Somebody...please, indulge me here on those most basic, pedestrian level. If I can see the answer this simply, maybe it will give me a foothold to move on. I've got two printers-both epsons. One is the stodgy, admittedly agrivation prone 'Stylus Color 1520'. It is a known and reviled 'dog' on the market, but it prints out in a large paper format ('C size') so I like it for my land surveying work. The other is an epson Stylus C86.
When I install my Mandrake 10.1, it immediately and happily accepts the '1520' into the family, installs it as default printer, and we move on. The 'C86'? Nah! Linux doesn't even know it exists. Old and stodgy? Linux likes. New printer? Won't even say hello to it. Simply...how come? As I say, somebody indulge me this on a REALLY basic level, lemme get a grip on it at that level, and I (I sure hope!) will have a basis for moving on to greater insight.
EnigmaOne
05-20-2006, 01:48 PM
The computer has to speak something that the printer can understand to make it do what you want it to do. There are standards out there for computer-to-printer-speak.
Many of the new printers are using a non-standard communications protocol (language, if you will) on the wire between it and the host computer.
Much of this is to accommodate 'enhanced' printing capabilities, with the attendant paranoia on the part of the manufacturers; which dictates (to them, at least) that they must keep the bits on the wire a big, hush-hush secret, lest somebody either 'steal their thunder' or expose the printer language as just another trivial (and, possibly, kluged) printer control language.
Another factor is that these printers are 'black-boxed' all the time, in order to engineer a Linux-oriented driver for said peripheral. That takes time, so your newer printers are the ones that, most likely, are being worked-on now; with dfrivers to appear in distributions later-on.
It's really a pathetic practice [on the part of printer manufacturers] that makes each manufacturer feel special.
A printer that is not natively supported by the standard communications protocols, probably isn't much of a printer, in terms of being worth the money you might be willing to pay for it. Some are outright boat anchors (or would be that useful, if they were made of something other than almost 100% plastic).
chzlchp
05-20-2006, 02:07 PM
The computer has to speak something that the printer can understand to make it do what you want it to do. There are standards out there for computer-to-printer-speak., etc., etc...
Thanks, that explanation works on the level I needed.
To move beyond this (in functional terms) I guess I've now gotta dig into tutorials that force-feed the acceptance. e.g., I've got a web page saved that proposes to advise on installing some GIMP-based drivers that will get my 'C86' on board.
Oh, yea-on another note-sometime back you had gotten drawn into a dialog with me concerning 'enscript'. That's all been on the back burner-I've just simply been too busy with work to devote any meaningful time to all of this. I am ignoring work related stuff this weekend and pulling out some old (and some new) linux 'how the HECK can I ever understand all this?' questions I'd been exploring. Didn't forget about you. Sometime [today] I'm gonna pull up that entire thread and start working thru it. Then I'll get back. I appreciate the help (and the time) and I'm not deliberately ignoring it (well, I AM, but I gotta eat).
quip
05-20-2006, 04:01 PM
Gutenprint (http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/), formerly gimp-print, has supported the C86 for quite a while. However, your complaint (and EnigmaOne's response) ring quite true. The rule is that hp and epson are generally well-supported, but the others aren't (unless you purchase commercial software).
My new hp Photosmart actually has most of the functionality in the printer itself; meaning that it can be supported with minimal software quite quickly. For instance, it detects paper type on its own.
chzlchp
05-20-2006, 05:05 PM
I went wandering thru the maze of directories, and ended up at:
'/usr/share/cups/model/epson/readme'
therein were listed not one, but two different drivers for the Epson '1520'. Needless to say, the 'C86' wasn't mentioned.
So, got a question...actually two of them. Have I found the reason that the 1520 was readily accepted? And if so, if this is the beginning of the trail, can I find a later version of this file, and where? If the answer requires a kernel rebuild, uhm...think I gotta pass.
quip
05-20-2006, 06:45 PM
Could you specify your goal here? Are you trying to get your C86 working, figure out how linux recognizes printers, rant, or all of the above?
Most linux distributions ship with drivers for a lot of printers. The drivers are usually part of one of two packages: hpijs (more recently, hplip; this contains printers for hps) and gimp-print (more recently gutenprint, it contains primarily epson drivers, but some other manufacturers, too). If the driver for your printer is included in one of those two packages (which as you noted, most older models are), then linux will "say hello" to it. If not, it won't.
I have yet to see a mainstream, desktop distribution that didn't ship both of these packages. Some, like mine (Slackware) haven't yet updated to the new incarnations of the projects (hplip and gutenprint). However, they are easy to install, and work great.
If you want your C86 to work, go to the website I linked to, and download the package. Actually, Mandrake probably has an rpm for it. The latest release is gutenprint-5.0.0-rc3, which just came out a few days ago. Install it. If you need help doing that, then say so--but your printer is _very_ much supported.
celticgeek
05-20-2006, 06:59 PM
I'm using CentOS 4.3, and it did not recognize my Epson Stylus C88 printer, but when I told CentOS it was actually an Epson Stylus C84 printer, it worked very nicely. This may help the printing situation for your Epson C86.
That being said, I also feel like the printer manufacturers should provide drivers for GNU/Linux as well as for other operating systems, and I really don't care if they are proprietary or not, I just want the GNU/Linux drivers available.
chzlchp
05-20-2006, 11:29 PM
Could you specify your goal here? Are you trying to get your C86 working, figure out how linux recognizes printers, rant, or all of the above?
Actually, I had started out this thread as more a rhetorical question, having long since given up hope of running my C86 on the Linux side. But, perhaps, salvation is at hand.
I will go looking for this Gimp-successor, try it out, and then after I've thoroughly managed to botch things up, I will come back here looking for help.
quip
05-20-2006, 11:45 PM
I will go looking for this Gimp-successor, try it out, and then after I've thoroughly managed to botch things up, I will come back here looking for help.
That's the spirit! :D
chzlchp
05-21-2006, 06:15 PM
The results so far are coming in with mixed reviews. But I GOTTA put this to rest for now. Got homework that involves a traffic crew shutting down a major hiway at 5:30 tomorrow morning. Quickly:
-got 'gutenprint' installed (hadda do it as a tar zip-couldn't figure out the 'easy' way with Mandrake 10.1's 'sing-along' dialog boxes)
-and, well...it sorta went south from there, but I gotta go now. I'll get back to this during the week (?), and sort it out then. In the meantime, thanks for all the input.
Gutenprint (http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/index.php3) may support it a bit better using the C82 driver, you will need to download, ./config, make, and then make install. These are the newest "gimp-print" drivers, now named Gutenprint. used them on a newer Canon printer, they work well.
Turboprint (http://www.turboprint.de/english.html) says they support the C86, they charge a license fee, around $37 for a lifetime license. you can try the free trial first tto see how well they work.
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