Hi!
I am new in the Linux world and I would like to have my own Web server. Am I being to optimistic by thinking that I can actually set up a Web server as my first contact with Linux?
There are probably other threads about the same topic, so feel free to redirect me to another thread, but although I have done some searching in the forum and on the net, no newbie-friendly answers have been given to me :(
Earlier in this post, I wrote that I am new in Linux world, which almost true, and to save you some typing, I'd like to give a more detail about my situation.
I have used Unix a bit, and most of the basic functions;
I have downloaded several distributions and tried to install them on an older machine (Pentium III, 733 MHz, 128 MB RAM, bought 2000). Couldn't make Fedora work on the machine - way to advanced for my dinosaur-box. FreeBSD 5.3 is currently installed on it, although I haven't done that much of an effort to actually understand what I got installed, nor if it is possible to set up a web server using this very distribution;
I am totally open to any suggestions, from which distribution I should use to which server could be suitable for my needs, which are to be able to host my website (I'm a web design newbie, too, but that is another story ;));
More questions will probably come as the discussion evolves but let's say that to start with, I'm dying to get a suggestion of a recommended distribution for my old machine; as for the other part of the post, answer to question when you have time :p
Thanks in advance!
Hayl
08-03-2005, 10:07 AM
any distribution that you like.
and the server is apache.
quip
08-03-2005, 10:45 AM
I have downloaded several distributions and tried to install them on an older machine (Pentium III, 733 MHz, 128 MB RAM, bought 2000). Couldn't make Fedora work on the machine - way to advanced for my dinosaur-box.
I find this hard to believe. Not that you couldn't get it to work, but that it won't work on that machine. It is true that some distributions require better/newer hardware to run efficiently, but all of them are made of the same basic components. What is far more likely is that fedora did not support some of your hardware "out-of-the-box".
IMO, the single biggest piece of advice I could give most new linux users is to know their hardware; at least the basics, anyway, such as your brand of video card and its memory, etc. There is usually a pretty easy workaround for most "unsupported" hardware, but you need to know what to look for.
As Hayl said, you can really pick any you choose. The hardware support comes from the kernel itself or 3rd party software that loads a driver into the kernel.
Clear as mud? ;)
psych-major
08-03-2005, 11:17 AM
In general I prefer Slackware, it's not as hard to set up as its reputation implies, and it seems to run particularly well on slightly older hardware. In fact, www.slackware.com is hosted on a Pentium III 600!!
The Box
Coming in second place on the importance scale is the box. The site runs off of a Pentium 3 600 mHz with 512 megabytes of RAM. The machine runs the latest version of Slackware Linux and has a T1 connection to the Internet.
As already mentioned, pretty much any distro should work. It's really a case of being intimately familiar with your hardware up front, narrowing the distro search down to two or three contenders, and then reading, reading and reading some more!!
Good luck!
dkeav
08-03-2005, 12:23 PM
as far as freebsd goes, what do you think is serving most of the www
try bsdguides.org for help setting up freebsd to do whatever you want
KenBarslow
08-03-2005, 04:35 PM
Thanks all for your tips! I will probably give FreeBSD a try using bsdguides.org. If it doesn't feel like what I'm looking for, Slackware will be my second choice.
Originally Posted by quip
I find this hard to believe. Not that you couldn't get it to work, but that it won't work on that machine.
I guess I should have read your comment before I installed Fedora; that way, I would have checked out my graphic card... The problem was that every time I minimized a window, it would only partially disappeared. Well, well, always something new to learn!
Thanks again and I'll post the results of what experimentations ;)
phlipant
08-03-2005, 07:25 PM
You didn`t say what size disk you have. With only 128mb memory, setting up a fairly large swap partion will be very, very important. Fedora is a large distro, which requires quite a bit of memory. You may have some problems with this disk/memory relationship.
KenBarslow
08-03-2005, 07:39 PM
I have 20 GB. Should I try to get more RAM?
phlipant
08-03-2005, 07:57 PM
if convenient, I would recommend 500MB at the bottom end, with 500MB+ swap. I personally use 2GB (with 2.4GB swap), admittedly on a much newer system. As a alternative, you could just set up 500MB+ swap. It may be a tad slow, but will not crash from a memory crunch. I think 128MB would be ok for a web server only, and your box is more than sufficient for a small webserver. It will only be slow when running kde/gnome.
So I suppose I would use a large swap for now and add memory later if the speed seemed intolerable (i.e. I`m a cheap bastard :D).
KenBarslow
08-03-2005, 08:06 PM
Hmmm, swap... I could of course be a good boy and try to find the definition of this word in the Linux environment but since you've been so good to me, phlipant, I'll dare asking you for a little clarification. :)
(It doesn't feel however that you are a cheap regarding the time you generously give to others ;) )
phlipant
08-03-2005, 08:30 PM
Hmmm, swap... I could of course be a good boy and try to find the definition of this word in the Linux environment but since you've been so good to me, phlipant, I'll dare asking you for a little clarification. :)
(It doesn't feel however that you are a cheap regarding the time you generously give to others ;) )
swap is a disk partition which acts like an extention to the memory of your computer. While it is not addressed dynamically, it can "swap" idle processes from memory to this disk partition, so that memory is available to other processes. If the idle process is woken up, it is "swapped" back into "real" memory.
When you installed Fedora (or any other of the fine distros available) you had a screen that allowed you to set up your disk partitions. I recommend you partition manually (the automatic partitions are a dog). Delete all old partitions and then add two partitions for your system. The first will be called swap (with 512MB) the second will be called / (with all remaining space on the disk). Don`t worry about the order, Fedora will always put swap at the end of the disk.
Following installation, the file /etc/fstab should have a line that looks somthing like
LABEL=SWAP-sda2 swap swap defaults 0 0
if you type the command free it should look something like
The number following Mem: is the total amount of memory (required for active processes), the number following Swap: is the amount of swap memory (idle processes only). The sum of the two, is the amount of memory available for combined active and inactive processes.
KenBarslow
08-03-2005, 08:36 PM
Is it normal to feel more newbie after you've been learning new stuff?! :D
Well, I will surely keep this in mind. I have partitioned few harddisks when installing Windows and I had never heard of SWAP. It seems to me that there are ways around in Linux that almost sound like art!
Thanks again phlipant!
phlipant
08-03-2005, 08:52 PM
Is it normal to feel more newbie after you've been learning new stuff?! :D
Get used to it, I started in UNIX in 1978 and i`m still learning.
Well, I will surely keep this in mind. I have partitioned few harddisks when installing Windows and I had never heard of SWAP. It seems to me that there are ways around in Linux that almost sound like art!
Microsoft actually has some strange thing called a "swap file", I`m told it is so bad as to be useless. It is possible to set up a "swap file" in Linux and I know for a fact it is useless.
You are right about ways around Linux, it is very experiential. In the end, you will find yourself thinking like the computer.
KenBarslow
08-03-2005, 09:00 PM
I started in UNIX in 1978 and i`m still learning.
I really had comment this one: :eek: :)
In the end, you will find yourself thinking like the computer.
This had already begun! I was mad at someone this morning and the only thing I was able to say was: "1000111010100101011010" ;)
ThanksCount++;
soulestream
08-03-2005, 09:27 PM
. I personally use 2GB (with 2.4GB swap),
Ill bite...
why in the world do you need 2.4GB of swap?
soule
phlipant
08-03-2005, 10:07 PM
K-means clustering and monte carlo simulations. I have actually used as much as 1GB of it. :)
KenBarslow
08-05-2005, 08:42 AM
Well, I'm just about to give up FreeBSD. I kind of need a pep talk or some sort of "don't worry Ken, I've been there quite often" or whatever you want to help me keeping the faith...
What I have done since I asked my question about a suggestion for installing a web server goes as following:
installed the coffee-make in the computer room
read a lot of documentation - my monitor look actually older now; maybe I should give it a break ;)
decide to install FreeBSD 4.11, which I did alright I guess. I was able to use the basic Linux (Unix?) commands and configure a lot of stuff, such as mouse, keyboard, even network connection (internet)
the rest of my quest can be resumed as trying to understand how to install programs (especially lsof - still don't know if it is important...) and trying to understand if I'm getting closer to using a graphical interface
So, what do you think? Should I give up FreeBSD, which maybe is too difficult to start with? Is Slackware easier to install, configure and use? Most of all, is it possible to obtain good results for a web server on Slackware, compared to FreeBSD?
Thanks for giving help, and there is no need to answer all of my questions! Just a little "come on man, don't worry" would be appreciated.
Hayl
08-05-2005, 08:49 AM
You didn`t say what size disk you have. With only 128mb memory, setting up a fairly large swap partion will be very, very important. Fedora is a large distro, which requires quite a bit of memory. You may have some problems with this disk/memory relationship.
how so?
he's just to be running a webserver... I would certainly hope he isn't running X on a server-only box.
