My letter to internet.com

[The Whizzard]

I just sent this letter to the CEO of internet.com To whom it may concern,

I am a member of LNO at linuxnewbie.org, which internet.com owns and operates. Myself and other members of LNO are shocked of the announcement that Sensei(the maintainer of linuxnewbie.org) was no longer employed by internet.com. We no longer know what will become of LNO. Please respond with your plans of LNO.

If internet.com has no future plans for LNO, there are members of LNO which have expressd intrest in gaining the linuxnewbie.org domain name to keep LNO the wonderful community it is. We would like to do it ourselvs if internet.com no longer has LNO in their budget. If this is the case, we need to know from internet.com what we can and can't use from the current web site and if you will release the linuxnewbie.org domain name to us.

Thank you for your time,


Brian Leggett, The Whizzard, Member of LNO
I'm hoping to get a responce of what is going on, and the future of LNO. I'll post his responce when I get it.
If anyone wishes to do the same, the email addy is
here (http://www.internet.com/corporate/staff/executive.html).

[ 22 May 2001: Message edited by: The Whizzard ]

[The Whizzard]

That was quicker than I expected. Brian:
Thanks for your interest in Linuxnewbie and the future of the site.

Our plans for the site are still evolving. We plan on maintaining the content portions of the site and integrate the site more fully with the other internet.com Linux sites, including Linux Today.

One thing we cannot do is just give away the linuxnewbie.org name and the Web site: we made an investment when we purchased the site, so it's not possible for us just to give away the name and the site. I did note that you're basically asking us to give them away, and as a publicly held corporation it's really not possible for us to do this.

--Kevin

--
Kevin Reichard
Executive Editor, Internet Technology and Linux/Open Source Channels
internet.com



But not exactly what I wanted to know. I'll find out if the BBS will continue. Any other suggestions?

[The Whizzard]

My responce to Kevin.
Kevin:

Thank you for your response. I knew you wouldn't just give away what you had interest for. I was throwing some ideas around if internet.com no longer had interest for linuxnewbie.org.

A few more questions, if you don't mind? Will the BBS part of linuxnewbie.org continue? Do you have someone to maintain linuxnewbie.org or the LNO BBS? Will we be able to use the NHF's or other information members have contributed on other sites?

Thanks again,

Brian

[Travis Shofner]

I once tried to organize a massive LAN event in my area, that had a lot of support from the community, the local gaming servers, that sort of thing. In the end, we only ended up with 18 entries, far short of even the minimum expected...

I only hope that people here are REALLY interested in LNO. Even though I'm still a newbie, I really feel like a part of this place...and I'd like to do something to save LNO (if needed, maybe internet.com is truly interested in LNO and the community?).

If needs be, perhaps we could setup a contribution "save lno" fund or something. I know there are thousands here with many different skills. If some were willing to step up, I'm sure there would be no problem with the upkeep and maintenace of the site.

[DMR]

We plan on maintaining the content portions of the site and integrate the site more fully with the other internet.com Linux sites, including Linux Today. Hmmm, this is a fairly non-commital statement. My take on "content portions of the site" is "those parts of the site which will generate the most income". There is nothing inherently wrong with that, as internet.com is a for-profit venture after all, but I've got a feeling that the LNO that we know and love will not be the LNO of the future.
If internet.com does indeed decide to drop all or parts of LNO, it would be a good idea for us to find some way to salvage the information contained in the NHFs, forum archives, etc. Snarfing and preserving the NHFs wouldn't be hard, but personally, I can tell you that my hard drives won't accomodate the sheer volume of data contained in the archives. However, if it comes down to it, I would definitely put my time and meager skills to use on any viable salavage effort.

If anyone has further ideas/thoughts on the subject, let's bat them around.

[ 22 May 2001: Message edited by: DMR ]

[The Whizzard]

If it does come time to 'salvage', I might be able to host the NHF's. I'm only on a cable modem connection, so I won't be able to handle much traffic. Another idea I had was putting as much as we can on CD and distribute it for the cost of the CD and shipping. I probably wont have time to create the content, but will be able to burn some CD's of an ISO someone creates.

[The Whizzard]

I agree that it is better for someone to actually converse with someone than just having NHF's. But we're just talking about preserving the information we have, just incase we no longer have access to it.
I don't know. My head hurts. I'm hungry, so I'm going to find something to eat.

[vvx]

I think before we jump to conclusions that it's really nice of a big guy like a CEO to reply so quickly, his post is a little worryful, the main question is what parts of the site is the content portions? This could include the NHF's, forum, and everything we care about. It seems internet.com a business would be more concerned with their ads than anything and the forums would be right up there on the ads, let's at least give them a chance before we give up on LNO..

[Travis Shofner]

Yeah, everything will be ok...

"Mom, I don't know, I don't like travelling..."

"Oh son, the Titanic is the largest ship built! It's unsinkable!"

