, the system I installed on is 32 meg of RAM , P133 with 2 gig hard drive... you were installing local, you should have been even faster, so you were backtracking alot you say? So you can say it really wouldnt take all that time.. so what exactly are you not happy about? If you are not competent enough to find your way around, dont choose custom install.. it does say it is for experts.. I find it hard to believe you having all this trouble with FreeBSD didnt have similar problems the first time you installed Linux..
mikeylikesitz
11-23-2000, 12:35 PM
I am a newbie to Linux to start with, but FBSD was alittle hairy, but i did have trouble with switching CD's to load other stuff, other than that it was a little challenging. I took it off for that reason but i will figure it out and put it back. Not real sure of the hardware issue...pIII 500, 128m ram, 20G drive...so hopefully my hardware is up to date.
freebsd
11-23-2000, 02:14 PM
>>i did have trouble with switching CD's to load other stuff
Switching what CD? Are you talking about the package dependencies not found in the same CD forcing you to switch to other CD? I don't think you can do that anyway.
>>Not real sure of the hardware issue
What hardware issue? The GENERIC FreeBSD kernel supports tons of hardware, even ATA-100 controller card. One of the significant difference comparing to FreeBSD and OpenBSD and NetBSD regarding to the GENERIC kernel is that, it doesn't have sound support out-of-the-box, you need to recompile a custom kernel, while both NetBSD and OpenBSD have sound support from the GENERIC kernel.
>>dont choose custom install.. it does say it is for experts
I think he did and skipped some important steps.
jemfinch
11-23-2000, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Craig McPherson:
FreeBSD is cool, but the installer is the most blasphemous abomination every to smite the earth with its foulness since the nation of Canada. I personally don't think that an OS should be judged by its installer, but FreeBSD's just plain stinks.
I'm going to assume you weren't referring to FreeBSD >= 3, because those statements would be utterly and plainly false.
Jeremy
dieselboy
11-23-2000, 09:05 PM
I dont know why Linux users are so disappointed when it comes to FreeBSD. I think they choose expert install because they think they are experts and they are not. It is not the same as Linux , but it is logical. There is nothing in the default install of FreeBSD that should "challenge" a user to the point of whining about it.. From what I have gathered people here is that they pick up linux for the "learning" experience.. FreeBSD just increases this curve a little... As well as being a far more sound OS, as well as more secure.. It has been said many times that you cannot learn unix, i mean really learn it, unless you truely want to. Perhaps many of these people truely do not... I will tell you now, FreeBSD having been derived mainly from Berkley 4.4BSD UNIX , may not be the OS for you. Linux for sure could be.. Linux (specific distros especially) is trying to position itself to be an OS that can compete with Windows for end users choice.. this means easy installation (no brainer). If that is what you want, then DONT choose FreeBSD. The fact that it challenges you to some extent is the reason FreeBSD users generally have a better foundation for this type of material.. sorry if you disagree, but this is the truth.. and I dont want to hear that FreeBSD is not UNIX, I dont care to argue that too much.. what is unix? FreeBSD may not be marketable as UNIX but that certainly is not because it is not unix. If you disagree read the book " The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System" written by Marshall Kirk McKusick and Keith Bostic as well as a few others. They ARE the original writers of BSD UNIX. Perhaps they can tell you why FreeBSD is UNIX.
lates
diesel
bobarian
11-23-2000, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Craig McPherson:
FreeBSD is cool, but the installer is the most blasphemous abomination every to smite the earth with its foulness since the nation of Canada. I personally don't think that an OS should be judged by its installer, but FreeBSD's just plain stinks.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! That's hilarious! Funny post!
Sauron
11-24-2000, 02:55 AM
Y'all seem to be misunderstanding me still. I AM NOT whining about it, nor am I giving up on it! I'm also NOT trying to steer anyone away from FreeBSD. The reason I decided to try it in the first place is because several friends of mine swear by it, and one of them is so bigoted about it that he refuses to run Linux! I've actually seen FreeBSD in operation, and I can assure anyone who hasn't that it IS quite secure, stable, and very robust. Again, I'm not "complaining", per se, but I was a bit frustrated, especially considering that it was my first time installing it. I did install it again, chose Standard Installation instead of Custom (which, I think, the book suggested), and breezed through it in about an hour. It WAS my own idiocy the first time around that caused my problems, but I DID manage to get past it. However, I haven't had much time to play around with it yet.
Also, just a reminder to a few of you who decided to jump up my a$$ about this. The whole reason for this board is for NEWBIES, get it? Stupid questions and general ignorance are going to be the norm, considering what this web site caters to. Just keep that in mind before you decide to call someone's obvious ignorance next time. If they weren't ignorant (regarding a particular subject, like FreeBSD), they probably wouldn't be here in the first place.
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"...Obscurity is usually the den of incompetence."
R. Heinlein
SolarFlux
11-27-2000, 02:12 AM
Nothing like a little FUD to keep people away from BSD.
cdburgess75
11-27-2000, 07:39 AM
I had a little truble installing it too. I bought that same 800 page, 10 cd package. I eventually went with the ftp install of the latest (4.1).
If you are having a problem collecting the latest release I can burm it 4u and snail it to you.
I think the book is awesome though. It gets real deep into explanation for a newbie to FreeBSD like myself.
nanode
11-30-2000, 11:20 AM
On my P166 w/ 32x CDROM and HDD running @ 33MB/sec, I completed a CLI-only install in less than 45 minutes.
