A computer "just for writing"

[blackbelt_jones]

Now that I've got finally a kickass Linux Box with a 3.0 Ghz Pentium IV, multithreading, a gig of RAM, a DSL connection, yadda yadda yadda, I find that as much as I love having this stuff, most of it gets in the way of what I'm supposed to be doing with my computer, which is writing my book.

I can't be the first writer who ever decided that he needed a second computer just for writing. You don't have to have ADHD to find the internet to be a huge distraction. I bet I can get twice as much done with an old slow box that stays offline.

And so, I'm looking at fixing up my old "PC OF CRAP" for a new life. It's got 233 mHz and 150 MB RAM, it's going to be offline all the time, and it may be operating with a 4.5 GB hard drive, which is now considered tiny.

So what distro? A system like Fedora could blot out that whole hard drive without any effort. I'm looking for something small, simple, and stable, which can be installed entirely off of CDs. At first, I thought of Debian Woody, but since I'm not going to be running a lot of packages, I don't really see the need for apt-- and besides, Woody is kind of... you know, old. It doesn't matter a jot, but as long as it's free, I'd like to stay current. So now I'm leaning toward Slackware 10.

No doubt either distro will be just fine, so it isn't like this is a big important decision. I just thought it might be fun and edifying to discuss. Anybody? :)

[eskiled]

Lol im no physcologist nor did you ask for a physcoanalysis, but seams to me this is just another distraction, keeping you from your book. Anyways...
I say slackware. Although, you could do it in any distro with a light WM like fluxbox, or
<strikeout> even just with vim in the console.<strikeout><!--lol in response to blackbelt's next post-->


Goodluck with your book,
eskiled



Ps. How do you spell physcologist?

<edit>90TH POST :D</edit>

<edit2> Now that I think about it, you could easily load DSL into ram (you can do that right:confused:), and write you're book on a floppy. No setup required, and it wouldn't be too slow, either.</edit2>

[psi42]

Slackware...

[bryan.6]

psychologist...

[EnigmaOne]

Drop SimplyMepis in there and see how it handles the machine.
It does have everything you neet to get going right away, and the install is as long as a heartbeat or two.

I have it on a couple P2, 350MHz boxes with 6GB HDDs and it seems to feel right at home.

[blackbelt_jones]

We come upon our hero, blackbelt_jones, sitting at his old low-grade computer, deep in thought. He is holding a two-pound ball-peen hammer. As he considers the object in his hands, he seems conflicted. Finally, our hero speaks:

:confused:

"Let's see... do I beat myself over the head with this ball-peen hammer... or do I write my entire book on vim? I just can't seem to decide. Oh well. At least I don't have that damned internet to distract me anymore."

[timothykaine]

A 233mhz what? If its a P2 try putting Yoper on there. Easy install and get the top speed out of it. If not, I guess id go with Gentoo since you wont be installing much after the initial install. One long compile to get some good speed out of it sounds reasonable. Though Im also partial to Debian, so failing that, Id say Ubuntu.

[blackbelt_jones]

"Let's see... Do I beat myself over the head with this ball-peen hammer, or do I install Gentoo?"

(Sorry, I don't mean to be disparaging about anyone's suggestion. Just trying to be funny.);)

[EnigmaOne]

Naw....hammer isn't big enough. Drag out a 72oz "Engineer's" hammer and revisit the question.

[blackbelt_jones]

In the words of Lou Reed: "I have made... a very big decision."

Since I started this thread I wrote the following elsewhere on this site

I'm not much of a geek, but if there's anything I know about, it's how Debian is making enormous strides toward people like me, who are not much of a geek. Apt-get had already made package management for Debian incredibly easy. With the new installer, it takes another huge step toward the slogan on the web page: "The Universal Operating System" What Debian is becoming is easy to install, easy to maintain, but infinitely configurable and powerful in the hands of a power user. In the future, I don't know if we're going to have all these distros, but I'm pretty sure we're not going to need them.


The subtitle of my book is to be "Desktop Linux for Non-geeks." (The main title is too good to give away.) After writing that passage, it ocurred to me that I want to concentrate exclusively on Debian, and so, naturally, I want to write my book on a Debian computer.

And so, the winner is SARGE!

[eskiled]

Could someone please educate me on what all this crap about debian is. What is the Debian Base System. And what are all these installers, and testing/stable/unstable/etc crap about, and how can mepis and ubuntu both be debian. What makes it debian. What is the official installer/distro of debian (www.debian.org).


