[root@localhost /root]# rpm -V telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm
Here is a typical example of why Linux is still not ready for prime time.
I am trying to install the telnet server.
I have downloaded the rpm from RedHat, As A side note, do you think they could make navigating the ftp tree any more terse, Is there some reason for having two character directory names, is disk space really that much of a premium ?
I had to guess several times, since I was simply unable to decide what it was that the directory structure was desperately trying to hide from me
Now I know enough that I need to run rpm agains this file, so I give it a go with these results. What kind of crap program is this, first it tells me it is not installed, then that it is.
[root@localhost /root]# rpm -V telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm
package telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm is not installed
[root@localhost /root]# rpm -q telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm
package telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm is not installed
[root@localhost /root]# rpm -i telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm
package telnet-server-0.17-20 is already installed
phazeman
11-08-2001, 01:16 PM
I think you should try the :
'urpmi telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm' from the directory where the file located, or just give it the full path ...
I had the same problem with the RPM in Mandrake 8.1 and the XINE, but then, someone from the IRC told me to do it
Anyway, there is the 'rpmi' also , but i prefer the urpmi - faster,better, and working (prooved)
bdg1983
11-08-2001, 05:33 PM
That's right, blame your lack of knowledge on Linux instead of yourself. If you had bothered to read the rpm documentation (man rpm) or searched on the web, you would find out how to use rpm correctly.
rpm -V telnet-server
rpm -q telnet-server
rpm -i telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm
bdg1983
11-08-2001, 05:39 PM
No competent developers for Linux? :rolleyes:
Let's see you do better.
I would like a nice gui Netware Client that supports Netware 5.1 with multiple server logons. Let me know when it's ready.
Stick with Microsoft. That's where the 'real' programmers are.
After all... Microsoft is for idiots. I believe YOU do fall into that category.
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: Logon Name Gone ]
Vagrant
11-08-2001, 05:50 PM
"thats why linux isnt ready for prime time" .. heh ok, maybe you should pass the bit of knowledge on to some multi-billion dollar companies .. since you are obviously and expert on the subject .. yep .. cant install software, so linux is crap .. heh .. eh thats just ridiculous really ..
*vagrant
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 06:14 AM
>>I think you should try the :'urpmi telnet-server-0.17-20.i386.rpm' ....
I don't have urpmi anywhere on my box.
>>Anyway, there is the 'rpmi' also ....
Don't have this one either
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 06:52 AM
>> That's right, blame your lack of knowledge on Linux instead of yourself.
Yes, forgive me, I just want to install some trivial software, I forgot I was in the world of Linux where I am suppose to hole up for four weeks reading every bit of documentation I can find that is remotely related to the app in question, looking for that one tiny scrap of information which will allow me to do this.
>> If you had bothered to read the rpm documentation (man rpm) or searched on the web, you would find out how to use rpm correctly.
Silly me, why didn't I think of that, hmm. lets looks at the man command line help for rpm:
[root@localhost /]# rpm --?
--?: unknown option
[root@localhost /]# rpm -?
-?: unknown option
Oh, of course, rpm doesn't use the 'standard' question mark for help scheme. I'll just wade through the man page
Let's look at the man page then:
QUERY OPTIONS
The general form of an rpm query command is
rpm -q [query-options]
hmm.... that's weird, where do I specify the package name ??
Maybe I did miss something in the introductory paragraphs, let's look at them again:
NAME
rpm - Red Hat Package Manager
SYNOPSIS
rpm [options]
DESCRIPTION
rpm is a powerful package manager,.....
Querying:
rpm [--query] [queryoptions]
rpm [--querytags]
Gee, that's really strange, surely I must provide the name of the rpm package that I want rpm to use, but oddly this doesn't seem to be the case, instead I just provide [queryoptions].
let's read the QUERY OPTIONS section a little more carefully.
QUERY OPTIONS
The general form of an rpm query command is
rpm -q [query-options]
You may specify the format that package information should be printed in. To do this, you use the [--queryformat|-qf] option, followed by the format string.
