To make a long story short, I'm a Mac user who recently tried to get back into Linux when my Powerbook needed to be serviced. I dug up old copies of Red Hat 8.0 and Knoppix but decided to upgrade to Fedora 7.
I was able to connect to the internet with both Knoppix & RH 8.0 and, after downloading the boot.iso, was able to install Fedora through the internet. That's the end of me being able to connect though.
I sought help from the Fedora Forums and received a lot of helpful advice but still no luck.
Background information:
My home "network" consists of:
- 3 Dell XPS M1710 laptops (currently on one)
- 1 17" Powerbook (currently MIA)
- 1 old Dell Dimension 4500 (!) which boots Fedora 7
- Linksys Wireless G Broadband Router with Speed Boost (model #WRT54GS)
- cable modem
Both the cable modem and Dimension physically connect to the router. Everything else is connected wirelessly.
If I can provide any additional information, please let me know.
banzaikai
10-16-2007, 03:41 AM
Just so we're on the same page here...
I was able to connect to the internet with both Knoppix & RH 8.0
Was this on the DD4500 also? My initial guess was that you've got a bad cable, being the errors reported shows practically nothing going in or out. If a Knoppix can connect on the same machine as F7, then that's not the problem, but check anyway:
- Swap the Cat-5 cable with a known working one
- Try a different port on the router
- Peek into the RJ-45 jack on the DD4500 and see if any of the wires look like their "fingers" got crossed. If so, a simple coaxing with a small paperclip will pop them back into place.
- What model ethernet card is in there? It may be misidentified by F7 (if Knoppix is working, then just run a /sbin/lspci and /sbin/lsmod to find out what devices/modules it found, and compare them to what F7 is finding.
The GUI option in F7 for configuring the network (System -> Administration -> Network) is a full-featured program in its own right - see if that tells you anything. Note: you don't have to restart your computer to try things - just use the "Activate/Deactivate" buttons on the "Devices" tab to restart the eth# interface. You can also look on the "Hardware" tab to find out what card F7 found.
banzai "nut working" kai
saikee
10-16-2007, 07:41 AM
Alternatively I would boot back to Knoppix. WHen the internat is working I issue this command at the terminal
ifconfigthat would tell me what IP address the router has assigned to the PC and what network card it is functional.
As already pointed out by other I believe in Red Hat distros there is a function at the desktop that one can see all the network cards, select one to highlight and click activate.
In root console I get by issuing either
dhclient eth0
dhclient eth1ordhcpcd eth0
dhcpcd eth1if one fires up then the Internet will be available immediately.
Jestah
10-16-2007, 09:51 AM
Was this on the DD4500 also?
Yes, the same computer connected to the internet fine with Knoppix & RH 8.0. Also, not having a DVD burner on that computer, I downloaded the smaller boot.iso and installed the rest over the internet. That's what makes my problems so perplexing.
Alternatively I would boot back to Knoppix. WHen the internat is working I issue this command at the terminal
ifconfigthat would tell me what IP address the router has assigned to the PC and what network card it is functional.
When I said I was able to sign online using Knoppix and RH 8.0, it was a very old copy of Knoppix (possibly pre-1.0). I had some free time so I decided to download and boot the newest copy of Knoppix. I was unable to connect to the internet and received identical messages to what I received in Fedora.
My Demension is old. Could this be a reason?
saikee
10-16-2007, 06:38 PM
It does look your old Knoppix has managed to obtain an IP address 192.168.1.111 from the router, using a generic network driver matching your network card.
Now in Fedora if you click "System", then "Administration" then "network" you should see a "Network Configuration" screen showing the network devices available. You can click "eth0" as it was fired up before and click "Activate". This should force Fedora to start the detection again. If successful you will see the "status" become "active". Your Internet should then be usable.
If it doesn't you can "edit" the device. I normally just select "dhcp" so that the router assigns freely an IP address to the PC.
bwkaz
10-16-2007, 06:58 PM
In Fedora, what do the following say?
/usr/sbin/lspci -n
lsmod ? The first will show which PCI IDs are allocated to your NIC (along with all your other devices). The "-n" prevents it from turning the IDs into a name (but the ID is critical to getting the correct driver loaded, so that's what I think we need).
The second will list all loaded kernel modules (aka drivers). It's possible that no driver has claimed your NIC (though I don't think it's likely; anyway, this is the first place to start ;)). If you don't see "tulip" in that list, then Fedora's kernel "tulip" driver won't bind to your NIC (perhaps support has been removed for your hardware? probably not likely, but possible).
