index??

[dunbar]

Simple request: I need to know if there exists (and, if yes, it does exist, please tell me *where* it exists) any summary of any kind which tells me what commands might help me solve certain problems.

For Example, If I have problems with permissions, I'd need to use chown, chmod, setuid, and whatever more.

My need is to get beyond guesswork. I have to "guess" which command or which file works for what areas I am seeking to learn about or fix.
Man pages tell you how to use something which you have guessed might work, but with a hundred possible commands comes a hundred wrong guesses; each time I wanna research something.
What I'm looking for is something kinda like "use these commands to start a network" and "use these commands to add a user to the network".
No, tutorials are not what I want, I seek a simpler thing, more like an index type of thing. :confused:

[slapNUT]

$ apropos permissions
access (2) - check user's permissions for a file
chmod (1) - change file access permissions
chmod (2) - change permissions of a file
console.perms [console] (5) - permissions control file for users at the system console
faxadduser (8c) - add a fax user to the permissions file
faxdeluser (8c) - delete a fax user from the permissions file
fchmod [chmod] (2) - change permissions of a file
ioperm (2) - set port input/output permissions
pam_console (8) - control permissions for users at the system console
pam_console_apply (8) - set or revoke permissions for users at the system console
Tcl_Access (3) - check file permissions and other attributes
Tcl_Access [Access] (3) - check file permissions and other attributes
Tcl_Access [Tcl_Stat] (3) - check file permissions and other attributes
Tcl_Stat (3) - check file permissions and other attributes
Tcl_Stat [Access] (3) - check file permissions and other attributes
Tcl_Stat [Tcl_Access] (3) - check file permissions and other attributes

[dunbar]

slapNUT - thanks, an excellent start: it contains both "what it does" and command name.. reversed, but any spreadsheet can fix that. Yet that only covered permissions.... And you knew already that you needed to enter permissions... I kinda wanted to index everything I could ever ask about.

So, I should "appropos soundcard", "appropos x", "appropos hard disk", "appropos CD-RW", "appropos NIC", "appropos s3server", "appropos mouse", "appropos administration", etc etc?

Yeah, I know, just hand me the world will ya? ;)
No, that isn't a slap onto you, I never thought of that... just a sigh from me.
The appropos idea fails me because I simply do not know what question to ask appropos to research. :-\

Hey! Maybe I can type "appropos *" ...! =)
<:-) (the dunce cap).

[marvin]

The NHF (http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/index.html) section has some tutorials.

The Linux HOWTOs (http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/howtos.html) are also a good starting point. These might be somewhat hard to follow in the begining but check them out and post questions when there is something that will not work or that you don't understatnd.

[TC]

Try these course materials:
http://wks.uts.ohio-state.edu/sysadm_course/sysadm.html
http://wks.uts.ohio-state.edu/basic_unix_guide/unix_guide.html

These are both Unix course materials from Ohio State but you can use much of it with Linux.

;)

TC

Have fun computing

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: TC ]

[ph34r]

Also, assuming you installed Apache, you can download and install Simple Search from www.worldwidemart.com (http://www.worldwidemart.com) (look for Matt's script archive). For your search directory, point it to /usr/doc - and voila! you have an even larger search than man, info, and appropos can give you.

Of course, this takes some skill for setup, but it isn't that much...

[slapNUT]

Well here's a start maybe. Thirty Useful Unix Command (http://www.coe.montana.edu/ie/faculty/emooney/ime501/linuxhelp/ThirtyUnixCmds.html)

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: slapNUT ]

[slapNUT]

This is kinda stupid I didn't mention it but you have an index in /var/cache/man/whatis if you have installed makewhatis which you have or apropos would not work.

It's huge though and finding a command to use out of that file would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
<edit> Which is what apropos does, it basically does a grep <keyword> /var/cache/man/whatis

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: slapNUT ]

[dunbar]

Originally posted by slapNUT:
<STRONG>This is kinda stupid I didn't mention it but you have an index in /var/cache/man/whatis if you have installed makewhatis which you have or apropos would not work.

It's huge though and finding a command to use out of that file would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
&lt;edit&gt; Which is what apropos does, it basically does a grep &lt;keyword&gt; /var/cache/man/whatis

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: slapNUT ]</STRONG>

Wow! I should have come back here a bit sooner!

Here is what I did while I was gone:
apropos 0 &gt; 0,
apropos 1 &gt; 1,
apropos 2 &gt; 2,
...
apropos 9 &gt; 9.

That captured all the commands as per the number of its man section. Coulda done a through z. Would still be sorting page one....

Then, I imported 0 through 9 into StarOffice.
Sort, split into 2 columns, remove repeats (one command appeared twice under man 2).

Didja know that there are &gt;230 commands?
Didja know that there are &gt;600 tcl/tk entries?

Ok, that got me an elementary kind of index.

A few searches later, blah; I'm no better off than before. :rolleyes:


I see the above reference to /var/cache/man/whatis . I'll check there, but I have a funny feeling that I have already created it manually :D :D :D ROTFL!

Thanks, slapNUT!

Now for my next stupid question.

Any suggestions as to what is a good method to learn what command does what thing? You see, my apropos index idea looks pretty useless, so I'm kinda at a standstill.

You see, my Linux pc needs continuous help - it creates a new problem for me every week or so... good thing I bought it so I could 'learn Linux', eh?? It's teaching me, alright!! ;)

I tried man -k "fix my problem of the week", but I get lost in the results, if I get any at all.

I'm still hoping to learn, somehow, the index where if I have this problem, I can see every program which might work for that problem.

:rolleyes:

[Syngin]

Originally posted by ph34r:
<STRONG>Also, assuming you installed Apache, you can download and install Simple Search from www.worldwidemart.com (http://www.worldwidemart.com) (look for Matt's script archive). For your search directory, point it to /usr/doc - and voila! you have an even larger search than man, info, and appropos can give you.

Of course, this takes some skill for setup, but it isn't that much...</STRONG>

Wow! That's a really good idea. Never thought to combine the 2 before. THanks.

[dunbar]

Originally posted by marvin:
<STRONG>The NHF (http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/index.html) section has some tutorials.
SNIP
</STRONG>

Thanks!

If only I needed these tutorials, I'd be a happy man indeed!!! Sigh

Here are some problems I have solved which were also way waaayy waaaayyy beyond NHFs:

First:
Soundcard hopping around 3 weeks after install, worked fine all 3 weeks. Mouse also started hopping at the same time. I solved them already: 2 BIOS issues. There was no way for me to read in any NHF and get from my problem to my solution - from soundcard/mouse hopping to 2 BIOS settings (BIOS has to be set for PNP Aware OS = no, and IRQ5 has to be set to ISA). I thought Linux was PNP aware! I didn't know that the IRQ for the soundcard could be randomly chosen by the BIOS!

Second:
Permissions changed in my home directory one afternoon.... Picture this: I'm editing a config file, I saved that config file in my directory, and continued editing. On my next save, 3 minutes later, I could not write to my directory.
To fix the problem, had to bring up a terminal, run SU and then chmod -R and then chown -R all my own files; despite the fact that those file permissions listed properly!!!

Third:
21 days after first installing Linux, the hard disk light comes on, the system comes to a halt. Mid MP3, playing one second, 3 seconds later not one sound. Mouse is dead. can't switch terminals. Guess what? No NHF for that either. 20 reinstalls later (you know, ext2fs really really hates reboots...) I get the asnwer. Turns out the box was automatically running a program called tune2fs on my ext2 filesystem, a default setting chosen at install, decided by Mandrake, no popup to warn me. I knew nothing about it. It is not a cron job. I cought it one afternoon, via top.


Where are the help files for that stuff???
How does one find such a help file?? Ahhh!

:p

Honestly, I do thank you for your post, but I had problems far deeper than anyone cares to write about, never mind would there even be a NHF somewhere covering crashes, irq hopping, etc.

Bet I could write a few NHFs, though!

[ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: dunbar ]

[ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: dunbar ]

[dunbar]

Originally posted by TC:
<STRONG>Try these course materials:
http://wks.uts.ohio-state.edu/sysadm_course/sysadm.html
http://wks.uts.ohio-state.edu/basic_unix_guide/unix_guide.html
SNIP
[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: TC ]</STRONG>

Thanks.... my problems were wayyyyyyyyyy beyond basics. FWIW, I had already taken a company sponsored "Intro to Unix" 3 years ago, my needs for an index tried to relate that I needed to know the following:

These programs/commands can make changes which affect these problems.

[ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: dunbar ]

[dunbar]

Originally posted by ph34r:
<STRONG>Also, assuming you installed Apache, you can download and install Simple Search from www.worldwidemart.com (http://www.worldwidemart.com) (look for Matt's script archive). For your search directory, point it to /usr/doc - and voila! you have an even larger search than man, info, and appropos can give you.

Of course, this takes some skill for setup, but it isn't that much...</STRONG>

Thanks! I'll try sneakernet to bring "matts script" home. I think I can get Apache to work, at least, I hope I'm not that newbie, after all this experience!

EDIT
On second thought, maybe I'll pass: the script needs to run in a browser? I do not code HTML. Nor CPP, for that matter.

[ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: dunbar ]

[mdwatts]

Welcome to the club. :)

Whoever told you Linux/Unix is easy told you a lie.

I've been using Linux for around 2 1/2 years now and figure I know around 5% and still classify myself as a newbie. I'm still amazed on a daily basis on the power of Linux and all that can be done with the os and supporting applications and scripts.

You need patience and plenty of Linux resources. Luckily the web is full of good Linux resource material.

As for the NHF's... Someone had to take the time to write them and we are fortunate they did. Not everything is covered in them so it's up to others to continue contributing to the collection. Anyone is welcome to.

[dunbar]

Originally posted by WattsMD:
<STRONG>Welcome to the club. :)

Whoever told you Linux/Unix is easy told you a lie.


Um, yeah.... I already learned that: In my local LUG, the God of *nix beat me senseless when I asked for help.... he replied "RTFM", "RTFB", "Write the code yourself", "Stop blaming everyone for your own problems", "get a degree", "take classes" "what's a newbie doing installing such a complex OS?" etc.
This took place after I repeatedly responded that each of his responses didn't match my first post. I'll never respond to him again, and this guy was a LUG founder responding to me in that LUGs broadcasted email forum. I've seen a more friendly personality in a tapeworm. I'm not kidding - I never knew Linux people to be sooo stuck on themselves. About 1/2 of that LUG is like that. The other half is nice. So I've already learned the hard way that Linux freedom means I'm the slave of guys like him: he made the promise of friendly Linux support into a lie. Sigh, not your problem.


I've been using Linux for around 2 1/2 years now and figure I know around 5% and still classify myself as a newbie. I'm still amazed on a daily basis on the power of Linux and all that can be done with the os and supporting applications and scripts.


Similar here, but only recently have I learned that I must administer this PC (a foreign concept to M$ users), must also do that administration from the CLI (no fear here - I wrote DOS batch files as recently as last week!), and must administer without a clue as to what fixes what (working on that right now).


You need patience and plenty of Linux resources.


Patience = 1/stubbornness: I refuse to go back to M$. Many resources? Nope, I need only 1 or 2 excellent resources. Especially if one of them is already a guru!


Luckily the web is full of good Linux resource material.


But but but... see below.


As for the NHF's... Someone had to take the time to write them and we are fortunate they did. Not everything is covered in them so it's up to others to continue contributing to the collection. Anyone is welcome to.</STRONG>

I generally like NHFs, but, (please take no personal offense), the internet stuff I read (found via Google) is far too old (usually these are dead personal web sites). You know the reason why I say this, right? As a newbie, why would I trust a "How-to" for setting up XFree86 version 3.6.x to work for 4.2.0?? In M$ land that trust is begging for slaughter. Because of the age of the materials I found, I have learned to not trust personal pages.

And I also suffer from the massive inconvenience of not wanting to be conventional: I do not want Linux to surf, do not want Linux to serve files, printers, be a gateway, etc. I just want it to replace my CD/LP/45 collection with MP3s. Shameful, I know, but that is all I want. But I've left the topic.

LNO is the only place I read anything, and then with a huge grain of salt, because some of the stuff here is a tad old, too. The only reason I read any LNO stuff is that I think they (us? we? you?) are actually making certain that what is offered here can actually be of benefit to a newbie. As mentioned before, the internet sites I've dug up usually are forgotten pages, and they say so when you contact them: "Yeah, that still works if you are using that version...".

So, I beg of you - is there any use in telling me the internet is full of information? Remember, I can still find Windows 3.1 stuff posted as well.


If you wish, we can start a new thread on this concept.

[ 09 April 2002: Message edited by: dunbar ]

[mdwatts]

I started off reading this thread and the fact it's nearly a month old. Then I noticed my name near the bottom, so I figured I should reply.

I agree that some of the information you find on the web may be a bit old, but with the old is also the new. I find Google for Linux to be very helpful. With Google, a good Linux reference book, freshmeat.net (for apps) and linuxdoc.org there is nothing else I really need.

And I don't even need linuxdoc.org since I have all the how-to's, faq's, admin guides, manpages and application documentation installed by my distro. Most of those docs are installed in /usr/share/doc with the KDE app docs in /opt/kde2/share/doc/HTML/en.

By using DocView, I have access to all of the above through a Document Viewer. Very convenient. It would probably take me a year to read all the documentation installed on my HD.

&lt;edit&gt;

Forgot one. Your distro's website should have a wealth of install/admin/system etc. guides. Some will have a searchable knowledgebase.

[ 09 April 2002: Message edited by: WattsMD ]

[FyberOptyx]

I have a copy of the complete linux comand reference. I could email it if you wish (10 meg though PDF)

[dunbar]

Sorry that I haven't been right on top of things.... I have to post when I can find the time, and I can't ever post from the Linux box, and well, I simply can't be as "live" as you might wish me to be. Is it still possible for you to help despite the time lag? Oh, and the problems I cite are not live problems, I can reinstall Linux much faster than I can locate a solution in forums, because of the above situations.

