Is SUSE10.1 really as bad as it seems? [Archive]

blackbelt_jones

07-08-2006, 01:30 AM

I've heard something about this, I think it was on Lug Radio, but the story I came away from was very different. It has to do with development, not with what desktop environments are actually included with the release. Novel is concentrating on Gnome Development because of limited resources, and financial ties with gnome... or something like that.

If releasing a SUSE without KDE at all, which would cost them practically nothing and has plenty of devotees in the Linux world, makes any kind of sense, someone will have to explain that to me. I know that Slackware dropped Gnome. I'm sure they had some purist ubergeek reason for that. Can anyone fill me in on THAT?

Personally, I've come to dislike the KDE desktop environment a great deal, and only use it when I have no choice (e.g., if I want to run a KDE-based live CD like Knoppix or Kanotix-) yet, I too might drop SUSE if they kept KDE out of a future release, because there are certain KDE-based applications I just can't live without, e.g, Konqueror, K3B, and -- when I'm using fluxbox (my new fave, at least with this old box I'm running now)-- kpager.

Can anybody settle this for us? what is the real story here?

My own hypothesis-- and that's all it is, and educated guess-- is that, after opening up the development of suse to the community, Novell may be having troubles managing the process, and that's led to a below-par release. Or is it such a bad release? It's true what someone said about ymmv... so Is there anyone who really likes SUSE10.1?

cybertron

07-08-2006, 01:41 AM

That sounds a lot like my experience, except that I went back to SUSE10.0. The install took an awful long time, too. I installed from a DVD, and it took about 7 hours. It was an old machine, I checked some extra packages, but still... SEVEN HOURS? :confused:
That sounds like it failed to turn on DMA or something for the drive(s).

happybunny

07-08-2006, 02:12 AM

regaurding suse and gnome:

My understanding is Novell now employee's the makers of gnome, so it was a no brainer to switch.

could be wrong, but thats what I understood when I was at a Suse Desktop 10 "class" last week.

blackbelt_jones

07-08-2006, 02:29 AM

Yes, but I think that has to do with development and defaults etc. It's free software it costs them nothing to include it and it'll cost them users if they drop it entirely.

I guess I'll have to research this myself if I want a really definitive answer.

enshum

07-08-2006, 02:49 AM

One of the things that keeps me with Suse is the fact that I can mix apps, utilities, multimedia etc from KDE and Gnome. I just go to control center-software mangement and find what I want and install it and it works. Of course this is with 10.0 which is stable as a huge rock on my machine. :)

ed

dkeav

07-08-2006, 03:38 AM

novell does not employ the gnome team, they employ the ximian guys, miguel and friedman, although they are responsible for a lot of the enhancements to the gnome platform

nikodell

07-08-2006, 12:58 PM

blackbelt_jones

07-08-2006, 02:10 PM

I have allways used SuSE now OpenSuSE
this 10.1 version I have tryed on at least 5 systems and have found it slow and unstable.

I am verry sad as i may have to move to a new distro but UBUNTU is looking to be a great distro -its x86_64 problems

Well, I am not a fan of Ubuntu and all that "sudo" business. I'm just going to stick with SUSE 10.0 and see if SUSE does better next time, and there's no reason to assume that they won't.

Consider Fedora Core. I used to be known (and am still occasionally teased) for a willingness to try every distro I could get my hands on, and I still like to have a look at some of the major distro releases. I've tried every Fedora release, and my experience suggests that Fedora has had some bad releases and some good releases. In fact, I have a little joke about that (except that so far it's been true for me, so it's not really a joke, YMMV). I tell people that so far, Fedora Core releases are like Star Trek Movies, the best are the ones with the even number. :) That's just how it breaks down for me. FC1 was kind of lackluster and dissapointing after running RedHat 9. FC3 was buggy, and I wasn't even able to get FC5 running on this machine, but FC2 and FC4 worked great for me-- fast, stable, and powerful. So, in my humble take-it-with-a-grain-of-salt opinion, Fedora is currently batting 400, and if the pattern holds true, FC6 will bring them back up to a solid 500.

Now, I haven't been running SUSE as long as I've been messing around with Fedora, but I'd say that based on my experience, SUSE is batting at least a 666, maybe a 750. To carry the baseball metaphor just a little farther, I'd be a fool to trade my star player, just because of a temporary slump.
:D

Incidentally, last night I went into the #suse chat room at irc.freenode.org, and asked the same question. I got a smililar response (stick with 10.0) from some, but others told me that 10.1 can be salvaged by disabling certain resource-hungry applications or functions or something. I don't recall the details. By then, having spent an entire day installing SUSE 10.1, and two days installing and gradually setting up SUSE 10.0 again, I considered my own course fixed, and I wasn't much interested.

nikodell

07-09-2006, 02:10 AM

sudo passwd

than you have a password for root login

and yes

10.0 is still good but i am still fighting 10.1 its random settings changing , i removed beagle and zmd and things are faster but still have the stability problems

Piko

07-09-2006, 06:30 AM

SuSE 10.1 blew at first, but after a major patch of the package manager, it was solved. It's as good as all the others now except one big that I can't solve for the life of me. Joysticks aren't automatically given device nodes of /dev/input/js#, you have to fun Yast2->System->Detect Hardware to get the joysticks to activate. It's the only thing that drives me nuts right now. Other then that it's fine.

nikodell

07-09-2006, 02:49 PM

I have problems on the 2 systems i am still using it on after the updates and it is still dog slow at times and forgert trying to let beagle and zmd to be going if you want anything done in this lifetime.

Worst of all is the fact that it will frag your hardware settings at times you got me I had to reinstall to get mt TV card and sound up at one point faster than the continued search for the reason it was happening.
Yes i write this to you on SuSE 10.1 running fine now?

irlandes

07-10-2006, 12:26 AM

I do not ever again wish to have a computer without kalarm installed, or something that is so close I can't tell the difference without reading the ABOUT. Period; end of debate.

MkIII_Supra

07-10-2006, 02:01 AM

and gave it a fair run on a Toshiba Laptop and my AMD Duron 1.2 GHz desktop.

Speed: Faster than 10.0 on both systems.
XGL: Well the image looked better, sharper, clearer but that was about the only thing I noticed.

Other than that, I had problems with the following:
1. Unable to perform update on laptop: YaST2 would crash and burn.
2. Sometimes the automount would work and other times not.
3. My Canon LiDE 35 scanner that works fine with XSane on 10.0 wouldn't work no matter what I tried on either 10.1 system.
4. Open Office wouldn't remember any settings I entered plus the Auto correct changes / settings I made wouldn't function at all.
5. Every once in a while Mozilla Firefox and Evolution would exit with no crash message or warning.
6. Some random apps in KDE would fail to start or run for long before they quit with no error messages.
7. The system just stopped recognizing my USB drives when I would plug them in! Nothing I have done seems to have gotten this back. So I will have to install a second drive and mount it so I can copy the 35GB of files I need to save before I slick the drive for OpenSuSE 10.0.

Over all I was really disappointed with 10.1. So I am back on 10.0 on the laptop and it's working great (except wireless... I have never been able to get ndis-wrappers to work with my Linksys Wireless-G 2.4GHz 802.11g PCMIA wireless nic.) The desktop will be converted later this week, after I get a blank drive installed and mounted it will be gone back to OpenSuSE 10.0. At least it is reliable.

In a nut shell, 10.1 is a real disappointment, reminicnent of the recent flubs of the 9.1-9.3 series that came out of Novel (I had some serious issues with those as well!). I gave it a good couple months try out and it just sucks when compared to 10.0. So bottom line, 10.0 is the best from Novel SuSE yet. Lets hope they get it together soon. Or else Linux will be toast in the US after that crap ware Vista hits the streets.

blackbelt_jones

07-10-2006, 02:10 AM

Someone in the #suse chat on irc.freenode.org told me that updating solves a lot of the problems with SUSE 10.1; i guess that he(?) was talking about the yast online update. I didn't get that far with 10.1 before giving up, and that may have been where I went wrong. I'm quite happy with 10.0, and I think I'm going to stay put for a while.

andycrofts

07-10-2006, 05:25 AM

Hi
One Newbie friend of mine installed 10.1 (AMD 64 version). As he's Finnish, I'll paraphrase the gist.
Worked like a charm. But, only after the updates. Sound, video, etc, got DC++ running under Wine. And he's been using Linux less than 3 months.
All the more surprising, since I told him not to install 10.1 over 10.0, because of all I'd heard.
I guess it's maybe the hardware....
This helped... http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/254/42/
-Cheers
-Andy

frimann

07-10-2006, 06:16 PM

Im using suse 10.1 on my desktop athlon 64 3200
and laptop HP/Compaq nx 9005 athlon 2600
After updates and using smart as package manager i am happy with suse 10.1, i admit it had some bugs but most are squased.
Suse 10.2 WILL be mutch better out of the box with all the new stuff more mature. :rolleyes:

Bowtie

07-11-2006, 12:23 AM

I haven't had the chance to install 10.1 yet. However, I have poked around with 10.0. It was nice but it seemed a little "off" to me. I've used Suse since 7.1 and have bought almost every version since then. I downloaded and installed the OSS 10.0 and used it for a month or so. It just seemed to be a little unstable so now I'm back with my trusty 9.3 (laugh if you will. :D ). I haven't really heard anything good about 10.1 so I think I'll hold off until 10.2 comes about.

If Suse (Novell) does drop KDE, I guess Slackware will go from 2nd to 1st in my lineup. Hopefully Novell gets their stuff straight. It would be a shame to see them totally screw up an awesome distro with a great reputation.

happybunny

07-11-2006, 12:48 AM

Novell has officially gone with gnome as default, but KDE is still an option at install

blackbelt_jones

07-11-2006, 11:34 AM

So the moral of the story appears to be
Don't judge 10.1 unitl you've done the update.

Novell has officially gone with gnome as default, but KDE is still an option at install

Now that makes perfect sense to me. Losing it as an option would be plain crazy.

Stump

07-12-2006, 03:04 PM

Hello Everyone,

I have only been using Suse 10.1 for 3 weeks now, in a corporate env., but I have had only good things to say. I've not had any of the issues that you all have stated above.

thanks,

blackbelt_jones

07-13-2006, 12:30 PM

I tried it again, and still it was giving me a hard time. This time, I was finding it difficult to upgrade, and I was unable to install crucial packages like mplayer and fluxbox from the online sources.

And so, once again, I've reinstalled SUSE10.0-- however, this time I've had the foresight to partition off 12GB for 10.1, and any other experiments I may decide to undertake in the future.

Could it be my hardware? I'm running an old machine now, a Pentium 2, and since 10.0 runs on this machine without a hitch, is it a reasonable hypothesis that something in the upgrade to 10.1 leaves older machines behind?

ShogunMaster

07-13-2006, 03:21 PM

blackbelt_jones

07-14-2006, 02:08 PM

I am using Suse 10.1 on my work laptop (Compaq nx7010) and at home on my desktop machine. The only thing is that I did both as a fresh install and not an upgrade from 10.0. I didn't have much data on my laptop so I backed up what I had and deleted the linux partitions and install 10.1 freshly. I had the same luxury on my desktop machine at home. I recently built a new box and installed 10.1 from scratch.

I haven't had any slowness issues on either box (even with beagle still running).

My only issues have been at home with multimedia. When I go to web sites with videos embedded in flash (youtube.com type videos) my browser crashes everytime. Flash animation works fine though. Despite uninstalling and reinstalling flash and other video player plugins, I haven't been able to get it to work.

I also can't get any programs to play nicely with my iPod. Amarok sort or works but crashes often while coping files.

Other than these things I am very happy with Suse. (I work around the issues because I have Ubuntu on my home laptop and multimedia works fiine on that.) I've also got Xgl on my Suse desktop and everything looks very pretty. I really like the eye candy and my kids really thing the 3d-cube window switcher.

I guess that I am in the minority.

I don't know if you're in the minority. Based on my inquires here, and in the #suse chatroom, I'd call it roughly a fifty-fifty split. But what causes that split? There are definitely issues with Suse 10.1. The obvious question is: "Issues for whom?" Is it my hardware or my knowledge that makes the difference? All I know for sure is that SUSE10.0 runs like a dream for me.

As I've said, I've set aside 12 GBs of hard drive space to try to get a handle on SUSE10.1 at my convenience, without sacrificing my system in the experiment. If I can get it on working on my old hardware, I will.

Piko

07-14-2006, 05:30 PM

Alright, the only good way to run SuSE 10.1 is with Smart.

After the ZMD went beserk on me, and KILLED MY SERVER!! I reinstalled SuSE 10.1, and used Smart for all the updating, and package management.

Not only does smart not take up resources when it's not being used, it works. Also with SuSE Guru's version, his repository, and Pack Man's repository are in by default. So after one update with Smart your video playback works 100% with xine, and mplayer. You get the latest version of KDE, and also adding new repositories is a snap.

I use cron to activate "smart --update && smart upgrade --yes" every week now, and it works just the way I want. I uninstalled ZMD, and libzypp-zmd-backend.

Also I run 2.6.16.20-20.1 kernel from software.suse.org

frimann

07-14-2006, 09:39 PM

I installed Suse 10.1 on my old p3 450 out of curiosity to see if i would have problems on this older computer, the install was slow at least 3x normal and after the install it was really slow, then i went into yast to see if DMA was on and it was not on, i tried to set it on but it errored out, i then installed smart and did a update and tried again to set DMA on but no luck, then rebooted and DMA was on automaticly so the most resent update seams to have fixed this DMA problem.

