Is new to the linux world Any friendly creatures here?

[epod69]

Hi all, I have been thinking about going to linux for quit a loong time now but have never made the commitment.

I would say I am a very advanced Windows user. I have been with Windows ever sense I was a little kid when my mom had the old 386 win 3.1 machine. For a while it didnt have windows and I had to learn some dos commands. Anyway, I think that because I am so use to windows I never wanted to try anything else. I also like to programming, visual basic and directx, with windows and I know that if I was to go to linux, I would have to get some new programming languages and have to learn them, which would for a while be a pain. I also have my microsoft office specialist certificate, so I would want to continue using ms office, which I heard would be a royal pain...

Anyways, now that you know a little more about me, I can get back to what I wanted to talk about. A couple years ago, I heard of a thing called Lindows, and that it could run windows programs, and at the time having windows XP, which got old VERY quickly (Windows 2000 is more solid and is the best in my eyes) , I then downloaded Lindows form irc and burned it to a cd. For some reason or another, I couldnt get it to work.

I came across the name on some news site a couple days ago that explained what happened and was now called Linspire. I went to their site and watched the little flash and became very interested in it.

Ok, now I got a few questions about Linspire.

While coming across this forum, I noticed Linspire is barely mentioned....why isnt it popular in this forum?

Also while searching through the thread, I notice that there is a LOT more OS's built on Linux... Now this is very confusing to me, why is there so many OS's?
- It would make sense to me if everyone got together and merged all the pros into one OS.

Is Linspire not the biggest out there? and if I could have everyone's opinon, do you think Linspire will become big?

And last, What are the Con's and Pro's about Linspire?

Here is a list of some concerns about moving to Linux...

HARDWARE ISSUES: The computers I am wanting to install Linspire on are pretty dated. Both use a PIII, I hope they are compatable...

SOFTWARE ISSURES: Here is a list of programs I want to run. MS Office, Games (have a lot for windows), CD Copy software (such as Alcohol 120%), Music creation software / studio software (such as Cubase), Programming languages (I heard of one like vb, its called Gambas, is this any good? Also, for creating games, what else needs to be used, I cant use direct x...), and then I would want to use Photo Editing (Photoshop) and web page development (Dream Weaver).

NETWORKING ISSUES: There would still be some windows machines in the LAN if I do go with Linspire, I hope it is possibe and not rocket science to network windows and linux machines....

well for right now, I cant think of anything else. Sorry for the long post, I just have so many questions and dont want to jump into unknown lands without any help.

Thanx for all the help guys!

[infiniphunk]

Sounds to me like you have a lot of windows apps you still want to use; have you considered sticking with windows? Not trying to sound negative or discourage you, but, um, what are your motives for wanting to switch to using linux?
If you do decide to try and give linux a go, you will find that many of the apps you use now have open-source equivalents. Many of them work better than ther windows counterparts.

There are many linux distributions out there, many are suited to defferent needs. Linspire is just one of many. Variety is a good thing.

If you do decide to try linux out, I'd suggest a few of the many liveCD's that are out there. Try out one of the lighter ones if your machine is a bit older. Slax is a nice one.

Good luck!

[epod69]

Hi, I guess the reasons for me wanting to move to linux would be that well probably the biggest reason, a lot more secure, I hate having to have all the anti-virus and adaware programs running trying to defend my computer, I also hear that the performance of linux is greater.

I heard there is a couple apps for linux which will run windows games and I also read that it was possible to run MS Office but it didnt seem too reinsurring. If I could run my games and office, I could do fine relearning other apps for linux. Also, I enjoy programming and if I can program through linux, Linspire has a program which will allow you to sell your programs though its CNR. Is there much for a programs market for Linux?

Im not too sure though anymore on if Linspire is going to go big or not seeing there is soo much other OS's that every is preferring over Linespire. Is there something wrong with Linspire?

[GavinX]

Hi this is quite some thread. To address some of your concerns: Linux is not like MS Windows where a single company builds it and decides its entire future. Linux is open, which means that the code is there for all and anyone can make his/her own flavour of Linux. This is why there so many distros, of which Linspire is just one. (Note that they are not OS, Linux is the kernel of the OS, which in turn is thousands of different software from different persons.) Linspire is NOT the "biggest" Linux distro out there. It might be one of the more well-advertised. However, it is by no means "the best". You will have to decide foryourself which is the best for you, based on your personal needs. As a distro, Linspire currently ranks number 20, in terms of "hits per day" at www.distrowatch.com.