If you do see "tulip" listed, then run dmesg | grep eth to see the kernel messages that refer to any Ethernet device (and post them here so we can see them too). There may be a clue in there.
Also, double-check your routing tables (/sbin/ip route show). If you don't have a route to the IP you're trying to ping, you'll get a "network unreachable" error.
banzaikai
10-17-2007, 02:04 AM
My Demension is old. Could this be a reason?
02:02.0 Ethernet controller: Davicom Semiconductor, Inc. Ethernet 100/10 MBit (rev 31)
dmfe 11905 1
Yup.
All I needed was the card type (Davicom), and a quick check with Google gave me this (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/48026).
It looks like a bug crept in that IDs the chip as a tulip, when it should be loading up the "dmfe" module (as your older knoppix is correctly doing). Follow the instructions in the link above and see what happens...
banzai "buggy bastard" kai
phlipant
10-17-2007, 02:08 PM
If you are setting up a server, all that work may be worth it. But, if you are setting up a dhcp client, why not use NetworkManager. It sets up your network automagically.
PS I just upgraded from FC6 to FC7. I must admit I am disappointed. If I had to do it again, I would have waited and gone from FC6 to FC8.
Jestah
10-25-2007, 12:00 AM
Yup.
All I needed was the card type (Davicom), and a quick check with Google gave me this (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/48026).
It looks like a bug crept in that IDs the chip as a tulip, when it should be loading up the "dmfe" module (as your older knoppix is correctly doing). Follow the instructions in the link above and see what happens...
banzai "buggy bastard" kai
You made me one happy guy Banzai. That worked perfectly. Thank you very much.
jg1
10-25-2007, 07:13 PM
I think I got the same problem as you Jestah only I'm so new to this game I can't make sense of the instructions from Banzai. Sorry to be so dim....
Last weekend I just built a test box from 2 old Packard Bell m/cs cast off by the family. Loaded up Win 2k and it ran like a dream - 2 cd-writers, 2 hard drives, ethernet card, the whole shebang. Loaded Fedora 2 and that seemed to be OK but before I make the switch from Microsoft, I needed to see if I could get better compatibility with MS Office 2003 so loaded Fedora 4 - not enough memory to load later versions. But Fedora 4 can't activate the ethernet card although it correctly identifies it as EP-320X-S1. I've checked the cable and tried 2 different routers on the home network. Also I can't see the Linux box from either of the routers.
What I need to try is to swap the drivers but haven't a clue how to start. I know how to do it on my MS systems but I need to learn how to do it on Linux. My DIY Linux book doesn't help although I've not got further than the first couple of chapters so far.
Help! Is anyone willing to talk me through it in words of one syllable, pls?
jg
saikee
10-25-2007, 07:40 PM
jg1
Welcome to Justlinux !
I think you stand a better chance of kicking start all the hardware with a more modern Linux, like a Puppy or a member of the Slax family. Fedora is into version 8 and FC4 was released possibly 2.5 years ago.
jg1
10-26-2007, 02:56 AM
Happy to give that a go. Only reason for picking Fedora was a free e-book that seemed to be painting by numbers that I could understand. It also had Open Office which (in its 2.3 version) behaves like and interoperates with the MS stuff I need for work. If one of those other systems will run in 127MB main memory with Open Office in the distro and not kill an 8GB drive I'll go for it. If it solves the ethernet problem as well, it's like party time!
jg
banzaikai
10-26-2007, 04:53 AM
from: Jestah
You made me one happy guy Banzai. That worked perfectly. Thank you very much.
Aw, shucks... 'twern't nothin'. Hey! I think that puts me at five things I helped fix around here... I'm an Ace!
Actually, the folks at the *buntu forum linked should get all the credit. Remember, it's a Linux community - distro doesn't really matter.
from: saikee
like a Puppy or a member of the Slax family. Fedora is into version 8 and FC4 was released possibly 2.5 years ago.
{Mr. Horse}Errr... No, sir - I don't like it! {/Mr. Horse}
Taking a (relative) newbie and having him/her switch distros mid-stream is not the way to do things. I'd suggest doing what got Jestah up and running: a Live distro (Knoppix, etc.). If you can get one to boot and load up the correct driver (module), then it's a simple matter to remove the non-working module from the FC4, and modprobe the working one in (as Jestah just did).
