XP & Kubuntu!

[Goodspeed2211]

HDD size = 298 GB seen in windows.

1. 30 GB NTFS for XP.

2. 10-80 GB Mount Point/Primary beginning ext4, is this the same as ROOT...is this where all Linux distros/Ubuntu variants are installed?

3. At least 2 GB Mount Point/Home....what is stored & shared in home?

4. 4 GB swap/logical..........shared by Linux distros if any besides Kubuntu?

5. Rest all NTFS Data/Shared for both Kubuntu & XP.

Install XP first.

Defrag, CHKDSK & partition C using DD CD & create NTFS Data/Share??

Install Kubuntu manually create Root/Swap/Home??

Kindly correct me.

Regards!

[saikee]

If you start from nothing this would be my plan.

(1) Use a Linux Live CD, say Kubuntu in this case, and boot up the PC. Click a terminal and check the hard disk by command
sudo su
fdisk -l
Assuming you can afford to erase the hard disk then use cfdisk to delete all the partitions
cfdisk /dev/sda Inside the program use the direction keys to delete the partitions, save the partition, exit cfdisk and check the hartd disk again by the same "fdisk -l". Except this time the output should confirm a blank disk.

(2) Use cfdisk again by
cfdisk /dev/sda to create

sda1 with 30Gb and specify partition type 7 for ntfs. Select it to be bootable.

start using logical partition and it will be sda5, make it 1Gb and alter the type to 82 for swap.

Make another logical partition of say 20Gb. Don't alter the type and it will be Type 83 suitable for Linux. It will automatically called sda6

Make one more logical partition sda7 of size say 100Gb, make it type 7 for ntfs.

Save the partition table. Exit cfdisk and again check the disk layout which should have sda1 as the bootable primary. sda2 is now visible encompassing sda5, sda6 & sda7. sda5 is a swap with ID=82, sda6 has ID 83 and sda7 has ID=7 same as sda1. No need to format any of them yet.

Your hard disk is partitioned and ready to install Xp and Kubuntu with unallocated space after sda7 which caould be used for a variety of usage in future.

(3) Install XP into the first 30Gb partition. Xp installer only sees two partitions displaying 30 or 100Gb. The last one is for data. Once Xp is installed ensure it is working normally. Use it to format the 100Gn partition. Xp will see it at first because it is a NTFS. It can't mount it because it has not yet been formatted. After you formatted it with Xp the 100Gb partition will be mounted as "D" drive.

(4) You can now install Kubuntu. In so doing insist it to be installed in sda6, mount it as / and select say Ext4 as the filing system. Kubuntu installer will arrange the dual boot automatically.

You now can have a choice booting to Xp or Kubuntu. Both systems allow you to read/write the 100Gb ntfs partition. With Linux the writing has to be done as root or you change the ownership of the sda7 to suit the normal user in Kubuntu.

Whenver there is some personal data you want to save in either Xp or Kubuntu you move the data to the 100Gb partition and delete the source. That way both Xp and Kubuntu would never grow out of control.

I recommend you let each Linux to have its own /home as it can be a lot of work to make /home common. Since your data is in sda7 you can always mount it in any Linux and need very little space for /home.

There are always more than one way to achieve what you want. My suggestion is tailored for the minimum future maintenance.

[impert]

1 Size required depends on your use.

2 "/" is the sign for the "root" directory: the one that contains everything, ie all the other directories, in a Linux OS. Not to be confused with "root" who is the 'superuser' (=admin) and who has his own folder, called (would you believe) "root" in the / folder, ie /root.

3 Usually, when you just have one OS, users keep all their personal stuff in their "home" folder. A user called "bill" will have a home folder called bill, in /home, ie /home/bill. 2G in this case will be _very_ small, especially if you have photos, music or videos. If you have a separate data partition (useful if you are multibooting, because you can set it up so it can be accessed by all Linux OSs) then you don't need a separate /home partition: it can be on the same partition as /, since all it will hold is a few configuration files and a bunch of symbolic links to the data partition.

