*nixX
02-25-2005, 01:01 PM
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/25/0350219&from=rss
If that doesn't get people to switch, I don't know what will.
If that doesn't get people to switch, I don't know what will.
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Good news for Linux fans .... bad for MS
deathadder
02-25-2005, 01:29 PM
It wont bother a lot of users, in my opinion, because at the moment Linux doesn't come from PC world/ where every else. So your normal user doesn't know about Linux. Those that do 9/10 times in my experience see Linux as a hacker OS. If they actually know what a OS is ;)
[EDIT]
I know you can Linspire preinstalled at some places, but this isn't the norm, so its not going to make a huge difference right now.
[EDIT]
I know you can Linspire preinstalled at some places, but this isn't the norm, so its not going to make a huge difference right now.
hlrguy
02-25-2005, 01:32 PM
In general, nothing will cause a mass exodus until Linux is OEMed by PC manufacturers. Most will just call and answer the questions because to them Windows==Computer. Don't get me wrong, I am on of the greatest proponent of Linux there is, and this will certainly lead to more migrations, especially in the enterprise because there, every computer fix requires a call (probably a toll call, not even 1800) to big brother.
I mean, look at computers today. People put up with what, 10K virus', thousands of trojans, etc. Continual payments for firewalls, virus scanners. They have slow systems full of spyware, regular re-installs, and this has somehow become SOP to use a computer!?!!
hlrguy
Cynical, me? Like that'll ever happen!
I mean, look at computers today. People put up with what, 10K virus', thousands of trojans, etc. Continual payments for firewalls, virus scanners. They have slow systems full of spyware, regular re-installs, and this has somehow become SOP to use a computer!?!!
hlrguy
Cynical, me? Like that'll ever happen!
Parcival
02-25-2005, 01:33 PM
Let's check: MS still is installed on most desktop systems despite
[list=1]
there is an OS with a better liscencing system
there is an OS that costs significantly less
there is an OS that is significantly more secure
there is an OS that provides a lot more freedom to its user
[/list=1]
This won't be the big push either, they'll mostly put up with it. People convert one after the other. :)
[list=1]
there is an OS with a better liscencing system
there is an OS that costs significantly less
there is an OS that is significantly more secure
there is an OS that provides a lot more freedom to its user
[/list=1]
This won't be the big push either, they'll mostly put up with it. People convert one after the other. :)
The Coder
02-25-2005, 01:36 PM
This is just ridiculous. MS is just a pain in the you know what. I had heard eventually MS will not even give you a CD and you must download the whole OS online. Just like this, each time you needed to reinstall it would be like pulling teeth.
MS has some good ideas on things(this not being one of them) but they never follow through and make the technology solid. And this kind of stuff is just agrivating.
The unfortunate part is that MS is so dominant. I personally try to use my Linux machine more and more and only use windows when I have to.
MS has some good ideas on things(this not being one of them) but they never follow through and make the technology solid. And this kind of stuff is just agrivating.
The unfortunate part is that MS is so dominant. I personally try to use my Linux machine more and more and only use windows when I have to.
blackbelt_jones
02-25-2005, 02:06 PM
It's another chink in the armor. There will be more.
*nixX
02-25-2005, 02:26 PM
Even if it doesn't cause a mass turnover of users, it will in no doubt cause more people to switch.
I'm just not understanding what I'm going to have to do as a system admin. am I REALLY going to have to call MS everytime i need to rebuild a users box? Give me a break!!! Me and the other admin here will push for linux on the desktop.
I'm just not understanding what I'm going to have to do as a system admin. am I REALLY going to have to call MS everytime i need to rebuild a users box? Give me a break!!! Me and the other admin here will push for linux on the desktop.
hlrguy
02-25-2005, 02:50 PM
Have everyone record in detail the following.
The time spent repairing/installing Windows
The time spent calling to get the wizbang okydoky from big brother.
If you can got to management and say, look, over the last month, we spent 17 extra hours doing phone calls above the normal $X, we need to do something. If you average $100/IT worker overhead (salary, building, electricity, healthcare, etc...) as a conservative estimate, management may want to know that Windows is now costing them and extra 12X17K/year.
hlrguy
The time spent repairing/installing Windows
The time spent calling to get the wizbang okydoky from big brother.
If you can got to management and say, look, over the last month, we spent 17 extra hours doing phone calls above the normal $X, we need to do something. If you average $100/IT worker overhead (salary, building, electricity, healthcare, etc...) as a conservative estimate, management may want to know that Windows is now costing them and extra 12X17K/year.
hlrguy
jmhiggins
02-25-2005, 04:07 PM
This is going to suck major balls considering that reinstalling windows is a common fix in the computer industry. If I had to wait on hold for 60 minutes or something because upgrading or installing some piece of software or some spyware really ****ed up the OS I would be pissed. I dont really see this being a problem for big corporations who make image backups for their desktops though.
