Where do I start, exactly?

[Sortevik]

Hello, everyone. Looks like this is the first thread by a newb in the Newbie Corner.

Anyhow. I suppose this thread shall serve as an introduction to the community and a desperate plea for help, all rolled into one! Hooray!

First things first. I'm Sortevik. (In case anybody wants to know, no, I'm not Russian. Well, maybe a little, but not enough to classify myself as one.) I'm sixteen years old, and I'm a Windows geek. (Stop laughing; not all of us were introduced to the Ways of Truth as early as you were.) I've been very involved with computers (hardware and software) since I was about twelve, and I love them. I'm hoping to have a career that integrates computer science somehow, blah blah blah, you know the drill.

So partly out of curiosity, partly out of a need to be able to one-up my school's Apple elitist, and partly out of the fact that I like learning new things, I have decided to start switching from Windows to Linux.

Right now, I'm running Ubuntu 7.0.4. I've tried a few distros already (Fedora 7, DSL, Knoppix, and, of course, Ubuntu) and I like Ubuntu the best by far, for whatever reason.

So I have almost no idea what to do. Since I'm a musician and I have become proficient at using Image-Line FL Studio and I like making music and all, I decided to teach myself some of the basics by downloading and installing Rosegarden.

An hour and approximately thirty Firefox tabs later, I'm still going nowhere fast. Nothing seems to want to install, as everything I try to install demands that something else be installed first. When I go to get that to install it, it demands that about five more things be installed first, and on and on and on.

Where can I go to get a crash-course in starting out with Linux for the first time? Is there a good guide somewhere on this site? Forgive me for not looking around, but due to the fact that I'm only sixteen and my mom still makes all the rules, bedtime is imminent and I barely have time to type this.

Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks in advance.

-Sortevik

[saikee]

Sortevik,

Welcome to Just Linux.

I have edited your thread to make your question standing out, as this is the key of your thread.

I think you may have to be more specific with the area of interest.

The top right hand corner of the this page has a help files library. That is a good point to start. There is also a help file forum.

I normally just use a text book like "Linux in in a nutshell" by Siever, Figgins & Webber as a reference to get more than the "man" pages you can get with every terminal command.

You also mentioned the problem of installing packages, apparently in Ubuntu. That should warrant a separate thread because it may be a general package problem with apt-get or it can also specific to the software you after. From my own experience getting a standard software out of the repository normally should eb truble free.

[mrrangerman43]

Here is a some ebooks to read, I'd download the .pdf file into a directory and read at your own pleasure.

E-Books (http://freebooks.homelinux.org/index.php)

Start with the Linux bible, then take a look a the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy
Have fun.

[dannybunkins]

Those are excellent places to start learning about linux, but to help you with the problem you are having with installing rosegarden, know this:

Ubuntu has an APT package management system that allows you to install applications and all of their dependencies automatically.

to install rosegarden, try typing this into the terminal (to open a terminal go to Applications-> Accessories ->Terminal)

sudo aptitude install rosegarden

that should download the Rosegarden application and all of its dependencies and install them for you automatically.

hope that helps,

and

welcome to JustLinux!

-dannybunkins

[Sortevik]

Wow. Thanks everyone!

I'm starting to get a feel for how Linux works. And dannybunkins, thanks so much for that! That's pretty much incredible. It's installing right now. I think I'm going to like this OS.

As of right now, all my problems are solved. But I'm sure I'll come up with a few new ones here shortly. Until then, thanks very much.

-Sortevik

[ehawk]

I would use synaptic to install packages in Ubuntu. It is a user-friendly graphical front end for the apt-get package management system. It easily allows you to add additional repositories (some that ubuntu does not enable by default) and to search for relevant packages by both package name and description. It also suggests related packages to install. These things are offered by apt-get at the command line and aptitude (between apt-get and synaptic in terns of user-friendly appeal), but they look more intuitive in the non-keyboard-centric, mouse/tab/menu driven style of synaptic.

[blackbelt_jones]

I would use synaptic to install packages in Ubuntu. It is a user-friendly graphical front end for the apt-get package management system. It easily allows you to add additional repositories (some that ubuntu does not enable by default) and to search for relevant packages by both package name and description. It also suggests related packages to install. These things are offered by apt-get at the command line and aptitude (between apt-get and synaptic in terns of user-friendly appeal), but they look more intuitive in the non-keyboard-centric, mouse/tab/menu driven style of synaptic.