(is hoping into windows and making lno "available offline" right now)

[Fandelem]

Originally posted by The Whizzard:
<STRONG>I agree that it is better for someone to actually converse with someone than just having NHF's. But we're just talking about preserving the information we have, just incase we no longer have access to it.
I don't know. My head hurts. I'm hungry, so I'm going to find something to eat.</STRONG>

if you had a domain name in mind, you could point it to my account with alieta webhosting (actually to their dns servers.. but anyways..); i get 10 gigs of bandwidth a month and i only use about 100 megs, so i wouldn't mind, especially seeing how the nhf's are text and it would be almost nill on bandwidth. it wouldn't have ad-banners or anything like geocities ;o)

just an idea. if it came down to the worst case scenario. i'd be more than willing to help =)

kyle
(fandelem@hotmail.com)

[Strike]

test ... seems like replying here is possible now

[prince_kenshi]

Don't forget that those NHF's are the property of whoever made them. It would be best to contact that person first. I probably wouldn't mind mine being posted as long as I knew where. It sucks that if the BBS falls under, we don't all have a common place to fall back on. I go to IRC with a few of the people from here. That still leaves hundreds of frequenters though.

[slapNUT]

Exactly what channel does a linux newbie go to in IRC? Surely not #linux a newbie would get flamed severely there for asking some of the questions that get answered here every day.

[PostCode]

Your intellectual property just went corporate. Ouch. You didn't plan on publishing it on your own site now did you? :(

So internet.com....do you plan on copyrighting other peoples work? Do you plan on stealing other peoples work?

[ 23 May 2001: Message edited by: PostCode ]

[Blackknight]

The NHFs are the property of the author. I don't remember signing my rights over to internet.com, so I will publish mine on my own site when I get one.

[Keyser Soze]

Me eyes the unused arrays in my home office.......hmmmmm.....Got to be many, many gigs of free space there.....Me thinks about that fat pipe at work......... :)

[prince_kenshi]

Originally posted by PostCode:
<STRONG>Your intellectual property just went corporate. Ouch. You didn't plan on publishing it on your own site now did you? :( </STRONG>

I'm afraid it's not like that. I never signed any release granting them my property. If it comes down to it, I should still have the message in my send folder at Yahoo to prove that I sent the file to their corporation. Let's see them prove that they had it before me.

[Keyser Soze]

This kevin Reichard?

(http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/) :confused:

[Pierre Lambion]

I think it is not time yet to plan a replacement for LNO BBS. It would be wise however to backup some content (NHF, members profiles, ...) but I'm not sure we can/may do it ... Anyway I don't think we should boycott anything yet!

Maybe we should start a mailing list to ensure that LNO members subscribing to it could communicate and build something new if this BBS is abruptly closed down. It would be a "disruption prevention".

It wouldn't make much sense to close this BBS as it gets many hits but I'm a bit concerned since linuxtoday has its own BBS (a almost inactive one that is). The management could be willing to merge both.

What do you think about the mailing list idea?

P.

[Sensei]

the "real" CEO's addy is not the one posted:

If it does goto the CEO I assume that the CEO, Alan, forwarded the email to Kevin. He runs the Linux channel and writes for Linuxplanet/Linuxtoday, etc.

[evil_roy]

Well at least you kept the Black Belt status Sensei ....even if the HALS have been demoted.

I hope this isn't all as it appears - you've been sacked and the efforts of many enthusiasts are swallowed up in the outright commercial arm of internet.com

If so , it's not the sort of thing linux is all about and is far removed from the LNO I've been involved in. We'll see.

[Sensei]

I'm sure internet.com will repsect LNO the same way I did. I wouldn't worry about that too much. They tend to not fix it if it ain't broke. Which is great IMHO. If anything they will make LNO better.

I won't have Black Belt status much longer....

[evil_roy]

Good to hear Sensei. If you don't feel ripped off it really is "wait and see" for the members here.

[Travis Shofner]

Does someone plan on starting a mailing list? One of the best ideas I've heard so far...I just wanna have a backup :)

[The Whizzard]

Things are looking a little better.
I wouldn't be up to the challange, no idea how to run a BBS. If you don't mind, I'll refer some of the members who may.

Thanks,

Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Reichard
To: The Whizzard
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: linuxnewbie.org(LNO)


Yes, we want to keep the discussion boards going, but we will need assistance from volunteers. Interested?
--Kevin

Drop Kevin a line if you are interested. kreichard@internet.com

[ 23 May 2001: Message edited by: The Whizzard ]

[YaRness]

Originally posted by The Whizzard:
<STRONG>Things are looking a little better.
I wouldn't be up to the challange, no idea how to run a BBS. If you don't mind, I'll refer some of the members who may.