So how is this supposed to work? You reinstall windows with your cd and then as soon as you attach to the internet it like beeps at you about needing to call m$ to register your ****? I am sure there will be cracks for this in no time.
So when a 10,000 desktop corporation upgrades to the next version of windows are they going to have to call for each desktop and register them individually?
So how is this supposed to work? You reinstall windows with your cd and then as soon as you attach to the internet it like beeps at you about needing to call m$ to register your ****? I am sure there will be cracks for this in no time.
So when a 10,000 desktop corporation upgrades to the next version of windows are they going to have to call for each desktop and register them individually?
hlrguy
02-25-2005, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by jmhiggins
So when a 10,000 desktop corporation upgrades to the next version of windows are they going to have to call for each desktop and register them individually?
Well yes, that is the Microsoft Genuine Advantage dontcha know. Sure it sucks, but it really is to the corporations advantage because they will enjoy a richer overall experience!
Genuine Advantage (http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx?displaylang=en)
By using genuine Microsoft software, you'll enjoy greater reliability, faster access to updates and overall richer experiences.
How, as God made little green apples that was written with a straight face and posted on their web page, I will never know.
hlrguy
So when a 10,000 desktop corporation upgrades to the next version of windows are they going to have to call for each desktop and register them individually?
Well yes, that is the Microsoft Genuine Advantage dontcha know. Sure it sucks, but it really is to the corporations advantage because they will enjoy a richer overall experience!
Genuine Advantage (http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.mspx?displaylang=en)
By using genuine Microsoft software, you'll enjoy greater reliability, faster access to updates and overall richer experiences.
How, as God made little green apples that was written with a straight face and posted on their web page, I will never know.
hlrguy
jmhiggins
02-25-2005, 04:22 PM
Hehe :)
Well I guess my volume license keys are now useless. So is this the same for like installing M$ office or any similar products? Good thing I dont run windows at home anymore :) Since I gave up on hardcore PC gaming there is just no need for me to run it :)
Well I guess my volume license keys are now useless. So is this the same for like installing M$ office or any similar products? Good thing I dont run windows at home anymore :) Since I gave up on hardcore PC gaming there is just no need for me to run it :)
blackbelt_jones
02-25-2005, 05:07 PM
MS had better not leave people on hold for an hour. That would be bad.
*nixX
02-25-2005, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by jmhiggins
So is this the same for like installing M$ office or any similar products?
I haven't heard anything about that, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a switch like this on most if not all MS products.
So is this the same for like installing M$ office or any similar products?
I haven't heard anything about that, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a switch like this on most if not all MS products.
ev8r
02-25-2005, 05:31 PM
gee this measure will probably account for about 0.1% of all pirate xp copies..lets hope there isnt a crack out there that disables registration..oops too late....
TheFreak
02-25-2005, 05:48 PM
why bother registering when the corperate edition can be pirated. Really, IMO the more micro$oft tries to stop piracy the more the people will try to pirate its software. These countermeasures just make windows more of a pain rather than an effective way to stop piracy.
jailbreaker
02-25-2005, 05:59 PM
well currently you guys say it's about 1hr on hold...well when this happens wont the wait belonger since there are going to be A LOT more people calling in?
my guess is wait times well be 2-3hr now. Oh well hopefully people will switch to Mac or Linux :)
/me looks at new macs :D
my guess is wait times well be 2-3hr now. Oh well hopefully people will switch to Mac or Linux :)
/me looks at new macs :D
timothykaine
02-25-2005, 06:15 PM
It is definitely a good way to stop, or slow, piracy of Windows. I believe it will make a small percentage switch (just as the XP activation issue did).
But in the end, pirates will just distribute cracked updates instead of cracked copies of Windows (since MS said they would not use the same activation scheme again).
But in the end, pirates will just distribute cracked updates instead of cracked copies of Windows (since MS said they would not use the same activation scheme again).
*nixX
02-25-2005, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by timothykaine
It is definitely a good way to stop, or slow, piracy of Windows. I believe it will make a small percentage switch (just as the XP activation issue did).
But in the end, pirates will just distribute cracked updates instead of cracked copies of Windows (since MS said they would not use the same activation scheme again).
Yes, of course cracks are going to come of this but you have to keep in mind is the overhead for corporations. Sure a home user will crack the OS and use it if they know how, but lets see you do that in that corporate world.
Are you going to explain to your boss that you are going to have to apply updates to all the computers on the network from cracked versions instead of using the Auto Update feature, I don't think so.
So IMO the move will be taken alot more seriously from corporate vantage points.
It is definitely a good way to stop, or slow, piracy of Windows. I believe it will make a small percentage switch (just as the XP activation issue did).