FYI, Fedora tries to get out a major release about every six months, so FC4 would be about 1.5-2 years old - more recent than XP or Win2K3.
from: jg1
But Fedora 4 can't activate the ethernet card although it correctly identifies it as EP-320X-S1.
My searching indicates that card type had numerous manufacturers (Surecom, PC World, Realtek, etc.), and may have the same problem that Jestah had with his card: misidentification. You stated that FC2 worked with it. If this is a PCI card, then I'd see if you could shove it in a spare box, install FC2 on it, and run the /sbin/lsmod command in a terminal (or open up the "System -> Administration -> Network" menu) to see which module works with it. Another big help would be to just peek at the chip(s) on the card, and see if you can tell who made the card. Then we can determine which is the proper module to use for it (don't worry, we'll walk you through it - piece 'o' cake).
banzai "Ummm... Cake!" kai
saikee
10-26-2007, 05:36 AM
banzaikai,
Thanks for showing the details of the correct way of removing the unworkable driver and modprobe the correct one.
I have been taking the easy way out by switching to the newer distros that don't normally give the trouble.
banzaikai
10-27-2007, 05:57 AM
Well, it's not so much the newer/older distro as it is the kernel. If developers were to keep all the old modules while adding all the new ones that are needed, we'd have a kernel as big as... well... Vista's!
So, to help keep things small, they just use the ID method of determining the proper module. This means that one little typo or error in the database results in the wrong module loading. For that matter, I wish manufacturers would change chip suppliers less often, or use another (easier) way of letting everyone know there's been a chip change. Then, instead of loading up a useless module, it'd just fail to modprobe. I feel it's better to have a non-loading module than a loaded module that doesn't work - poor newbies see the module loaded, but can't get the hardware going, so they assume they (or Linux) really suck at installing things.
Now, if one knows that the correct module was loaded with an earlier version, then it's a simple matter to just:
{old_distro} -> /sbin/lspci #see what the heck you've got in there
{old_distro} -> /sbin/lsmod #check for module loaded and working
{new_distro} -> /sbin/lsmod #check for module loaded and not working
{new_distro} -> /sbin/rmmod module_name #get rid of bad module
{new_distro} -> /sbin/modprobe old_module_name #load up module from old distro's list
I've helped out with this problem a couple of times, and it seems to happen to Fedora and Ubuntu distros more often than others (perhaps because these distros tend to update releases more often, hence, more chance of an error sneaking through).
For Newbies:
lsmod = LiSt MODules
lspci = LiSt PCI devices (usually includes AGP/PCIe as well)
modprobe = MODule PROBE for matching hardware, and load if found
rmmod = ReMove MODule
/sbin/ = System BINaries (directory where these commands should be sitting)
jg1:
I don't know what class of computer those PBs are, but I've got Fedora (no longer "Core") 7 running just fine on my P-III 600MHz (Slot 1!) with 384MB RAM and two 20GB HDs with an Adaptec SCSI, Intel Pro 100 NIC, Crystal 87xx sound, and nVidia GF2 card in there to make things interesting. F7 found and installed everything without issue. Kinda pokey running Xorg, but gets the job done...
banzai "old school" kai
saikee
10-27-2007, 09:04 AM
banzaikai,
Can I request you to put your post #19, may be re-written slightly as a general or distro-specific tip, and post is in the "How I Did it" Section, with a heading of something like "How to resolve a network card that works in one distro but not in the another?
You can also opt for putting it in the "Newbies Corner" if you think the material is more suitable for the newbies. I think it is good enough for either. Nice, short and informative personal experience is very helpful.
You can edit it from time to time to bring it up to date if you see fit.
It is just another "kind" of help files we could build up progressively.
I could move you material to the relevant section but it is far better done by the author himself/herself. It is a shame to see good information buried in the middle of a thread.
banzaikai
10-28-2007, 07:47 AM
Sure, but only if it actually fixes jg1's problem :D
I'll throw it in the Newbie's section with an appropriately comical title (and extra Ranch Dressing...).
The last "How I done did it" I done did was getting Japanese working on RH7-9, which is amazingly simple to do on all of the newer distros (SCIM).
banzai "Yippe-Kimi-ga-yo, mofo-san!" kai
jg1
10-28-2007, 07:49 AM
Tks for the info. Will do the checks and test asap, but at moment away from home for 2 weeks. Tks for the welcome, guys. I don't feel as lost as I did a week ago. Will let you know how I go on.
jg1
11-05-2007, 03:14 PM
Hi Banzaikai
I've done a load of poking about and now have more info about the PB which may be similar to that reported at
http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147379
Let me explain....