Just to be sure that DMA was on i played a dvd and it played fine and dvds do not play smoothly on this old computer without DMA on.

So if with older computer do the updates and turn DMA on.

I really hope novell is not starving Suse, i have not heard of so many problems before.

philwebs

07-15-2006, 04:24 PM

quip

07-15-2006, 05:12 PM

Wow. I decided to look at a new distro, and had never tried Suse, so I gave 10.1 a spin in spite of this thread (and some others) detailing problems. My totally unecessary 2 cents to an ever-growing thread... ;)

In short, I did a fresh 10.1 install, and everything has been flawless. I downloaded the dvd with non-oss components, and flash, java, mp3, acroread, etc. are all good. The only two things I had to do were acquire the madwifi drivers on my own (they were pulled right before 10.1, I gather), but the info page on Suse's website mentioned this, and pointed me to the downloads. The second thing was adding a couple of repos that allowed some extra stuff such as dvdcss. The Jem Report mentioned earlier in this thread was a big help.

Anyway, it is faster than Ubuntu, but not quite as fast as Slack (the other two distros on the laptop). However, it is the only one of the three that

1. Correctly set up X, including 1280x800 resolution, with 3D acceleration,
2. Recognized and set up my sound (plain old intel ac 97)--Ubuntu still hasn't got it figured out, and after the Slack install I had to unmute the channels,
3. Had my wifi going in two minutes (after I installed 2 rpms, from the link mentioned above)--Slack made installation easy, but configuration, while not hard, took a little reading. Ubuntu still makes me ifconfig down/up the card to get it working after each boot, and took two hours to install.

I still love the simplicity of slack, and I really like Ubuntu (especially the gazillion packages) but my experience so far has been great; it might find its way onto my desktop.

blackbelt_jones

07-19-2006, 07:06 PM

My first boxed Suse set was 8.2. I was told to get this rather than 8.1 as it would be better.

My next boxed set was 9.2, again the word was 9.1 wasnt as it should be.

Now I am hearing 10.1 needs more polish and finesse. So it looks like 10.2 will be my next boxed set.

Methinks I see a pattern,

Phil

Thanks for the perspective. I started wtih 9.3, so I don't have the big picture that you have.

Maybe these patterens really do exist. I've said this before here, but for anyone who hasn't read the whole thread, my experience is that Fedora Core Releases are like Star Trek movies: your best bet is the releases with the even number.

I've had enough. I've installed SUSE 10.1 three times now, and whether the problems I've been having are my fault or SUSE's fault, it doesn't matter. Why point fingers when I'm still discovering things I love about SUSE10.0?

rj3

07-23-2006, 07:08 AM

SuSE 10.0 has so far been the best distro I've used , so I thought why not install 19.1 .Installed fine and then ran like a dog ! Installed the nvidia drivers upgraded using YAST then smart etc reinstalled the nvidia a driver still ran like a dog. 3D supposedly enabled but glxgears runs at 5 frames per second. Tried compiling something still so slow.
Finally found 2 processes running ,

ifhwup 00:0b etc, -o hotplug ,

obviously trying to load the wireless card ( D-link TI chipset , no 64 bit drivers still!) , killed these , now 10.1 runs like a dream just like 10.0 .
( just have to look hard enough sometime)

Still no support for my d-link wireless card on a 64 bit system though !

Rick

nikodell

08-17-2006, 11:39 AM

I just want a system that works. I have always used SUSE and am sad that it is such a pile of cr*P for me now as I know it well but have never been able to get a reliable system with 10.1 . I have no confidence in 10.1 now and feel that its update systems may compromise security as I have yet to get them working for more than 1 or 2 times in a row before failure. What goes must come down someone send SuSE some viagra.

blackbelt_jones

08-18-2006, 11:30 AM

Update:
After a span of about three months (The motherboard had been to the factory twice.), I finally got my main computer back. So I thought, what the hell, I'll try SUSE10.1 again.... and there was a lot about it that I liked. Above all, it was definitely faster, though, You get to a point where the difference in speed is perceptable, but of questionable practical value. It's just a pleasure to use something that responsive.

But the bugs were definitely there, and I know that you can usually fix them by updating, but I found that I couldn't easily update. I was having trouble with YAST... and when you're running SUSE, if you're having trouble with yast, you're defintiely having troubles! Dkeav suggested that I try smart. So I tried to install smart using yast, but it didn't work.

Sooooooo, if I was willing to try to compile smart, and learn how to use it to update, and if that had somled the problem, I might have wound up running SUSE10.1, but that seemed kind of "iffy". I'm willing to spend a lot of time screwing with stuff that isn't so crucial to my system, but what I really wanted was a working computer, ASAP, and so I'm back to my beloved SUSE10.0.

I don't think 10.1 is a bad OS at all, they just released it too soon. I think they should release it again with all the bugs fixed, add new wallpaper, and call it SUSE 10.2.

quip

08-18-2006, 10:03 PM

The only bugs I can recall from running it over the last month are in the same place you mentioned: software updating. Yast takes forever, and zen was worse. I actually went to a mirror and downloaded the packages needed for smart by hand, and then installed them, I believe by the command line (although I can't remember for sure).

Now, using smart, everything is a breeze. It seems to be the consensus wherever I look.

10.2 Alpha 3 was released a week ago. Hopefully 10.2 will have the kinks worked out from the get-go.

dkeav

08-18-2006, 11:36 PM

right after install leave the dvd/cd in and yast2 --install smart smart-gui

add the proper channels and update it and ditch yast/zen you should not have any problems from there nearest i can tell

however, that doesnt mean i endorse rpm distros by any means, but if yast is broken, then dont use it simple as that

blackbelt_jones

08-19-2006, 12:10 AM

right after install leave the dvd/cd in and yast2 --install smart smart-gui

See, that didn't work for me. I found smart and smart-gui in my yast software list, but nothing would download. I got a message saying something like "Source does not have desired package". Same thing when I tried to update online with yast: "No patches available."

I hate to admit it, but I really do miss the extra speed I experienced with SUSE10.1, so I'll install it to a spare partition and try to work out the problem in my spare time once I've got this system established.

dkeav

08-19-2006, 12:40 AM

the packages are on the install media...

blackbelt_jones

08-19-2006, 12:46 AM

What can I say? Tell that to YAST.

dkeav

08-19-2006, 12:59 AM

i would love to, with a baseball bat!

bryhawks

08-19-2006, 11:32 AM

I just glanced over this post to get the jist of it.... I have been using Suse for quite a while (7.2 was my first distro, linux distro ever)... I have always been a huge fan of it. on this version YAST is broken out of the box. Do the updates for it and it should fix it. Yes, it can be a painfully long experiance but be patient, it will work.

I also highly recommend trying SMART(this may have already been mentioned but as I said, I only glanced over the thread)... It's an "apt-get type utility" and works wonders! Here is a cool link to find the quick and short way of getting it up and running. http://spinink.net/2006/05/20/installing-smart-package-manager/ give it a shot and I think you all will be quite happy!

WOW kicks arse on wine!

The gear I am using is this (in generic terms):
AMD 3700 64bit
Nvidia 6800 GT (256mb RAM)
Maxtor SATA 60 gig HD
Maxtor SATA 120 gig HD
1 gig memory
24" wide screen Dell Monitor
Suse 10.1 x86_64

blackbelt_jones

08-19-2006, 11:53 AM

Well, duh...

Man, SUSE 10.0 has really spolied me. If the packages (smart, smart-gui) are on the installation media, well, that means they're rpms. What did the Founding Fathers use to install rpms back before yast? Didn't they type rpm -i or something? Hello? :rolleyes:

dkeav

08-19-2006, 12:06 PM

i bet man rpm knows the answer to that question ;)

cybertron

08-19-2006, 09:42 PM

i bet man rpm knows the answer to that question ;)
:D

Also, if it says that the package is not available from the installation source, then you may need to re-set them up in Yast. I think there's an Installation Sources item in the Software Management that will let you do it.

Parcival

08-20-2006, 04:25 AM

What did the Founding Fathers use to install rpms back before yast? Didn't they type rpm -i or something?

If the Founding Fathers had had YaST, now every household would have a Linux computer rather than a vacume cleaner.

:D

blackbelt_jones

08-20-2006, 10:53 PM

i bet man rpm knows the answer to that question ;)

Listen, I was being ironic. I know the answer to that question. To install rpms from the the command line, you type:

rpm -i filename

as root. If there are dependancies, rpm lists them, and without benefit of a package manager, you have to hunt down the dependancies, and probably the dependancies of the dependancies, and install them all together. I did it for over a year, before someone was nice enough to explain to me how apt-get worked. Let me tell you, THAT was a big day in my life! :)

DavidMD

08-21-2006, 07:46 PM

blackbelt_jones

08-22-2006, 03:08 PM

Hello, everyone.

Does this question about the poor quality of SuSE Linux 10.1 refer to the open-source version (OpenSuSE), to the retail Novell boxed version, or to both?

I have both of the above versions, as well as the SuSE Linux Special Edition 10.1 DVD: "The SUSE Linux Special Edition 10.1 DVD is available for either 32 or 64 Bit systems. The difference between the Special Edition and the Retail and OSS versions is that in addition to all of the other features that come with the Retail and OSS versions, the Special Edition comes with Intel Wireless LAN support, DVD and DIVX Playback, MP3 Creation Capability, 3D Drivers for NVIDIA and ATI Cards, ISDN and DSL support for Fritz! cards. The only two things that are missing are Real Player and Flash which you can install on your own." [Source: PCTech101.com (http://www.pctech101.com/suse101se.php)]

Although the special edition is very tempting, I am considering installing the retail version, because I will get installation support from Novell/SuSE. The special edition does, however, offer many attractive options.

I started using SuSE Linux in 2002; it is the only distribution that I have used continuously. I have 8.3 Professional currently installed, so I am very much overdue for an upgrade (clean install)! ;)

I am very discouraged, however, by the postings in this thread, and I intend to read all of them. I have never had a problem with SuSE and hardware detection or automounting, nor has SuSE been anything but blazingly fast on my computer (which will now be exclusively a Linux box, after I install two new 120-GB Seagate hard drives). The problems with SuSE 10.1, however, cannot be ignored.

Thank you, in advance, for your time and help! :)

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- Important Note: Based upon what I have read, SuSE Linux 10.2 will be the last retail release of SuSE Linux for the desktop. Only OpenSuSE will remain. Apparently, Novell is focusing on SuSE as a server or the retail version of SuSE Linux simply did not generate enough revenue.

David, this is a good point to raise. As for me, I've been talking about OpenSUSE, which I downloaded.

Based on everything I've read here, I wouldn't be too discouraged-- but if I were in your position, I'd probably go with the retail version, because the installation support from Novell ought to carry you through these difficulties.

To sum it up, the situation as I understand it is this: SUSE 10.1 has big ugly bugs, but the bugs can be fixed with an update. However, a lot of the bugs are in the YAST package manager, which (at least in my case) makes the usual method of updating impossible. So you either need to know how to use the SMART package manager, be willing to learn, or have the support to carry you through it.

For someone who hadn't already purchased the retail version, and who didn't want to mess with this, I might suggest that you download and install SUSE10.0, which seems to be a little bit slower, but runs out of the box as well as any OS I've ever installed, even on crappy old machines.

http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/10.0/iso/

blackbelt_jones

08-22-2006, 04:44 PM

Here's something I've never noticed before from the open SUSE site (http://en.opensuse.org/Download) . Maybe this will turn out to be the answer to all of these problems? I'll have to check it out later.

BEFORE YOU INSTALL READ THIS:

The package manager in SUSE 10.1 is regrettably broken on most systems. To correct this you should do the following after you have installed SUSE:

* Open Yast chose "online update configuration" , click next and wait until finished.
* Press the updater icon on you taskbar/panel
* If it updates, congratulations, all is well.
* If it throws up an error. Close it.
* Follow the instructions in this SDB article or this mail.

afterburntdw

08-22-2006, 05:52 PM

I feel compelled to respond to this thread....I'm new to Linux - Only started trying out this wonderful OS in April. A couple of comments:

I've tried other distros - I started with FC5 (nice, but I don't like Gnome and I had problems with RPM's installing), moved on to Slackware (not my flavor), and then tried Suse 10.0. I liked it, but I then gave up trying new distros for a little while. I picked it up again when 10.1 came out. I decided to try 10.1 OSS.

I always like to have the latest updates, so I chose to do it through the install. I did not have any problems and I was using 10.1 rock solid until last Friday, when my Athlon XP 2600+ decided to DIE! I'm now using it on my second PC, which is a P4 3.2 Ghz. No problems with speed on either system.

I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but the first time you boot the PC into an X session, beagle will run a complete index. If you have information on a second drive or multiple partitions, it can take a while. Be assured, that after it is done, it runs quietly in the background. In fact, the only performance hit I saw was when I installed XGL (another story!!).

I just had to post this now, while it was fresh in my mind.

blackbelt_jones

08-22-2006, 09:47 PM

Well, the instructions from the opensuse download page seem to have done the trick... that is to say, I have just successfully completed an online update of SUSE10.1. Once I found the instructions, getting the online update working took about an hour... not bad, really.

So there it is, apparently... the answer to the SUSE10.1 riddle, hidden in plain sight. I think SUSE should have put the answer in a more visible (or relevant ) place on the site than right in the middle of the download page. ( I mean, it's not really about downloading, is it?) it would have saved a lot of aggrevation all around.

It remains to be seen that updating the system will solve every SUSE 10.1 problem... but what the hell... :) it can't be bad, right?

afterburntdw

08-22-2006, 11:49 PM

I'm very curious for your observations of using 10.1 on older hardware. Will you post your experience in a few days or so?