Thanks,

Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Reichard
To: The Whizzard
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: linuxnewbie.org(LNO)


Yes, we want to keep the discussion boards going, but we will need assistance from volunteers. Interested?
--Kevin

Drop Kevin a line if you are interested. kreichard@internet.com

[ 23 May 2001: Message edited by: The Whizzard ]</STRONG>

i think that would be candidate for the front page, or at least some mad cross-posting (especially in programming forum, always bunches of us looking for crap to do).

[The Whizzard]

hmmm....don't know if it'll get on the front page. Unless Sensei does it for us. I can post this in Programming though.

[webbcite]

Sounds like internet.com is smarter than we thought. Can Sensei...then let everyone on the boards work up into a lather about the future of the LNO...then ask for volunteers (read free) to take Sensei's place.

IMHO, I'd say we aren't doing Sensei any favors by replacing him for free. Kinda pisses me off :mad:

But what do I know...I am just a newbie that appreciates what Sensei has built.

Why not have Sensei start a new site with the same community of ppl. Have him charge $1.00/month for membership. Pay by the year. We get OUR LNO back and pay Sensei what he deserves. All is good.

[Lorithar]

Originally posted by Keyser Soze:
<STRONG>This kevin Reichard?

(http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/) :confused:</STRONG>

Kinda sticks in my craw too .... 'specially considering the topic here.

[Coral Sea]

Twelve bucks (I assume you mean US$) a year to have access to a Web site like this run by our former esteemed host? Well...okay.

[prince_kenshi]

Damn, if only I knew how to rub a BBS... If they need help with anything that doesn't require complete knowledge of how a BBS works, you can count me in.

[The Whizzard]

Originally posted by prince_kenshi:
<STRONG>Damn, if only I knew how to rub a BBS... If they need help with anything that doesn't require complete knowledge of how a BBS works, you can count me in.</STRONG>

I wish one could just rub a BBS to make it work. :D I'm sorry I just had to do it. :rolleyes:

[rch-tech]

Heh,
I'll bet Internet.com has half a mind to run this on a M$ infested server, with M$ products. Corp America Sucks!! They sure now how to take a good thing and **** it up!

[pbharris]

this was posted in the arrigato section but that should be more for sensei farwells... anywho this is what i wrote to kevin. not that it matters a whole lot...

hi kevin,
thanks for addressing us directly - i know many companies are having a hardtime making ends meet so while i think it sucks that sensei is gone i can understand having to cut back. personally i am thankful someone has backrolled the site so far.

like linuxgirl says - sensei has mouths to feed. i probably would not come back either on a volunteer basis, job hunting is a time and half job in itself.

thanks also for contacting the moderators they all do an excellent job and are the most helpful people on this BB. sensei did a good job of choosing them and I hope they stay on.

i know internet.com has invested the $$ for LNO and sensei's salary in the past - but all the members made LNO what LNO is. I would appreciate it if we continued to have a say in how LNO is run.

i have had a hard time figuring out if i want to stay an active member of LNO because of sensei's termination, i hope i contribute 1/10 th as much as i have received from LNO. in any event i and many others are here to help the new person with linux. i am of course still loyal to that cause but i also have a loyality to the people who have led this board simply because i think they were extremely effective and no doubt can still be effective.

paul

[compunuts]

Originally posted by evil_roy:
<STRONG>I hope this isn't all as it appears - you've been sacked and the efforts of many enthusiasts are swallowed up in the outright commercial arm of internet.com

If so , it's not the sort of thing linux is all about and is far removed from the LNO I've been involved in. We'll see.</STRONG>
Yeah I'm thinking the same thing here...... Let's wait and see for a while though.....

[Stackrat]

Originally posted by kenshi on Linux Newbie Board (http://www.linuxnewbieboard.org/)
Would you prefer that they just close the board? Because that's probably what they would've done if no one volunteered.
Did anyone actually volunteer? Whizzard said they asked him, but I thought he turned them down (for the wrong reason, IMHO).

I agree with vvx. Why should *anyone* volunteer to maintain a website for free so some company can profit from it? Yeah, we were all part of a community, but there's no reason why we couldn't all pick up an move somewhere else.

Also, while I feel bad for Sensei, I don't feel too bad. He's a bright guy and will surely land a good job. He also got paid a decent price when he originally sold LNO to internet.com in the first place. I'm not saying this isn't a setback for him, but he certainly wont be starving in the streets. This is more of a hit to his self-esteem more than anything. Like I said, he's a bright guy. It took a lot of hard work and dedication to get LNO up to where it is and he will probably land a better job for it.

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by Stackrat:
<STRONG>Did anyone actually volunteer? Whizzard said they asked him, but I thought he turned them down (for the wrong reason, IMHO).</STRONG>
AFAIK, as of last night, no one has been "asked" (except the whizz in that email he posted)

none of the mods have been emailed , that i know of (i have been in contact with just 2 of them)

:D Sensei :D

:cool: LinuxGirl :cool:

[ 29 May 2001: Message edited by: FoBoT ]