Query formats are modifed versions of the standard printf(3) formatting. The format is made up of static strings (which may include standard C character escapes for newlines, tabs, and other special characters) and printf(3) type formatters. As rpm already knows the type to print, the type specifier must be omitted however, and replaced by the name of the header tag to be printed, enclosed by {} characters. The RPMTAG_ portion of the tag name may be omitted.
Hey, this is great, now I nead to go and read a 'C' programming language book to discover the formatting options for printf(3)
Yep, really good stuff !!!
All I want to do is a default installation of the telnet demon. this should be as simple as getting the version I want, and running some kind of setup script and answering a few simple questions like installation path, maybe some security feature stuff, and anything specific to that version of telnet, but NO, this is Linux, I get to write a 'C' program just to install another program !
Keyser Soze
11-12-2001, 06:57 AM
uhhhh, you could always try.... man rpm
course the most basic of commands is of little use to the most basic of intelligence. After all, if reading a few lines is beyond your comprehension, you might have some worse problems than linux programming.
Keyser Soze
11-12-2001, 07:02 AM
go to the installation cd, go into the rpms and type
rpm -ivh telnet-ser
hit the tab key and let it autocomplete it for you and...nevermind, go back to windows, you're going to be a source of irritation I can tell already.
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 07:13 AM
>>go to the installation cd, go into the rpms and type
rpm -ivh telnet-ser
.....
Hey, if you are so damned clever, why didn't you notice that I had downloaded the telnet rpm from RedHat, I don't have it on any source CD.
If I do as you suggest against the rpm file version that I have downloaded I get this.
Cool, I have the man pages, and a diff file, but no telnetd.
Keyser Soze
11-12-2001, 07:21 AM
have you tried to telnet in to your box yet?
try: telnet localhost
My guess is that it is probably already working for you.
It is unfortunate that there is already friction among us, but you should refrain from casting stabs at the os and just ask us the question you need answered before you get pissed and start alienating people.
And the location does not matter regarding the rpm, I would assume you could find it. If it is still not there, uninstall the telnet-server rpm with:
rpm -e telnet-server
and then reinstall it with rpm -ivh (the h just gives you some feedback. you could also do a rpm -fivh and force it to overwrite the existing installation, but I would not reccommend it.
[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: Keyser Soze ]
Slackmonster
11-12-2001, 07:27 AM
If you're going to come here talking smack, then expect to get smacked! :p
speck
11-12-2001, 07:41 AM
He must be a troll. He's too clueless(no explanation needed) and too arrogant(opinion that an OS "isn't ready for prime time" based on his lack of knowledge about the syntax for one command.)
Speck
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 07:45 AM
>>have you tried to telnet in to your box yet?
try: telnet localhost
An interesting question indeed, this is why I got started on this whole issue.
I tried this previously, with the following results
[root@localhost /root]# telnet localhost
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
So I thought to myself 'Self,' I said, ' I wonder if telnetd is not yet installed.'
Since I couldn't find it using 'find', I presume I have not yet installed it. But then just for completeness I did this
[root@localhost /root]# man telnetd
No manual entry for telnetd
Well, if I don't have the man pages, and can't find the binary, I guess I don't have it installed. so I downloaded it.
Now that I appearantly have it installed (at least rpm thinks it is) why can't I find the damned thing.
Isn't there any way to query the rpm database and discover where the f&*(ing thing got installed to.
phazeman
11-12-2001, 07:57 AM
Hi All
I think it's enough to scream one on eachother. I think, that the guy isn't so stupid, he just a newbie (like me) and trying to do something , but without any success. He is a little bit ungree with the situation, so here are som not nice words coming ... Anyway, Some_Dumb_Guy you have to speak clear in the forum (let me remind that i 'm not a system moderator). All of us here have some problems, and we come here to try to solve them, but nowone complains on the Linux - if you can't find out something about something, it doesn't mean that you stupid, or the OS is, it just mean that you've not searched good anough for the answer ! Believe me, i had the same problems few weeks ago (with the XINE), i cryed near the monitor, then i took myself in hands, and went back to the GOOGLE, typed the right question, and voilla !!