In terms of hardware and networking issues, you should have very little problems which cannot be solved. Just about the most common set of software will work under Linux. If you acces the net using ethernet port, then you have no problems there. If you use dialup and have a connexant modem, then that too can be solved. Software modems generally do not work, and this is no fault of Linux. You will learn about this as you go along. Just check www.linmodems.org for more info.

In terms of software, just about anything that you use on Windows has a Linux alternative. For example, MS Office documents can be opened by openoffice or staroffice and these two office suites have all that you will need and more; for CD burning there is K3B; for photoedting and the like there is the GIMP and trust me it is just as powerful and even more so than photoshop.

Just read and in time you will learn and know all you need to.

If I were to recommend a distro for you, I would recommend Xandros or Mepis or Mandrake or Fedora Core 3 or SuSE.

Take care now! :)

[epod69]

Ok, so say I learned to program with linux and if I was to use linspire, or even any of the other distro's you recommended, Ill check the reviews, I would be able to customize virtually anything and everything. If I am understanding your right. Does this mean everything created with linux is open source?

[bwkaz]

No, not everything created for Linux is open-source. The vast majority of programs are, but there are some that are not. (New games, for example -- Id Software releases binaries for Linux, but they usually don't release the source until the next version of the game comes out.)

The vast majority of programs are, though, because the open source process is simply better, for most kinds of programs. (For reasoning, see "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" at http://www.catb.org/~esr/, and also the other writings by ESR that show up "under" it.) The only time it makes "sense" to go closed source is when the rent that the company can collect from the secret bits is higher than the return they would get from the massively parallel debugging that happens with open-source software. Games may be in this category (it depends on your POV).

Anyway... your hardware, being old, probably actually has a better chance of working well. Old hardware has had more time for people to reverse engineer it, so unless your hardware's specs are open, you'll be better off with older stuff. Check your distro's hardware compatibility list to be sure, though.

Most of what you've posted under software is fairly easy to do in Linux, with the possible exception of games (it depends on what games you're talking about though). In almost all cases, you'll have to get used to another program, though. Some people have been able to get Windows programs to work under Wine (and this is what Linspire supports), but it's often more of a PITA in the long run. As for programming, look into SDL (http://www.libsdl.org) as a DX replacement, and OpenGL as a D3D replacement. They're not based on COM (which is good, because basing a performance-critical library on COM is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen... but that's another thread).

There is also KOffice for an office program, if you have KDE installed.

Networking doesn't care what OS is running, as long as they both run TCP/IP. File-sharing over the network, though, is slightly more complex. Look into Samba.

[epod69]

Hey and thanx for that reply. I am starting to understand how Linux works and I think all my questions have been answered then. I have downloaded Linspire 4.5 through bittorrent so I can try it out to see if I like it. If everything goes good I will purchase the 5.0 version.

Oh, a couple other things though. I understand now why people keep the programs open source but what if you are wanting to make an income off the program, then you would almost have to close it for obvious reasons.
And the last question I have is can you still operate linux through the command line if you have Linspire installed?

IM A GRASSHOPPER!!! :D

[drummerboy195]

For starters, I am no expert, but IRC does not sound like a good choice of places to download an iso from.

That said, I will tell you my story with Linux. I originally installed it, and then didn't touch it again for a month. I didn't like it. Nothing worked, and I couldn't understand why. When I was bored, I messed around with it some more, to the point where I was doing about half my work in Linux, the other half booted into Windows. This eventually progressed to the point I am at today, where I cannot work on any platform with the same efficency I can under Linux. That said, had I simply said, "I am switching to Linux," I would have hated it, because I still would have been expecting it to look and act like Windows. However, when you try to look at it objectivley, it tends to grow on you. The power and flexibility are addicting, once you figure out how to best use it.