By the way, keep up the good threads. I've found alot of very useful information in the forums. I look forward to getting to know more people.

blackbelt_jones

08-23-2006, 06:26 AM

After all that, I installed fluxbox, and it's broken. As far as I'm concerned, that may be all she wrote for SUSE10.1. I don't know if I ever mentioned this before, but I really like fluxbox... and I'm not willing to go without it.

DavidMD

08-26-2006, 06:37 PM

Hello, 'blackbelt_jones'.David, this is a good point to raise. As for me, I've been talking about OpenSUSE, which I downloaded.

Based on everything I've read here, I wouldn't be too discouraged-- but if I were in your position, I'd probably go with the retail version, because the installation support from Novell ought to carry you through these difficulties.

To sum it up, the situation as I understand it is this: SUSE 10.1 has big ugly bugs, but the bugs can be fixed with an update. However, a lot of the bugs are in the YAST package manager, which (at least in my case) makes the usual method of updating impossible. So you either need to know how to use the SMART package manager, be willing to learn, or have the support to carry you through it.

For someone who hadn't already purchased the retail version, and who didn't want to mess with this, I might suggest that you download and install SUSE10.0, which seems to be a little bit slower, but runs out of the box as well as any OS I've ever installed, even on crappy old machines.

http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/10.0/iso/Thank you very much for your detailed and informative reply.

When I first started using Linux (and SuSE Linux Professional) back in 2001, the quickest way to get the latest distribution was to purchase the retail package. I started with Version 8.0, but found that SuSE (pre-Novell) 8.3 was the most stable and fastest iteration of Version 8.

I thank you for your advice. I will install the retail version first. I also have, as I said, the OSS version, and the special edition.

In addition, I have SuSE 10.0. When I got it from PCTech101.com, I was very busy at a new job and by the time I felt I had time to install it, the release of 10.1 was about a month away, so I waited for it.

I have not yet read every message in this thread, but I am concerned to see SuSE Linux take a step back in quality with the release of a new version! :confused: This type of QA problem has never occurred in my four years of using SuSE.

Thank you, again, 'blackbelt_jones'.

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- Once I get SuSE 10.? installed and stablized, I plan to add Debian to the same machine. I think it is time that I tried a non-RPM-based distribution, and I have a great deal of respect for the Debian project.

I also have Slackware 10.2, which is supposed to be the most "UNIX-like" distribution, and I've been using UNIX since 1991 (CLI only) -- but I do have a special respect for Debian, although I understand that I will have to do quite a bit of post-installation work. (I hope I can solve most issues myself, rather than test the patience of the helpful community at JustLinux.) ;)

blackbelt_jones

08-26-2006, 09:21 PM

Hello, 'blackbelt_jones'.Thank you very much for your detailed and informative reply.

When I first started using Linux (and SuSE Linux Professional) back in 2001, the quickest way to get the latest distribution was to purchase the retail package. I started with Version 8.0, but found that SuSE (pre-Novell) 8.3 was the most stable and fastest iteration of Version 8.

I thank you for your advice. I will install the retail version first. I also have, as I said, the OSS version, and the special edition.

In addition, I have SuSE 10.0. When I got it from PCTech101.com, I was very busy at a new job and by the time I felt I had time to install it, the release of 10.1 was about a month away, so I waited for it.

I have not yet read every message in this thread, but I am concerned to see SuSE Linux take a step back in quality with the release of a new version! :confused: This type of QA problem has never occurred in my four years of using SuSE.

Thank you, again, 'blackbelt_jones'.

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- Once I get SuSE 10.? installed and stablized, I plan to add Debian to the same machine. I think it is time that I tried a non-RPM-based distribution, and I have a great deal of respect for the Debian project.

I also have Slackware 10.2, which is supposed to be the most "UNIX-like" distribution, and I've been using UNIX since 1991 (CLI only) -- but I do have a special respect for Debian, although I understand that I will have to do quite a bit of post-installation work. (I hope I can solve most issues myself, rather than test the patience of the helpful community at JustLinux.) ;)

David, to sum up and update, I found the instructions on the site, managed to finally update suse 10.1... and I still had bugs! And so, I'm officially all done with 10.1. Having read SUSE's explanation of the problems for the how and why of the problem, I'm convinced that SUSE 10.1 is a transitional fluke, and there's not yet any reason to not look forward to years of more excellent SUSE releases. However, I'm sticking with 10.0, and you might want to do the same.

frimann

08-26-2006, 10:35 PM

I have been using suse 10.1 on 3 computers at home and there were problems during the first 2 weeks from the release date. broken yast , i just started to use "smart" package manager and am still using it, my oldest computer is p3 450 320mb and the suse install was slow but after the first update DMA was set on for all drives and it was fine. I am now running MYTHTV on my newest computer.
"blackbelt_jones"
Pease try to be patient and google a bit and all the solutions are out there?! :rolleyes:
one of the forums more dedicated to suse is: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/forumdisplay.php?f=60
and
http://www.suseforums.net/

blackbelt_jones

08-27-2006, 01:41 AM

"blackbelt_jones"
Pease try to be patient and google a bit and all the solutions are out there?! :rolleyes:

I've been trying to figure out just how annoyed I should be. Seriously, can somebody tell me, was that as presumptuous and patronizing as it seemed?

I googled enough to figure out how to update 10.1, which was supposed to fix it-- but it didn't... so who needs it? SUSE10.0 does everything I want it to, and SUSE 10.2 isn't that far off. I know that the SMART package manager has its enthusiasts, but my first encounter was unpleasant. The documentation that I found was sketchy and the interface was more than I could figure out. I'm sure I'll take another stab at SMART one of these days, but right now, I can't imagine why I would want to use SUSE if I can't use YAST. If someone else does, that's a valid choice. I don't... and that is also a valid choice.

DavidMD

08-27-2006, 11:14 AM

Hello, 'blackbelt_jones'.Well, the instructions from the opensuse download page seem to have done the trick... that is to say, I have just successfully completed an online update of SUSE 10.1. Once I found the instructions, getting the online update working took about an hour... not bad, really....

It remains to be seen that updating the system will solve every SUSE 10.1 problem... but what the hell... :) it can't be bad, right?Thank you for contributing this information to the JustLinux community; you are the type of helpful member that makes JustLinux such a great resource. :)

I will probably follow your advice in another post in this thread and install the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1. As you say, at least I will have access to Novell/SuSE's installation support. (For SuSE Professional, installation support was for ninety days, starting with the user's first question; I have no idea how long installation support lasts now that Novell has dropped SuSE Professional.)

In case I should try to install OpenSuSE or from my SuSE 10.1 Special Edition DVD, are the instructions on the OpenSuSE download page that you found easy to locate, or are they in an obscure location? ;)

If I cannot get the bugs fixed in the retail version with Novell's help, I may try the Special Edition -- and I assume it is based upon the OSS version of SuSE 10.1. I will check the OpenSuSE Web site to see if I can find the instructions to which you refer.

I may end up installing from my SuSE 10.0 DVD, but I want to give 10.1 a try, despite the very discouraging posts that I have read in this discussion thread. I am baffled by why SuSE 10.1 is so "buggy," because -- as I have written before -- SuSE's iterations of a new version always improve upon the initial #.0 release. In the past, I have installed the initial release of a new version and then sometimes waited until the #.2 or #.3 release to upgrade.

(In my experience, the #.3 releases have always been the best. I note that SuSE Linux Professional 9.3 was the last iteration of SuSE Linux Pro 9, and that people were very pleased with the quality -- and I know a couple of people who are just staying with 9.3 Professional.)

Regardless of which of the three options I have for installing SuSE Linux 10.1, it is obvious to me that I am going to have to invest quite a bit of time working to get a stable system (if I am successful at all) and that, for the very first time, I will not simply be installing SuSE Linux and the packages I want from the DVD and then immediately start using SuSE Linux. (What an unpleasant change...!) :(

I really hesitate to drop back to 10.0, although I am prepared to do so if necessary, because I have used SuSE exclusively since I started using Linux four years ago. :rolleyes:

If, indeed, it is possible to install and stabilize SuSE 10.1, I see a great opportunity for a "HOW-TO" article for the JustLinux Web site! :)

Finally, I was surprised, 'blackbelt_jones', when I read that you could not get fluxbox to work with 10.1! :eek: I can understand your strong attachment to your favorite environment, which -- after all -- directly effects your productivity and even your aesthetic enjoyment of Linux.

(I need to learn more about fluxbox and decide if I want to try it; I'd love to learn some of the reasons why you love it so passionately. At this point, I am tempted to try XFCE and stop using KDE, because my main Linux tower has a 2.0-GHz Pentium-4 processor and 1-GB of RAM, which is slow compared to the hardware that many JustLinux members seem to be using. I have a used Dell Dimension 8300 with a 3.0-GHz P4 processor, but the case has virtually no ventilation, so I am planning to use it as a "Windows box," until I can finally stop using Windows altogether.) :)

Thank you very much, in advance, 'blackbelt_jones', for your time, help, and patience! You obviously are a Linux expert and I am grateful for all of the helpful information that you share with us here at JustLinux.

Cordially,

David

frimann

08-27-2006, 12:07 PM

nikodell

08-27-2006, 09:00 PM

Yast works fine for updating and installing software and the new zmd updater also works fine. (after the first update- that can be a problem but easy to solve)

This is true for some i hear but not for me, I did install smart on the one computer of the three I tested 10.1 on and that works fine now but yast seems to be hit or miss mostly miss. SMART is working though on my amd64 system, and SuSE, is my prefrence there.

frimann

08-31-2006, 09:51 PM

http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Status_Meeting_2006-08-22

" aka_druid Simple question: is it possible to think of an exceptional re-spin ISO with the fixed yast, zmd, libzypp, etc packages after the next major update via YOU (supposedly in time to include back the delta rpm support)?
Ill explain briefly why. After the next major package management update I have the feeling that the package management will be in great shape. It works good already. The problem is people installing 10.1 are not being able to patch their systems so the package management problem is gone. When the newbies see themselves in situations like sources not syncing, corrupted source, failure to solve deps (if someone cancels or kills yast while the helpers were running and they think it crashed) it leads to problems that they cant handle. And this gets very frustrated (I can see in irc and with friends trying 10.1, even those with good linux experience). This is terrible marketing to yast and 10.1 release. If the users dont have to deal with that potentially problematic initial update (it is problematic), then they are more prone to appreciate the other great features of the 10.1 release.
PS: I can see this reducing the *****ing about 10.1 release in 87%, so please really think about if it is really "that hard" to make those fixed ISOs. Because last time this issue was discussed it was like "no, its too hard, cant do it".

This shows a bit what the developers of opensue are thinking!

I have been a suse user since suse 8 , so i may have been a bit defensive in my former posts.

nikodell

08-31-2006, 10:59 PM

I started like on 5.0

Funny thing I have been useing smart and all seemed fine till today , now i cannot use GNOME ?? not going to look into it as I have too much school work to f*cK with this now just**&*&^%*&*& **(****( you know.

Posting from XP rt now :( :eek:

Headfuzz

09-05-2006, 08:14 AM

Installed it on my AMD64 box, after reading up on the well documented package management issues it's running almost flawlessly.

XGL and Compiz are installed and great fun; the only remaining niggle seems to be zum still borking shortly after login... Not that it bothers me a huge amount as I either use YAST or smart instead.

Faster boot times and startup scripts would be nice though. I seem to recall SUSE 10.0 booted pretty damn quick...

LarsWestergren

09-06-2006, 04:08 AM

I am very disappointed in the quality of OpenSuse 10.1.

First the removed MadWifi package caused me a lot of annoyance on my home computer. Then when I purchased a long enough TP cable to plug into my wireless hub non-wirelessly, I find that Yast is buggy enough to be unusable. I can't add new update repositories, when I try, it just hangs and I have to kill it from the command line. Adding repositories from command line has same result. It seems doing the online update while installing would have helped, but it is too late for that now.

The automatic updater in the system tray downloads packages, but is unable to install them.

It occasionally screws up the system clock when rebooting.

On my work computer, I also have problems with Yast. I thought it worked, but now when I check closer, it never actually downloads patches but nevertheless claims that the update worked. Trying the stuff in the links that people have provided in this topic have not helped either, the zypp library never updates and the problems persist.

On my work computer I have the same system clock problem, and I also have sound volume problem. 9 times out of 10 when I boot, the volume is very low so I have to max it on the mixer and media programs. But one boot out of 10, suddenly volume works as it used to (and a mixer volume of 5-10% is good), but now the settings are so high I almost blow my eardrums.

The problems on my home computer are just an annoyance, but if I lose a day of work because I have to backup all my project files and reinstall the OS, because I can't install necessary security patches, that is pretty serious!

I gave up on Mandrake/Mandriva a year ago because of lack of quality and picked Suse because they seemed the most stable. And now this. I'm considering checking out BSD or OpenSolaris to see if they are better.

Rinias

09-06-2006, 09:16 AM

I know that Slackware dropped Gnome. I'm sure they had some purist ubergeek reason for that. Can anyone fill me in on THAT?

I believe that Gnome was dropped because it involved simply too much upkeep AND the Slackware Dropline Gnome install was FAR more used than the Gnome provided by Slackware. Basically (and the Slackware team is not as big or funded as others) they were simply saving themselves time and headaches by throwing it out and letting Dropline take care of it. If you never tried Dropline, it's highly recommended...