I pulled the box apart and there was nothing interesting written on the Ethernet card. I didn't recognise any of the numbers except EP-320X-S1 preceded by a couple of Japanese or Chinese characters. It was almost certainly supplied by PC World but to my knowledge they don't make anything.
To check the m/c was still working OK I reloaded Win2K and checked out the drivers for the Ethernet card. These were clearly for a MYSON EP-320X-S/S1.
I then stumbled on 2 sets of more or less identical drivers on the internet One was for a SURECOM 100/10M card and the other was for a
MYSON Technology Inc SURECOM EP-320X-S 100/10M Ethernet PCI Adapter
Checking through the Readme files for both sets of drivers it said...
<<The Linux driver for Myson MDT8xx compatible MAC chipset on
this adapter has been embedded into Linux systems since kernel
version 2.4.5, and this makes this adapter automatically detected
and installed with the driver supported by Linux system.>>
As I understand it the version I am trying to run is 2.6.11 so it should all be OK. Next I did a couple of tests that were suggested earlier...
[root@localhost ~]# /sbin/ifconfig -a
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:44:3B:CF:92
BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:308 (308.0 b)
Interrupt:10 Base address:0xb800
[root@localhost ~]# dmesg | grep eth
eth0: 100/10M Ethernet PCI Adapter at 0001b800, 00:02:44:3b:cf:92, IRQ 10.
[root@localhost ~]# /sbin/ip route show
169.254.0.0/16 dev lo scope link
[root@localhost ~]#
These seem to say to me that Linux recognises the Ethernet card correctly.
It also seems to have loaded up the right driver although the Readme file quotes it as fealnx.o. This is mentioned about halfway down the output from
dmesg | less
Linux version 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 (bhcompile@decompose.build.redhat.com) (gcc version 4.0.0 20050525 (Red Hat 4.0.0-9)) #1 Thu Jun 2 22:55:56 EDT 2005
.............
fealnx.c:v2.51 Nov-17-2001
eth0: 100/10M Ethernet PCI Adapter at 0001b800, 00:02:44:3b:cf:92, IRQ 10.
.............
(END)
Reading the other thread mentioned above, I came to the conclusion that it ma simply be a config problem but have so far been unable to make any headway towards a solution. Any ideas?
Please cheer me up, I'm feeling gloomy!
jg1
banzaikai
11-06-2007, 03:15 PM
As I understand it the version I am trying to run is 2.6.11 so it should all be OK.
Okay, you're getting off track a bit. What you have to ask yourself is, "If I'm having trouble finding out what card this is, then how sure should I be that the kernel is loading the right module?".
So, let's look at what the output of your /sbin/lsmod is telling you. There may be a bug or typo in the module list that has this card loading up the RealTek 8139 module, when it needs the MDT80x (Surecom) module. Savvy?
From what I can deduce, the "-S" is the Surecom, and the "-R" is the RealTek. I'm guessing it's: EP = Ethernet, PCI / 320X = Model / -S = Surecom chipset. If you have the RealTek, then it'd be: EP-320X-R. There was also an NE-2000 card made, but I'm betting it was an ISA/EISA/MCI type.
So, we're fairly sure we need the Surecom module (mdt80x) loading, and NOT the rtl81xx or 8139too module. So, take a peek at the modules loaded and see what's in there.
BTW, I just looked in my kernel files, and the fealnx.ko mentions the MTD-8xx chipset, so it should be the right one...
After we've got the right module (without errors) loaded, then we'll pop into the network config and see what's what.
banzai "not very cheery right now" kai
jg1
11-06-2007, 05:31 PM
Not sure if I'm totally savvy here but the output of /sbin/lsmod seems to say we are looking at fealnx.....
Can't see anything that speaks to me but then I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at. However I'm fairly certain I need the SURECOM driver. What I don't understand at the moment is how to check for it and
1) If it's wrong, fix it
2) If it's not wrong, to sort out the network config to make it work.
What next?
jg1
jg1
11-11-2007, 05:57 AM
After we've got the right module (without errors) loaded, then we'll pop into the network config and see what's what.