Moving on to the different distributions (distros), it really is a matter of personal preference, much like choice in clothing. I started out in Mandrake, which worked very well for me for quite some time, a very good beginner distro, but later moved on to other things. If I have a server I need to set up, I would go with Debian stable. A desktop system that I need _now_ gets Debian unstable, a decently powerful box gets to spend a weekend building Gentoo. Part of the beauty of having so many choices is that I can use different tools to solve different problems, rather than trying to use the same tool to play solitare and run a mission-critical server.

In the end, if you are unwilling to think outside the tools (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Office) you are using, and instead look at what you are using them to do, then you should stick with Windows. You won't get, at least in the near future, Dreamweaver for Linux. However, if you want to develop webpages, there are a large number of tools available to do so. It is important when considering a switch like this to not forget that Office is not an end unto itself, but rather a tool you use to create documents, and any tool that can create the documents you need to create is an acceptable replacement for Office.

[happybunny]

Welcome young grasshopper.

Noone said you couldn't sell your open source software.

You could also sell your services to install and maintain your open source software to a client. Who could possibly do a better job at maintaining software than the author. They could customize their open source software to a particular clients needs.

Redhat/SUSE are both open source, yet they are both for-profite companies. They offer services around their software that clients have to pay for.

Also, a Redhat rep told me once that their software was free, but they make money in volume. (that was a joke for anyone who didn't get it)

[AdamZ]

Originally posted by epod69
I understand now why people keep the programs open source but what if you are wanting to make an income off the program, then you would almost have to close it for obvious reasons.
Not necessarily. A company can still make money off support for the software. You can also sell "official" CDs in a box with documentation, etc. This is the kind of thing most commercial linux distributions do.
And the last question I have is can you still operate linux through the command line if you have Linspire installed?
Absolutely. Just look for a "terminal" program somewhere in the menus.

Edit: damn, beaten to it by two posts.

[epod69]

Wow, thanx for all the quick replys =). After reading all the posts it makes sense that you can still make money keeping the program open source.

I cant wait to join the linux community and hopefully create some great well known Linux programs!! :D

[thedreampolice]

What audio hardware do you have? As far as pro audio apps go linux is coming along very well. I do wish there was more innovation. IE Tracktion (an amazing audio app) But check out Ardour, it is a very nice multitrack platform. Also you CAN play windows games for the most part on linux but you will need this Transgaming (http://www.transgaming.com/) Just remember Linux is NOTHING like windows, and will drive you nuts for a few months (or more if you just play with it) But once you learn how things work it ROCKS. I would say start with MEPIS linux Click here (http://www.mepis.org/) its free and based on debian (as is Linspire) BTW linspire is great but I think there are better options if a person is not afraid to roll up there sleeves. But of all the Linux companies Linspire really gets it. Micheal Roberts is a cool and inovative person. Anyway hope that helps. BTW justlinux is a great place, everyone is so willing to help!

[hard candy]

Have you read "THE MANUAL" yet? It is a seldom seen publication that exists somewhere because if you ask questions on some forums, you will asked to "read the manual" (sometimes there are extra words included in that statement). Whenever you get a linux distro up and running, you can use the console/command line and type "man something" and you will get a readout of the definition and use of a program. Perhaps this is the elusive "MANUAL", I do not know. But do get a basic book or website that will let you learn some basics, like filesystem structure, use of a commandline, and how the Linux OS interacts via libraries, links, and especially the X windows system.
http://linux.about.com/od/embedded/l/blnewbie_toc.htm

[rocketpcguy]

linspire is NOT a good distribution at all, they keep asking you to pay for stuff that's free while you use your desktop. it does NOT run all windows programs.

i suggest you download/buy mandrake or (if you want to learn more about tinkering) fedora.

for directX, use openGL in linux, which was used for doom 3, chronicles of riddick, and quake 3

[DimGR]

this will be your new friend

www.distrowatch.com

[epod69]

Hey again guys, I used Norton's PartitionMagic to make a partition so I can try out Linspire 4.5. Linspire loads up good, so thats a good sign. What is very strange though is I thought that using PartitionMagic would make the partition into another drive, but it didnt...and I cant view the other partition from my computer from either OS. Also, when I created a partition, Norton recommended me to make a swapspace as well, stating that linux would run faster; is this true?

