If I switch to Debian...

[rattus]

Right, OK, here we go.

I realise I'm probably going to start another debian/slack/drake whoar (you can't really call it a war, it all seems fairly gentle ;) ) with this, but I'm gonna ask anyway.

I've been playing with (as opposed to using :) ) various flavours of Linux for about a year now. RH 6.2 convinced me that Linux was a viable alternative, and Drake 7.2 (current box) showed me it could be _real_ easy.

But I'm running on a P166 w/ 48M RAM and primarily using KDE for my desktop (BTW, KDE 2.1 rocks :D ) and thus things are a little slow.

Before you ask: No, I don't want to switch desktop/window manager :rolleyes:

I've heard ppl suggest that Drake may be a little bloated, and seen others raving about apt-get, and thus am considering a switch to Debian - so now we get to the questions :)

1) Is Debian likely to run faster than Drake out of the box? Would a kernel recompile for Drake achieve the same effect?

2) I connect to the net over a 56K dial-up: How big is a _genuinely_ functional Deb box download? this means, for me: KDE -> X, Tetex, Development environment (for Xmame, Gameboy emulator and Wine - and maybe some devel of my own one day) and the standard *nix cli goodies - I'd like Star Office as well, but have a 'generic' .tar.gz of 5.1 on a CD that I can use.

3) I (so far) like to stay up-to-date with the tools I use (D/L ing KDE 2.1.1 as I type :) ) - is this difficult with Deb? Will I need to get the base system, then the KDE/XFree that come with potato, then upgrade, or can I go straight to the latest versions?

That should do for now - TIA

Rattus

[Tyr-7BE]

If you can get past the install (considerably more difficult than RH or Drake), and you can get X up and running (people always seem to have trouble), then Debian is the system for you. The base install is roughly 35 megs. If you're looking to add a few more goodies on there like X and office, etc...you'll probably be looking at something well below 500 megs. And yes, Debian straight out of the "box" (a decent sized install) will definately run faster than Drake.
If you have a 56K modem, I recommend getting some Debian CDs. Apt is wonderful, but it's a hell of a lot more wonderful when you have a high speed connection. Granted, you could always start apt-getting at night and when you wake up it'll be pretty, but it'll take a long time. Just last night I downloaded 125 megs from apt-get (I hadn't done an apt-get upgrade in a looooooong time).
As for keeping your system current, that's what apt is all about. "apt-get upgrade" will check all of the apt-gotten software on your box, check their servers for updates (usually added to the servers the day of release), and download the new version, removing the old but keeping all your prefs and settings.
I very highly recommend Debian, so long as you do some reading before hand. If you do a lot of reading, can compile a kernel (the install makes you select some of the options), know your hardware, and are willing to donate some time, Debian is the one for you. Just try to get some CD's since you're on a modem :)

[rattus]

Originally posted by Tyr-7BE:
If you can get past the install (considerably more difficult than RH or Drake)

I've heard plenty of ppl talk about how difficult Deb and Slack are to install - what exactly does this mean? Difficult in the sense of hard to understand, or difficult in the sense of hard to get to work?

FWIW, I built the machine myself, am more than happy typing man xxx to find out things, and was around in the days when a 16K RAM expansion was a big deal - so I'm not frightened of a command line interface :)

can get X up and running (people always seem to have trouble)

What sort of trouble? I've got no problem with having to edit my own X86Config (had to do it to get X going on my monitor in Drake, so it won't even be that different if that's all that's required :)
If you have a 56K modem, I recommend getting some Debian CDs.
Pretty much what I'd figured myself :)
As for keeping your system current, that's what apt is all about. "apt-get upgrade" will check all of the apt-gotten software on your box, check their servers for updates (usually added to the servers the day of release), and download the new version, removing the old but keeping all your prefs and settings.
How does this square with the advice to get some CD's due to my modem connection? Given that what I'm likely to do is install Deb and then _immediately_ upgrade at least X and KDE, can I do the base install and then apt-get the updated versions without having to install the potato release versions (I found the Deb install documentation to be unclear on this point - certainly assumed that I'd be happy with what was on the poatato CD's)

Looks like it might be "Debian, here I come" :D

[ 28 March 2001: Message edited by: rattus ]

[Hatecrime69]

I have slack running on a p100 sys w/ 90mb ram. i also run kde (the version 7.1 includes, i haven't hooked it up to the lan/cable modem yet) I know with slack you have to make your partions through some linux varitys of fdisk (cfdisk and something else) when i first made my swap partion i didn't know (or forgot, whatever it was) that i had to set it with a command (i also have mandrake running on a k6-2 450) and my first install i didn't even use the part of the hd i made for a swap. Also another thing to worry about in slack (witch is good for people with weird systems) is that you have to manually choose your kernel type (like, for x86, alpha, whatever i can't rember much at the moment) and my very first install i didn't choose that right (a kernel panic occoured). But i eventually got it installed right and configured xf86 (with limitaions to my onboard vid :( ) and running kde

[Strike]

've heard plenty of ppl talk about how difficult Deb and Slack are to install - what exactly does this mean? Difficult in the sense of hard to understand, or difficult in the sense of hard to get to work?
FWIW, I built the machine myself, am more than happy typing man xxx to find out things, and was around in the days when a 16K RAM expansion was a big deal - so I'm not frightened of a command line interface

Sounds like you'll be okay. It's "hard" in that it's not as pretty and straightforward as some of the other ones. But it allows you a lot of choices.
What sort of trouble? I've got no problem with having to edit my own X86Config (had to do it to get X going on my monitor in Drake, so it won't even be that different if that's all that's required

Then you should be fine - if you have already set up X by hand in one distro, it should be the same config options and whatnot.
How does this square with the advice to get some CD's due to my modem connection? Given that what I'm likely to do is install Deb and then _immediately_ upgrade at least X and KDE, can I do the base install and then apt-get the updated versions without having to install the potato release versions (I found the Deb install documentation to be unclear on this point - certainly assumed that I'd be happy with what was on the poatato CD's)
Looks like it might be "Debian, here I come"

Well, get the CDs because there are tons of things to choose from. Once you install what you choose, you don't have to download too much to upgrade (except for dist-upgrades, and for the ocassional X upgrade (which often runs me >50MB of updates)).

I hope it will be "Debian, here I come." :D

[Tyr-7BE]

Strike's right...if you have experience editing the XF86Config file by hand, then you shouldn't have that much trouble with getting X up and running in Debian. My big problem was that I had to find out that I didn't have the server I was trying to use. One download of XF86_SVGA later and I was ready to go!
The 56K thing is a hinderance no matter what distro you use...no matter what you want to upgrade, you'll always have a slow connection. This would present a HUGE problem if you were installing from floppies, but if you're getting a cd then it's no big deal. Plus for the larger upgrades, like I said before, you can always leave it going overnight and when you wake up in the morning it's pretty :)
And as for the install, the difference is that it will ask you about some of the filesystem supports you want to compile into your kernel, some of the block devices, etc...it's a slimmed down "menuconfig". From your description of your experience, you should be alright. A puter vet. like you could probably really benefit from a customizable distro like Debian. Give it a go!

[Derango]

I would also like to mention that debian might not make that much of a difference for you.

KDE is still memory intensive, and with 48MB of ram, it will start using the swap partition a whole lot. You realy need more ram for it to run smoother.

[bin]

Debian in it's raw form is a little hard to get going. The very best and easiest distro was Stormix - they're having financial probs and getting a d/l is difficult. Progeny are just up and running with an RC1 - should be good, and Libranet are there with v 1.9 - costs you $15 for the d/l, or v1.82 which is free. Libranet is easy to install and comes with all the latest goodies. Apt-get is absolutely brilliant, provided you accept that some of the bleeding edge stuff in the unstable areas can be a little iffy. However, anything out of potato will work, and woody will almost always work. The KDE stuff for Debian is handles via http://kde.tdyc.com. Stuff off the KDE site doesn't always work.
Is it good, well I installed Stormix on my Laptop without KDE, ran apt-get install task kde and went away and left it. No mess, no fuss just did it!!!!
I think it is fair to say that most people who try Deb based distros rarely go back.
In the Slack variations, go to www.ibiblio.org/peanut. (http://www.ibiblio.org/peanut.) The Peanut d/l is around 85mb, the install is about as hard as falling off a log - provided you read the install guide. You'll get a good, latest toys Slack style distro. It works a little differently from Deb and RH, but is very nice - comes with a handful of different generic kernels. Could be useful if you're having speed issues as you may well find that you need top re-compile something lean to go with your machine.
Red Hat stuff is IMHO generally foul but it's a personal choice. Drake have done wonders with the basic RH package, but boy is it bloated - and too glitzy.
But hey, whatever you use just remember it's still Linux.

[mrBen]

As you can see from my signature, I installed Debian last weekend. I have a full set of 2.2r2 (Potato) disks (which, unfortunately, don't come with KDE). Install was no problems, except it doesn't give you any hdd details, which meant that it kept on freezing when it ran out of disk space! IMHO it's not that much more difficult than Mandrake, just not quite as pretty.

Configuring X is always fun, but I have got reasonably used to it by now. Again, not very pretty, but if you have your manuals to hand, it does the job.

Apt-get is fantastic, even just loading from CDs (I only have a winmodem at the moment).

Personally, I think having a set of CDs is always helpful. Saves time/downloads if you ever need to reinstall.

The most difficult thing, IMHO, with a distro like Debian is getting your non-critical hardware set up - soundcards, 3d cards and the like. But it is sooo slick :D

:cool: Debian :cool: