Installation Tale of a Debian Newbie

[Sensei]

if you haven't read the article you can read it here:
http://linuxnewbie.org/articles/rwoodcock.html

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Sensei
Join the Linuxnewbie.org SETI Black Belts!
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/cgi?cmd=team_join_form&id=11027

[svmaxx]

you are not alone in the universe..... This guy has far more computer insight than I will have in the next 10 years and here he is thinking along the same lines and falling into the same glitches that I have. When he says that he is realizing how much Windows has shaped the way he thinks I find that so true for me too. You really have to wipe the slate clean in your mind and view Linux in its own way. That is not always easy.
I too have booted and rebooted about a hundred times. I even tried different distros versions you name it before finally settling on Mandrake (i think) http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
And I guess its not only me who posts an issue only to go right back and play with it some more. And how true it is that the documentation out there is less than perfect ecpecialy to a newbie.
Well one thing is for certain....if you want a chalenge along with plenty of brain work then Linux is the place for you.
...And Linux is definately the place for me.

...now if I could only figure out those "script thingies" http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[ChrisM]

Although I admire your bravery, it might be better to start out with Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSE. These distros are geared for beginners and will make it easier to install a bunch of stuff and get you going right away. Debian is geared for people who know exactly what they want and know how to use it. It might be worth it for you to purchase an official version of the distro with a printed manual.

I've installed Linux on various systems and have never had a lockup on install, in fact the install usually takes about 20 min total.

It is a good idea to know the exact model of your video and network cards. Probably most of your problems will come in configuring X (the graphics system). One problem that I have seen is choosing which monitor to use when yours is not listed. Although you can destroy your monitor with the wrong settings, I find that Custom...High Frequency 1024x768 SVGA works for just about any monitor made after 1994.

Oh, it is 'ls', not 'dirs' that is similar to dir on DOS (short for list). 'ls -l' and 'ls --color' are common options, and can be combined.

[X_console]

Well I'm supposed to be getting a Debian CD soon. I'm definately gonna have to try it out. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Fear is the path to the Dark Side.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate.
Hate, leads to suffering.
-- Yoda

Home: http://members.tripod.com/LunarsBlood/index.html
PGP: http://members.tripod.com/LunarsBlood/pgpkey.html

[stottm]

Debian or Slackware are two of the worst distributions for new Linux users. Slackware doesn't seem to be as up-to-date as Debian. Debian is designed for UberGeeks and technical types. I do hope it stays that way, I like the Geeky distro's; they offer more flexible installations.

For example: I run Debian, because I can install a very base Linux system easily and then download and install the specific things that I need or use. Redhat which I am actually using right now, tends to install a lot of stuff (junk) that I don't want or need. I do however like Redhat and when I get a chance; I plan on building a Kickstart installation for it. This way I customize exactly what I want to install and automate the heck out of the installation. Thereby, boot and run the install without having to answer the same questions over and over. This allows one to install a custom system and be able to wipe the drives and re-install it the exact same way every time.

I remember going through what you did but with Slackware 0.99.x something. I remember how overjoyed I was when it first booted to a login prompt. Not to mention how awesome it was to get XFree86 running as well. The only instructions I had were on a CD Jewel case pull out. I had to build boot floppies and then install packages using the installation program. It was NOT simple by any means. I did have some UNIX experience with the basics. This came from having an early Internet Account before SLIP/PPP was available. This meant getting dropped into a VT100 Terminal session at a UNIX prompt. Used programs like Pine for email, Lynx for surfing the web, iirc for chat, tin for newsgroups, etc. So the ISP gave me this quick reference guide that covered most of the command line basics and the aforementioned applications. The rest of my knowledge came from buying books at Barnes & Noble on X Windows and UNIX. There were no Linux books at the time.