Well, the choice is always yours, but since you've already used apt at the command line, and clearly liked it, I think you should know about these commands.

apt-cache search (keyword)
will search all the packages in the apt database.

apt-get install (package name)
will... well, I think you can see that this is pretty simple.

These two commands are pretty much all you need to access thousand and thousands of packages, and all their dependancies. (Dependancies are a big deal in Linux)

There are other commands of course.

apt-get upgrade
apt-get update
apt-get remove
apt-get dist-upgrade

and here's a fancy one that will get you a two-term boolean search
apt-cache search (term1) | grep (term2) less
(at least I think that's how it goes. Can anyone tell me if I get the syntax right here? I'm not using a Debian-based distro right now. Caution: may not work)

If you like using the command line, please use it whenever it's comfortable and convenient, because that's where the power is. People who try Linux and complain that it's just a cheap copy of windows invariably have never explored the command line. Linux is working toward the day, not far off, when the user won't have to use the command line at all. That's fine, but using Linux without using the command line is like travelling all over the world (for an american) and only eating at McDonald's and KFC. You've come a long way not to get the full experience.

And the command line isn't necessarily separate from the desktop. It's a part of the desktop, and that means you don't have to use it all the time. You use it only when it empowers you, when it suits you. It's nothing to be afraid of. Mastering a couple of commands is really all it takes to carry you over the threshold.

[bwkaz]

apt-cache search (term1) | grep (term2) less
(at least I think that's how it goes. Can anyone tell me if I get the syntax right here? I'm not using a Debian-based distro right now. Caution: may not work) More like:

apt-cache search (term1) | grep (term2) | less (Although the "| less" at the end is only to let you scroll through the results at your leisure; it's not actually required.)

To explain (since I'm pretty sure blackbelt_jones already knows this): There's a long Unix tradition of writing lots of simple tools that do one thing well, and chaining them together when you need to do multiple things; this is a great example. "apt-cache search (term1)" (though I should note: don't actually use the parentheses) will give you all the cache entries that contain (term1). Then, grep is a tool that will take its input, search through it for lines that match a pattern (which is given as its argument), and pass the matching lines through to its output. Finally, less is a tool that takes input and displays it one screenful at a time (letting you scroll forward and backward, and even search if you want to).

The pipe characters (that is, "|") "plumb" these various tools together: they take the output of apt-cache, feed it into grep (which means grep searches the output of apt-cache), and then take the output of grep and feed it into less (which displays it). Three (mostly-) simple independent tools that can be strung together to do a multi-term search and page through the results. ;)

[blackbelt_jones]

Thanks. I used to know that.:mad:

More like:

apt-cache search (term1) | grep (term2) | less (Although the "| less" at the end is only to let you scroll through the results at your leisure; it's not actually required.)

To explain (since I'm pretty sure blackbelt_jones already knows this): There's a long Unix tradition of writing lots of simple tools that do one thing well, and chaining them together when you need to do multiple things; this is a great example. "apt-cache search (term1)" (though I should note: don't actually use the parentheses) will give you all the cache entries that contain (term1). Then, grep is a tool that will take its input, search through it for lines that match a pattern (which is given as its argument), and pass the matching lines through to its output. Finally, less is a tool that takes input and displays it one screenful at a time (letting you scroll forward and backward, and even search if you want to).

The pipe characters (that is, "|") "plumb" these various tools together: they take the output of apt-cache, feed it into grep (which means grep searches the output of apt-cache), and then take the output of grep and feed it into less (which displays it). Three (mostly-) simple independent tools that can be strung together to do a multi-term search and page through the results. ;)

Awesome, isn't it? This is a great example what I mean about the command line being where the power is. There are other examples. Instead of piping one command into another with the pipe, you can simply stack commands one upon another with semicolons, and you can create text files called scripts that will execute commands in sequence. These are ways of automating processes. Things that used to take long boring hours of click click click can be made to do themselves while you take it easy.

I myself am a long way from mastering this, but my ability grows bit by bit by bit, with each new discvovery. I never stop learning, and it never stops being new for me.