Originally posted by WattsMD:
SNIP
I agree that some of the information you find on the web may be a bit old, but with the old is also the new. I find Google for Linux to be very helpful. With Google, a good Linux reference book, freshmeat.net (for apps) and linuxdoc.org there is nothing else I really need.


RTFBook: "Unix for Dummies" qualifies as a book, right? Was no help when I crashed X. I took a class called "Intro to Unix", that was no help when I messed up my e2fs /dev/hda (remember: use *nix versus administer *nix - two very different strategies).
I searched the internet; Google is quite handy, but as Google is the only search engine I use, that is where I found the obsolete user web pages which are so useless. I really don't want this to degenerate into a lame argument, but I already know that forum support is the last place to check. You see, I found no such index on my Linux box, got nothing from the class or the books I read, and Google didn't offer me a result (nothing that I could trust) when I looked therein.

Here I am. I followed the rules.

Explanation:
When did Linux come with an index telling me which command to use for which problem? Don't even try to answer that - man pages do not locate a command by you telling it your problem. As a newbie, you don't even know what your problem is! Some ex M$ people know nothing about permissions, command line, etc. So they can't even input a search string which apropos can match. Info pages are equally as useless. Ultimately, I want to determine possible commands according to me saying "can't write", and it (the app which searches what I gave it) spewing a list of every and all possible commands. Apropos gets real close, but still is oriented toward information in the man pages which explains only how commands work, not when to use a command. I need something to find the commands, then I'll check with man pages. That is why I'm trying to get an index going. I bet some that readers are chuckling at my index concept, but if this is how I'll learn whatever point the collective reader called "you" can see so clearly, maybe you can humor me as much as we all tolerate others. I'll hopefully try not to peeve people along the way.


SNIP
Most of those docs are installed in /usr/share/doc with the KDE app docs in /opt/kde2/share/doc/HTML/en.


Sigh. I'll be as brief as possible.
When I, a newbie, trashed X the first time, that avenue was useless. No, you can't say "use Lynx", because Lynx is *not* always installed by every newbie, Lynx is not always installed by default in every hard disk install, and I think that Lynx is never installed on any floppy - rescue floppy or boot floppy makes no difference. Further, what will a newbie read if they used the installers default e2fs file system, but a power failure cause fsck to muck up /dev/hda? Now the newbie finds he/she wants to fix things and the instructions are on the broken /dev/hda and they have nothing which can read the instructions anyway!

I know that you mean well, but I've been there, done both of them. Several times. These were among the very first problems I encountered with Linux. The point I want to make is what manual will you have me read and with what shall I read that HTML manual which resides on the trashed /dev/hda?? Makes me really upset that so many responses miss that point. No answer would have been better than an impossible answer!


By using DocView, I have access to all of the above through a Document Viewer. Very convenient. It would probably take me a year to read all the documentation installed on my HD.


Convenient only under certain circumstances. A floppy makes for very specific circumstances which do not coincide with DocView.


Forgot one. Your distro's website should have a wealth of install/admin/system etc. guides. Some will have a searchable knowledgebase.

[ 09 April 2002: Message edited by: WattsMD ][/qb]

Again, no offense, but why does everyone assume all Linux boxes are surfing? Mine is not setup to surf. Don't want it to surf, couldn't make it surf with NetZero anyway. Couldn't even get a NIC configured when I tried it. Lotsa documentation in places where I can't read it. Linux claims to be open and that it offers documentation beyond your wildest dreams.... Yes, somewhere, someday, somehow a newbie can possiby find some revision will apply to each and every problem. I want the solution to be within reach of every possible Linux newbie and their failure: their own floppy. Not the internet, not in semi-human readable form. Big peeve of mine. Big goal for me as well.
That is why I decided to create an index, so I can fit it onto a single floppy (OK, maybe not on the boot/rescue floppy; but at least less than 1.44 megs, for use on a second floppy) and maybe we newbies can get some benefit from knowing what to use to fix our crashed box, and have that information be available in a human readable format, with as small an application I can possible make, and not depending on the internet or HTML. Phew. I didn't think I'd have to tip my hand, but that is my goal for information I requested at the start of the thread.

[ 10 April 2002: Message edited by: dunbar to correct contexts and spellings :p ]

[ 10 April 2002: Message edited by: dunbar ]

[dunbar]

Originally posted by FyberOptyx:
<STRONG>I have a copy of the complete linux comand reference. I could email it if you wish (10 meg though PDF)</STRONG>

No need right now; if that is the official title, I'll try to find it. I'll get back to you with a new post if I cannot find it; thanks for the offer.

[dunbar]

http://ctdp.tripod.com/os/linux/commands/index.html is nice, for the "I want it all in one place" user who *can* surf.