Kudo's to you for making the valiant attempt at making Debian work for you. I found my early attempts with Slackware were very educational to put it mildly. However, these early days were very rewarding so put up the good fight and drive on. It turns into a downhill coast once you get the hang of it. All Linux knowledge builds on itself so things get much easier.



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Matthew J. Stott
stottm@home.com
Desktop Operations Center
Senior Field Service Technician Level II/III

[mcrbids]

This gentleman is making a supreme mistake. Linux is only as stable and usable as the hardware it sits upon. Don't use suspect hardware to run Linux.

Using bad hardware is like testing a race car driver using an old 70's jalopy car with a bad radiator leak.

Using RH 6.0, I was able to get my hardware up the first time within a few days. (I had a problem with a dead CD-ROM that still blinked like it was alive)

Another point for newbies: Why is it that you still read lots of recommendations for tons of partitions?

For a newbie, make just TWO: 1) Swap, 40 MB, 2) /, whatever's left. Split out into other partitions when you see the need, and see what YOUR requirements will be.

A newbie's computer is NOT GOING TO BE USED FOR MISSION CRITICAL DATA. So why make them treat their computer like it will?

I've just recently separated my /home directory, when I upgraded to a 6.4 GB HD. Forget all this nonsense about tons of partitions. You might add a /boot partn if they have an 8 GB hard drive or bigger, first, but that's it!

Let's not overcomplicate, eh? Linux is already complicated enough.

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("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ (Simba)
`@_ @ ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
((().-'' ((().' (((.-' Benjamin Smith

[error27]

great story!

despite what previous people have said debian rules. although setup may be a little tricky once you have command line everything gets far easier from there.

serious debian junkies will tend to use apt-get and cuss at dselect all the time but don't listen to them. apt-get is good if you have several computers that need the same software and you already know how to use it. But dselect is far easier for newbies.

in the dselect you will want to choose your method of installation (cd). then update the files you can choose from. then go to select and you'll see a huge list of files. they are sorted by "required files" "important" "optional" and "extra" You basically want all the required ones and all the important ones"

to install stuff you just press '+'. normally though the programs will need some other program that you don't have on your computer. This means it will take you to a page where it shows you all the programs that it will need to install first to get your program running. it will put '*' by all the ones that are required. this means it will install those first. it puts a '_' by the ones it suggests that you install. as a newbie I just took all its suggestions. '+' to install those.

because some of the suggestions maybe "take one or the other but don't take both" if you choose both you'll get another screen to sort out those dependency problems.

you can force it to do anything here but my advice for as a newbie is don't bother. take everything it suggests. later on you can come back and use '-' to unistal them if you want.

"_" means leave it the same as how you found it in when you started dselect. "=" means mark it to be left how it is on your computer until you unmark it.

when you connect to the internet with dselect it will try to update just about everything automatically and this can be a problem with dselect. I have a fast connection and wanted the newest versions so never cared. but you may want to find another solution. apt-get may be ideal?

your next trial should be to get xwindows working. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif it's really nice to have that up. Debian won't have KDE on your cd because of licensing issues. But this will be sorted out when KDE 2 comes out. I use enlightenment but I think the themes for enlightenment that come by default on that cd are really ugly and don't show what a beautiful a fully customisable windowing system can be.

Actually, all the window systems I tried came really ugly by default. Black Box, Window Maker, and a couple others I forget. check out e.themes.org Newer cd's will have better looking window managers.

how you change your command prompt is in /etc/profile To find how to edit this file type man bash. (this is a really long man file) you should search for 'ps1' by using the '/' key. (also that key is used search dselect) It helps if you have more than one run level going on incase you screw something up you can change it back from the other runlevel. (type alt-f3). Changing the command line is more hassle than it's worth. It took me 3587894 of man pages to figure it out. :P

good luck.

error27

ps the potatoe or unstable version of debian is actually not really that unstable. It's just that some files may have incorect dependencies and stuff. and once in a while i'll have an experimental program that seems a little broken from the earlier version. But the stable version is too old for me often. This system is one of the criticisms of debian so they may be changing it in the future.