As for the Suse 10.1 problem, sorry to hear that it's giving certain people so much trouble. I for one, try to stay away from systems that do too much for me-- it's annoying even though it can save a lot of time ;)

It's a good distro, Suse, but I have yet to discover a "perfect" distro... Do your updates and google your problems- as far as I know, there are no "unusable" distros :)

blackbelt_jones

09-06-2006, 05:53 PM

Yast works fine for updating and installing software and the new zmd updater also works fine. (after the first update- that can be a problem but easy to solve)

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=474643
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:ZEN-Update_System_problem_in_10.1

To do a update with yast you have to click on "online update configuration" and "online setup" first inside yast to set up a mirror for updating, it searches for a mirror for you (took about 10 min) and sets it up. This is not a bug it is meant to be like this.
There is no need to use smart as package manager, i like it as it updates also packages from 3party sites such as packman and guru.

"Blackbelt_jones"
You keep taking about problems with suse 10.1 that i don't encounter.
You make a a lot of statements like "and I still had bugs"
What kind of bugs, what does not work?

There are a lot of people using Suse 10.1 with no problems so i stand by my comment that you seem a bit inpatient. (it was meant as a friendly comment)

I don't remember what the bugs were, and I just don't care. The thing is, I love SUSE10.0. It's polished, it has a lot of great features, and I haven't run into many serious bugs. I'm still learning how to use it, and I'm still getting a huge kick out of it. If me and SUSE10.1 don't get along, does it really matter whether the fault is mine or the software's? There's another SUSE coming along soon enough.

Most people who got as far as figuring out how to update haven't had any problems, and I guess that makes me the exception, but if what worked for everyone else didn't work for me, that really puts me at a disadvantage. I mean, where do I go from there?

As I have mentioned, there are references to the problems with the 10.1 package management on the opensuse website, so I know I'm not imagining this, but there's no reason not to regard these as a fluke. These days, I'm as big a fan of SUSE as anyone, and I would hate for a newbie to try 10.1, have it not work for him, and go through life thinking he had tried SUSE.

nikodell

09-06-2006, 06:53 PM

I would hate for a newbie to try 10.1, have it not work for him, and go through life thinking he had tried SUSE.

I agree with you here but would like to add that it would be sad for a newbie to linux to try SuSE 10.1 as their fist distro and be turned away from linux thinking that it is too difficult to bother with.

Update on my sys it is working again with smart doing its buisness well, Gnome back up but still not sure what happened there but a few days and another update and its back, all seems fine even messed with xgl&compiz and they are going ,,,hope it stays togather for me from here out. :p :rolleyes: :cool:

bigmac99

09-06-2006, 09:42 PM

are you guys talking about SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 or are you talking about the openSUSE.org version?

the reason I ask is that I installed the SLED 10 at work this afternoon, I didn't have much time to play with it but I didn't see any obvious bugs.?

Thanks
Charles

nikodell

09-06-2006, 09:58 PM

opensuse 10.1 not 10,10 is a good product but 10.1 seems to have been rushed.

gampy

09-07-2006, 02:35 AM

I triple boot my main machine between WinXP, Win2K and now SuSE 10.1. I've upgraded to SuSE 10.1 after running Novell Linux Desktop 9.0 for about a year and a half. I upgraded to SuSE 10.1 about 3 months ago.

I too was having the atrociously slow OS problems too, but it seemed to be the OSes inability to always apply the proper DMA flags during the boot process. I had to keep setting the appropriate flags using Yast 2 and rebooting. It doesn't seem to be doing that on me anymore. I also disabled Beagle; that seemed to help???. When it is running with the appropriate DMA flags, the SOB runs like a banshee rooster!

This OS did seem to be having trouble with USB peripherals at boot-time too. I disabled the hotswap process until it reaches run-level 5, and it works tickety-boo now.

I've never been a Gnome guy, I've always used KDE and I like the version included in this distro (3.51). It definitely is noticeably faster than earlier versions of KDE.

To wrap up my 2 cents worth of SuSE 10.1 experiences, it is working very well and stable for me now. I always had strange little learning curves for various Mandrake releases too.

blackbelt_jones

09-07-2006, 08:46 AM

opensuse 10.1 not 10,10 is a good product but 10.1 seems to have been rushed.

To that I would only add that some people have found opensuse 10.1 to be fixable, so if you have the ability and inclination to do some tinkering, 10.1 does seem to be a little faster, so it may be a viable system. If you want something that works easily out of the box (which is what SUSE is supposed to be about, right?), there are plenty of mirrors still available for downloading SUSE 10.0.

Here's (hopefully) everytihng you need to know about this. First of all, the essential passage from the opensuse website on the problem with 10.1, and how to fix it, complete with all the links:

BEFORE YOU INSTALL READ THIS:
The package manager in SUSE 10.1 is regrettably broken on most systems. To correct this you should do the following after you have installed SUSE:

Open Yast chose "online update configuration" , click next and wait until finished.
Press the updater icon on you taskbar/panel
If it updates, congratulations, all is well.
If it throws up an error. Close it.

Follow the instructions in this SDB article (http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:ZEN-Update_System_problem_in_10.1) or this mail (http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-security-announce/2006-Jun/0004.html).

You probably also want to read about Using 10.1 (http://en.opensuse.org/Using_10.1) and the most annoying bugs (http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs#SUSE_Linux_10.1_.28Final.2 9) .

And for the less *****ious, here (http://www.novell.com/products/suselinux/downloads/ftp/mirrors_isos.html) is a list of mirrors where, last I knew, you could still download isos of SUSE 10.0.

PS I have no idea why I was prevented from using the word "*****ious".

bigmac99

09-07-2006, 01:54 PM

has anyone tried the fix listed above to correct their suse 10.1 problems?

Thanks
Charles

LarsWestergren

09-08-2006, 09:10 AM

has anyone tried the fix listed above to correct their suse 10.1 problems?

Yes. As I mentioned in my post, I have tried to follow the recommended steps on two computers with no luck. Seems to work for some people, but not for me.

I have a third computer with Suse10.1 and that one works fine, probably because I could patch it while installing.

DavidMD

09-08-2006, 02:15 PM

Hello, everyone.

This thread is fascinating and discouraging at the same time. I do note that some people are having more success than others with SuSE Linux 10.1; perhaps I will reserve time to read the entire thread at one sitting to determine if I see any patterns. :)

When I first decided to start using Linux in early 2002, I did research for months on which distribution to use. I guess each of us has memories (fond or otherwise) ;), of the first Linux distribution we used -- rather we kept with it or "shopped" around, trying several distributions.

Based upon my research, I selected SuSE Linux Professional. In addition, I rebuilt my only Intel-based computer (at that time) to upgrade to the fastest Pentium 4 processor available (and it lacks hyperthreading) and to ensure that each hardware component was compatible with SuSE Linux Pro (8.0?) and Windows XP Professional. I was amazed at how much more quickly SuSE Linux Pro installed than Windows XP Pro, and by the fact that it recognized even my RAID controller chip. (Windows XP Pro required that I insert a driver diskette early in the installation process, by pressing a function key.) SuSE worked better with my hardware than Windows did.

Clearly, there are quality-control issues with SuSE 10.1, and we also have the confusion caused by people using the variations of 10.1, including the special edition (from PCTech101.com (http://www.pctech101.com/suse101se.php) ), openSuSE 10.1, and the retail version -- which most people do not seem to be using (but which I do plan to install...if I can just make the time).

Note: SuSE Linux 10.1 is the last iteration of SuSE Linux that will be available as a retail version with the limited installation support from Novell. Those of us who continue to stay with SuSE will all be using OpenSuSE exclusively after 10.1.

One aspect of this situation with SuSE Linux 10.1 that I find so ironic is the fact that the overwhelming number of reviews that I read on the Web after the release of 10.1 (and the open-source version was available long before the retail version) were positive.

For a typical example, please see the review, SUSE Linux 10.1 Final Report (http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/6879) , on the Tuxmachines.org Web site. Yet, this very same SuSE Linux 10.1 has many of us "pulling our hair out" (and I seem to have less hair at which to tug with each day that passes). :D

I would be especially interested in hearing from people who have purchased and installed the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 -- but I realize that we are in the minority. (I plan to try to install and try to use the retail version, but I have some safety nets: I have openSuSE 10.1, the special edition of 10.1, and SuSE Linux 10.0.) Perhaps I should set up a poll to help determine this demographic of SuSE 10.1 users (retail versus OSS)? I would be grateful for your opinions!

I am trying to see if there is any pattern, by comparing problems with the OSS version and the retail version.

In addition, if you have the time, I would like to hear from people who had trouble with SuSE Linux 10.1 (retail and OSS) who finally gave up. Did you revert to SuSE Linux 10.0 or did you go so far as to switch to another distribution of Linux?

I ask for this input, because if I hit a proverbial "brick wall" with SuSE 10.1, which I do not anticipate, I am thinking of giving Debian 3.1 a serious try, although I realize that I will probably feel like a Linux neophyte making such a change. I have admired the Debian project for some time, and I believe that the next version of Debian, "etch," will be another fine release. (At one point, I read that "etch" would be out late this year, but the information on Debian.org is vague.)

Anyway, if I get enough feedback to indicate that a poll (SuSE OSS versus SuSE retail) might be of use in our desire to help each other and ourselves to isolate problems and to share solutions, I will be glad to set up a poll.

I apologize for the rambling nature of this posting. I am in the same situation as others who have used SuSE exclusively for years. I have never had any problems with SuSE Linux, and certainly not on the scale of 10.1, and I feel a sense of loyalty to SuSE, although Novell officially and finally acquired SuSE in January 2004.

On a final note, I believe that this frank discussion and sharing of possible solutions shows one of the many advantages and strengths of the open-source software community and, in particular, the GNU/Linux community: We have a shared recognition of a problem and, because of the nature of OSS and Linux, we immediately began sharing difficulties and suggestions for solutions!

The problems with SuSE Linux 10.1 are no "walk in the park," as we say in English, but one only has to think briefly about how dire our status would be if we were using a closed-source product. (Imagine the potential anguish that Windows Vista may cause for early adopters upon its release!) :D

Thank you!

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- I am now fortunate enough to be free of the problems associated with dual-booting Windows and Linux. I am still trying to figure out how to arrange and cool all of my hardware, but at least Linux is on separate machines than my one "Windows XP Pro box." :p

blackbelt_jones

09-09-2006, 06:40 AM

Yes. As I mentioned in my post, I have tried to follow the recommended steps on two computers with no luck. Seems to work for some people, but not for me.

Didn't work for me, either.

In addition, if you have the time, I would like to hear from people who had trouble with SuSE Linux 10.1 (retail and OSS) who finally gave up. Did you revert to SuSE Linux 10.0 or did you go so far as to switch to another distribution of Linux?

That would be me. I'm back to using SUSE 10.0, and quite happy with it. It's a great distro, and the YAST online update effortlessly brings it up to speed in the ways that matter to me the most (such as firefox being updated to 1.5.)

Debian 3.1 is (Sarge) is a great distro, my first love, and I run it on another partition (the big 320 hard drive I use for backup and storage.) As a user of intermediate ability, I found it easy to install and run almost everything on Sarge once I learned a handful of apt-get commands, and it puts me into immediate contact with a whole truckload full of applications.Ninety percent of the time, all dependancies are instantly resolved by Debian's massive software reposisitories.

The two big issues that I had with Sarge was that it required me to compile and install the codecs and plug-in for mplayer, and installing the drivers for my nvidia graphics card was beyond my ability and patience.

The thing to understand about the stable version of Debian is that it is finished, done with, and has been for quite some time. With Debian, that's what "stable" means. Until the next stable version of Debian is released, the only updates will be a handful of security updates. This means that Sarge is great distro for mission-critical server stuff for example, but it also means that by the time a stable version of Debian is established and released, it's already a little bit out of date, and it only gets worse.

This relates to our current discussion because, believe me, SUSE10.0 is a lot more up to date in terms of the usual applications than Debian 3.1. I would never want to discourage anyone from an encounter with this most distinguished and influential distro, but it doesn't really make sense for the SUSE user who is frustrated because he can't easily bring his system up-to-the-minute.

I would have to say that the answer to the quession posed at the beginning of this thread is "yes". SUSE 10.1 is an unfortunate lapse. This isn't Gentoo we're talking about,after all. SUSE is supposed to be an out-of-the box distro for the general user, and 10.1 falls significantly short of that, unless you're very very lucky.

However, if the question were "Is SUSE still a good distro?". I'd also have to answer in the affirmative. If you read the material that Novell has published about SUSE's problems, it's pretty clear that they're very much aware of the problem, and there's no reason not to expect that the next release will put SUSE back on track. A lot of what I've seen in SUSE 10.1 seems promising and intriguing, and I look forward to trying it again with the next release. Whatever they call it, SUSE 10.1 is a beta version of great software to come.

For today, the great software that I would probably reccomend for the general user, including the Linux beginner, is called SUSE 10.0, and it can still be downloaded from the mirrors at this page:

http://www.novell.com/products/suselinux/downloads/ftp/mirrors_isos.html

nikodell

09-09-2006, 11:01 AM

I had to get the smart packages from the guru site and finnaly worked for me as long as I do not use yast or the new manager I think it was zen updater??
ech time I attemped either one of them I had ended up with a broken system or disabled update.

Also Zen and Beagle made my system slow I just disabled Beagle and stay away from zen and yast.

Old Bones

09-09-2006, 11:56 AM

Just registered so that I could take a minute to say thanks to the people on this thread.

I am new to Linux and Suse10.1.

I knew I was going to have to sort out some media files - I figured that was fine. I'd have to cut my teeth on something.

I had started to become a little frazzled tho' trying to work with Yast.

I thought it was hanging, or frozen - Yast didn't seem to want to do anything but spin it's wheels, wouldn't abort or close. I couldn't work out if the OS was corrupted - or if I'd missed something to obvious for words.

Coming across this thread convinced me to try again and be a lttle/lot more patient.

Now my system is fully updated and my codecs installed and music/video playing fine.

Thanks all - very much appreciate those who contributed to this thread and helped me past this hurdle.

:cool:

MkIII_Supra

09-09-2006, 03:11 PM

Well I decided to try OpenSuSE 10.1 one more time. First I will start of with my laptop specs so any who are curious or have a similar laptop will have a reference.

Manufacture: Toshiba
Model: Satellite A15-S129
CPU: Intel Celeron 2.4GHz (uncertain what the Cache is on this CPU at the moment)
RAM: 1GB DDR (Stock is 256MB, 1GB is maximum capacity).
RAM Speed: 266MHz
Harddrive: 80GB 7200RPM IDE (Stock is 40GB 5400RPM IDE)
Display: 15” XGA TFT LCD (Note: When setting this up in OpenSuSE, use the following for a clear sharp picture as well as the ability to use with XGL: Select the Elitegroup Computer Systems CO., LTD Vertos 1501 from the Sax Monitor Vendor and model selection. Also make sure you enable 3D!)
Operating System: Comes with WindowsXP Home Edition... I never booted it and installed Linux straight away!
Chipset: Intel 852GM
Bus Speed: 400MHz
Optical Drive: CD-RW/DVD-ROM
Optical Drive Read Speed: 24x (CD) • 8x (DVD)
Optical Drive Write Speed: 24x (CD)
Optical Drive ReWrite Speed: 10x (CD-RW)
Graphic Processor: Intel 855GM AGP 4X
Display Color Support: 24-bit (16.7 million colors)
Display Max. Resolution: 1024 x 768
Installed Video Memory: 32 MB
Graphic Bus Interface: AGP
External Video Resolution: 1920 x 1440
Expandability: 1 x Type I/II PC Card Slot
Expansion Ports: 2 x USB 2.0, Parallel Port, Serial Port, RJ-11 (modem), RJ-45 (NIC)
Security Features: Screen Blank (Hotkey), Keyboard Lock (Hotkey), Slot For Cable Lock, Setup Password, Power-On Password
Input Method: Keyboard • Touchpad
Networking: Networking Type Integrated 10/100 Network Card
Data Link Protocol Ethernet • Fast Ethernet Modem Modem Type Modem Analog Modulation Protocol ITU V.90
Battery Battery Run Time 2.6 Hour(s). With Linux I saw about 1 hour 40 minutes... but now I get 5 minutes, the battery is toasted after 3 years of hard use! :rolleyes: )
Battery Technology: Lithium ion Dimensions Width 11.5 in.
Depth: 13 in.
Height: 1.5 in.
Weight 6.1 lb.
Miscellaneous: MPN psa10u-0zh6mv
Product ID: 21287098

There, that should be enough to give you an idea, eh!? So I slicked my laptop drive completely. Using the full version of Kill Disk (http://www.programurl.com/active-kill-disk-hard-drive-eraser.htm), I ran a 10 pass format to ensure a clean working slate. Then I layed out a partition scheme like so:

/ = 11GB
SWAP = 1GB
/home = 16GB (Encrypted)
/PRIVY = 49GB (Encrypted)

I used the ReiserFS for all partitions except SWAP (duh!) and I did a minimal KDE install. From there I slowly added the applications I wanted or needed to use. Following several different sources (the Jem Report was by far one of the more useful!) I was able to get everything up and running 100%. The exception is the modem. I haven't used dial up in so long that I never bother to configure my modem anymore. And yes the modem does work with Linux, at least with SuSE 9.1 it did, that was the last time I even bothered with it. Once all repositories were set-up I went about running a complete update to my system. Once it was 100% updated, I ran the laptop for 2 weeks to get a good burn in. Instead of shutting down I would suspend the system, this seems to keep the uptime counter moving? Not sure why but not really a problem either! Anyhow after 2 weeks of hard use, the system has been stable and very fast (faster than 10.0 was on the same system!). I have some timings somewhere, if I find them I will post them.

So today I decided to move to the next level, XGL. In this particular post I found a link to Novell explaining how to get XGL working in KDE, and with only one little hitch in my giddy-up I got it working. To be honest it looks cool and all BUT the systems video is working pretty hard. I have noticed a slight increase in operational temp (nothing significant to worry about, it's running about 10F. degrees hotter than normal but still well below the oh no point!) and some of the graphics are a bit sluggish. I will continue to use XGL for a week and see if the system comes to a happy balance. Something I have noticed with Linux over the years is that the initial install / run is usually pretty crappy but as time passes the system seems to “figure” out where it performs the best then just does it.

Anyhow, my initial opinion of 10.1 was pretty negative, but after doing some more reading and then coming up with a clean install plan I am very pleased with the system now. Although I will wait for 10.2 to come out and stabilize before I install it on my main system at home. In a nut shell, I would say that with a bit of patience and reading 10.1 can be a killer system, but my opinion of out of the box install, it sucks and has a lot of issues. BUT those issues can be easily and readily overcome, like I said with some reading and patience.

LarsWestergren

09-11-2006, 05:20 AM

I decided to give Suse10.1 another chance, so I did a clean reinstall on my home computer over the weekend. It does work fine now, but the way the updates are handled really is terrible. For 5-10 minutes it just hung there "looking for update server". No indication of what it is doing, or that indeed it is still working. I think I assumed it had crashed the first time and cancelled the updates, thinking that I could fix it later. This time I went and made a cup of coffee instead, and it finally completed.

Then when it found a server and starts looking for updates, it hangs for another 10 minutes. Also Yast downloads what looks like the same patches and restarts many times. Not very user friendly.

But as I said, now it works fine, I even got Madwifi working so my wireless card is ok.

BUT those issues can be easily and readily overcome, like I said with some reading and patience.

Well... unless you press cancel during the update phase of the installation thinking you can fix it later. Then your installation might be permantetly screwed, especially if you are a beginner - intermediate user.

Bowtie

09-12-2006, 08:00 AM

A little update. I went back to Suse 9.3 for a while and then I decided to download oss Suse 10.1 DVD. I installed it on my laptop at first. LOVED IT!!! Installed it on two more computers.......flawless!!!! The only caveat is that YOU (Yast Online Update) doesn't seem to work........at all. Such a shame since it was such a slick tool in the previous generations. I guess it's time to read up on smart and use it. So in short, from my perspective, I give 10.1 the thumbs up. Now.....................where did I put those Slack 10.2 isos???? :D

enshum

09-13-2006, 12:46 AM

I have now come full circle with Suse 10.1 after three muffed installs I went back to 10.0. I encountered some problems with 10.0 after installing kde 3.5.3 after several crashes I removed 10.0 and installed Freespire 3.0 on my 40 gig drive and it is working flawlessly. I installed Suse 10.1 on my 20gig drive and worked my way around the broken zen updater, it works just fine now. Got the nvidia drivers installed with a slick little installer I found at linux forum. !0.1 is doing its job and restoring my confidence in Suse.

ed

enshum

09-13-2006, 12:51 AM

I think this should be shared!

Hi there - I know a couple of people have trouble installing the nVidia drivers. Something that seems to me to be tragically overlooked on opensuse.org and novell cool solutions is the fact that there is still a tool for directly installing the drivers since openSUSE. All this requires is a working internet connection, no need to download the packages.

Before you start, install the following two packages in YaST > Software Management :-

* gcc
* kernel-source

This install is done without your X server running. To do this hold CTRL+ALT+F2 and login as root. For those of you who haven't done this before remember you won't see your password as you type it. When you are logged in run the following commands, confirming all steps in the nVidia installer using TAB and Enter :-
Code:

init 3 tiny-nvidia-installer --update
cp /etc/x11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bak
nvidia-xconfiig init 5

You should now see the nVidia splash screen, and continue back to your desktop with your newly accelerated configuration. To see your new GL framerates run
Code:

glx-gears

in konsole/gnome-terminal and watch the framerates appear every 5 seconds.
Discussion of this thread has been moved to "SUSE nVidia Howto Discussion Thread"
__________________
One shall stand, one shall fall.
Registered Linux user #378740

If I can install the nividia driver with this tool anybody can!

ed

Megatron X

09-20-2006, 11:32 PM

imho, suse 10.1 sucks...it's slow, it crashed on me various times especially when logging out, the zen updater gave me a lot of problems...once in a while the darn thing will erase the updater url links for unknown reasons...today i re-installed it and spent about 4 hrs. trying to get zen to update...i just gaved up and i'm waiting for debian to fix grub for etch which does not work...

nikodell

09-21-2006, 02:23 PM

its weird but lately I have been having more trouble with linux as both OpenSuSE and Ubuntu have been giving troubles just plane Weird as I have always been able to make a system stable before.And its not my hardware as i am speaking of multiple machines.

But the eyecandy is getting better, and mabie it is just happening becouse of the fast progress of all the different linux projects? Not sure but I will continue to use linux.

blackbelt_jones

09-21-2006, 04:06 PM

To the last two posters, or anyone else. if you didn't read the whole thread, I can't really hold that against you, considering that we're now on page six... so let me sum it up for you.

*****ious, sophitcated and/or patient users (I ain't one of 'em!) have been able to get SUSE10.1 running quite nicely. The issues with the package manager, and a possible fix are addressed at the opensuse download page, toward the middle, where you might miss them if you're not terribly careful.

If you're interested in running openSUSE, and you can't get 10.1 running or don't want to make.the effort, 10.0 runs great out of the box (which is how SUSE is supposed to run) can still be downloaded, and still gets excellent support form the major YAST onlkine repositories.

Here is link (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showpost.php?p=854202&postcount=73) to an earilier post which contains all the relevant information, not only about how to fix 10.1, but where to download 10.0.

Anyone can have a bad release, but in the case of SUSE10.1, I think it wasn't "bad" so much as "premature". I just added some hard drive space, and while installing SUSE10.0 on a 200 GB hard drive, I reserved 26 GB free space on which I have installed SUSE 10.1 just this morning.. What intrigues me enough to take yet another (fourth) stab at it is the fact that everybody who's gotten it running seems to just love it

If I ever do get it running, I may come back here and record my impressions from the other side. I can't help but wonder: Just how is SUSE 10.1 better than SUSE 10.0? Can anyone offr some perspective on this? Why not just install 10.0 and wait?

DavidMD

09-21-2006, 08:41 PM

Hello, 'Megatron X'.imho, suse 10.1 sucks...it's slow, it crashed on me various times especially when logging out, the zen updater gave me a lot of problems...once in a while the darn thing will erase the updater url links for unknown reasons...today i re-installed it and spent about 4 hrs. trying to get zen to update...i just gaved up and i'm waiting for debian to fix grub for etch which does not work...I am sorry that you are having such trouble and that you cannot access your installation of the testing version of Debian "etch."

I assume that you installed openSuSE, 'Megatron X'? I have been tied up with a job search and making some changes on my home computer network, but I decided to purchase the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 as soon as it was released.

As soon as I make some minor hardware upgrades to my Linux workstation (which is showing its age with a 2.0-GHz Pentium 4, without hyperthreading) ;), I will install the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 and report my results in this thread.

Although the retail version provides installation support from Novell, that support is, indeed, for installation only. I did find, before Novell acquired SuSE and I was purchasing SuSE Linux Professional (update version) with each release, that the SuSE support team in Nuremberg provided help beyond mere installation -- and I have no reason to believe that situation has changed, even if SuSE 10.1 is the last retail version.

(There are very few boxed, retail desktop Linux distributions these days, a fact that I realize we can interpret in any number of ways -- but such speculation and discussion are off-topic for this thread.) ;)

Anyway, 'Megatron X', I am very curious if there is any significant difference between openSuSE 10.1 and Novell's retail SuSE Linux 10.1 -- in terms of bugs and other problems.

Thanks! :)

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- I have used SuSE Linux for four years, and the problems with 10.1 are very distressing to me. I am interested in trying other distributions (especially, Debian), but I have always been productive and satisfied with SuSE, which was my first distro, too, by the way. :confused:

ccie13831

09-22-2006, 07:28 PM

With no previous experience of Linux, I loaded Suse10.1 with the promise of a stable OS, right after my laptop HDD crashed at a customer site in the middle of a network implementation. XP was starting to fuss about (hang, etc) and I was thinking why not Linux from a known industry vendor with support and VMWARE? And so I began Friday evening and finished somewhere close to Sunday late night. At first the system had all sorts of quirks, as it would seem, from a newbie standpoint. After searching many posts, figuring out VMWARE compiling issues after kernel upgrades - I have a wonderful working system.

SPECS:
P4 - Dell Laptop C840 with Intel TrueMobile
2.2Ghz
2 Gig Ram
120 Gig HDD

What I wanted: VMWARE on Linux to run my WindowsXP machine (768 Ram) with serial console capability in XP as well as wireless and wired Internet access. I got everything I wanted, but it took some serious investment of time. At first pass and after getting everything working, I though it was not worth the time. Now, it is the only machine outside of my Cisco boxes that I can depend on. :cool:

PROBLEMS:

The only problem I have left is the system clock that never keeps its time when I log in, no matter how much I change it!

Megatron X

09-22-2006, 08:50 PM

Hello, 'Megatron X'.I am sorry that you are having such trouble and that you cannot access your installation of the testing version of Debian "etch."

I assume that you installed openSuSE, 'Megatron X'? I have been tied up with a job search and making some changes on my home computer network, but I decided to purchase the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 as soon as it was released.

As soon as I make some minor hardware upgrades to my Linux workstation (which is showing its age with a 2.0-GHz Pentium 4, without hyperthreading) ;), I will install the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 and report my results in this thread.

Although the retail version provides installation support from Novell, that support is, indeed, for installation only. I did find, before Novell acquired SuSE and I was purchasing SuSE Linux Professional (update version) with each release, that the SuSE support team in Nuremberg provided help beyond mere installation -- and I have no reason to believe that situation has changed, even if SuSE 10.1 is the last retail version.

(There are very few boxed, retail desktop Linux distributions these days, a fact that I realize we can interpret in any number of ways -- but such speculation and discussion are off-topic for this thread.) ;)

Anyway, 'Megatron X', I am very curious if there is any significant difference between openSuSE 10.1 and Novell's retail SuSE Linux 10.1 -- in terms of bugs and other problems.

Thanks! :)

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- I have used SuSE Linux for four years, and the problems with 10.1 are very distressing to me. I am interested in trying other distributions (especially, Debian), but I have always been productive and satisfied with SuSE, which was my first distro, too, by the way. :confused:
the version i installed was suse 10.1 which i downloaded from opensuse.org...from what i've read before novell just packages the suse 10.1 from opensuse.org with the manuals and stuff...
if the problems of 10.1 distress you why not download it from opensuse.org instead of purchasing it? there is a net installation in opensuse.org... :D

DavidMD

09-23-2006, 11:22 AM

Hello, 'ccie13831'.With no previous experience of Linux, I loaded Suse10.1 with the promise of a stable OS, right after my laptop HDD crashed at a customer site in the middle of a network implementation. XP was starting to fuss about (hang, etc) and I was thinking why not Linux from a known industry vendor with support and VMWARE? And so I began Friday evening and finished somewhere close to Sunday late night. At first the system had all sorts of quirks, as it would seem, from a newbie standpoint. After searching many posts, figuring out VMWARE compiling issues after kernel upgrades - I have a wonderful working system.

SPECS:
P4 - Dell Laptop C840 with Intel TrueMobile
2.2Ghz
2 Gig Ram
120 Gig HDD

What I wanted: VMWARE on Linux to run my WindowsXP machine (768 Ram) with serial console capability in XP as well as wireless and wired Internet access. I got everything I wanted, but it took some serious investment of time. At first pass and after getting everything working, I though it was not worth the time. Now, it is the only machine outside of my Cisco boxes that I can depend on. :cool:

PROBLEMS:

The only problem I have left is the system clock that never keeps its time when I log in, no matter how much I change it!Welcome to JustLinux.com, 'ccie13831'! :)

When I became seriously interested in trying Linux in early 2002 (and at a time when I was unaware of "live" Linux discs or, perhaps, they were rare), I spent literally months doing research, trying to decided upon the first distribution that I should try.

I bought a retail version of Mandrake, but -- after further research on-line about the then-current version of Mandrake (now, Mandriva) -- I decided that I should do more extensive research on other distributions.

Because a seasoned Linux user generously took extensive time in e-mail exchanges to recommend SuSE Linux Professional to me, and to provide me with detailed information about SuSE and Linux in general, I decided to purchase the retail version of SuSE Linux Professional -- and I have been using it for four years now (although I have experimented with "live" discs of other distributions).

As of early this year, I have the luxury of not having to dual-boot Linux and Windows XP Professional anymore, and I even have an extra computer to use as a Linux-based database server for MySQL and Oracle 10g (for personal educational purposes).

I purchased the retail (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/158298302X.01._SS400_SCLZZZZZZZ_V51946253_.jpg) version of (Novell) SuSE Linux 10.1 from Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Novell-662644467122-BOX-SUSE-Linux-10-1/dp/158298302X/sr=1-1/qid=1159022588/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8929391-0927338?ie=UTF8&s=software) and plan (hope?) ;) to run it on my desktop Linux workstation computer after I install new hard drives and a better graphics card.

Although I realize that you probably installed the open-source version of SuSE Linux (openSuSE (http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org)), 'ccie13831', your message gives me some hope that I just might be able to do a "clean installation" of SuSE 10.1 successfully and to resolve any of the many possible issues that apparently might arise. (At least I will have installation support from Novell -- and SuSE 10.1 is the last retail version of SuSE Linux that Novell will offer.)

Regarding the problem that you are having with your system clock, 'ccie13831', have you tried setting up a 'cron' job to retrieve the correct time automatically and at regular intervals from a public NTP (http://ntp.isc.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome) time server? It might be interesting to see if your system clock responds "appropriately" if the system time is updated automatically and frequently. I hope that someone else can offer a more helpful suggestion. :confused: (Perhaps you might be interested in RFC 1305 (http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/database/rfc/rfc1305/rfc1305a.pdf), with which you are no likely already familiar.)

I have gathered considerable information about problems with, and fixes for, SuSE Linux 10.1, so I am keeping my fingers crossed that I will have the same positive experience that you had, although I will not be using VMware's excellent virtualization software.

Aside: I hope that, when I can "gut" and rebuild my Linux tower the next time, I can afford the hardware to run the Xen (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/index.html) virtual machine monitor (VMM). I cannot imagine Xen working on my curent Linux workstation's 2.0-GHz Pentium-4 processor (which lacks hyperthreading).

Thank you for your detailed report, 'ccie13831', and welcome, again, to JustLinux.com! :)

Cordially,

David

DavidMD

09-23-2006, 11:32 AM

Hello, 'Megatron X'.the version i installed was suse 10.1 which i downloaded from opensuse.org...from what i've read before novell just packages the suse 10.1 from opensuse.org with the manuals and stuff...
if the problems of 10.1 distress you why not download it from opensuse.org instead of purchasing it? there is a net installation in opensuse.org... :DThank you for your message.

I purchased the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 as soon as it was released, so I am going to give it a try. (The retail version, from what I have read, includes some packages that are not part of the open-source version.)

In addition, I do have openSuSE 10.1 on DVD, as well as a "special edition" of SuSE 10.1 on another DVD.

As you can see, I have some options. ;)

Cordially,

David

frimann

09-23-2006, 01:41 PM

Posted by DavidMD
"Regarding the problem that you are having with your system clock, 'ccie13831', have you tried setting up a 'cron' job to retrieve the correct time automatically and at regular intervals from a public NTP time server? It might be interesting to see if your system clock responds "appropriately" if the system time is updated automatically and frequently. I hope that someone else can offer a more helpful suggestion. (Perhaps you might be interested in RFC 1305, with which you are no likely already familiar.)"

Netvork time protocol, NTP can be started using Yast - Netvork services - NTP Client.

You can allso go into - System- System Services(Runlevel) to see what services are running and stop or start them.

DavidMD

09-23-2006, 08:07 PM

Greetings, 'frimann'!Posted by DavidMD
"Regarding the problem that you are having with your system clock, 'ccie13831', have you tried setting up a 'cron' job to retrieve the correct time automatically and at regular intervals from a public NTP time server? It might be interesting to see if your system clock responds "appropriately" if the system time is updated automatically and frequently. I hope that someone else can offer a more helpful suggestion. (Perhaps you might be interested in RFC 1305, with which you are no likely already familiar.)"

Netvork time protocol, NTP can be started using Yast - Netvork services - NTP Client.

You can allso go into - System- System Services(Runlevel) to see what services are running and stop or start them.Thank you for your much-needed help. :)

Because I cannot access my Linux workstation right now, which has SuSE Linux Professional 8.3 :eek: installed, I could not provide any details to 'ccie13831'. (I will be lucky if I can recover my home directory, because of problems that I could not correct even with rescue discs; I am replacing the hard drives in that computer, just to be safe.)

In addition, I obviously ;) need to upgrade SuSE Linux, and I am going to give 10.1 a try. I certainly won't be any worse off than I am with my corrupted 8.3 installation, although I will lose some programs that I retrieved via CVS and had to configure in special (undocumented) :rolleyes: ways before compiling.

When SuSE Professional 8.3 was running properly, I had a 'cron' job set to retrieve the time from an NTP server once each hour. I am a bit neurotic about having my clocks and computers as accurate as possible, although I realize that there is a latency problem when retrieving the time via the Internet (and -- to a lesser extent -- with my SkyScan (http://www.skyscaninfo.com/content/) "atomic" clock).

Tempus fugit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_%28full%29)*, however -- and what are a few gained or lost nanoseconds? :D

Thank you, again, 'frimann'!

Cordially,

David

* Sed fugit interea fugit irreparabile tempus. -- Vergil (Georgica (http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/virgil.georgica.text.html))

DavidMD

09-23-2006, 09:01 PM

Hello, 'blackbelt_jones'!I'm back to using SUSE 10.0, and quite happy with it. It's a great distro, and the YAST online update effortlessly brings it up to speed in the ways that matter to me the most (such as firefox being updated to 1.5.)I may very well end up doing the same thing, 'blackbelt_jones', but I am going to give 10.1 a "good try," first. I will know that it is time for me to install 10.0 from the dual-layer DVD that I got from PCTech101.com (http://www.pctech101.com/products.php?cat=245) when I start pulling out my hair by the fistfull. :)

Debian 3.1 is (Sarge) is a great distro, my first love, and I run it on another partition (the big 320 hard drive I use for backup and storage.) As a user of intermediate ability, I found it easy to install and run almost everything on Sarge once I learned a handful of apt-get commands, and it puts me into immediate contact with a whole truckload full of applications. Ninety percent of the time, all dependancies are instantly resolved by Debian's massive software reposisitories.

The two big issues that I had with Sarge was that it required me to compile and install the codecs and plug-in for mplayer, and installing the drivers for my nvidia graphics card was beyond my ability and patience.

The thing to understand about the stable version of Debian is that it is finished, done with, and has been for quite some time. With Debian, that's what "stable" means. Until the next stable version of Debian is released, the only updates will be a handful of security updates. This means that Sarge is great distro for mission-critical server stuff for example, but it also means that by the time a stable version of Debian is established and released, it's already a little bit out of date, and it only gets worse.

This relates to our current discussion because, believe me, SUSE10.0 is a lot more up to date in terms of the usual applications than Debian 3.1. I would never want to discourage anyone from an encounter with this most distinguished and influential distro, but it doesn't really make sense for the SUSE user who is frustrated because he can't easily bring his system up-to-the-minute.

I would have to say that the answer to the quession posed at the beginning of this thread is "yes". SUSE 10.1 is an unfortunate lapse. This isn't Gentoo we're talking about, after all. SUSE is supposed to be an out-of-the box distro for the general user, and 10.1 falls significantly short of that, unless you're very very lucky.I have been reading as much as I can about Debian (or, formally, "Debian GNU/Linux") ;), 'blackbelt_jones'. I have spent hours on the Debian Web site and I have two books on Debian -- one specifically on 3.1, and the other one providing a detailed overview of Debian (The Debian System: Concepts and Techniques (http://www.nostarch.com/frameset.php?startat=debian), by Martin F. Krafft).

I like the Debian philosophy and the organization of the community, as well as the fact that each stable release is truly stable, although "a bit out of date," as you state.

I need to learn as much as I can about installing Debian correctly and about Debian's package-management system.

I have been using Linux for four years, but I do not yet consider myself an "intermediate" user. For example, I know that I will be disoriented when I try to install and configure Debian, because it is vastly different from how I have done things with SuSE for the last four years.

I am not exactly thrilled at the prospect of compiling and installing the codecs and plug-ins for MPlayer, but I know that I can do so with proper documentation and patience.

I realize that you know much more about Linux than I do, 'blackbelt_jones', so I am concerned (for myself) that you were unable to get the drivers installed under Debian for your Nvidia graphics card.

I am replacing the 2x, 32-MB Matrox Millennium G450 (2-D) dual-head video card in my Linux workstation with a 128-MB, 4x, 3-D ATI video card. (The motherboard in that machine will accommodate 2x or 4x AGP cards only.)

I gather that most experienced Linux users prefer and recommend Nvidia graphics cards, although I have already downloaded the source-code archive for my ATI card's driver. Given the fact that SuSE Linux Pro automatically installed the driver for my Matrox card, I am a bit apprehensive. :confused:

However, if the question were "Is SUSE still a good distro?". I'd also have to answer in the affirmative. If you read the material that Novell has published about SUSE's problems, it's pretty clear that they're very much aware of the problem, and there's no reason not to expect that the next release will put SUSE back on track. A lot of what I've seen in SUSE 10.1 seems promising and intriguing, and I look forward to trying it again with the next release. Whatever they call it, SUSE 10.1 is a beta version of great software to come....I find it interesting, 'blackbelt_jones', that I read so many enthusiastic and positive reviews on-line of SuSE 10.1. Perhaps the reviewers did little more than install 10.1 and spend some time checking out its features -- or perhaps each reviewer was extremely lucky. ;)

I agree with you, 'blackbelt_jones', that "tossing out" SuSE altogether and replacing it with Debian 3.1 is not a good idea. I also find it an interesting coincidence that SuSE 10.2 and Debian 4.0 are tentatively scheduled for release at about the same time, in December -- although I understand that nothing is carved in granite. (One or both releases could be delayed.)

I cannot say that I am passionately interested in distributions other than SuSE and Debian right now, and I do like having the more current versions of applications that SuSE offers, although I am also very intrigued by, and interested in, Debian.

At this point, I need to make the time to set up my main Linux computer, try to install SuSE 10.1, and take things from there, one step at a time. I do think that I should get "squared away" with SuSE (10.1 or 10.0) before attempting to install Debian on a separate partition.

I also have to consider the facts that I have never multi-booted Linux distributions with GRUB and that I need to decide upon the best possible approach to, and tools for, Linux backups. (I am installing two, 120-GB Seagate hard drives in the Linux workstation, and I plan to use the second hard drive for backups, although I need to research backup strategies and methods -- topics for more research and another discussion, however).

Thank you very much for your message, 'blackbelt_jones'. I always find your posts thought-provoking and informative. :)

Cordially,

David

blackbelt_jones

09-26-2006, 09:50 AM

Hello, 'blackbelt_jones'!I may very well end up doing the same thing, 'blackbelt_jones', but I am going to give 10.1 a "good try," first. I will know that it is time for me to install 10.0 from the dual-layer DVD that I got from PCTech101.com (http://www.pctech101.com/products.php?cat=245) when I start pulling out my hair by the fistfull. :)

I have been reading as much as I can about Debian (or, formally, "Debian GNU/Linux") ;), 'blackbelt_jones'. I have spent hours on the Debian Web site and I have two books on Debian -- one specifically on 3.1, and the other one providing a detailed overview of Debian (The Debian System: Concepts and Techniques (http://www.nostarch.com/frameset.php?startat=debian), by Martin F. Krafft).

I like the Debian philosophy and the organization of the community, as well as the fact that each stable release is truly stable, although "a bit out of date," as you state.

I need to learn as much as I can about installing Debian correctly and about Debian's package-management system.

I have been using Linux for four years, but I do not yet consider myself an "intermediate" user. For example, I know that I will be disoriented when I try to install and configure Debian, because it is vastly different from how I have done things with SuSE for the last four years.

I am not exactly thrilled at the prospect of compiling and installing the codecs and plug-ins for MPlayer, but I know that I can do so with proper documentation and patience.

I realize that you know much more about Linux than I do, 'blackbelt_jones', so I am concerned (for myself) that you were unable to get the drivers installed under Debian for your Nvidia graphics card.

I am replacing the 2x, 32-MB Matrox Millennium G450 (2-D) dual-head video card in my Linux workstation with a 128-MB, 4x, 3-D ATI video card. (The motherboard in that machine will accommodate 2x or 4x AGP cards only.)

I gather that most experienced Linux users prefer and recommend Nvidia graphics cards, although I have already downloaded the source-code archive for my ATI card's driver. Given the fact that SuSE Linux Pro automatically installed the driver for my Matrox card, I am a bit apprehensive. :confused:

I find it interesting, 'blackbelt_jones', that I read so many enthusiastic and positive reviews on-line of SuSE 10.1. Perhaps the reviewers did little more than install 10.1 and spend some time checking out its features -- or perhaps each reviewer was extremely lucky. ;)

I agree with you, 'blackbelt_jones', that "tossing out" SuSE altogether and replacing it with Debian 3.1 is not a good idea. I also find it an interesting coincidence that SuSE 10.2 and Debian 4.0 are tentatively scheduled for release at about the same time, in December -- although I understand that nothing is carved in granite. (One or both releases could be delayed.)

I cannot say that I am passionately interested in distributions other than SuSE and Debian right now, and I do like having the more current versions of applications that SuSE offers, although I am also very intrigued by, and interested in, Debian.

At this point, I need to make the time to set up my main Linux computer, try to install SuSE 10.1, and take things from there, one step at a time. I do think that I should get "squared away" with SuSE (10.1 or 10.0) before attempting to install Debian on a separate partition.

I also have to consider the facts that I have never multi-booted Linux distributions with GRUB and that I need to decide upon the best possible approach to, and tools for, Linux backups. (I am installing two, 120-GB Seagate hard drives in the Linux workstation, and I plan to use the second hard drive for backups, although I need to research backup strategies and methods -- topics for more research and another discussion, however).

Thank you very much for your message, 'blackbelt_jones'. I always find your posts thought-provoking and informative. :)

Cordially,

David

Actually, I may be unlucky. Only a handful of people have reported attempting the fix suggested by the opensuse website and not having it work, and I'm one of that handful. I managed to update the distro, and I still had problems. (I can't remember what they were.) After that, I'm not sure exactly what the next step would be, but I'm having a great time with SUSE 10.0, so why not just wait for the next release?

Considering the supposed target audience for suse (not necessarily represented by justlinux.com regulars) I don't think it's hard to get around the fact that 10.1 was a bit of blunder, but I've also already acknowledged several times in this thread that many people have found suse 10.1 fixable and provided links to the information on how to fix it. Here it is again.

http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showpost.php?p=854202&postcount=73

DavidMD

09-26-2006, 04:11 PM

Hello, 'blackbelt_jones'.Actually, I may be unlucky. Only a handful of people have reported attempting the fix suggested by the opensuse website and not having it work, and I'm one of that handful. I managed to update the distro, and I still had problems. (I can't remember what they were.) After that, I'm not sure exactly what the next step would be, but I'm having a great time with SUSE 10.0, so why not just wait for the next release?

Considering the supposed target audience for suse (not necessarily represented by justlinux.com regulars) I don't think it's hard to get around the fact that 10.1 was a bit of blunder, but I've also already acknowledged several times in this thread that many people have found suse 10.1 fixable and provided links to the information on how to fix it. Here it is again.

http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showpost.php?p=854202&postcount=73Thank you for your message. The only way that I will find out if I am unlucky or not is to perform the minor upgrades to my Linux workstation and then try to install the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 (to take advantage of whatever help I might get via the installation support).

I am not feeling especially lucky, however, so I may end up installing 10.0 if trying to install 10.1 proves to be a huge mess. I have used SuSE Linux for four solid years, but obviously something is wrong with 10.1 (apparently, both the open source and the retail versions).

I still find it curious, 'blackbelt_jones', that there are a considerable number of positive reviews of 10.1 that give no indication of any problems. Were these reviewers extremely fortunate or just not thorough? :D

I will just have to give 10.1 a try, but I need to do some work in the crowded room where all of my computers are, including doing some minor hardware upgrades to two Intel-based boxes, and some work on the network.

Thanks, 'blackbelt_jones'! :)

Cordially,

David

shad0w

09-26-2006, 07:28 PM

seriously... SuSE 10.0 and 10.1 required a bit of work in my case. But neither required more work than the other. I have some ugly, low grade mobo and everything worked beautifuly where redhat and debian failed.

I can only praise novell for their efforts. I used to be a redhat fan, but since 9.x of SuSE I have been a SuSE fan.

I stopped liking redhat in the 7.x phase, along with the 9.x phase (which we currentley deploy as our defacto standard and a HUGE UNIX organization).

I love SuSE, and hope its Enterprise Desktop CRUSHES Windows and OSX

DavidMD

09-27-2006, 07:27 PM

Hello, 'shad0w'.seriously... SuSE 10.0 and 10.1 required a bit of work in my case. But neither required more work than the other. I have some ugly, low grade mobo and everything worked beautifuly where redhat and debian failed.

I can only praise novell for their efforts. I used to be a redhat fan, but since 9.x of SuSE I have been a SuSE fan.

I stopped liking redhat in the 7.x phase, along with the 9.x phase (which we currentley deploy as our defacto standard and a HUGE UNIX organization).

I love SuSE, and hope its Enterprise Desktop CRUSHES Windows and OSXThank you for your message.

Perhaps I will be as fortunate as you were, 'shad0w', with installing SuSE Linux 10.1. I have the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 (as well as the openSuSE DVD and an enhanced DVD of openSuSE), so I will get installation support from Novell, although I realize that installation support is limited in scope.

I started using Linux just over four years ago, and I started with SuSE Linux Professional 8.0. (Actually, I had the 7.3 Professional retail package, but 8.0 got released immediately after my purchase -- and I was able to return 7.3, unopened.) I have stayed with SuSE ever since I have used Linux, although I have enjoyed experimenting with some "live" Linux discs.

SuSE Linux has never failed to recognize my hardware, although I did build the computer from scratch, ensuring that it was compatible with SuSE's hardware compatibility list. (My MSI motherboard, however, was not on the list, but it has served me well.)

I am very interested in Debian, 'shad0w', but I will not try installing it until after I have SuSE 10.1 (or openSuSE 10.0, for which I also have a DVD) installed and stable.

First, I have some work to do in the room where I have my computers, and will be setting up two more boxes, and I have to update some hardware in two of the computers, including the one that I built myself.

I will then try to set up Debian on a new partition. In addition, I have become interested in Sabayon Linux (http://www.sabayonlinux.org/), which is based upon Gentoo.

I, too, would like to see SLES 10 do well, but I know that RHEL has an established marketshare. (I needed an enterprise Linux distribution in order to install Oracle 10g, so I got CentOS 4.4, which I will be installing on a dedicated machine.)

Thank you, again, 'shad0w'.

Cordially,

David

Claude Rebeck

09-29-2006, 06:20 PM

DavidMD

09-29-2006, 07:30 PM

Greetings, Claude!Suse Linux 10.1 wouldnt install on my computer because I have less than 512 memory. but Suse 9.3 works well.
?? where can I find a forum that talks about C compilers? where do I look for gcc I think i might have wgcc but whereI am surprised that you could not install SuSE Linux 10.1 if you have 512-MB of physical memory, unless a bug in SuSE 10.1 caused your installation to fail.

Here are the basic hardware requirements for openSuSE 10.1, from the openSuSE Web site (http://en.opensuse.org/Download_Instructions):

"...SUSE Linux 10.1 supports most PC hardware components. The following requirements should be met to ensure smooth operation of SUSE Linux 10.1:

Processor: Intel Pentium 1-4; AMD Duron, Athlon, Athlon XP, Athlon MP, Athlon 64 and Sempron
Main memory: At least 245 MB
Hard disk: At least 500 MB (for minimal system); 2.5 GB recommended for standard system
Sound and graphics cards: Supports most modern sound and graphics cards...."

You might want to peruse the following URL to make sure that your system definitely meets the requirements and to review the instructions:

- <http://en.opensuse.org/Download_Instructions>

As you can tell, Claude, you have twice the required minimum main memory.

The Mad Penguin (http://www.madpenguin.org/) Web site has a video (http://www.madpenguin.org/images/reviews/suse101/siia/suseinstaller.html) of a "common installation" that lasts almost three minutes.

You might want to view it to see if your actual installation progressed similarly to the installation depicted on the video. (Of course, the Mad Penguin installation is in a VMware environment.)

I hope that someone with expertise can be of assistance to you, Claude. (I have not yet installed SuSE Linux 10.1; I plan to give the retail version a try, with the hope that Novell's installation support might be of benefit.)

As the expression goes, Claude, "please pardon my ignorance," but the only 'wgcc (http://interix-wgcc.sourceforge.net/)' that I have heard of is "a cross-compiler tool primarily written for Microsoft's Interix. Its primary purpose is to produce native Windows binaries (internally using the Microsoft Tool chain), and to mimic the behaviour of the GNU compiler collection." Surely, you do not have this 'wgcc' installed instead of the standard 'gcc'? :confused: I obviously am "missing something" here, for which I apologize.

I am definitely not qualified to help you solve this problem, Claude, but I am certain that a fellow JustLinux member will come to your assistance -- and I sincerely wish you success! :)

Incidentally, Claude, the programming and scripts section of the JustLinux forums is at the following URL:

- <http://www.justlinux.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28>

Perhaps I have been of some meagre help. I hope so.... :(

Cordially,

David

blackbelt_jones

10-03-2006, 04:09 PM

I still find it curious, 'blackbelt_jones', that there are a considerable number of positive reviews of 10.1 that give no indication of any problems. Were these reviewers extremely fortunate or just not thorough? :D

I'm assuming that's a rhetorical question, cause I can't imagine how I'm supposed to know the answer to that.

I didn't see those comments. Just about everyone I read who had a positive experience with 10.1 had to do a lot of fiixng to get it working, but then they liked it. I'll admit that I probably haven't read all of this huge, sprawling thread. I don't know if you have or not.

By the way, David, you seem like a person with excellent manners, so I'm sure you don't intend anything like this, but I don't like it when you put my username in quotes. I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that at least a few other people feel the same. It seems kind of sarcastic or something. I can't really explain it, but there it is. I take no real offense and I thought you'd want me to tell you.

blackbelt_jones

10-03-2006, 04:19 PM

Suse Linux 10.1 wouldnt install on my computer because I have less than 512 memory. but Suse 9.3 works well.
?? where can I find a forum that talks about C compilers? where do I look for gcc I think i might have wgcc but where

I agree with David, I think you want gcc. You probably already have it installed. Try typing "man gcc" for more information.

If you still want a forum to discuss c compilers, I suggest this one. (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)

Also, you should know that I've Run SUSE 10.0 successfully with 192 mb memory.

DavidMD

10-03-2006, 07:20 PM

Hello, again, Claude....where can I find a forum that talks about C compilers? where do I look for gcc....In addition to the 'man' pages on 'gcc', you also might want to check out the Free Software Foundation's home page on the GNU Compiler Collection (hence, gcc) at the following URL:

- <http://gcc.gnu.org/>

The GCC Online Documentation Web page provides documentation for various version of 'gcc', including the most current, as well as previous versions -- in various formats (to supplement the 'man' pages).

The URL is as follows:

- <http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/>

The GNU Compiler Collection is extensive and, over the years, I have read reviews extolling how 'gcc' excels many commercial compiler offerings. :)

Thanks.

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- The GNU Press (http://www.gnupress.org/) publishes several compiler-related manuals, among other books. (I recently ordered and received the GNU Emacs Manual (http://www.gnupress.org/emacs15.html). I was amazed at how quickly it shipped; plus, the actual price was less than half the cover price.)