But in the end, pirates will just distribute cracked updates instead of cracked copies of Windows (since MS said they would not use the same activation scheme again).
Yes, of course cracks are going to come of this but you have to keep in mind is the overhead for corporations. Sure a home user will crack the OS and use it if they know how, but lets see you do that in that corporate world.
Are you going to explain to your boss that you are going to have to apply updates to all the computers on the network from cracked versions instead of using the Auto Update feature, I don't think so.
So IMO the move will be taken alot more seriously from corporate vantage points.
timothykaine
02-25-2005, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by *nixX
Yes, of course cracks are going to come of this but you have to keep in mind is the overhead for corporations. Sure a home user will crack the OS and use it if they know how, but lets see you do that in that corporate world.
Are you going to explain to your boss that you are going to have to apply updates to all the computers on the network from cracked versions instead of using the Auto Update feature, I don't think so.
So IMO the move will be taken alot more seriously from corporate vantage points.
Businesses are already using legal copies, and are already using this method anyways. It doesnt make it cost any more for people already using legal copies. Wheres the change?
I think the only change we will see is home users with pirated copies switching. Any switching from MS to Linux in the business world will likely continue at the same rate it is now, because I dont think this actually affects them.
Yes, of course cracks are going to come of this but you have to keep in mind is the overhead for corporations. Sure a home user will crack the OS and use it if they know how, but lets see you do that in that corporate world.
Are you going to explain to your boss that you are going to have to apply updates to all the computers on the network from cracked versions instead of using the Auto Update feature, I don't think so.
So IMO the move will be taken alot more seriously from corporate vantage points.
Businesses are already using legal copies, and are already using this method anyways. It doesnt make it cost any more for people already using legal copies. Wheres the change?
I think the only change we will see is home users with pirated copies switching. Any switching from MS to Linux in the business world will likely continue at the same rate it is now, because I dont think this actually affects them.
hlrguy
02-25-2005, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by timothykaine
Wheres the change?
The software cost is the same, the maintenance time is increased and made more complicated while the IT folks track down every piece of documentation to 'recertify' the machine. Time=Money for companies.
Time will tell if the overhead is trivial, or massive. You can be sure that MSs priorities were 1) Make it as comprehensively obtrusive as possible, followed distantly by 2) Make it easy to 'recertify' the computer.
hlrguy
Wheres the change?
The software cost is the same, the maintenance time is increased and made more complicated while the IT folks track down every piece of documentation to 'recertify' the machine. Time=Money for companies.
Time will tell if the overhead is trivial, or massive. You can be sure that MSs priorities were 1) Make it as comprehensively obtrusive as possible, followed distantly by 2) Make it easy to 'recertify' the computer.
hlrguy
blackbelt_jones
02-25-2005, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by jailbreaker
well currently you guys say it's about 1hr on hold...well when this happens wont the wait belonger since there are going to be A LOT more people calling in?
my guess is wait times well be 2-3hr now. Oh well hopefully people will switch to Mac or Linux :)
/me looks at new macs :D
I think those are speculation. We'll see. One thing's certain, if there was no Linux, Microsoft wouldn't care about how long they kept people on hold, but now they are.
well currently you guys say it's about 1hr on hold...well when this happens wont the wait belonger since there are going to be A LOT more people calling in?
my guess is wait times well be 2-3hr now. Oh well hopefully people will switch to Mac or Linux :)
/me looks at new macs :D
I think those are speculation. We'll see. One thing's certain, if there was no Linux, Microsoft wouldn't care about how long they kept people on hold, but now they are.
*nixX
02-25-2005, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by hlrguy
The software cost is the same, the maintenance time is increased and made more complicated while the IT folks track down every piece of documentation to 'recertify' the machine. Time=Money for companies.
hlrguy
Exactly, and explainging that to people who just expect everything to "just work" time is 100% money.
When you need to wipe a computer because it's so infected with spyware from previous users for the "new guy" and cant produce results quickly ... it's your head on the chopping block.
I'm drunk ... if this didn't make sense forgive me. :p
The software cost is the same, the maintenance time is increased and made more complicated while the IT folks track down every piece of documentation to 'recertify' the machine. Time=Money for companies.
hlrguy
Exactly, and explainging that to people who just expect everything to "just work" time is 100% money.
When you need to wipe a computer because it's so infected with spyware from previous users for the "new guy" and cant produce results quickly ... it's your head on the chopping block.
I'm drunk ... if this didn't make sense forgive me. :p
chatins
02-25-2005, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by *nixX
Exactly, and explainging that to people who just expect everything to "just work" time is 100% money.
When you need to wipe a computer because it's so infected with spyware from previous users for the "new guy" and cant produce results quickly ... it's your head on the chopping block.