Ok, for your question, i asked you if you are using the Linux Mandrake 8.0/1, becouse the URPMI is there (and not in RedHat). If you are trying to use the RedHat (which i don't like my self - but see yourself, i never told that it's not ready for massive usage) i'll advice you to try the Mandrake, becouse for today, it's the most 'NEWBIEZED' Linux system. 'NEWBIEZED' isn't mean that it's not good for professionals, it means, that the GUI is much more progressive (the last KDE), and everything is easy to setup. That doesn't mean you don't have to configure things by yourself - but this is the purpose of the whole OS - configurability - each one configure it for his needs. Anyway, if you need someone to help you with things, you can email me to
phazeman@netvision.net.il
bdg1983
11-12-2001, 10:30 AM
Your 5th post on a help forum and your basically ****ting on a good portion of the community will not gain you any friends nor support here on this forum.The Linux community has some of the most talented programmers around and do it with their free time on top of that...you ungratefull little punk !!
an attack on the Kings men is like an attack on the King himself
Don't expect any help from me !!
Willy
[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: Willy ]
Strike
11-12-2001, 10:49 AM
First of all, just because something is installed doesn't mean it is running. Learn about xinetd.
Secondly, just because the man page is tough to read doesn't mean that there is no other documentation out there.
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 10:59 AM
>>Your 5th post on a help forum and your basically ****ting on a good portion of the community will not gain you any friends nor support here on this forum.The Linux community has some of the most talented programmers around and do it with their free time on top of that...you ungratefull little punk !!
I have reviewed my posts, and feel perfectly satisfied that my criticisms are justified.
As for your assertion that The Linux community has some of the most talented programmers around, well, they might be good at the obfuscated code competition, or thinking up cute names like GNU and thinking how clever they are for the recursion, or writing such user friendly tools as vi, but if they were any really that good, they would realise that unless they make their applicaitons a little easier to use, and provide a bit better documentation, they are wasting their time.
>>an attack on the Kings men is like an attack on the King himself
Ah, yes, I remember that line from when I read about this quote 'My Country right or wrong, My Country; if it is right, let it be right, if it is wrong, help it be right'
My complaint about Linux has been the same since the days of RedHat 5.0. Developers providing too many difficult to understand options with very little documentation all hiding behind the catch all phrase: ' Well, you can always help with the documentation'.
What a stupid idea, how can I help with the documentaton, when I can't figure out how damned app works myself.
>>Don't expect any help from me !!
I don't expect any help from you. I don't expect any help.
I am in the unfortunate position of having to support a few Linux boxes and can tell you that I spend far more time per issue on them than I do on any Windows version since WIN 3.11.
Stability, yes, Linux has it, but that's mostly because it's so damned hard to get it to do anything other than boot, we only run a very few server based applications on our Linux boxes. On the few occasions I have run client apps, they have behaved miserably, and yes, some even caused kernel panics which required a reboot to correct.
bdg1983
11-12-2001, 12:55 PM
I am in the unfortunate position of having to support a few Linux boxes and can tell you that I spend far more time per issue on them than I do on any Windows version since WIN 3.11.
No I think your company is in the unfortunate position to have an employee who won't take the time to do any research and make an effort to resolve issues to make a chosen network component work !!
My advise re-install Win 3.1 you'll be much happier !!
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 01:12 PM
>>No I think your company is in the unfortunate position to have an employee who won't take the time to do any research and make an effort to resolve issues to make a chosen network component work !!
What are you on, what do you think I was trying to do here. I was hoping one of you 'experts' might be able to shed some light on my situation with telnet. Instead, I discover I am actually more of an expert than most, although I admit I am stumped by this one.
>>My advise re-install Win 3.1 you'll be much happier !!