[klamath]

despite what previous people have said debian rules

I'll second that!

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Klamath
Get my GnuPG key from:
http://klamath.dyndns.org/mykey.asc

[deblinux]

Here is the path I took
webtv,Jan 1 1999, Gateway 366c with windows 98,March 1 , Debian install Sept. 17 .
I have had very little experiance with computers, I do however have some analog electronics experiance .
My installation went well with Fips. and the official Debian 4CD set. My only expence's were the CD's and a 25$ controler modem and the time spent READING the online doc's and Howto's before the install.
The online Debian installation manual was a great help,and also the general install manual on the Linux Home page. Oh and don't forget the FAQ'S!!
I admit that that it was not with out problems but the answers were out there.
I have learned alot and have a long way to go but it works great!!

[Stormwalker]

Well, I just did my fourth RH install (over a 1-year period) last night (first two were 5.2, third and fourth were 6.0), and I have to say so far I've liked the RH distro. Each of my reinstalls has been not because of problems, but because of things that I've learned, and realized that I could have done better if I'd known them from the start.

Of course, lately I've kinda gone aside from typical RedHat fashion... I select individual packages on installation now, so I can filter out a lot of the stuff (like GNOME) that I don't use. Hence my question on the other topic, about the pros and cons of each distro... I want to know if there's anything I'm missing by sticking with RedHat.

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"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
--Gandalf the Grey

[Craig McPherson]

I enjoyed reading the article; some of the fellow's understanding was flawed, but it was a good start.

One of the things I like most about Debian is the "install once, run forever" philosophy. There's NEVER a reason to reinstall Debian unless you start breaking rules and mess stuff up, unlike with Redhat as was stated in the previous post. You can change ANYTHING in Debian without reinstalling, and easily upgrade endlessly.

I've promised myself that I will use my current installation of Debian until at least 2010. I know it won't stay on the same hard drive or same computer, but I will continue using the installation heavily, every day, upgrading at least twice a week, for at least ten years.

I think Debian is the ONLY OS out there where a person can upgrade the operating system to the latest version at least twice a week, for ten years, tinkering and hammering on the installation pretty hard, and STILL have the installation in perfect working condition and not in need of a reinstall even after ten years. I intend to prove that.

[decsnake]

While I'm sure the reviewer's heart is in the right place, he seems to suffer from many misconceptions and misunderstandings of how a computer works. He clearly has a little knowledge and as the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A good example of this is his repeated and unnecessary use of Partition Magic.

I would like to start out by saying that I have no vested interest in Corel Linux and that my experience with it is limited to one test install of the publically available version of the product. In fact, my limited experince with it would leads me to believe that it's not my cup of tea. My Linux experince, however, goes back to 1992.

I'd like to correct a few of the errors of fact in the article.

The limitation of 4 primary partitions is due to the DOS partition table format. Linux understands several different partition table
formats, most (all?) except the DOS format are not limited to 4 partitions.

Linux understands 45 different partition types, 2 of which are ext2 and swap. Linux can boot from several different types of file systems, ext2 being the most popular. Linux does not require a swap partition, akin to the Windows NT pagefile.sys. Using one is recommended though. The reviewer also seems to confuse partition types and file system types.

Other distributions of Linux can be installed from files on another partition. Corel Linux attempts to make things simpler by limiting the number of options that are presented to a new user, so therefore does not support this.

With the right tools, it is be possible to create a bootable Linux system from another OS. The distributions that install under windows actually do this. WinLinux2000 is an example of one that does this.

Your understanding of having different file systems for the various directory trees that make up a Unix system was clearly learned from someone wise in the ways of setting up production Unix systems. Unfortunately, it makes little sense to set up a home system
like that and doesn't fit well at all with the intentions of the designers of the Corel installer. I generally recommend that home Unix users have only 2 file systems, one for the OS and one for their personal files, mounted on /home perhaps.