Hayl
08-05-2005, 08:51 AM
Well, I'm just about to give up FreeBSD. I kind of need a pep talk or some sort of "don't worry Ken, I've been there quite often" or whatever you want to help me keeping the faith...
So, what do you think? Should I give up FreeBSD, which maybe is too difficult to start with? Is Slackware easier to install, configure and use? Most of all, is it possible to obtain good results for a web server on Slackware, compared to FreeBSD?
Thanks for giving help, and there is no need to answer all of my questions! Just a little "come on man, don't worry" would be appreciated.
Don't worry about it and don't give up.
Start new threads with specific questions regarding any problems you are having in BSD.
KenBarslow
08-05-2005, 08:58 AM
That's what I'll do! Tx for your support :)
phlipant
08-05-2005, 09:04 AM
how so?
he's just to be running a webserver... I would certainly hope he isn't running X on a server-only box.
In fact he is/was. In his second post, he said he was having difficulties minimizing windows in Fedora.
dkeav
08-05-2005, 10:41 AM
install freebsd 5.4, then cd /usr/ports/irc/irssi/
su
make install clean
exit
irssi
/server freenode
/join #justlinux
for realtime help
OR!!!!!!!
read the guides at bsdguides.org
here are some reasons why not to give up
http://www.w3reports.com/index.php?itemid=869
http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frameset.php?pageid=http%3A//www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/press/021104.php
http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=1908
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/06/07/nearly_25_million_active_sites_running_freebsd.htm l
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/04/04/most_reliable_hosting_providers_during_march.html
here is some help, please dont make me read them to you
http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/
http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/beginners/installation.php
http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/misc/update_ports_tree.php
http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/misc/upgrade_port.php
phlipant
08-05-2005, 12:21 PM
I really love BSD, as I have used it at work, but I must say "It is not for the faint of heart". Rather than give up on a distro (like FCx), it might be worthwhile to talk through your issues. Changing distros over a roadblock, will only find you a new roadblock. If Fedora is not to your tastes, I might suggest Ubuntu. While I am a Fedora booster, this forum has had only glowing reports for the ease of Ubuntu installation and management. I should add, as a caveat, I have never used Ubuntu, but understand from others that it is quite straight-forward.
Just my two Krona
ZenelithCalling
08-05-2005, 12:27 PM
Well, I'm just about to give up FreeBSD. I kind of need a pep talk or some sort of "don't worry Ken, I've been there quite often" or whatever you want to help me keeping the faith...
So, what do you think? Should I give up FreeBSD, which maybe is too difficult to start with? Is Slackware easier to install, configure and use? Most of all, is it possible to obtain good results for a web server on Slackware, compared to FreeBSD?Seriously, don't worry. I've found that attitude to be self-defeating. Have fun instead. I highly suggest Absolute BSD by Michael Lucas. It helped a lot when I put up my FreebSD box. It won't answer all questions, no book ever does, but its a good book and aid.
dkeav
08-05-2005, 01:02 PM
well another plus side to not hopping out on your OS when you encounter a problem, is with freebsd as a more tradional unix you are going to learn a lot more about unix systems much faster, even though you have to work a slight bit harder maybe. but stick with it and we will help you out
phlipant
08-05-2005, 01:17 PM
well another plus side to not hopping out on your OS when you encounter a problem, is with freebsd as a more tradional unix you are going to learn a lot more about unix systems much faster, even though you have to work a slight bit harder maybe. but stick with it and we will help you out
dkeav is so right, OS hopping only leads back to Microsoft.
Stay the course, once you get there, you will wonder why?
KenBarslow
08-05-2005, 01:37 PM
Thanks all for your support!
Here a little paragraph for dkeav. I just had a look at the first five links you have posted. FreeBSD is definitly worth the pain it causes me right now trying to install it.
As for the other files you have recommended, I had already carefully looked at http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/ and this how I was able to install FreeBSD 4.11. I could even set up my network connection and fetch some files from the internet. Thanks to this website, I was also able to play a little with MySQL, using http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/databases/chroot_mysql.php before I could install Apache and PHP (http://bsdguides.org/guides/freebsd/webserver/apache_ssl_php_mysql.php). I also found http://www.freebsd.org/ports/index.html quite a good place to know when I'll finally understand the basics of FreeBSD. These guides are great but it is pretty to manage to get an error message when all of the operations are manually entered, resulting in the obligation to start all over again, not knowing where the problem was... This is why I'm trying to have the graphical interface as soon as possible, to skip the manually entering part.
I guess I'll try out the 5.4 - although it is not recommended for beginners as I understand a it says in a lot of documentation. Hopefully I'll be able to get instant help online. That'd be great!!
And you are so right; I'm learning like crazy. It's getting easier and easier, and no, I'm not going to give up. Instead, I'll put my defeating attitude in the back pocket and try to forget it ;)
Thanks again for your help! I'll keep you up-to-date :p
dkeav
08-05-2005, 02:46 PM
5.4 has nothing to do with expert or beginners, the old tech branch used to be stable branch that was more hardened and tested code for "MISSION CRITICAL" type servers, and the new tech branch ie (5.x) being the more bleeding edge kernel and world code that was not for mission critical applications but more for daily type users or desktop users, (ie if its in your house and not running NASA use the net tech branch) but as of 5.4 the old tech branch is primed to switch up to 5.x, soon they will be starting the NEW new tech branch when 6.0-CURRENT is released in a month or so, that will make 5.4 and up the old tech (STABLE) branch for mission critical applications, therefore useing 5.4 now is a really really really good decision
Syngin
08-10-2005, 11:43 PM
I've heard good things about the FreeBSD but haven't tried it myself. After a bit, it'd be cool if you were to start a thread regarding your experiences with it for the other users.
KenBarslow
08-11-2005, 04:24 AM
I've made up my mind. I decided to go with Ubuntu. I just thought it was a little difficult as a newbie to start of with FreeBSD, although it has been a very good way for me to get used to UNIX.
Thanks all for you help and support! I used just about everything that you can read in this thread; I even tried irssi -> #justlinux that dkeav recommended; I was very disappointed. I was treated the exact opposite way justlinux is thought, saying being a newbie isn't a good thing there... The first thing I wrote was that I was running FreeBSD Linux, and got a LMAO and a I'll put it on bash.org by an admin. Now knowing that FreeBSD is actually Unix, I really don't know what made me think that it was Linux?! Could it be that I have been recommended FreeBSD in a forum called justlinux, that I was in a justlinux chat when I wrote my now famous quote and that I downloaded FreeBSD iso at www.linuxiso.org :rolleyes: Well, well, I'll stop whining and just say as it is: as newbie, this is the last thing you want to here. No wonder why so many computer related threads starting with "I know this is stupid put I'll ask anyway...", or "Please don't laugh but I'd like to ask if...". Now it's true, whining over ;)
To conclude on a positive note, I know have a working web server that runs on my PIII, 733 MHz, 128MB RAM, using Ubuntu, Apache, PHP4 and MySQL. I also have my website connected to my server, using the domain that I bought last week. I feel great! :D What can we say? I'd say mission accomplished!
psych-major
08-11-2005, 11:05 AM
To conclude on a positive note, I know have a working web server that runs on my PIII, 733 MHz, 128MB RAM, using Ubuntu, Apache, PHP4 and MySQL. I also have my website connected to my server, using the domain that I bought last week. I feel great! :D What can we say? I'd say mission accomplished!
Congrats on your success, please feel free to come to JL anytime for honest answers with no disrespect or rudeness. (Hopefully!) :rolleyes:
What's the URL so we can check it out?
KenBarslow
08-11-2005, 01:45 PM
Thanks for your post psych-major! :)
As for my website :o , I thought I'd get away with it and nobody would notice that I did not write it down in my last post but how wrong!! Well, the design is starting to look like something but the content... no comments!
Here it is anyways: www.duval.se
Cheers!
psych-major
08-11-2005, 01:50 PM
The design is neat! I just wish I knew Latin so I could read the text... :D
Isn't it a great feeling to have a neat little webserver on essentially discarded hardware and an open source O.S. and software suite!
Also, based on your avatar, you should check out Zen Linux (http://www.zenlinux.org/drupal/)
KenBarslow
08-11-2005, 02:04 PM
I just put a link especially for you, psych ;)
Originally Posted by psych-major
Isn't it a great feeling to have a neat little web server on essentially discarded hardware and an open source O.S. and software suite!
I couldn't have expressed it better! It almost feels *extreme enthusiasm warning here* unreal... I mean, it took me almost two weeks, I sure got help, but still; from having an old machine that was only sitting there, eating dust, I now have a freaking web server to tell the whole world lorem ipsum, lorem ipsum! I can even decide what ever I want in the box, how much space I want - no need to depend on a web hosting service. And I'm don't even know more that a tiny fraction what you can get thanks to the open-source!
Can it be better? NO! :D
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