[Sortevik]

Wow. Linux is getting more amazing the more I find out about it. I'm super-impressed.

Also, I appreciate how friendly and nice you all are around here. Thanks for taking the time to post tips in my topic.

Then again, I've been told that helping people and quietly being simply better, etc. is just part of the Linux community tradition.

-Sortevik

[saikee]

Sortevik ,

There you have it.

I am just a partially grow-up newbies.

blackbelt_jones and others are experienced and knowledgeable members here.

bwkaz is one of our "villege elders" (wise men of the Justlinux villege) although age wise he is just a spring chicken.

[crow2icedearth]

check out tldp.org for how two............ I would sugest reading the doc manuals with your distro. The most important thing is dont give up. and keep asking questions. I am in a linux user group that meets every month. I would suggest you see if there are any groups around you that meet. Its a good way to learn alot quickly.


join the distro list servs.... and ask questions.
learn unix commands and linux commands

[blackbelt_jones]

check out tldp.org for how two............ I would sugest reading the doc manuals with your distro. The most important thing is dont give up. and keep asking questions. I am in a linux user group that meets every month. I would suggest you see if there are any groups around you that meet. Its a good way to learn alot quickly.


join the distro list servs.... and ask questions.
learn unix commands and linux commands


I learned a lot of what I know from hanging out in the unofficial JustLinux chat. that's #linuxn00b on irc.freenode.org. Let us know if you need any help getting started with IRC chat. In here, it's all about Linux, but in the chat, I'd say that we talk about Linux maybe a third of the time. It's a friendly place to visit, and you can learn things very naturally, a little bit at a time.

I'll tell you a secret. Here in the forum, some of the really knowlegable Linux gurus among us will balk if they think you're trying to use them to avoid finding the answer yourself. But in the chat room, all you have to do is be affable, entertaining, and patient, and you won't probably won't have to wait very long to get a linux guru talking on his favorite subject. :cool: This is how I learned about 60 per cent of what I know.


blackbelt_jones and others are experienced and knowledgeable members here.

God, I love hearing that. :D Not that long ago, I was the dumbest guy in here.

I consider myself an expert on not being an expert. It was a long painful struggle for me to get Linux. I consider it my contribution to the community to help others avoid all that. I'm still getting it, but it's no longer a struggle.

Where can I go to get a crash-course in starting out with Linux for the first time?

Well, a "crash course" sounds painful. If you want a comprehensive overview off all of Linux, there's the Rute user guide:

http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz

According to some really hard core gurus around here, this is the place to start, if you really want to know your s***, inside and out. I've been meaning to read it myself one of these days. It's pretty dense. Here's the introduction:


1. Introduction
Whereas books shelved beside this one will get your feet wet, this one lets you actually paddle for a bit, then thrusts your head underwater while feeding you oxygen.

Or you can just get familiar with the KDE desktop, (or gnome if you prefer) learn the basics about managing permissions and so on, and settle down for a nice enjoyable long-term learning experience.

My own approach to learning Linux was rather novel. I couldn't really do anything with it in the beginning, so I would install it. I'd download distros and install them, uninstall them and reinstall them. About once a day for three years, and that's 1000 installs. What did I learn from that?
Well, I learned to be fearless, for one thing. I learned that I could always fix my system by reinstalling it, no matter how bad I screwed it up.

Above all, don't give up. Any idiotic approach you care to take to learning Linux will work eventually if you don't give up. I'm living proof.

[saikee]

And I learn mine from reading what blackbelt_jones has written in the posts.

[blackbelt_jones]

And I learn mine from reading what blackbelt_jones has written in the posts.

Like I said... any idiotic approach.;)

[crazeebob2000]

I learned a lot of what I know from hanging out in the unofficial JustLinux chat. that's #linuxn00b on irc.freenode.org. Let us know if you need any help getting started with IRC chat. In here, it's all about Linux, but in the chat, I'd say that we talk about Linux maybe a third of the time. It's a friendly place to visit, and you can learn things very naturally, a little bit at a time.

I'll tell you a secret. Here in the forum, some of the really knowlegable Linux gurus among us will balk if they think you're trying to use them to avoid finding the answer yourself. But in the chat room, all you have to do is be affable, entertaining, and patient, and you won't probably won't have to wait very long to get a linux guru talking on his favorite subject. :cool: This is how I learned about 60 per cent of what I know.