4 Swap partitions can be shared between distros. They should appear in /etc/fstab, the file system table.

5 Linux used to not handle NTFS, I believe, and it was better to use FAT 16 or 32 if you wanted to share data between Linux and Windows. I think this has changed. (Not sure because I don't use Windows.)

Note that you can only have four Primary partitions, one only of which may be an Extended partition, which means that it can be split into a large number of Logical partitions (An extended partition can't hold anything except logical partitions). Windows wants a primary partition all to itself, and I think your data, if you're sharing between Windows and Linux, is probably better on a primary also. Linux can go on a Logical partition, so can swap, and so can a data partition or any other extra partitions that are used only by Linux(es). Some people have a separate partition for /boot, /var, /tmp, for instance - these days it's generally not necessary, except /boot if you're using an odd file system which the bootloader can't handle. It's not a bad idea to have a bit of spare (unallocated) space - you can decide what you want to do with it when you have more experience.

So to recap:
One primary partition for Windows
One primary partition for data shared between Windows and Linux
One extended partition containing:
One logical partition for each Linux (10G is a good size)
One logical partition for swap (2x RAM)
One logical partition for data shared between different Linux distros, if you wish to do this, (this is my recommendation) OR
One logical partition for /home, if you use only one Linux OS
A bit of unallocated space which you can turn into a primary partition if you want more Windows accessible space; or which you can add to the extended partition to carve up into more logical partitions for Linux-only use, or which you can format and use for a temporary backup . . .
In any event, it's wise to keep your data on a different partition to /. When things go pear-shaped (sooner or later they always do), you can do a fresh installation without losing stuff. Having more than one Linux is also invaluable sometimes.

Hope this helps. If Saikee says anything different, go with his advice.

Ah, I see Saikee has replied while I was typing. I'm not a fast typist.

[Goodspeed2211]

saikee can't go with your plan since the installation of OEM XP MCE 05 is different from default XP Pro.

So 1st installed windows.

From here on you can explain.

Regards!

[Goodspeed2211]

One primary partition for Windows.........ok about 30 GB NTFS?

One primary partition for data shared between Windows and Linux.........as much as is possible.........NTFS?

One extended partition containing:

One logical partition for each Linux (10G is a good size)......you mean Root mounted, ext4..... how about 20-40 GB.........is this shared by all Linux distros?

One logical partition for swap (2x RAM).........fine 4 GB.

One logical partition for data shared between different Linux distros, if you wish to do this, (this is my recommendation) OR
One logical partition for /home, if you use only one Linux OS........is home mounted.........if Data can that be NTFS & shared by XP........since I don't plan installing except Kubuntu..........if it can't be shared with XP, despite having a single Linux distro do I need to have a home ext4 mounted & a shared NTFS for XP & Kubuntu?

[Goodspeed2211]

A few questions:

1. XP MCE installed on C size 30GB. Primary NTFS.

2. NTFS data G: 100GB. Primary NTFS.

3. Than can I install Live CD to create an extended partition in the 3rd Primary & than create 3 logical partitions in it> /root 40 GB, /swap 4 GB, /home the rest for Kubuntu only?

4. What about a 150 MB /boot?

Regards!

[Goodspeed2211]

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Queries about a Linux only install:

Install Live CD delete, create partitions using the command you mentioned.

a. What about the /boot 150 MB & it's significance, when & where should it be created & file system?

b. /home for a single Linux distro & /Data for multiple..but preferably on another partition.......strange .........if Linux can share Data with windows why cant 2 Linux?

c. How many primary & extended> logical partitions on 1 HDD for a single Linux distro?

d.Install should be in /root.........size 20-80 GB according to HDD size?
/swap size according to the RAM & all left /home

e. Linux distro needs 4 partitions:
/boot, /root./ swap/ home or Data.............which should be mounted their approx sizes & in which order should they be created?


f. What's this 2 GB /home mount point its significance?

Regards!