I'm not sure why the system hung when you tried to open a HTML file however I can assure you that Linux DID "have to hash back through its own program files to make sure nothing got corrupted after an irregular shutdown like that". In Unix, the process is called 'fsck'ing a disk, Corel Linux performs that process behind it's splash screen so you didn't see it. There are Linux file systems that don't require 'fsck'ing, but Corel Linux does not utilize any of them at this time.

You may not have had the "TreeSize" utility, but all Unix systems have a command that shows disk utilization. It's called 'du'. Another command called 'df' will give you a quick snapshot of how much disk space a file system is using.

Yes, you have a enter a password every time you boot the system, unless of course you disable that. Disabling the use of passwords is a very Bad Idea.

Corel Linux has it's own utility for graphics configuration. Clearly it could use some improvement if your experience is any indication. It worked fine on my test system with an old S3 trio64 and NEC 5FG monitor. If your hardware will 800x600 under windows with the right configuration it will do at least that under Unix. Getting it to do that is generally not within a newbies capability unfortunately.

[Tasselhof]

I think that this story may be fairly typical of many peoples first experience with Linux. They hear it's good, and free and so they install on a spare PC or hard disk and then expect it to work just like Windows. Even to the point of double clicking a Word .doc file and expecting it to work.

Linux is not a "better Windows". I think that in many cases it is a better operating system, and I certainly wouldn't switch back, other than to keep one Windows machine for client support and Borland Delphi development. Even that will hopefully be available on Linux soon.

I learnt that in order to use Linux in a way that helped, rather than hindered me, I needed to understand the philosophy behind it, and stop trying to force it to be a Windows clone, because I understood that. It now runs my server and a couple of desktop machines, and they work very well. With StarOffice or WordPerfect installed, they even understand Word .doc files.

[usual]

you know i had to speak http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

Debian 0w3nz j00r mom!

I swear i have never used a better dist and i wont change except maybe to try Stormix(easy install version of debian). Debian IS NOT HARD TO INSTALL....if you have any basic knowledge of your computer its not hard at all....anyone who can't figure out what device there CDROM is or whatever..then use a dist that does it all for you....and you learn nuthin....I personally installed debian after tryin most of the other major dists.....and i was VERY NEW and it isn't that hard...debian gets a bad rap cause of the install when its really not that bad....and now you can buy debian in a box to...free tech support/game/staroffice/book
but anyone who wants to try debian...try Stormix....Debian with easy install...i hear corel sucks....but stormix looks great. you couldn't pay me to switch back to another dist http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
all the LNO regulars know how i am http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[klamath]

Craig:

I think Debian is the ONLY OS out there where a person can upgrade the operating system to the latest version at least twice a week, for ten years, tinkering and hammering on the installation pretty hard, and STILL have the installation in perfect working condition and not in need of a reinstall even after ten years. I intend to prove that.

I'm a fellow Debian user, but FreeBSD (and the other *BSDs I believe) offer the same capability - you get the latest source from the -STABLE or -CURRENT source tree, update your kernel source, update your ports tree, and rebuild everything. It does take a bit longer than the Debian method (since you have to update some stuff by hand, and it has to compile everything), but it is the same idea as Debian.

But it is definately miles easier and more powerful than admin-ing a Winblows box - what a nightmare!


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Klamath
Get my GnuPG key from:
http://klamath.dyndns.org/mykey.asc

[a0rez]

Hi, newbie here.

I also tried Corel Linux as my first Linux Distribution. It was installed on my PII 350 on the second (extended) partition of 3.0Gb. I was up and running within 45 minutes, and i found it to be quite fast. But i found that it wasn't quit what i was looking for, and I installed RedHat 6.0 and that installation was much more complicated, but not quite as complicated as others i hear, anyway, The only problem i had with red hat was getting my RIVA TNT to work properly, i could not get any video in X.

thanks for listening,

a0rez

[DeN|aL]

Judging something from a unique (or rather rare) case is one of the biggest mistakes that one can make. It is understood that many people do have problems installing and configuring (or rather optimizing) Linux, the main reason to this is that Linux is not a commercial OS like others and it is less user-friendly. But we all know that there are so many different distributions, each built for users of different experiences.

Imagine a primary school student trying to solve a university level mathematical problem. That makes no sense after all does it? One of the most important aspects of Linux is that users learn it from own mistakes, by trial and error. If linux is made to work exactly the same way as windows, it will certainly lead to a totally dependant cyberworld, and those having no ability to control it (rather than just using it) will remain slaves to those with control.

I think your case is just one with "a wrong person doing the wrong thing at the wrong time".



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Never Underestimate The Power Of Denial
-- unknown

[plasmatek]

Great story. I feel like a guinea pig, as I seem to have tried just about every distro there is, except for slackware.
I first tried RedHat 5.1, which I didn't really like, then the next distro I tried was Mandrake 6.0, followed by Mandrake 6.1, I thought these were both bloated and had lots of rpm troubles, even though it is derived from Red Hat. Then I tried debian, which was the worst distro I have ever tried, followed by Corel Linux in which I had the same problems with the idiotic partitioner that was in this story. So the only two left were SuSE and Slackware, I decided to try SuSE 6.2 after noticing the huge support database on their website, and its great! I would recommend SuSE to any linux newbie! I am not using it much at the moment as I cannot get my unbranded network card to work, however I have ordered a 3com one and am hoping to become a Grasshopper soon http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif
Big thanks to SuSE for their great distribution, YaST is great. I think the partitioner included is about the same as disk druid, which I also like, definitly much better than the idiotic Corel Linux one. I also use partition magic if I have trouble, and there is a linux version.

Also I was quite pleased after recovering from a crash. My network card was locking up linux on bootup, and despite the best efforts of #linuxhelp (EFNet) to help by using the bare.i from slackware, I still couldn't fix it. So I remembered seeing 'mini' linux distros on linux.org, and downloaded one called tomsrbtb or something (www.toms.net), put it on a disk, booted up, renamed tulip.o to tulip.old, rebooted and my system worked. I then removed the tulip module with YaST, and renamed the file back in case I needed it again in the future.

Anyway, basically I recommend SuSE to anyone thinking about linux. I didn't like any other distributions, although slackware may be good because I havn't tried it.

hmm. That must be the longest post in this forum. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

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In /dev/null no-one can hear you scream :)

[entropy]

I hate the long downloads also.

Sites like http:\\linuxcentral.com will send you a CD of the downloadable distro for $1.95 plus shipping.

It takes a while for snail mail to deliver it, but it's a lot less headache than a 350 Meg d/l!

[EscapeCharacter]

i have attempted to install debian on four computers about 10 times total. everytime there is something that goes wrong, one time i told it install just the base system, and then it still installed everything. i found freebsd to be a better install. im not knocking debian maybe i got a bunk iso or something but it just hasnt worked out for me. the last time i tried to install it, it was triple booting rh6 win95 and freebsd, i had 4 gigs left so i decided to put debian in to fill it up, the install went fine it seemed to install everything just fine and it did. the one thing i didnt expect was that it would delete all the other partitions i had, no more rh6 no more freebsd no more win95. it was all gone i had no idea what happened so that was the last time i messed with that thing maybe ill give it another shot in a couple months. in the mean time i reinstalled everything and it worked fine again and added slackware 7 on the last partition with rh6 freebsd 3.3 and win95, and they all work fine.
well thats my little debian mishap

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Hmm... I guess I shouldn't have hit enter

[perspective]

Nice to see such a detailed listing. Unfortunate that writer lacked so much basic computer experience, which would have helped
him so much.