I did navagate through Linspire and through the directories that make up Linspire and Linux and I cant seem to make anything out of it, and I now see what was said before about Linux being nothing like Windows... What sucks though is it doesnt show my wireless card, it just shows the built in Ethernet, so I cant connect to the Internet through Linux. Is it possible to download drivers for use of Linux with this card? It is a D-Link DWL-G520.

About the hardware I am using for sound, right now I am using just the plain built-in sound. I am planning on getting the Creative Labs Pro (the external one) because it has MIDI ports. I havent got into sound recording just yet, I just played around with some programs, Cubase being my fav.

I am wanting to start out with Linspire because it seems to be a very good set up for starters and it seems that Linspire will be going a lot farther.

And yes I will agree 100% on that thedreampolice, justlinux.com is a great place!!

[XbaxeSysAdmin]

I would suggest mandrake linux for you . Its completely free but the support for it costs you. I havent tried it out with games but it works quite well as a distro. Another good choice would be Debian Sarge as its really easy to use and you get *almost* anything from their extensive libs using apt-get.I dont have wireless so i cant comment.

just my 2cents,

Xbaxe

edit-> Yes , you do need swap-space , i for one think its required in all distro installs.

[Syngin]

Swap drive? Yes, make it roughly twice the size of the amount of RAM you have. Its essentially like Windows virtual memory.

Put me down for a vote for Debian Sarge too. The install is a little harder but apt (Debian's package management setup) makes maintenance a breeze.

[thedreampolice]

If you want to do pro audio work, RUN from creative products. Check out midiman or echo audio. For the High end RME.

[Choozo]

epod69: Start new thread(s) for additional questions/problems - makes it easier for everybody to sort them out, instead of trying to solve every new problem you come upon in one single thread.

As for this thread topic, yes there are friendly creatures here :)

[blackbelt_jones]

I've read through this whole thread, and I don't think that anyone has mentioned dual booting. It's important to note that many, perhaps most, Linux users have a Windows partition that they occasionally boot to run certain programs. It's perfectly feasible to run Linux and Windows alternately from the same machine, and even from the same hard drive. So you don't have to give up a favorite Windows program to learn Linux.

Here's an embarrassing bit of personal info. Personally, I still haven't learned how to dual boot, and so I just keep Windows installed on a seperate hard drive, which I activate by simply and inelegantly shutting down the machine, plugging the ide cable into the hard drive, and booting. Hey, it works!

"Read the (fabulous) manual" is just a figure of speech. I'm pretty sure that there is no one manual. There are puh-lenty of linux manuals making the rounds. Some are online, others are printed on paper. Some are expensive, some are free, some are old (but still generally usefull) and others are up to date. Recently, I actually switched from a version of Linux I love (Debian) to one I am less happy with (Fedora) simply because it's currently much much easier to find an up-to-date manual for Fedora. I feel the need to fianlly read a Linux manual all the way throguh, and I'll be damned if I'll go through all that effort to read something that's four or five years old.

(The lack of an up-to-date manual for Debian has to do with its peculiar release cycle, and I expect that new manuals will be available after the next official release which is supposed to be pretty soon now.)

A great place to find reliable information is
http://www.tldp.org
the linux documentation project.

I get the feeling you're going to love Linux, because you seem like a real geek with a real sense of adventure. For an advanced user, there really is no limit to how far you can take Linux, all the way to creating your own operating system from scratch.

[retsaw]

If you really want to carry on using MS Office, you can run it using Codeweaver's CrossoverOffice, though this is commercial software (I think it costs $40), for Windows games there is Cedega which is made by Transgaming, which someone has already posted a link to. Another possiblilty for running Windows applications is to use remote desktop to connect to a Windows box running as a terminal server (2000 Pro or XP Pro can do this limited to 2 Administrator connections, XP Home can't).

For your wireless card, that uses the madwifi drivers, which some distros include and may even detect the card automatically, but for others you may need to get the drivers yourself, compile, install and set it up manually. It does work fine once set up as I have a rev. B myself.

[XbaxeSysAdmin]

Well , most GNu/Linux distros automatically ask the user if he wants to install LILO or Grub.Its become such an integral part of almost any full distrobution that some times we almost forget about it. I dont think he would have problems with Linspire if hes still going for it. Debian , Slack , mandrake all ask wheter you want to partiton the HD and set the sys up for dual booting. I presonally prefer the Debian Sarge netinst.Works like a charm.