Hmm. good idea, unfortunately some prick wrote a few buggy apps which will only run under Linux (note: they won't run under Solaris, or SystemV without code changes, which nobody has the time or inclination to perform). These apps crash hourly (did I mention the guy who wrote them was a major Linux zealot, alot like you I guess) so we have these keepalive scripts running which are constantly re-starting them. We have tried to debug the processes, but the code is such a mess that even some of our more experienced 'C' programmers say it will take weeks to figure out, which is not good use of time, since we can re-write them in that time. So until my company can get the time and money to have them re-written for Windows, we're stuck supporting more crappy *nix apps. Since we often need to remotely administer these app, we're trying to get telnet server to work, but, alas, even something as simple as that is a chore under Linux.
Some Dumb Guy
11-12-2001, 01:13 PM
>>No I think your company is in the unfortunate position to have an employee who won't take the time to do any research and make an effort to resolve issues to make a chosen network component work !!
What are you on, what do you think I was trying to do here. I was hoping one of you 'experts' might be able to shed some light on my situation with telnet. Instead, I discover I am actually more of an expert than most, although I admit I am stumped by this one.
>>My advise re-install Win 3.1 you'll be much happier !!
Hmm. good idea, unfortunately some prick wrote a few buggy apps which will only run under Linux (note: they won't run under Solaris, or SystemV without code changes, which nobody has the time or inclination to perform). These apps crash hourly (did I mention the guy who wrote them was a major Linux zealot, alot like you I guess) so we have these keepalive scripts running which are constantly re-starting them. We have tried to debug the processes, but the code is such a mess that even some of our more experienced 'C' programmers say it will take weeks to figure out, which is not good use of time, since we can re-write them in that time. So until my company can get the time and money to have them re-written for Windows, we're stuck supporting more crappy *nix apps. Since we often need to remotely administer these app, we're trying to get telnet server to work, but, alas, even something as simple as that is a chore under Linux.
infotech
11-12-2001, 01:42 PM
I forgot I was in the world of Linux where I am suppose to hole up for four weeks reading every bit of documentation I can find that is remotely related to the app in question, looking for that one tiny scrap of information which will allow me to do this.
LMAO, I know the feeling.
paulster
11-12-2001, 02:19 PM
Some Dumb Guy:
Here are some commands that may of use. The XXX stands for what your after.
As for your gripe, well, I have to agree with you, Linux has a great deal of problems when it comes to installation of software either by installer or source, dependency's, backward's compatability and help files.
That's the price you pay for freedom where anyone can do what they want with little or no standards to maintain uniformity. Its a modular existance, you either like or you don't. In your case it's a necessety so in the mean time try treading carefully, you need these people :)
[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: paulster ]
bdg1983
11-12-2001, 03:20 PM
I was hoping one of you 'experts' might be able to shed some light on my situation with telnet
Well with the title of your heading for this thread and your acknowlegment in previous posts that you do not want help from me nor expect help from anyone else brings me to the question...
Why are you wasting bandwidth here ?
bdg1983
11-12-2001, 05:11 PM
Do you really think that everyone here is a 'expert' and just waiting to answer YOUR questions? Not the case. We are just newbies as yourself with some having a bit more experience than others.
Your first complaints were unfounded. If you had read the rpm documentation/manpages, you would have found the exact commands to use to install/query/uninstall rpm packages as I pointed out earlier. And then you blamed the Linux developers for your own mistakes.
Just remember we are all newbies trying to help other newbies.
scanez
11-12-2001, 05:47 PM
Before you come here and make such a stupid post blaming everybody and everything else because you can't get your telnet server running, I suggest you actually learn about what you are doing. No executable named telnetd? THAT's BECAUSE THERE IS NONE. IF you would have learned about what you are doing you would have learned that the telnet server is controlled by xinetd. So, go to your /etc/xinetd.d directory and enable telnet there and then restart xinetd, and don't come back *****ing about something you can't get to work unless you have actually read up on it and know more about it.
Trying to install an rpm with "rpm -V" should have tipped us off as to your unwillingness to try to actually learn about what you are doing.
SC
[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: scanez ]
knute
11-12-2001, 06:39 PM
Ummm.... First of all, if you are going to log into yourself, you need to have the loopback device running. (For those that don't know what I'm talking about it is a dummy device that is used so that the network protocols can be directed somewhere to other than a real communication device!)