I'm drunk ... if this didn't make sense forgive me. :p
That makes perfect sense. But things are changing. I tell "people" if you aren't running open source kernels, count on things not working. In fact, assume they will break almost immediately.
:)
Exactly, and explainging that to people who just expect everything to "just work" time is 100% money.
When you need to wipe a computer because it's so infected with spyware from previous users for the "new guy" and cant produce results quickly ... it's your head on the chopping block.
I'm drunk ... if this didn't make sense forgive me. :p
That makes perfect sense. But things are changing. I tell "people" if you aren't running open source kernels, count on things not working. In fact, assume they will break almost immediately.
:)
NecroLin
02-25-2005, 11:22 PM
Here's the thing. For me Microsoft rocks. It's the best!!! I'm working as a computer technician that's called in to fix peoples computers. 99.8% of my customers have computers that are SOOOOO mashed by viruses/spyware/malware, what not that the computers are barely useable at best. For me Microsoft = $45/hr fixing someones computer. Here's the best part. No matter how well you protect the computer, patch it, etc these people will still infect their computers with dumb programs like Kazaa in a mater of months (tops). Yeah for me. If everyone switched over to Linux I would be out of a job:( .
Besides the truth is so funny. 75%, at least, of my customers can barely turn a computer on. They tell me that they have Windows XP, I get there they have Windows 2k or ME. You'de be surprised to know how few people know how to really use a computer. They are completly lost in MS Windows & that's all they know. How lost would they be in Linux???
For anyone that actually knows how to use a computer... Linux is the way. I've converted my wife, dad, mom, sis.... etc, but most of the people that pay my bills wouldn't know what to do with Linux. Just my humble, really drunk, linux loving opinion. :D
Besides the truth is so funny. 75%, at least, of my customers can barely turn a computer on. They tell me that they have Windows XP, I get there they have Windows 2k or ME. You'de be surprised to know how few people know how to really use a computer. They are completly lost in MS Windows & that's all they know. How lost would they be in Linux???
For anyone that actually knows how to use a computer... Linux is the way. I've converted my wife, dad, mom, sis.... etc, but most of the people that pay my bills wouldn't know what to do with Linux. Just my humble, really drunk, linux loving opinion. :D
timothykaine
02-26-2005, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by NecroLin
Here's the thing. For me Microsoft rocks. It's the best!!! I'm working as a computer technician that's called in to fix peoples computers. 99.8% of my customers have computers that are SOOOOO mashed by viruses/spyware/malware, what not that the computers are barely useable at best. For me Microsoft = $45/hr fixing someones computer. Here's the best part. No matter how well you protect the computer, patch it, etc these people will still infect their computers with dumb programs like Kazaa in a mater of months (tops). Yeah for me. If everyone switched over to Microsoft I would be out of a job:( .
Besides the truth is so funny. 75%, at least, of my customers can barely turn a computer on. They tell me that they have Windows XP, I get there they have Windows 2k or ME. You'de be surprised to know how few people know how to really use a computer. They are completly lost in MS Windows & that's all they know. How lost would they be in Linux???
For anyone that actually knows how to use a computer... Linux is the way. I've converted my wife, dad, mom, sis.... etc, but most of the people that pay my bills wouldn't know what to do with Linux. Just my humble, really drunk, linux loving opinion. :D
Couldnt have said it better myself, and Im probably drunker than you so thanks for helping out. :D
Here's the thing. For me Microsoft rocks. It's the best!!! I'm working as a computer technician that's called in to fix peoples computers. 99.8% of my customers have computers that are SOOOOO mashed by viruses/spyware/malware, what not that the computers are barely useable at best. For me Microsoft = $45/hr fixing someones computer. Here's the best part. No matter how well you protect the computer, patch it, etc these people will still infect their computers with dumb programs like Kazaa in a mater of months (tops). Yeah for me. If everyone switched over to Microsoft I would be out of a job:( .
Besides the truth is so funny. 75%, at least, of my customers can barely turn a computer on. They tell me that they have Windows XP, I get there they have Windows 2k or ME. You'de be surprised to know how few people know how to really use a computer. They are completly lost in MS Windows & that's all they know. How lost would they be in Linux???
For anyone that actually knows how to use a computer... Linux is the way. I've converted my wife, dad, mom, sis.... etc, but most of the people that pay my bills wouldn't know what to do with Linux. Just my humble, really drunk, linux loving opinion. :D
Couldnt have said it better myself, and Im probably drunker than you so thanks for helping out. :D
The Coder
02-26-2005, 12:45 AM
MS will need to beef up their phone network/servers to handle all the calls !
Parcival
02-27-2005, 07:09 AM
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050227 :D
*nixX
02-27-2005, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Parcival
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050227 :D
:D LOL
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050227 :D
:D LOL
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