Just my 2cents(again)

Xbaxe

[je_fro]

The more you think you know about windows, the harder you will struggle with Linux.
Forget everything you ever know about windows when you boot Linux.
And Linspire in nagware, imo.

[epod69]

Hey, just got up and its nice to see all the nice posts here!! I am glad to hear that there is friendly creatures here too =P.

Im glad to know that it pretty much is required for the swap drive now....when I did make it, Nero did say to make it 2 to 3 times my ram size (which is 512) but then said it generally should be at 500...so it is at 500 right now.

About running XP Pro through a terminal server, how well does this work. I would think that it would be hard on the memory. Would it be better to just run crossoveroffice and Cedega? And about running pro audio, I will look into the other companies that were suggested, thanx for that!

About programming, im guessing I will have to program through C.. What other languages are there to program for, I am wanting to program business apps and games. I havent really found any good programming classes (tech schools) either because all the techs that I found and read about teach pretty much just .net now =(. I will now be searching the web for instructions on downloaded drivers for my wireless card, if I need any help, I will post another thread about installing drivers. Thanx everyone sooo much for your help!!!

Edit: blackbelt_jones, about the dual booting, when I installed Linspire on the other partition, and when the computer would start up, it would load up the Linspire option screen, and at the bottom I can choose MS XP PRO. It didnt load up the first time and I figured out that I had to set the XP partition as the active one. Now when I select MS XP, it loads up just fine now. That is soo funny and old school that you have to switch the IDE cables =P

[AdamZ]

C and C++ are probably your best bets for games programming (although it really depends on what kinds of games). For business apps, you can really use anything. Since you're used to VB, python might make a good language to learn. You can also definitely learn C# and program with mono, which is an implementation of .net for linux.

[epod69]

How would I obtain C++ and C# for programming through Linux. I cant use Visual Studio....are you saying I would use mono instead of VS?

[AdamZ]

No, mono is just the program that compiles and runs the code. For an IDE, for C# there's monodevelop, and for C++, there are a bunch you can use, none of which I remember right now (I don't program in C++). I think eclipse has C++ and C# plugins as well, though I'm not sure.

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by Choozo
epod69: Start new thread(s) for additional questions/problems - makes it easier for everybody to sort them out, instead of trying to solve every new problem you come upon in one single thread.

As for this thread topic, yes there are friendly creatures here :)

Choozo has a point here, I'm pretty sure I've never seen so many questions in one thread... however, it bodes well that you're so curious. It means you're probably one of us.

[je_fro]

http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/table.shtml

[epod69]

I did make another thread about installing drivers for my wireless card, which still no one has posted back with help yet, I just have soo many questions I guess I wouldnt want to make a thread for every different subject...

[je_fro]

before you haul off and start 100 new threads make sure you do a thorough search of this site and:
http://www.google.com/linux

every issue you now face has been resolved publicly 1000 times before. just search.

[retsaw]

Originally posted by epod69
About running XP Pro through a terminal server, how well does this work. I would think that it would be hard on the memory. Would it be better to just run crossoveroffice and Cedega?

You would be running a terminal server on a machine already running XP Pro, so it wouldn't use much RAM on your linux machine, but it would use more on the machine running the terminal server as that's where the programs would actually be running. I don't know how well it's works as I only have XP Home to play with, which won't let you run a terminal server, I guess Microsoft don't want home users doing any remote administration. You'll have to make up your own mind which is the better way to do it, you certainly wouldn't want to run games with remote desktop though.

[epod69]

damn, you have 459 posts retsaw and your still a grasshopper....I wonder how many it takes to become a penguin. =)

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by Syngin
Swap drive? Yes, make it roughly twice the size of the amount of RAM you have. GAAH! :p

With the amount of RAM in most machines today, that's a COMPLETE waste of disk space. The "twice your physical RAM" rule of thumb did make sense when machines had 8MB of RAM, because most programs at the time required more than that.

Now, though, if you have sufficient RAM (1GB or so, I would guess, for most people), it is entirely possible to run with no swap at all. (I have 768MB of RAM, and I never touch the swap, even though I have 384MB of disk set aside for it.) Very few programs require tons of memory anymore.

Look at it this way -- if you need 512MB of swap when you have 256MB of RAM, that might make sense. But if you triple your RAM to 768MB, your swap usage should go down, not up. There's no reason to also triple your swap file (in fact, you can probably get rid of it, because you would then have 768MB of total virtual memory available, which is all you had available before, too) -- unless you're also increasing the memory usage of the programs you run (by running more of them, or bigger ones).

(This applies to Linux, anyway. Windows (at least 2000) will not let you run without a swapfile, because the contents of the swap file are the "authoritative" contents of memory, modulo a write-back. That's a fairly dumb design now, too, but it made sense when swap space was actually being used. I doubt that XP would run on most machines now without swap either -- it and many of the programs running on it are just huge resource hogs.)

Originally posted by epod69
Wow, thanx for all the quick replys =). After reading all the posts it makes sense that you can still make money keeping the program open source. If you want a few more ideas for ways to make money with OSS, take a look here:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/magic-cauldron/ar01s09.html

The "Give Away the Recipe, Open a Restaurant" model is what most distros do (they sell the service side of things). Some of the other models may make sense, depending on what your software looks like.

Note that you'll be effectively denied a monopoly with any of these models -- but the only problem that causes is that you won't be able to gouge your customers for shoddy crap. Which is always a good thing. ;)

[Admstng]

As for developing free software...

what looks better on a resume than you have developed somthing that hundreds, thousands, or millions of ppl use..Maybe even the person interviewing you..

[epod69]

I dont plan on working for anyone. To tell you the truth, right now I am a Real Estate Agent and part time work on business apps. I plan on going more into schooling for programming but I plan on either just working on my own or opening my own business.

[thedreampolice]

You may want to read this PDF document. This is alot of what the idea behind linux is about

Download here (http://notabug.com/2002/rms-essays.pdf)

[bwkaz]

Ehh... careful reading RMS's rhetoric. It works for people that are wired like RMS, but the majority of people (something like 9 out of 10 of them, probably more) simply aren't.

See, for example:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/shut-up-and-show-them.html

As Eric says:

None of this takes anything away from RMS's prowess as a programmer or his remarkable effectiveness at mobilizing other hackers to do good work. Emacs and gcc and the GNU code base are an absolutely essential part of our toolkit and our cultural inheritance, for which RMS deserves every praise (which is why I led a standing ovation to him at last LinuxWorld after observing that "without RMS, none of us would be here today"). But as an evangelist to the mainstream, he's been one fifteen-year long continuous disaster. I don't want to belittle his coding, because it's absolutely fantastic (and I'd be lucky to write one hundredth the amount of good, solid code that he's written).

But I don't think that "a lot" of Linux developers agree with him, either. I know that people that aren't developers just blankly stare at you when you start talking the way many of those essays start talking.

[bigrigdriver]

And, if I may insert my 2 cents worth:
Download "Rute users tutorial" and "lame" (Linux administration made easy). They are free, and full of information useful to the newbie and the guru, and all user between the two extremes.
As far as programming languages, any Linux distro will provide you with a wealth of choices: C, C++, Perl, Python, Fortran, Java, to name a few.
IDEs abound. Try them; choose those you like.
For webpage developement, I like Quanta+ (but I'm no stranger to text editing from scratch, which is also available with vim and emacs, to name two of many text editors). Don't forget Kate.
For webpage hosting, there's Apache.
Many of the options available come with syntax highlighting, which can be customised to your liking, if you take the time to find the files to edit to encorporate your preferences.
Basically, you have a world full of applications and documentation, if you take the time to search for it. There are many forums, some specific and some generalized, at which you can post questions and get answers from people who have had the same problem, and found a solution.
Welcome to the Linux world! I took the plunge 5 years ago. As of this year, I feel that I am sufficiently knowledgable that I no longer need anything from microsoft, and have removed that stuff from my computer.
Games? Other microsoft compatible apps? Check out wine, winex, and crossover office to access/use applications on a windows partition. There are also commercial (read pricey) applications. Use google to find them.
Hardware probably won't be a problem unless you propose to use something older that Intel 80386, or something so new that development hasn't caught up to it yet.
Networking Linux and windows: definitely you'll have to set up Samba.