Anyway, with out the loopback device working, you won't be able to telnet into yourself.
To start it try 'ifconfig lo up' and see if you can telnet into yourself at that point.
Another reason for a telnet connection being rejected is that there is nothing listening on that port, so if nothing is listening, well, it will be refused. I'm assuming that telnetd is listening on the default port of 23 or something, but there should be a config file in /etc somewhere to make sure... That one may need inetd.conf... It's something to check... Been awhile since I've fooled with telnetd.
Hey, if you are looking for a linux admin, I'll take the job! :D
sarah31
11-12-2001, 07:12 PM
True the title of this thread is hostile and does provoke devoted Linux users to be very defensive, but this individual has right to complain. It appears to me that he has done more to understand his problem than many newbies would. He has made no qualms about the fact that he does not really prefer to use Linux, which is another right he has.
To me Some Dumb Guy is not all that Dumb. In any sort of business, these forums included, there always comes a time when you will have to face an angry customer. If you avoid getting into a debate and actually help smooth out the problem chances are that you will have a repeat customer.
To often I see newbies get frustrated and formulate their question in the form of insults. This is not the best way to approach the problem, sure, but answering in a manner that insults the person is not a very good way to approach things either.
Linux is just an OS. There is no doubt that it can be very hard to learn. Many like myself really do like working with it but it can be extremely frustrating. It may even provoke hostility which can then become manifest in threads such as this. Telling Some Dumb Guy that he is a loser and should juist stick with Windows or some other OS shows me that there are many Linux people that are not ready to make Linux any thing more than a "geeks paradise". Personal attacks such as Some Dumb Guy's are valuable criticism. If Linux wants a higher profile SomeDumb Guy's complaints about vague documentation or lack of documentation should be something that should be looked at.
I have had many problems getting Linux set just the way I want,too. Sometimes I have found solutions other times I have not.Sometimes, since I have very little experience with compiling and the like, I find it very hard to understand the documentation. I usually just come here and explain the situation and my question is either answered or not. It would be nice to get some more newbie oriented documentation. I see nothing wrong with dumbing-down some of the explanations, but sometimes this is met with hostility by the Linux community. Why I am not sure. I am at a very low level of understanding of the complex world of code and programming that I really appreciate those indidviduals that have taken time and had the patience to explain things step by step. Soon what was once difficult becomes basic knowledge. It is a long hard trail and all of you should remember that and ignore the hostility in some of the questions and find out what the root of the problem is and walk us through it. You may find a friend and allie in that person later.
bdg1983
11-12-2001, 07:36 PM
Sarah,
I have to disagree with parts of your comments. I am here as an IT student to learn and educate myself on a different OS than I am probably going to use when I actually get a job (Win 2k) when I graduate in Jan.
I am not a Linux expert at all but I could have offered him some information to make his life easier. Dummy seemed to be more interested in taking for granted peoples efforts to help him by making broad generalization about peoples competency.
If he had only posted a article asking for help his problem more than likely it would have been solved by now...instead we have 20+ posts of BS. Nothing was resolved by Dummy making such a post and I am sure that anybody who could have offered assistance to Dummy would have...he would be on his merry way to a Christmas bonus.
Nobody owes anybody anything else on these forums except their gratitude and respect.
Dummy has shown only contempt...regardless of his knowledge.
Willy
sarah31
11-12-2001, 07:49 PM
Point taken. There is no substitute for good manners.
bdg1983
11-12-2001, 09:09 PM
;)
That's all
Slackmonster
11-12-2001, 11:19 PM
Typical windblows user. If it can't be done by a couple of mouse clicks through a wizard it must be bad. :p
kuber
11-12-2001, 11:34 PM
Is it just me or are there still no competent critics of Linux?
camelrider
11-13-2001, 04:06 PM
"Connection refused"
Is this a firewall issue?
;)
justlinux.com
Copyright Internet.com Inc. All Rights Reserved.