It picked up DHCP from my linux server on the first try. Regardless of OS, it is so handy to have extra boxes running on your network. Even backing up /usr/local to a win98 box during upgrades is better than starting over with nothing.
Jorge
12-10-2000, 05:47 PM
I love FreeBSD! The first time I installed it everything went fine but, the second time the boot loader was messed up. I am putting BSDi4.1 on my next machine I am almost done building.
I've installed it from cd and from the net with NO problems w/out needing any manuels.
doom# uname -rs
FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE
>=)
rov
12-10-2000, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Craig McPherson:
FreeBSD is cool, but the installer is the most blasphemous abomination every to smite the earth with its foulness since the nation of Canada. I personally don't think that an OS should be judged by its installer, but FreeBSD's just plain stinks.
At least we Canadians can count ballots of an election.
TaeShadow
12-11-2000, 02:35 AM
It's been a while since I installed either of them but I seem to remember the FreeBSD installation being very similar to the Debian installation.
SolarFlux
12-11-2000, 09:34 AM
Actually, the Slackware install would probably be closest to the fbsd install, but the fbsd install gives you many more options to configure...
Now the NetBSD install, that's a piece of cake. Disklabel is kinda tricky, but the rest of the install is very linear, no jumping around like in the fbsd install.
I have all three BSDs running now and I enjoy all of them. Too bad nbsd doesn't have a X4.0.1 package yet. My VD5 won't work in fbsd or nbsd, so I have to try to compile X myself. It should be fun. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/wink.gif
If you enjoy the manual goodness of slack, you would enjoy tinkering with nbsd.
dave1
12-18-2000, 07:09 PM
Geeze, I didn't think the install was all that bad.I had more trouble with Libranet the first time actually.And i must say that ports do rock!!
dave1
12-18-2000, 07:10 PM
Geeze, I didn't think the install was all that bad.I had more trouble with Libranet the first time actually.And i must say that ports do rock!!
MrPenguin
12-19-2000, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by wmHardRock:
Why not try NetBSD and install it on your Blender to see if you like *BSD's in general
LMAO! Ya, I think blenders are on NetBSD's list of platforms it will run on. It runs on anything http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Peter
Use Linux, Be Happy!
psanchez@underside.net
ICQ: 1528947
GnuPG key is here (http://www.underside.net/key.txt)
Slackware is liked. Debian is loved!
the_bad_seed
12-29-2000, 05:11 PM
I think everyone here is on crack or something. All this whining and snivelling about diesel boys post! Get a life. He gave a warning and that is that. Take umbrage if you want, but do it somewhere else. Trying to help is not a bad thing, but slamming someone who is is an entirely different matter.
Anyhow, FreeBSD rocks....
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that's my two cents, and if you don't like it, I'm not asking for change! :D
prince_kenshi
01-07-2001, 05:31 AM
I happened to pick up FreeBSD today and just got through installing it not so long ago. I believe I picked the normal installation, but I could have picked expert, who knows. But I didn't have any trouble with it, I do know my hardware very well since I built my computer myself. However it did take forever to select my packages. I thought I was never going to get finished. If there's not, there should be a way to install with preselected packages rather than selecting them all manually. But now that I have it installed, I'm a happy fellow. I just have to finish all my configurations.
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Prince Kenshi
Son of Bahamut
DarkL0rd
01-07-2001, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Sauron:
Y'all seem to be misunderstanding me still. I AM NOT whining about it, nor am I giving up on it! I'm also NOT trying to steer anyone away from FreeBSD. The reason I decided to try it in the first place is because several friends of mine swear by it, and one of them is so bigoted about it that he refuses to run Linux! I've actually seen FreeBSD in operation, and I can assure anyone who hasn't that it IS quite secure, stable, and very robust. Again, I'm not "complaining", per se, but I was a bit frustrated, especially considering that it was my first time installing it. I did install it again, chose Standard Installation instead of Custom (which, I think, the book suggested), and breezed through it in about an hour. It WAS my own idiocy the first time around that caused my problems, but I DID manage to get past it. However, I haven't had much time to play around with it yet.
Also, just a reminder to a few of you who decided to jump up my a$$ about this. The whole reason for this board is for NEWBIES, get it? Stupid questions and general ignorance are going to be the norm, considering what this web site caters to. Just keep that in mind before you decide to call someone's obvious ignorance next time. If they weren't ignorant (regarding a particular subject, like FreeBSD), they probably wouldn't be here in the first place.
if you're still pissed of by fbsd you can give it to those who need it like me :-)
skypher
01-07-2001, 03:42 PM
Well, haven't tried freeBSD but i have tried OpenBSd and that wasn't so hard to install or configure for my needs.
The only tricky part was the label thingy....
larryliberty
01-07-2001, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by DarkL0rd:
if you're still pissed of by fbsd you can give it to those who need it like me :-)
I bought The Complete FreeBSD, which came with CD's, but the ftp install is also pretty easy if you already have another box with an internet connection. You just need to download two floppy images, and use the floppies to boot the machine you want to install on.
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Democracy: Two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner.
Constitutional Republic: Same as above, but lamb's not on the menu (unless the wolves are really hungry).
RageAHolic
01-10-2001, 02:45 AM
My 2 bits...
...it went pretty smoothly. It was reminiscent of the Slack installer (they seem to share more in common than init style).
I used a burned ISO of 4.0 and it handled all of my hardware with little to no problems...I had to stop and think at a couple of steps...but nothing too major.
That's my take on it and I'm stickin' to it http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif