RAM upgrade, no improvement

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

I just added 512 mb of RAM to the 256(somewhere around 256, I forget) I already had. I expected a noticeable difference in preformance, but I just can't tell. I thought Slack 10.1 was supposed to sence when I added RAM on bootup, but it still slows and hangs at all the same places. I know this can go faster and hdparm never made a noticeable difference either.

[klackenfus]

If you run Top, what does the entry for Mem say? Are you sure the memory is being recognized? Also, where is your system hanging?

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

top - 18:54:21 up 4:09, 1 user, load average: 0.45, 0.33, 0.20
Tasks: 99 total, 2 running, 97 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 1.6% user, 1.6% system, 0.0% nice, 96.7% idle
Mem: 766680k total, 403468k used, 363212k free, 50096k buffers
Swap: 32088k total, 0k used, 32088k free, 212380k cached

It looks like it's recognizing it(and that Top is a cool program), and it's hanging at the start of programs mostly(any program), I just thought this would be so much faster and it just isn't. I thought it might still be going to the swap for memory and ignoring the fact that I have more ram now. Do I even need the swap any more?

[m3rlin]

Well of course you need your swap.

Maybe there is nothing to it, but.... how cold is your system?
I had some problems with heat, and my system hanged up running aplications, or maybe a BIOS miss configuration.

Just toughts

[XiaoKJ]

actually, I think that you do not need your swap -- you aren't even using any bit of it! you can always use dynamic swap in today's context.

anyway, I'd agree that your CPU/heat management is the culprit. The speed of a system is not improved when you increase just 1 thing. Its an overall improvement you want.

[m3rlin]

i think that you still need the swap, is your RAM needs to dump memory, he will need to dump to the swap, that will indeed result a system crash without a swap.

Like i sayd, check your CPU Heat, check your BIOS configuration, remember BIOS swadow and cache usualy gets your system slower, check if your processor is actualy running is normal speed. check de hard-drive speed, oh yah... your memory trade mark, there are some really bad memorys out there. i guess this would be the most comon reasons for your slow system.
And check any background programs that could be running.

[XiaoKJ]

you can have dynamic swap, and that will relieve the need for a swap partition. swap partitions seem to just take up too much space if you do not share them between distros.I have a swap partition only because I can share it, or else I will only have a root partition and live with it.

Anyway, when your swap partition gets filled, you will still revert to dynamic swap, so if you are not using swap and questions the need for swap, then you can always ignore the swap partititon and use your space wisely. There is absolutely no need for swap whatsoever for newer kernels, as long as you mount enough space for your system. Even when you core dump.

[rocketpcguy]

which areas does it slow and hang?

[JuiceWVU202]

There is absolutely no need for swap whatsoever for newer kernels

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that suspend to disk requires a swap partition. So I'd say especially on laptops that there is a huge need for swap even when using the newer kernels.

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

Maybe there is nothing to it, but.... how cold is your system?
I had some problems with heat, and my system hanged up running aplications, or maybe a BIOS miss configuration.

I'll look into heat, but I doubt that that could be the problem. I've actually got the space usually reserved for the spare floppy and a space from an old cd-rom that I removed wide open, so I don't think heat ventillation could be it.

The speed of a system is not improved when you increase just 1 thing. Its an overall improvement you want.

That has occured to me, that it could be that the hard drives and a few other things could be upgraded for speed as well and that would make an overall difference. If I were to do that however, I may as well get a whole new computer(I do need to get a laptop for college anyway).

check your BIOS configuration, remember BIOS swadow and cache usualy gets your system slower, check if your processor is actualy running is normal speed.

I don't know much about the BIOS and I generally don't mess with it with a few exceptions, and shadow cache? You lost me at shadow cache. :confused:

And check any background programs that could be running.

Yeah, there's a lot of junk I don't understand running yet(things like "agetty" what the heck is that?), I've still got to figure out how I saw the background process manager, I found it theother day though.

I guess I'll be keeping the swap file.

[je_fro]

I swap all the time and I have 4GB of RAM.
It's a good idea to have swap...256 MB is the max I'd go though.

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

I have 4GB of RAM.

You're made of money arn't you, je_fro? :eek:
curiosity here, how much did all that cost?

[cybertron]

Rumor has it he's still living on ramen.:D

Unless you're doing some pretty heavy computing you won't swap much with that memory, but unless you're really strapped for space it doesn't hurt to set aside at least a little just in case. I have the same amount of RAM as you and occasionally my swap partition will get used. I am surprised that you didn't notice any improvement when you upgraded though. When I went from 256 to 768 it made a very noticeable difference, especially when I ran OOo. It bogged my system down badly with 256 and with 768 it runs great. UT levels load incredibly faster too, although that may not affect you.

[psych-major]

I can't believe no one has mentioned gkrellm. Run this and see #1 how hard your processor is getting hit, and #2 what your system temps are, if your particular motherboard has supported sensors. (noted that you already ran top and the proc looks a little bored)

Also, I norticed a big difference in my setup when I turned the eyecandy way down in KDE.
Run kpersonalizer and take defaults until the third screen, which is the "eye-candy-o-meter"
Move the slider to one tick from the left, which leaves you with a background and window minimize/maximize effects.
Log out and back in to restart the Xserver (no need to reboot)
You should notice snappier performance from KDE in general, and program launch in particular. You can rerun it and include more eye-candy at your leisure until you reach your performance threshold.
I'm running a Pentium M 1.4GHz laptop with 512MB RAM and a 5400RPM hard drive and Slack w/KDE is blazingly fast on it, blowing away XP's performance on the same machine.

[Hayl]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that suspend to disk requires a swap partition. So I'd say especially on laptops that there is a huge need for swap even when using the newer kernels.

you are generally correct (with suspend2) but they are working on a filewriter which will write the suspend data to a normal file thus avoiding swap.

as for the person who said you do not need swap... yes, this is technically "true" but if you run out of ram then your box will crash... having some swap is good to have just in case and it doesn't hurt as hard disks are cheap anyway.

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

Rumor has it he's still living on ramen.

I'd live on ramen if I were rich.

When I went from 256 to 768 it made a very noticeable difference, especially when I ran OOo....UT levels load incredibly faster too, although that may not affect you.

What is OOo and UT, I've read about OOo somewhere.



I can't believe no one has mentioned gkrellm.

That is cool! The CPU seems to spike when I do something like resize the browser window, but it generally stays around a plateu one-forth the way up and sometimes hits bottom when I stop typing. Would that mean the slowness is generally contributed to by excessive graphics?

kpersonalizer

I'm doing that as we speak, but it's much better to select the features you want or don't by pressing "more options" lest you drag the bar and lose something you like.

[cybertron]

Sorry, acronym happy there for a second.:)

OOo = OpenOffice.org
UT = Unreal Tournament (2004)

[IsaacKuo]

Hold on--what are your system specs, anyway? In particular, do you have a Pentium 4 or P4 Celeron? Those have an automatic throttling feature where the CPU will automatically slow down if its temperature gets too high. However, a CPU usage monitor may NOT be aware of this throttling effect and will report the CPU usage as a fraction of its theoretical full potential (instead of reporting it has maxed out to its throttled limits).

Don't assume that just because your case temperatures are good that the CPU is receiving adequate cooling. Your CPU cooler could have a poor thermal connection with the CPU. Your CPU fan may be providing insufficient airflow. Your CPU heatsink may be covered in dust--even if it looks relatively dust free. Dust can build up to a SOLID LAYER just underneath the CPU fan over the heatsink fins. Outwardly, the dust buildup doesn't look so bad. Removing the CPU fan, however, reveals this solid layer of dust.

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

I'm on a pentium 4. I'll look into that "solid layer of dust" theory later, but given the room conditions, it wouldn't surprize me.
As for CPU throttling, if I have it, I looking for a way to turn it off. Is there an automatic shutoff if it gets too hot after I remove throttleing?

[m3rlin]

You could try to open your computer and check if the air flow is working, it could be broken.

and try to run some aplication that gets your system slow, but do this with your computer case open.

It would help if you post here, all of your specs on your computer.

Processor + speed
Hard-drive + speed
what kind of memory + speed and trademark

Be carefull with the memory, sometimes when you mix to diferent marks of Memory, it can get your pc to lose performence or even crash, and check if both work at the same speed.

performe a test on your hard drive with "hdparm"

here is my output test.
hdparm -t /dev/hda

/dev/hda:
Timing buffered disk reads: 168 MB in 3.02 seconds = 55.63 MB/sec

i have a Segate Barracuda 7200 RPM.

and check if your hard drive is using dma support

[Bubba56]

Tossing my .02 into the ring, I didn't notice if you said the "hanging + slowness" ALWAYS happens at a certain time, say you have had the system running for x amount of time -- this would lead me to believe a CPU overheating issue. OR -- is it JUST when you are doing graphic intensive, resizing windows, running Gimp or some other graphics program -- which would lead me to suspect the video card/drivers possibly.