Of course, free, on-line versions of GNU books are always available!

DavidMD

10-03-2006, 08:38 PM

Hello, blackbelt_jones.I'm assuming that's a rhetorical question, cause I can't imagine how I'm supposed to know the answer to that.

I didn't see those comments. Just about everyone I read who had a positive experience with 10.1 had to do a lot of fiixng to get it working, but then they liked it. I'll admit that I probably haven't read all of this huge, sprawling thread. I don't know if you have or not.Actually, I was referring to all of the positive, formal reviews I have read, on-line and in print, by professionals and writers for Linux publications.

I can only assume that the Linux professionals who wrote all of the glowing reviews of SuSE Linux 10.1 probably did not spend enough time with 10.1 to encounter some of the many "gotchas" that many people in this thread have experienced. (I was not, incidentally, referring to posts in this thread, and I apologize for not being clear.)

Individuals who have posted problems with 10.1 in this thread have encountered obvious, real flaws in SuSE Linux 10.1, although the old adage of "your mileage may vary" (YMMV) clearly applies to the 10.1 release.

If I may offer an example of commercial, non-open-source software, blackbelt_jones, there was a major discussion in the Adobe users forum about problems with Photoshop 7.0 running under the most recent release of Apple's Mac OS X 10.4 ("Tiger") for the Macintosh. People were also having problems with the Photoshop CS1 and CS2 (later releases) and "Tiger." I, on the other hand, experienced no problems whatsoever with Photoshop 7.X, perhaps because I did a "clean installation" of "Tiger" and not an upgrade. No general consensus arose in the forum and there were basically as many suggestions of how to avoid or minimize problems as their were people making those suggestions.

To a much lesser extent (to be sure), people have had varying degrees of difficulty with SuSE Linux 10.1, with some people installing 10.0 (or switching distributions), and other people having "to do a lot of fiixng to get it working," as you observe.

By the way, David, you seem like a person with excellent manners, so I'm sure you don't intend anything like this, but I don't like it when you put my username in quotes. I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that at least a few other people feel the same. It seems kind of sarcastic or something. I can't really explain it, but there it is. I take no real offense and I thought you'd want me to tell you.I apologize, blackbelt_jones, if my use of single quotes around your user name has offended you, or anyone else in the JustLinux forums. I had no hidden meaning or insulting motive for my 'user_name' format, except to set apart a user name from a person's actual name, such as Claude or David.

I respect anyone's right to go solely by a user name in the JustLinux forums, blackbelt_jones, and was merely differentiating between user names and actual names (at the risk of repeating myself). In addition, many user names, perhaps because we are used to typing in lower-case at the command line, begin with a lower-case letter, and I feel strange beginning a sentence with a lower-case letter (which I hope is self-explanatory, unless one reads a great deal of E.E. Cummings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.E._Cummings)). :)

I remember when the late moderator Mike Watts and I exchanged many messages in the forums and in personal messages.

(I have 80 personal messages from Mike stored, because I cannot bare to delete them; I believe that the PM section of JustLinux allows one to export personal messages for storage, which I need to do because I have reached my quota of personal messages -- and no one can send me a PM.)

Anyway, after Mike and I had exchanged numerous public and private messages, I asked him if he would mind telling me his first name, that I felt awkward referring to him as "mdwatts" whenever I wrote to him. Mike gave me his full name, including his middle initial, and gave me permission to address him as "Mike" publicly and privately.

I realize that many people go solely by their screen names for various reasons, such as to protect their privacy, and I respect them. Obviously, in many situations, it is safest to use a screen name. Personally, I would rather have people call me "David" than 'DavidMD', which is my screen name, because I feel that I am being treated as an individual person, and not abstractly as a screen name.

Other people obviously do not share my point of view (which is my personal perspective and not a position that I advocate), and I respect them. I certainly have meant no insult or anything remotely resembling an insult.

By putting user names in single quotes, I merely meant to make a distinction between screen names and "real" names -- and, during the years that I have used JustLinux, I have never "meant" anything by making that distinction.

You are the first person to express taking offense at my innocuous punctuation of screen names, blackbelt_jones, and -- again -- I offer my deepest apologies to you and to anyone else whom I have inadvertently offended. I was basically following the recommended punctuation of, for instance, The Chicago Manual of Style or any other major style manual. (Please note that my bachelor's degree was in English.) ;)

Again, I hope that you accept my apology and that you understand that there has never been any "subtext" to my use of the single quotes; I have done it for years in every forum I've used, and you are the first person who has expressed offense.

With respect, apologies, and regret --

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- As much as I have benefited from on-line communcations since my early days of e-mail, BBS discussions, FidoNet, UseNet, and the UNIX 'talk' command, I have always been very careful not to offend people. It is always easier (and preferable, to me) to communicate in person, because we have facial expressions, tone of voice, and nonverbal modes of communication. The Internet (especially, the Web), of course, has changed the world and how we communicate.

I am, for example, always very careful about sarcasm or humor in on-line communications. Many people have been offended because of the difficulty of translating the subtle nuances of human communication into pure text and "emoticons." ("Flaming," of course, is an entirely different, and most unpleasant, topic -- nor do I think it is relevant to JustLinux, thank goodness.)

DavidMD

10-03-2006, 11:37 PM

Installing SuSE 10.1 on a Dell Inspiron 600m

Hello, everyone.

I realize that this thread has become popular because of the unfortunate problems that people have had, and are having, trying to install SuSE Linux 10.1.

I found a Web site, Installing SuSE 10.1 on a Dell Inspiron 600m (http://egofanatic.com/linuxonlaptops/Dell600mSuse101.php), which may be of help to anyone trying to install SuSE Linux 10.1 on a laptop, most obviously if you have a Dell Inspiron 600m. :)

The Web site also provides a link to a page on the same site, Installing SuSE Linux 10.0 on a Dell Inspiron 600m (http://egofanatic.com/linuxonlaptops/Dell600m.php), for the possible benefit of anyone who has given up on SuSE Linux 10.1 and is trying to install 10.0.

One of my wishes, ever since I used a client's new Dell Latitude laptop for a three-month, contract technical-writing project early this year, is to find an affordable laptop (ideally, refurbished) in order to have my first "Linux laptop" -- a laptop running GNU/Linux only, not a Linux/Windows dual-boot system.

(Note: This wish is the subject for another thread in the hardware section. One positive aspect of some of the inexpensive laptops that I have seen on eBay, for example, is that they come with no operating system -- negating the need to pay the "Microsoft tax" on a laptop that will run Linux only -- or preloaded with a Linux distribution, although some of the distributions are dated. Caveat emptor, however -- I keep telling myself!) :eek:

Anyway, I do hope that the articles about installing SuSE Linux 10.1, or 10.0, on a Dell Inspiron 600m will be of help to someone. (Disclaimer: I came across this Web site during a Google/Linux (http://www.google.com/linux) search; I have no affiliation with the site; and, I realize that the instructions may not work for your computer.)

Thank you.

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- This link (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1625623,00.asp) provides a 2004 PC Magazine (http://www.pcmag.com/) review by Cisco Cheng of the Dell Inspiron 600m laptop. (Please note the responses to the review -- as well as the editor's rating versus the members' rating. Such details are important, of course.)

Old Bones

10-13-2006, 10:49 PM

New addition to 10.1 release:-

OpenSSE 10.1 'remastered' has been released. "This release combines the 10.1 GM and all online updates that we have released for 10.1 so far, including libzypp, which should make the installing and working experience much smoother for everyone. We have created new CD ISO images and supplied delta ISOs from the goldmaster. The non-OSS DVD images will show up next week, we had to retract and will remaster. If you are running SUSE Linux 10.1 already, there is no need to download these images at all. Just do an update from our update repository to get all our security updates. This remastered media are useful for new installations."

opensuse-announce (http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2006-10/msg00001.html)

DavidMD

10-13-2006, 11:57 PM

Hello, Old Bones.New addition to 10.1 release:-

opensuse-announce (http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2006-10/msg00001.html)Thank you very much for this vital information.

I have the open-source DVD, a special-edition of the open-source DVD, and the retail (non-OSS) DVD that I purchased from Amazon.com.

I will need to contact Novell about getting a replacement Golden Master DVD.

Thank you again, Old Bones!

Cordially,

David

blackbelt_jones

10-19-2006, 10:02 AM

NEW REMASTERED VERSION OF SUSE 10.1... so far, I love it!

DavidMD

10-19-2006, 01:37 PM

Hello, blackbelt_jones.NEW REMASTERED VERSION OF SUSE 10.1... so far, I love it!I assume that you are using the open-source version of SuSE 10.1?

I have gotten a reply from Novell "customer care" about replacing my (obviously) defective retail version (unopened, because I started reading this thread) and the representative did not give me a date for the release of the remastered retail version nor would he offer any suggestion except to return my current copy to the place of purchase.

Well, I purchased it from Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Novell-662644467122-BOX-SUSE-Linux-10-1/dp/158298302X/sr=1-1/qid=1161278756/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3529952-5139243?ie=UTF8&s=software) in July, and that's long past the thirty-day refund "window." I have sent e-mail to Amazon.com, but I am not optimistic.

It seems that Novell does not know, or will not admit, when the remastered retail version will be available. (It includes most of the multimedia plug-ins, preinstalled.) Amazon.com, of course, will be equally mute, and may offer me a partial refund -- at the very best.

Perhaps I should just try to download the DVD ISO for the open-source version of SuSE Linux 10.1? Given the size of such a download, even with my cable-modem connection, I would probably be better off buying the remastered open-source DVD. (Also, I would be sucking up all of my home network's bandwidth for Internet access!) :rolleyes:

Note to SuSE 10.1 Retail Users: If you have the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1, what steps have you taken and what success have you had?

Another factor, blackbelt_jones, is what the upgrade process will be when SuSE Linux 10.2 comes out late this year. Version 10.1 is the last retail version of SuSE Linux desktop that Novell will release, and I doubt that I could update it with the open-source version, 10.2.

I am going to contact my favorite on-line Linux vendor, PCTech101.com (http://www.pctech101.com/), to see where they stand regarding DVDs for the remastered open-source version of SuSE Linux 10.1; they've always been extraordinarily helpful to me -- so I know that I will actually get some help from them. :)

Thank you, blackbelt_jones, for your message. I am very glad that the open-source version of SuSE Linux 10.1 is working so well for you! (I assume that you installed 10.1 "from scratch"?)

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- What Novell should do, in my opinion, is place the ISO for the retail DVD on its Web site. If people download and install it, but do not have the registration code, they will not be able to get installation support. Of course, they would have the benefit of the preinstalled plug-ins and preconfigured multimedia programs -- so I can understand why Novell will not go this route.

DavidMD

10-20-2006, 06:58 PM

Comments from a SUSE Linux Developer in Nuremberg, Germany

Hello, everyone.

For the benefit of the one or two of you out there running the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1, ;) I have gotten news via e-mail directly from a SuSE developer in Nuremberg, Germany:

> "There will not be a retail remastered DVD."

The emphasis of "not" is mine.

Basically, you just need to run the on-line update during installation, assuming that you have not already installed. "You can find further details in the opensuse.org wiki -- or ask on the suse-linux-e mailing list."

"The necessary updates will run during the on-line update during installation. Just let the update run until everyting is installed. The update process may run two or three times."

Regarding the problems with YaST2, I received the following response: "You've heard some rumours. YaST is not broken, we have some problems with the package manager stack but during installation you should be able to update -- and then can continue to use YaST2. Smart is an option -- and you can disable Beagle."

If Beagle is still a problem after all of the updating, then I do not consider everything "fixed." If a tool or feature has to be disabled so that SuSE Linux 10.1 does not run at the speed of cold molasses, then I can only hope that Beagle will be fixed (no pun intended if you have a dog) :p, by SuSE Linux 10.2.

(I admit, of course, that the world is not perfect, nor is any Linux distribution -- so I am not going to worry too much about Beagle, although I really would like to get it running as intended.)

I have one final bit of information from my e-mail with the kind SuSE/Novell developer: "Thanks for your kind words. I do expect to see 10.2 in the retail shops as well -- and I hope it will be a smooth release!"

I think all of us can agree with this last sentence from the SuSE developer about 10.2! :D

Anyway, if you feel the need for the security of installation support with SuSE Linux, prepare for some "bumps" in installing the retail version of SuSE 10.1, but hope for SuSE's usual high standards for the retail (and open-source) release of SuSE Linux 10.2.

I, myself, will embark upon the bumpy ride of installing the retail version of SuSE Linux 10.1 -- because I did pay for it after all -- and I intend to make the most of my three months of installation support.

Finally, if anyone has managed to get Beagle to work efficiently, would you kindly share your secret of success in this thread? (Is disabling Beagle truly the only "solution"?) :confused: Thank you very much, in advance! :)

I hope that this message has been of some interest or help. :)

Cordially,

David

P.S. -- SuSE Trivia: First of all, SuSE is pronounced 'susə' -- e.g., 'susah' and not 'sooz'. ;)

Second of all, I should be writing "SUSE" and not "SuSE" all the time. SuSE was an acronym for for the German phrase, Software- und System-Entwicklung ("Software and system development").

When Novell finished its acquisition SuSE in January 2004, the company name was changed to SUSE Linux, which is an acronym for nothing. :rolleyes:

You would think that I could easily break this old habit, but my fingers automatically type SuSE! :o

(You can read more at the SUSE Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE) entry in the Wikipedia.)

______

"Auf Wiedersehen," as they say in Nuremburg (Nürnberg)! ;)

______