He claimed to know DOS, then found unix so hard. Strange. DOS stole almost everything
from unix. For instance, DOS v1.0 had no directories or pipes. These were copied from
unix and inserted into DOS v2.0. Look at that manual and the examples for directories
use names found only in unix, such as usr,
and have never been used in DOS. The "cd" command comes from unix.

In the early days of DOS, there were no directories, so rename "ren" worked only on files. Under much pressure, MS reneged on its early promises to independent vendors
not to usurp their products, and copied the
functionality to rename directories. To do this, they stole the software from the unix
"mv" (move) command, which worked not only
on files but also directories.

By stolen, I mean the following. In DOS, an
option switch on a command is specified with a "/", so for instance, the "dir/s" command displays all subdirectories. In unix, an option switch on a command is specified with a "-", so for instance, the "ls -l"
command is a long listing.

Now suppose you have a file under DOS named "-X" and you want to rename it to "-Y". The
command would be: move -X -Y

But this returns the error mesage "option not
found". In unix you would get around this
with the command: mv .\-X .\-Y

This also works for "move". Not only did MS
give the functionality of the unix command
but also its exact code; they never even changed for the DOS environment except to
add the "/".

Anyone who understands DOS is just a stonesthrow away from understanding unix; with a few caveats. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/cool.gif

[Craig McPherson]

Yep, DOS is stolen from UNIX. UNIX is stolen from VMS. KDE is stolen from Windows95. Windows95 is stolen from MacOS. MacOS was stolen from Xerox. Xerox was stolen from something so long ago that I don't remember it. A grand lineage of theft.

[the_bad_seed]

Speaking as a newbie, I can say that Debian/GNU Linux is a challenge. I started out with Red Hat 5.1, then gave up on it since my computer hardware was so old that it was a pointless endeavor. Recently, I went out and payed for a boxed Corel Linux set. While pretty intuitive, it still left me wanting more control. Especially since it wasn't loading tulip.o to support my NIC. My next step (thinking it would help me with Corel since it is based on Debian) I went out and purchased the book by O'Reilley "Learning Debian/GNU Linux."

THAT WAS THE SINGLE BEST INVESTMENT I HAVE MADE SO FAR. I absolutely love the debian distro! The book takes you step by step through the install and basic configuration. In addition, it provides a fantastic foundation for understanding xf86config. I wish that I had found this a year or so ago. It ships with the 2.2.12-2.2.12-12 kernel on CD with all the extras you could want.

Anybody who is serious about learning to use Linux IMHO should pick up this book. Gave me the basic knowledge and tools to get my system up and running (with all that old hardware to boot) in less than an hour.

Thanks for lending me your ear!

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[fuzzyping]

I would like to personally thank the_Bad_Seed for performing one of the easiest, yet most proficient means of fixing a system... RTFM!

It's unfortunate and typical of our society that everyone wants to be able to use the blender without reading the manual. I would highly recommend that anyone considering Linux strongly take this route. There is ample documentation out there for newbies... not just linuxnewbie.org. Try metalab.unc.edu/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO or www.linuxgazette.com (http://www.linuxgazette.com) or any of the other numerous information sources available over the internet.

In addition, the O'Reilly series of UNIX/Linux books are an invaluable resource. Just remember, it's not considered cheating to ask for help. You can't be expected to drive in the boonies without a map! http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/wink.gif

[wganz]

I also suffered the slings & stones of outrageous fate while attempting my first Debian install. This was my third Linux install with the first using Caldera's OpenLinux 2.3. The second was with µLinux in a DOS partition. These installs were deceptively easy and set me on the primrose path to installation Hell.

I started out by writing down my objectives for this box. Just a CLI( bash and no X windows), vi, Perl, apache, NFS, gcc++, and mySQL. If Modula3 and a SmallTalk variant fits, then I will install them also.