It can never hurt to get a can of air and give the inside of the case a good spring cleaning -- just remember to hold the can upright and not tip too much sideways, you don't want the moisture from the compressed air getting in the case.

You also made no mention as to whether this is a home built or preconfigred machine (that I read anywho). It is possible that if you did build the pc, you perhaps neglected a good thermal grease (Arctic Silver is great) between cpu and heatsink?

Hope this helps a biit, if I am totally off-base, please ignore the old man in the corner.

[psych-major]

I'd live on ramen if I were rich.

I think he meant je_fro...

Would that mean the slowness is generally contributed to by excessive graphics?

Probably


I'm doing that as we speak, but it's much better to select the features you want or don't by pressing "more options" lest you drag the bar and lose something you like.

I found that when I used the slider, the options would stay, but if I used the 'more options' checkboxes, kde took the liberty of adding some back when I rebooted. Maybe a bug, maybe just me. But when I used the slider it worked better.

Out of curiousity, what filesystem are you using? I assume ReiserFS, since you're running Slack.

Also, what kind of graphics adapter do you have. If it's a supported model, you might gain some performance by getting the native graphics drivers.

[retsaw]

you are generally correct (with suspend2) but they are working on a filewriter which will write the suspend data to a normal file thus avoiding swap. Filewriter is actually working, as I'm using it on my laptop which I neglected to create a swap partition for and I didn't want to mess around making room for one.

[psych-major]

Filewriter is actually working, as I'm using it on my laptop which I neglected to create a swap partition for and I didn't want to mess around making room for one.

Interesting...

[cybertron]

just remember to hold the can upright and not tip too much sideways, you don't want the moisture from the compressed air getting in the case.
Aw, but it's so much fun watching stuff freeze when you spray it.:D

Sorry, OT I know, but I couldn't resist. :rolleyes:

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

Be carefull with the memory, sometimes when you mix to diferent marks of Memory, it can get your pc to lose performence or even crash, and check if both work at the same speed.

Dr. Memory(the salesman) warned me about that, I checked and it's ok like that.



My specs:

root@darkstar:~# hdparm -t /dev/hda

/dev/hda:
Timing buffered disk reads: 168 MB in 3.01 seconds = 55.81 MB/sec
root@darkstar:~# hdparm -t /dev/hdb

/dev/hdb:
Timing buffered disk reads: 70 MB in 3.04 seconds = 23.03 MB/sec
and I just know that the CPU is a pentium 4

when you are doing graphic intensive, resizing windows, running Gimp or some other graphics program -- which would lead me to suspect the video card/drivers possibly.



Yep, that's got to be it, but I thought more memory was what helped solve that.

It can never hurt to get a can of air and give the inside of the case a good spring cleaning -- just remember to hold the can upright and not tip too much sideways, you don't want the moisture from the compressed air getting in the case.

I use an industrial air compressor.

You also made no mention as to whether this is a home built or preconfigred machine (that I read anywho). It is possible that if you did build the pc, you perhaps neglected a good thermal grease (Arctic Silver is great) between cpu and heatsink?

It's an Acer Power SV. In other words, it's a metal box with computer chips tossed inside and expected to work.

Hope this helps a biit, if I am totally off-base, please ignore the old man in the corner.

Your bit is quite helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnscnt(Sortof)
I'd live on ramen if I were rich.


I think he meant je_fro...

I know, I meant that ramen isn't really poor food. It's good enough for anyone to eat it.

Out of curiousity, what filesystem are you using? I assume ReiserFS, since you're running Slack.

Yup, it's reiserfs.

Also, what kind of graphics adapter do you have. If it's a supported model, you might gain some performance by getting the native graphics drivers.

I havn't got the slightest of ideas, I thout they were part of the motherboard nowadays.

[psych-major]

My specs:

root@darkstar:~# hdparm -t /dev/hda

/dev/hda:
Timing buffered disk reads: 168 MB in 3.01 seconds = 55.81 MB/sec
root@darkstar:~# hdparm -t /dev/hdb

/dev/hdb:
Timing buffered disk reads: 70 MB in 3.04 seconds = 23.03 MB/sec
One drive is twice as fast as the other. You should check that out.
Run hdparm /dev/hdx against each driver and see if DMA and 32 bit support are turned on for both/either.

and I just know that the CPU is a pentium 4
cat /proc/cpuinfo



I havn't got the slightest of ideas, I thout they were part of the motherboard nowadays.
maybe, maybe not. It pays to know what your system is before you try to address what it is or isn't doing.

[psych-major]

and I just know that the CPU is a pentium 4

From the Acer support site:
AcerPowerTM SV (minitower)
A versatile system that delivers true value and performance in
an office, school or home setting.
Intel® Pentium® 4 or Celeron® processor
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
Intel® Extreme Graphics
256MB DDR SDRAM
Up to 80GB1 hard drive
CD-ROM or CD-RW drive
Four USB ports

You may notice the ...or Celeron... bit in there.

Also, according to the Acer specs (http://aac.acer.com/APP/AKC/INTERNET/AACPubli.nsf/allDocs/RWPD0B66B534EC32A2D88256D420075B487?OpenDocument#s pecs), your model uses the Intel 845GV chipset, which does not have Linux-specific video drivers. The onboard video chipset also has only 64MB of memory, which it steals from the main system memory.
To get really excellent video performance, without slowing down your other system functions, you will need to add a separate graphics adapter. However, your system also does not have an AGP slot, so you are stuck with a PCI adapter like this one (http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-145-087&depa=0).

See how much info I was able to get about your system with 90 seconds worth of googling? That's what I meant about first knowing your system before assuming that it's not performing adequately. It may actually be performing at its peak, as configured.

[Bubba56]

Quote:
when you are doing graphic intensive, resizing windows, running Gimp or some other graphics program -- which would lead me to suspect the video card/drivers possibly.





Yep, that's got to be it, but I thought more memory was what helped solve that.

Well yes and no, Yes more memory will help depending on the size and complexity of said graphics, but it also depends on the capabilities of you video card. Trying to work on the same picture in say Gimp with a newer video card (ex: nVidia 6800 w/128mb ram vs and nVidia based MX440 w/128MB ram [if that was even made] ) would show a considerable difference due to the renderring capabilities of the video card itself. This would be more apparent in gaming say than photo manipulation but still would be true to some extent. Also if your video card has a fan for the chipset you may want to blow that dust out too. Again, I hope this helps some.

BAH figures Psych would beat me to the punch with better info :P oh well I tried :)

[m3rlin]

im curious... before you upgrade the memorya, was your pc already slow?

What model is your Board?

As you should know, the speed on your system depends of factors, such processor speed, a good board with great chips, good memory, a fast hard drive... stuff like this

This problems could be happening, because your motherboard is not up your needs.

Check if your Pentium 4, is not a Celeron.

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

root@darkstar:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 15
model : 2
model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.50GHz
stepping : 9
cpu MHz : 2490.807
cache size : 128 KB
fdiv_bug : no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 2
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe cid
bogomips : 4967.62

I could've sworn that the old mandrake dist. I had on it said Pentium 4! daggnabbit!
You were right, psych.

See how much info I was able to get about your system with 90 seconds worth of googling? That's what I meant about first knowing your system before assuming that it's not performing adequately.

I thought I did know my system. I've seen that acer specs page dozens of times, just for different issues. With this in light, however, I think I have more work to do. (and for some reason "vidio card" or chipset, just wasn't what came to mind when I think "graphics", guess it will now)
And an adapter I think I'll be able to pick up at the next market pro computer show, they're stuff gets cheap.

Well yes and no, Yes more memory will help depending on the size and complexity of said graphics, but it also depends on the capabilities of you video card.

I always thought that the only people that worried about video cards were gamers. I didn't think a special card was needed just for trivial graphics on the desktop.

im curious... before you upgrade the memorya, was your pc already slow?
yes.

What model is your Board?
Pc-2100/2700 occording to the manual.

Check if your Pentium 4, is not a Celeron.

I feel dumb about it turning up celeron.

As you should know, the speed on your system depends of factors, such processor speed, a good board with great chips, good memory, a fast hard drive... stuff like this

I thought it would be a combination of several factors like that.

[psych-major]

Hey, we aim to please! :cool:

My biggest beef with the Celerons, aside from the reduced number of transistors, is the tiny L2 cache. (128K) By way of comparison, the PIII laptop I'm on right now has 256K, and most newer processors have 512K, or even 1Meg.

As for the graphics adapter, they're not just for gamers anymore. KDE and Gnome have some really neat eyecandy, most of which they turn on by default. The slow startup up of graphical apps that you're experiencing should be helped by a better video card. Then when you start an app, your one Celeron won't be trying to launch the app and render it's graphics at the same time.

Hope this helps!!!

[Omnscnt(Sortof)]

This has been a big help, Now I know what direction to go in.