Thankyou,
eskiled

[andycrofts]

Why didn't you lob SuSE Personal 9.1 on it?
YaST's so slow, you won't wanna upgrade packages with it, it does NOT have "tar" so you can't even put extra stuff on it that way :D

BUT it does have Open Office, and print support...
It also has MrProject, for gantt-charting those all-important Deadlines!!!

Personally, I love it for a tinker-free machine.

-Andy

[rocketpcguy]

huh, linux is a another distraction! if you installed windows 98 instead (no viruses, its offline!), youll get no trouble. by the time you finish installing and configuring linux (same or slower boot time that a clean windows), you couldve written another chapter.

come to think of it, i guess you WOULD have more trouble with windows, as it doesnt come with decent drivers, youll take your hair out finding them out. a DSL cd can make the PC usable in a minute or two.

fedora doesnt have to be bloated. just use a light WM and cut down services.

[blackbelt_jones]

You're saying I should write my book about Linux on a Windows computer? Where did I put that ball-peen hammer?

On my computer, Linux installs much faster than Windows. Actually, the install takes about the same time, it's the formating that takes so long in Windows, both 98 and XP.

All that stuff about how Linux is hard to install just isn't true anymore. The Debian install is vastly imporved, and I'm pretty certain that a chimp could be trained to install SuSE 9.0 and 9.1.

[bradfordgd]

Distractions seem to be your problem, so why not order a typewriter off of ebay for something like $2.00, do an "rm -fr /*" on your linux box and then while you're waiting for the mailman to come, think of all sorts of great ideas for your book?

[rocketpcguy]

typewriters may be distracting too, what if you run out of cartidges? just write your stuff down in a empty copy and after you're done, pay one of us to type it down after you mail it.

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by bradfordgd
Distractions seem to be your problem, so why not order a typewriter off of ebay for something like $2.00, do an "rm -fr /*" on your linux box and then while you're waiting for the mailman to come, think of all sorts of great ideas for your book?

Now you're just f***ing with me, aren't you? That's okay, I forgive you.

My father's a recently retired newspaperman who started his career in the fifties. A few years back, he told me that he wouldn't even know how to use a typewriter anymore.

Does ICQ still have that great typewriter sound effect? I'd love it if AbiWord or OpenOffice or Gedit could do that.

[irlandes]

Almost any distro these days has at least one word processor, things like Knoppix have OpenOffice, which is even compatible with the Microsoft virus sponge programs.

If you have access to fast Internet, you can download then and burn them on a CD. One, Kanotix, is one of the easiest to install. And, if you find one which will hit your printer, you can run it without even installing it.

For word processing, you don't need much, just one that will boot on your machine and will hit your printer, and some sort of storage media.

For writing, there isn't much that has happened since Word Perfect 5.1 that is important.

Of course, for research writers, LaTeX and LyX might be important, but doesn't sound like you need much. There will be some file format requirements, which is the reason I mention OpenOffice on Live CD's.

[mjjohansen]

If you want to reanimate your old PC, I say Slackware-based VectorLinux (http://www.vectorlinux) - it is great for old iron. I have it on my girlfriend's old 600MHz laptop, and it runs great (the alternative was throwing it out, beacuse pre-installed WinME was too slow). I use it for writing, too, with AbiWord (http://www.abisource.com/), which is about as light as it gets. I can listen to music with XMMS while writing, and it doesn't give me choppy sound or anything.

[blackbelt_jones]

Actually, for most of the writing process, I prefer a simple text editor like gedit (or edxor in windows) to a word processor. I'll open it in AbiWord for spellchecking and formatting before I consider it to be a finished product.

[EnigmaOne]

Just found an old Royal portable typewriter (no cartridges here, double-spool ribbon with both red AND black ink!) in my Dad's garage--the one I used to use in school, as a matter of fact. Oh! The fond memories! (gag)

Opening bid is 2 bucks (US). ;)

[blackbelt_jones]

My experience of four days with no hard drive put me in mind of a more elegant solution... a live CD! If I could find or maybe invent a Live CD that didn't have a connection to the internet, I could create my own work environment.