This should fit comfortably in the 1gig of HD space that I had between the 2 HDs. The Compaq Deskpro 575(575) had 16megs of RAM with 2 sockets open so that I could add additional memory later if needed but 16 megs of RAM will be about what I paid for the 575. According to People That Know, this was quite doable on my machine. There were jumpers that could be set so that I could upgrade my processor from 75 to 166MHz. A 2.25 speed bump might be justifiable down the road but for a $45 575 that I rescued from retirement, I am going to have to think about investing another USD$40 for either a faster CPU or more RAM. My initial reaction was that it was going to be easy since it was a Compaq. Boy, was I wrong. One thing that I did do right at the first was to install a spare HD to up storage capacity. The next Good Thing was to keep notes of what I did so that I could change/keep settings.

After, being steered towards potato 2.2.7-2000 because of alleged built-in support for the ZIP SCSI, the basic installation files were consolidated in a subdirectory of my W98 machine. W3.11 was installed onto hda1 then the SCSI ZIP installation was next, then, finally, the Debian files were transferred over using the ZIP drive onto hdc1. The fate of hdb is still a mystery to date. W3.11 was installed on hda as the sacrificial lamb for my instincts were that the install process was Windows hostile and probably work better if it destroyed a Windows setup. Partially correct on this point, Debian loves to install over Windows but angels and ministers of grace preserve you if you need to go backwards to redo a hosed Debian install. Yes, and the undocumented command of fdisk /mbr to fix the Main Boot Record didn't work in this case(another case of Compaq's idiocyncracies?).

The selection of the binaries was somewhat problematic but was aided by the lookup on the FreeBSD.org web site. Some will comment about using dselect to do this for me, but at the time I did not know that dselect existed nor is there any mention at (http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/) about it. I found the link to 'WWW Interface to packages' after I installed. Later I will go back, and see if I got everything that I wanted.

As with most newbies, I typed install.bat and entered the HD partition tar pit. This lead to several long nights with FAQs and installation guides. My instincts was right about creating a separate partition on the secondary HD for W3.11fWG. More about this later. On hda, I created 3 partitions, hda1 which initially held W3.11, hda5 which was to be for /usr, and hda6 as a 32meg swap file. The arcania that I found indicated that a swap file twice the size of RAM but <=32megs was A Good Thing. The truth is that it is not necessary on newbie's machines and is only A Good Thing if one has a mission-critical machine for which one wishes to limit the backup requirements. Ultimately, the 575 had the following

hda1 - 209megs ext2
hda5 - 209megs ext2
hda6 - 32megs swap
hdc1 - 254megs msdos
hdc5 - 332megs msdos
(to be converted later to ext2 after system is stable)
hdc6 - 32megs swap
hdc7 - 7megs unusable due to # of bad sectors left as is/where is

A guru on the Debian chat indicated that installation using NFS would be easier since my OpenLinux box had a CDROM on it. At this point, the built-in Ethernet port was inaccessible to Linux for 2 reasons. This is where W3.11fWG came in handy. I rebooted with a DOS disk and reloaded W3.11fWG onto hdc1. My logic was that a simpler program will be easier to debug. It also had No Joy on finding eth0 & installing using NFS. Back to the FAQs.

I found that Compaq had played merry with the memory and addressed eth0 where Linux(or Novell either) could find it. This lead to a dog chasing tail exercise in that all of the links in the various FAQs were pointing to a nonexistent(http://www-c724.uibk.ac.at/XL/) which held out the elusive hope of " the only working solution I know of. " After 2 days, I tracked it down to MOVEPCI.SYS( aka SP1599.exe) on Compaq's site. I also used MSD.exe under W3.11fWG to look at the IRQs. No Ethernet listed. Hmmm. Bad karma there. Went back to Compaq's site and got the diagnostic disks, created them, and booted the 575 with that. Found that the VGA & Ethernet port were sharing IRQ 11. Not A Good Thing. Changed the Ethernet port to IRQ 10 and rebooted.