[impert]

I hope I haven't confused you.
a. What about the /boot 150 MB & it's significance, when & where should it be created & file system?
You may never need it, but there are file systems (btrfs for instance) which cannot be used for Grub.

b. /home for a single Linux distro & /Data for multiple..but preferably on another partition.......strange .........if Linux can share Data with windows why cant 2 Linux?

Of course 2 Linux - or 200 - can share data. It can cause ownership/permission and configuration file problems, though, if you try to use the same /home with different distros. Hence the data partition. Since you are using XP and Kubuntu only, your data partition where you keep most of your stuff will be NTFS, if I understand correctly.
c. How many primary & extended> logical partitions on 1 HDD for a single Linux distro?

d.Install should be in /root.........size 20-80 GB according to HDD size?
/swap size according to the RAM & all left /home

e. Linux distro needs 4 partitions:
/boot, /root./ swap/ home or Data.............which should be mounted their approx sizes & in which order should they be created?

It's perfectly possible to install Linux (most distros, anyway) in one partition. It is usually considered a good idea, however, to have either a separate /home partition, so that you can simply do a fresh install if you run into problems. The separate /data partition is an alternative which I use to keep all my stuff in one place and to avoid having lots of partitions. Opinions about swap vary, but 2xRAM won't take a large portion of your disc space, you might as well have it.
The installer will look after the order of creating formatting the partitions. Just follow the instructions.
Sizes:We've given you sizes for / (10G), and swap (2xRAM). If you want a /boot partition, 150M is ample. The size of the /home and NTFS data partitions depends entirely on what you want to put into them.


f. What's this 2 GB /home mount point its significance?
I don't understand the question.

[Goodspeed2211]

Thanks for your reply.

1 have 2 questions:

Could you post 2 plans in simple English since am an old MD & new to windows & Linux.

1. Since I have XP installed ( which btw I don't like any more after Kubuntu)..........How to proceed now to install Kubuntu for a dual boot.........simply, in detail & step wise.

2. How to install Kubuntu ONLY...........on the desktop.........shall format XP sine have no data on it & install Kubuntu only.........again simply, in depth & step wise?

Best Regards!

[Goodspeed2211]

I like Kubuntu better than any windows.........wanna install on my desktop & keep windows for the laptop........old retired would like to make an effort to install once..........not as smart comp literate & full of energy like you genius members.

Best Regards!

[saikee]

Goodspeed2211,

With all due respect you are asking a lot of questions we have already answered.

If you want to install another OS into a PC already with a Xp you need unallocated space in a hard disk to create a partition for new OS to reside in. In a standard Xp installation its installer will claim the entire hard disk to be used by Xp in one partition. Therefore you need to "resize" the Xp partition.

This was explained to you in your another thread. (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153342&page=2)

I suggest you to have one partition so that /boot, /home etc are just subdirectories to "/", Thus you have no need to worry about their size as the subdirectories are self expanding and contracting within a single partition. If you want to expand it all you need is to resize one partition in future.

A hard disk can be partitioned by MSdos method, accounted for 99.99%, and gpt method (for disk bigger than 2TB0. In a MSDos hard disk you can have only 4 primaries. You you want more they can only be logical partitions. The border encompassing the logical partitions is called the extended partition which specifies the two end boundaries and has no storage of its own. An extended partition can only be created by giving up one primary partition.

Due to the way the extended partition works there cannot be more than one of it. There has never been a limit written on the number of logical partitions inside an extended partition because each logical partition carried the hard disk address for the next logical partition down and so it can be bottomless. Nevertheless all Linux installer will support 15 partitions in a hard disk. Higher partitions depends on how the partition has been written.

If you make 150 partitions in a hard disk both Linux and MS Windows can boot and use them.

If you give one partition to a Linux and keep a record of it you can multi-boot any number of systems in your PC. Multiple partitions installation for a single distro is encouraged for server applications where you can apply different security measures and ownership to different partitions.

You will do well by restrict your problem one at at time.

My recommendation is tell us if you can resize the existing Xp partition first. If you use Ubuntu Live CD the partition editor, same as Gparted, is in system/adminstration. It is a good practice before resizing to defrag Xp and better still to opt out the virtual memory. It is the page files of the virtual memory in Xp that creates "immovable" file preventing the partition from size changes.

[Goodspeed2211]

Thanks saikee for your reply.

I hope you don't mind my simple, silly questions coz am confused.........I still am not in favor of a dual boot on my desktop..........since Kubuntu can do all, why have XP with it.........like mentioned to keep it a pure Linux machine........though have OEM XP installed?

What exactly do you mean to opt out Virtual memory after defarg........how does one do that?

Best Regards!

[saikee]

What exactly do you mean to opt out Virtual memory after defarg........how does one do that?

In Xp if yopu click Control panel/system/Advanced/settings(under Performance)/Advanced you will see the last section describing "Virtual memory" and the Total paging file size for all drives.

The paging files temporary store your Xp operation and are immovable areas, marked green, if you defrag a hard disk. Thus if you cleck "change" and temporary opt out the virtual memory by zero size then your Xp partition can be easily resized.

After completing the resizing operation you can restore the virtual memory which if not implemented can slow down slightly your Xp operation.

[Goodspeed2211]

You mean to say to DEFRAG HDD, AFTER the page file from it's default values has been set to Zero/NO page file, than once the HDD is resized set the page file back to it's earlier values?

Thanks!

[Goodspeed2211]

Partition created:

1. Size of C 9.08 GB on HDD with PF set at 2046-4092 MB.

2. Size after No Page File: 7.03 GB.

3. Size given to C: 50.70 GB.

4. Size given to Primary NTFS G: 100 GB.

5. After reboot & Page file set to previous: Size of C: 9.02 GB on 50.6 GB.
Size of G: 198 MB on 100 GB.

Disk names are C & G coz of Memory Stick Pro & SD/MMC drives.

This is a experiment /trial to see & learn a dual boot.......either ways if I feel comfortable with it or not I shall clean install again.

Now what next?

Best Regards!

[saikee]

Can you boot up either Ubuntu or Kuntubu Live CD and post here the output of
fdisk -l

[Goodspeed2211]

Sure I shall.

Thanks.

[Goodspeed2211]

Live CD boots but when clicked on try Kubuntu it hangs with a black screen........tried typing the command fdisk -l no output?

[saikee]

fdisk is available in every Linux so try any other Linux Live CD in your possession.

A Live CD normally do not give you the root privilege once booted. In a terminal you can get root privilege by
sudo su for Debian and Ubuntu family distro
In other distro you log in as root by
suand the password is published in the web page of that distro. It can be root, toor or nil (just pressing the return key).

The "fdisk -l " will confirm your partition table to us.

If you get a black screen and the system hangs that means the Linux has failed to match your video card with the correct driver. This can be cured in certain cases but a quick way is to use another distro.

[Goodspeed2211]

1. Couldn't be driver/video card issue as on the same machine ran Live CD & installed Kubuntu only earlier.

2. su > password> authentication failure.

3. sudo su> root@ubuntu:/home/ubuntu#

4. root@ubuntu:/home/ubuntu:/home/ubuntu# su

5. root@ubuntu:/home/ubuntu:/home/ubuntu# sudo fdisk-l

6. /dev/sda1 & /dev/sda2

But all on a black screen..........displays Disk/heads/cylinders etc but cannot start like in a normal Linux install using a Live CD..........no graphical interface........may be the OEM is meant only to run Linux with in windows as tried that the 1st time.

So ill be better off just installing Kubuntu & forget about a dual boot or run Kubuntu with in XP?


Thanks & Best Regards!

[saikee]

fdisk is a terminal program. Having a black screen is normal.

The lion's share of Linux's power lies with the terminal mode.

Normally you can kick start the desktop from a terminal mode by
startx

We need to know you partition layout before advising further.

Typically when you run a Linux installer it should be in graphic mode. You simply select the partition and everything will be installed in less than 10 min.

[Goodspeed2211]

Have a look can't use FF using Konqueror.