Banzaikai
I'm now pretty sure I've got the right drivers and it's just a config pb. It might be because of RAM shortage...but then Win2k runs fine, if a bit slow.
I have successfully run up Knoppix 3.2 with full internet access with no problems. I've also loaded Knoppix 5.1.1 which works OK too, but I have pbs in loading up programs - probably due to limited RAM and running from CD. I have successfully loaded up Puppy Linux - it accesses Internet fine but it's a bit primitive.
So I'm going to give Fedora one last try with a different (smaller) build and see if that helps. Otherwise I am shall to have to kick Fedora into touch and look for an alternative distro. Any recommendations, given my config....127MB RAM, PentiumIII, 8GB hard drive, CD and Floppy? Basic requirements are Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, and a graphics package. Sound would be nice but no speakers at the moment!
I could start with Puppy and build my own but that seems a bit daunting and too technical for me at the moment.
Will let you know how I go on with skimpy Fedora
jg1
jg1
11-13-2007, 04:01 PM
Banzaikai
.......So I'm going to give Fedora one last try with a different (smaller) build and see if that helps. ...... an alternative distro. .....I could start with Puppy and build my own but that seems a bit daunting and too technical for me at the moment.
Will let you know how I go on with skimpy Fedora
jg1
Well, a lot of water has gone under the bridge....I've had another go with Fedora but no luck even with an old version and the bare minimum package, so I've headed off on another tack with Ubuntu. I know it's defeatest but life's too short.
I've put together a baseline xubuntu setup which works like a dream but I don't seem to have enough system utilities. That's another story which I will post to another thread if I can find one. Ubuntu works like a dream and with the basis of xubuntu it goes like a train. I've added Open Office 2.3 which seems to be the answer to the maiden's prayer. I've also added another hard drive to my config which makes disk I/O a bit quicker. I now need to find a way of putting some of the system stuff on the second drive so paging isn't such an issue. So at least I'm up and running and able to enjoy the benefits of Linux at last.
Tks guys for the help and encouragement
jg1
banzaikai
11-15-2007, 02:16 AM
Sorry for the delay, I was rebuilding a carbuetor... (yes, it works just fine, now)
Any recommendations, given my config....127MB RAM, PentiumIII, 8GB hard drive, CD and Floppy?
I thought you had more than this. The last "heavy" distro I was able to run on a system like this was RH9. To get things pared down a bit, you could go into the "System -> Administration -> Services" and disable the things you're not using (bluetooth, sendmail, etc.). The more you can do without helps with the ones you want.
I'd also look into getting another 128/256MB of RAM in that thing. The lspci indicates you've got the i810 chipset in there, which should support "high-density" DIMMs (my i440BX chipset only supports "low-density" DIMMs, which are few and far between nowadays).
As for the HDs, I'd just make one the /home partition, and throw everything else on the main, like so:
/dev/hda1 = /swap 512MB
/dev/hda2 = / {whatever's left? 7.5GB?}
/dev/hdb1 = /home {all of it}
Newer kernels use /dev/sdX# as the designators for all drives (e.g., /dev/hda1 = /dev/sda1).
The advantage to this is that you can completely wipe the main drive without having to backup/redo your settings on the other. It's how I update my Fedora distros - I can just wipe the root partition and install the latest version without worrying about what's in my /home. Since I have two machines, I use one for the "even" distros, and one for the "odd" distros. Currently, I'm running FC6 on this one, and F7 on the other (I'll be upgrading to F8 shortly).
Oh, the fealnx is the right module for the Surecom, as I used kHexEditor to look through the file, and it had the proper ID string for it. Another thing to check would be the default iptables or SELinux settings that Fedora uses. It may be the reason that nothing is getting in or out of eth0 (a moot point now, but if someone else is having the same troubles, this may help).
banzai "U-bun-dood-it" kai
bwkaz
11-15-2007, 09:21 PM
Oh, the fealnx is the right module for the Surecom, as I used kHexEditor to look through the file, and it had the proper ID string for it. For future reference, you don't need a hex editor for that. You can just modinfo fealnx, and it'll print all the module aliases (along with lots of other information on the module).
The format of a PCI alias is "pci:", then "v", then the vendor ID, then "d", then the device ID, then "sv", then the subsystem vendor ID, then "sd", then the subsystem device ID, then "bc", "sc", and "i", each followed by the appropriate PCI class/interface values. In place of any piece of information, you can also have a *, which matches any ID.
:)
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