Booted my OpenLinux 2.3(COL2.3) machine which was already tied via a NetGear hub to the 575 and configured the Ethernet settings. Set it as the server. Learned more about TCP/IP than I thought I would. Back to the 575 and invoked install.bat for the 4th time. Stepped through the network settings with what I had recorded from my COL2.3 install and it went swimmingly. Pinged back and forth through the network to test that they communicate. Life was now good.

Now the true work begins. But what are the lessons learned??

* Have a specific configuration/purpose in mind before you start
* Keep a log and, if in doubt, keep a log!
It really helps when you have to reinstall multiple times around a problem
* Check the hardware(the IRQ conflict should have been caught first)
* Use Windows to first test the hardware
but understand Linux is finicky about hardware
* Be ready to read and study the documentation first, then do the procedure
* Be ready to get the configuration disks if it is a Compaq to check the setup
* Be ready to not get help from the chat channel or newsgroup(sad but true)
* Be ready to install multiple times to finally get it right
* Should have gotten a used CDROM & the CDs, and installed from a CD;
¡then, pull the CDROM and install the 2d HD!
* Linux can run at acceptable speeds on older hardware that Windows cannot

I got Debian installed and am really proud of it. Learned a lot during the process and am more prepared for upgrading this system and the next install on the Dell560L that I just got. However, Debian cannot be recommended for Linux newbies unless they have a masochist streak. I will do some experiments on upgrading the CPU and RAM, and post the numbers to see if it is cost effective. Now, where did that TurboLinux CD go from the Linux Journal?

[bwhelan]

I'm not to sure about Corel, but I did have a simlar problem when installing RED Hat on an IBM ThinkPad 770. First I would say that you need to obtain two things in order to fix you graphics.
1. Get your monitor resolution, Vertical Refresh rate, and Horizontal Sync.

Note you config files may be different cause your using Corel.

log on to Root.
cd /etc/X11/
vi XF86Config
page down till you see the monitor settings
Put in your refresh rate. (i to insert data)
if you can't find you Horizontal Sync, Try going to the following URL www.dkfz-heidelberg.de/spec/linux/modeline/ (http://www.dkfz-heidelberg.de/spec/linux/modeline/)

Put in the Horizontal Sync
find your modeline
Enter in the modline you found at the website.
press esc
then :wq
At prompt
startx

if you alrady have x windows running reboot.

That should fix you problem..

Warning This could prvent you from entering you concil so, back up you config file

ie
cp <Curr File Nam> <New File Name>

You may also want to do the following..

in /etc/
vi inittab
change option to 3.

if all this still doesn't work ..
in /etc
vi lilo.conf

copy the lines where it starts
image=/boot/vlinux
to the end

do this by
#oflinesyy
ie 7yy
insert a blank line after the end of file
esc to get out of insert mode
P to paste

go back to insert mode and change the image you just pasted following
label=linux to label=test
vga=0x305
then press escape
:wq
at prompt
/sbin/lilo
this saves what you just did
reboot
at lilo prompt type in test
at prompt
type: startx
if this works then go back to your /etc directory
vi inittab
chage the option back to 5.

and that should fix your problem

Good luck this took me about 5hrs to figure out.

oh yeah if you messup while editing using vi
:q!
quits without saving changes

peace
Brian http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ubb/smile.gif

[orfan]

A slackware 7.1 user here...burnout from Redhat, Mandrake, SuSe, etc.....

Actually you can suggest for newbies, that they only make ONE swap partiton and ONE / partition and let the install run its course. The reasons for the multiplicity of partitions (hardware) are mostly now OldHat. :-)

orfan

[mfwalker]

I am interested in weather or not the graphic problem of not being able to see the bottom of the application.

I loaded Corel ver2 and the desktop looks fine. I am using a diamond stealth video card and configured it with the XF86Setup.

Originally posted by Sensei:
if you haven't read the article you can read it here:
http://linuxnewbie.org/articles/rwoodcock.html