[saikee]

Goodspeed2211,

Both your attached files show the following
Disk /dev/sda: 320.1 GB, 320072933376 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 38913 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x34734b0d

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 6618 53159053+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2 6619 19786 105771960 7 HPFS/NTFS
The information indicates your 320Gb hard disk has 38913 cylinders. Out of which sda1 and sda2 occupy between 1 to 6618 and 6619 to 19786 cylinders respectively. Therefore you have approximately 50% of the hard disk with unallocated space.

I recommend you try this command
sudo cfdisk /dev/sda
and create a logical partition of 1Gb and specify it Type no as 82 for swap. The Type No is the partition Id shown in the fdisk -l output.

In addition create another logical partition of say 20Gb and leave the Type No unchanged which is always 83.

You save the partition table by clicking "write". After exiting cfdisk you do another "sudo fdisk -l" and should find the 1Gb partition should be sda5 and the 20Gb partition sda6. The sda3 has not been created by you but nevertheless will up with the cylinder boundary exactly encompassing sda5 and sd6. This is a good lesson to learn about partitioning a hard disk.

If you have created sda5 and sda6 as described you can install Kubuntu. When it comes to partitioning you tell the installer that you are now an expert. It will then show you all the sda1, sda2, sda5 and sd6. You then highlight sda6, mount it as / and format it with Ext4. Continue with the installation and in about 5 minutes later you should have a perfect dual system.

Once you have Kubuntu up and running we shall tell you how to mount the sda2 both manually and automatically.

[Goodspeed2211]

Is this ok..........im on the Live CD machine?

[Goodspeed2211]

another

[JRefL5]

Goodspeed,
I see you are in AZ, are you in the Phoenix metro area?
The Phoenix Linux Users Group (PLUG) usually has an install fest scheduled At UAT, see http://plug.phoenix.az.us/

Someone there can help as several are familiar with xbuntu

[Goodspeed2211]

Thanks saikee,

It's being installed.

1. sda1 & sda2 are XP NTFS system & data 50 & 100 GB.

2. sda5: 1 GB swap......... isn't that less?

3. sda6: 20 GB is 20 fine or should be btw 20-80 GB is that root......./root ext4?

4. What about /home..........that should be on a separate partition?

5. /Shared Data?

6. /Boot..........shouldn't that be in front 150 MB?

7. Is this the way to install Kubuntu only or only for a dual boot?

Regards!

[Goodspeed2211]

Yes phoenix metro

[saikee]

You should use cfdisk again to turn sda6 into Type 83. Type 82 is for swap.

An LInux installer only interests in Type 83 partition. It knows what to do with the swap without an instruction from you.

If you use sda6 to mount as / which is the root of the filing system then /boot, /root, /home etc are subdirectories inside. You have no need to install them separately. Why don't you trust me once to do it the simple way? You can make as many partitions latter on once you have a Linux to play with.

Get it up and running and then I explain how you mount the sda2 as /data. It is better to have your data available both in Xp and Linux, don't you think? or you want to have your personal data goes down with an operating system if you make a mess out of it?

[Goodspeed2211]

Thanks saikee,

1. Here is the output of sudo cfdisk........sda6 turned to Logical > files system is etx3 is that fine > the size is 20 GB is that OK too?

2. Linux/Solaris swap is only 1 GB....what does NC stand for next to swap?

3. Do I need to reboot the machine each time I make changes to the file system/partitions/machine?

3. I feel the machine a bit slow vs as compared to when installed it with in XP, any reasons?

Regards!

[saikee]

(1) If you look at your sda6 it has nothing but empty space below. Therefore you can expand it to take up all the space if you want but this must be done with Gparted which preserves your existing filies and reorganises a new index for you. Using cfdisk and fdisk to alter the partition boundary will destroy its content.

Also if you have useful data you should remove and place it in sda2 which is the idea of not clogging up sda6 or sda1. Got it?

(2) If you look at the system monitoring you will find the 1Gb is rarely used to the full. Linux will use all of memory for swap. A bigger swap is a waste. 1Gb is just a round off unit for convenience. Check the system monitor which show you CPU and swap usage.