God, I love hearing that. :D Not that long ago, I was the dumbest guy in here.

I consider myself an expert on not being an expert. It was a long painful struggle for me to get Linux. I consider it my contribution to the community to help others avoid all that. I'm still getting it, but it's no longer a struggle.



Well, a "crash course" sounds painful. If you want a comprehensive overview off all of Linux, there's the Rute user guide:

http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz

According to some really hard core gurus around here, this is the place to start, if you really want to know your s***, inside and out. I've been meaning to read it myself one of these days. It's pretty dense. Here's the introduction:




Or you can just get familiar with the KDE desktop, (or gnome if you prefer) learn the basics about managing permissions and so on, and settle down for a nice enjoyable long-term learning experience.

My own approach to learning Linux was rather novel. I couldn't really anything with it in the beginning, so I would install it. I'd download distros and install them, uninstall them and reinstall them. About once a day for three years, and that's 1000 installs. What did I learn from that?
Well, I learned to be fearless, for one thing. I learned that I could always fix my system by reinstalling it, no matter how bad I screwed it up.

Above all, don't give up. Any idiotic approach you care to take to learning Linux will work eventually if you don't give up. I'm living proof.
I fully agree,it's how I learned to do Windoze xp, trial and error, I must have reinstalled it a hundred times. The trick is not being afraid to mess with it, for me anyway. I'm running PClinuxOS now and I've arready messed it up a few times, but I'm having fun learning. By the way, say hi to the new dumbest guy in here :) me.

[saikee]

crazeebob2000 ,

There a few of us pretty dumb too. I may be slightly above you by knowing how to clone the operating systems like XP and Vista. Despite having messed them a hundred times I manage to avoid the need to reinstall any of them.

If God doesn't like dumb people he wouldn't have given us the computer.

With a computer we don't need to know "how". If there is a way to judge a solution is correct we can ask the computer to test or to scan all the possibilities within the range and find us the solution for us. Trial and error is a decent and in some cases the only learning method for many of us.

So it pays to be dumb.

[Sortevik]

Wow. That Rute book is now bookmarked. I'll be reading it and using it as a reference. In fact, it's not that expensive... I may just buy it. Having a physical book spread open on your desk in front of you beats the life out of reading PDF files in a Firefox tab.

I'd love to join you all in IRC. I'll check it out as soon as I have the chance (I'm being hustled off by my mom 'cos she needs stuff done around the house at the moment).

Again, thanks for all your advice. Before I started using Linux much, I was trying to get a MP3 file to play in Linux. I asked a friend who was a Linux user. He said he didn't know exactly how it was done (his distro came with a functional MP3 codec or something), so I should ask on a Linux forum, "where several hundred people will race to answer your questions." He was right, indeed.

-Sortevik

[djrsml]

Here is a couple of links that deal with installing software in Ubuntu ! http://monkeyblog.org/ubuntu/installing/
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installingsoftware
Lots of good stuff in this thread!

[crazeebob2000]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the tips.

[David38400]

Hi Sortevik, firstly congratulations on your fabulous English and only 16 years old!!
I'm just switching from Windows XP to Linux too and can't honestly say that I'm very much looking forward to it as it won't be easy. I have chosen to start with UBUNTU too.
I was checking the Linux.org page and they do have courses for starters. I have just started reading it. Perhaps it may be of help to you.
Their website is www.linux.org and on the left hand side down the list is COURSES.
Good luck we are both going to need it, but I'm sure it will be very worthwhile.

[loopback48]

My own approach to learning Linux was rather novel. I couldn't really anything with it in the beginning, so I would install it. I'd download distros and install them, uninstall them and reinstall them. About once a day for three years, and that's 1000 installs. What did I learn from that?
Well, I learned to be fearless, for one thing. I learned that I could always fix my system by reinstalling it, no matter how bad I screwed it up.

Good advice. For too long I was hesitant in reinstalling a distro. Especially when I put a lot of work in it. Once I got over that fear, it was nothing to reinstall and start from scratch. Redoing something I had already done just reinforced that operation.

So just jump in and rip it a new one. You'll learn a lot.

[Sortevik]

I'd like to join you all in IRC, but I don't have any idea how to get started...

-Sortevik