No idea. Sometime you do get spurious display. The bootable column is used only by the MS systems and has no meaning outside the first 4 primaries.

(3) It is a good practice that you reboot every time you alter the partition boundaries and type. Always use
fdisk -l to check it

(4) This is becaue the outer tracks have the largest diameters. As the hard disk spins at a constant speed sda1 is therefore faster for access and write. You will find Xp slow and Linux faster if you swap their positions in the hard disk. The speed is marginal and you can improve it by having a hard disk spinning at 72--rpm instead of 5400rpm or go for a SSD.

[Goodspeed2211]

Thanks saikee,

1. I see the empty space below sda6 approx 136 GB.........Kubuntu does not have GParted, how do I install it......what kinds & how many partitions should I create in your personal experienced opinion?

2. No data machine is clean fresh install of XP & Kubuntu.

3. In System monitor > memory & swap usage>swap used is ZERO, & memory approx 356,000 KiB. CPU usage> Core 1 less than 10% Core 2 around 99-100%??

4. sudo su> fdsik -l > tells what after after a reboot?

5. I feel Kubuntu desktop a bit dragging after this dual separate boot........ have this new HDD its a 72K, 16 MB cache WD HDD......how can I swap em..... or could it be coz it's Flash player or / both Java is missing......some hard ware like mouse is less responsive, since can compare vs previous install of Kubuntu in XP on the same machine & thats why I like it big time.

6. Is it possible after all partitions once completed, to reinstall Kubuntu or delete XP all together & just have Kubuntu?

7. Personally I prefer a single OS, one car, one house & one gf lol.

8. Back in the 90s used to work at The Middlesex Hospital Central London off Oxford St.

Best Regards!

[Goodspeed2211]

FF graphics are defiantly slow now..........seems very bloated.........so is the browsing.......I feel I'll later have Kubuntu only why keep XP just for a peace of mind when I use Kubuntu all the time on this machine?

[Goodspeed2211]

saikee I reinstalled Kubuntu by simply erasing all disk........its fast & responsive as earlier not dragging any more CPU core 2 is down to 10 from 99.

Now I have a single Linux distro.....Kubuntu can you have a look at the drive structure & assist?

Plan to install Ubuntu with KDE desktop on both machines.

No more windows.

Thanks & regards!

[Goodspeed2211]

saikee how would you customize partitions of my laptop's HDD?

[saikee]

Goodspeed2211,

Now you have boxed yourself into a fox hole by making a large partition, nearly 100Gb, for Kubuntu and no space left for other OS.

Since you mention Ubuntu now I assume you want to install into this 100Gb hard disk and this is would be my suggestion.

Hard disk space doesn't grow on trees you know.

The only way you can get out of this hole is to resize sda1 with Gparted. Say drag its right hand side boundary to about 50Gb leaving another 50 Gb free for the later installation of Ubuntu.

The resizing should be done with a Linux Live CD. If you use Ubuntu as a Live CD you will find Gparted inside ready to go. The reason to use a Live CD is simple. Would you like someone ask you to cut off part of yourself off while you are conscious? This is equivalent to tell an operating system to reduce its footprint while it is operational. If you do it with a Live CD then the Kubuntu is just a patient to the Live CD which can cut up Kubuntu without any complaint from it.

After resizing you can run Kubuntu again (or just use Ubuntu) and use cfdisk to create sda3 for Ubuntu installation. Remember it must have a Type 83 which is the default partition type in all Linux partitioning tools. You disk has sda2 as an extended partition and its end coincides with the end of the hard disk. You therefore can never have any more logical partition (hence the term "fox hole" I use to describe your situation). You still have 2 primary partitions unclaimed so if you resize your 100Gb hard as I described above to create sda3 (and even sda4 if you use the space for two partitions).

Therefore no matter how hard you try you hard disk is fully subscribed and no more partition can made out of it.

The morale of the story is do not give all the hard disk space to one OS unless you have no intention of installing a second one.