[retsaw]

Make your own livecd. It's easy to modify Knoppix, at least it was when I did it. You could remove all the internet applications from it, or just remove the modules for the network cards, so it can't connect. :)

[AndrewLubinus89]

I second slackware. It is very simple (but you have to know commands and crap) installs without too much config needed (well, compared to my first love gentoo). Within half and hour you have a full system up. For writing it's perfect (ie, you don't need to install a lot of packages or have an awesome gui with crystal icons etc)

[blackbelt_jones]

Wow, that sounds really cool! It also sounds light years over my head right now, but I might as well look into it. There's "recipes" on the Morphix Site.

I'd want to keep at least one browser so I can test HTML.

"Remove the nodules?" How hard could that be? Sounds like you get the source code, remove a tiny amount of code, and recompile. Is it really that simple?

[retsaw]

The modules would be in "/lib/modules/<kernel_version>/kernel/drivers/net", just delete them when you modify the image and then they won't be able to load. There's no need to mess around with any source code or compiling. With apt-get to handle adding or removing programs and a "recipe" to guide you through the steps involved it's not difficult. I think the hardest part would be to resist the temptation to reboot into your regular distro to use the internet.

[blackbelt_jones]

Okay, well I still don't understand what I'm doing exactly... do I make an image of the CD on my hard drive and modify the image? I'll see if I can find the answer at the Morphix site. Thanks!

[pickarooney]

As far as I know, none of the live CDs come with an ethernet cable...

[retsaw]

As I remember, it went something like:
Boot up the CD
Copy the compressed filesystem (by that I mean from where it is mounted, which is everything under /KNOPPIX for Knoppix) to a partition with lots of space.
Chroot into your newly copied filesystem.
Make any changes you want.
Exit the chroot environment.
Create a new compressed loop filesystem.
Create a new CD using your new compressed loop filesystem and the files from the original CD.

Of course my memory may be wrong or things may have changed and almost certainly you will get a better and more detailed discription of what to do from one of the guides on how to do this.

As pickarooney pointed out, removing the ethernet cable would be a far easier way to achieve the same effect, but you'll learn more by doing it this way. ;)

[blackbelt_jones]

Yes, out of doubt, this pickeroony chap speaks the truth...

yet the idea of using a live cd to customize my computer environment for work and work alone has captured my imagination. It seems like kind of project that is within my reach.

Bt the way, I just booted up the Gnoppix disk for only the second time, and I think I like it,

[hop-frog]

Here's if I were making a no-distractions setup:

Minimal install of SuSE 9.0 or 9.1 (there will be plenty of extra HD space left)
+ X11
+ Ratpoison (http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/) (or another full-screen window manager)
+ AbiWord

I'd set the distro to login to the user account automatically (easily setup in Yast). I'd change .xinitrc so that it runs Ratpoison first and then the word processor.

When the computer boots, the only thing open is AbiWord, with nothing else to get in the way. Typing CTRL+t CTRL+c opens a terminal if it is ever needed.

To shut down the computer, simply exit the word processor.

[madcompnerd]

shutdown now
*open case*
*remove nic*
*turn back on*

There ya go.

[rbrimhall]

So, blackbelt? Have you begun working on your novel or or you delving into the world of custom linux live cds? Just curious, I've been following this but you haven't mentioned the novel in awhile...;)

[Mojo2000]

Originally posted by blackbelt_jones
My experience of four days with no hard drive put me in mind of a more elegant solution... a live CD! If I could find or maybe invent a Live CD that didn't have a connection to the internet, I could create my own work environment.

Of course, consider how you are planning to write and create documents without a hard drive. :D Unless of course you are saving to a USB Flash drive.

[AdamZ]

Originally posted by Mojo2000
Of course, consider how you are planning to write and create documents without a hard drive. :D Unless of course you are saving to a USB Flash drive.
Which gives me the idea:
Use dsl (http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/) booted off a USB drive, and save to the USB drive!

[blackbelt_jones]

Well, I have a hard drive now, and with at least my favorite Live CD, Kanotix, writing to the harddrive is easy,

However, when I didn't have a hard drive, my favorite way to save text documents documents short term was online in my Yahoo email account. Not long ago, I noticed a tab on my email page that read "notepad", that allows me to save text for all kinds of useful stuff, which I can later access from any computer with an online connection anytime I like. For example, I have a page of links, a permanent bookmark page that I can access from any Windows or Linux system that I happen to be running, and that will survive my many reinstalls.

Hmmm... but of course, an offline system won't be able to access Yahoo, so if you'll excuse me...

D-OH!

Why is it that only my most embarrassing threads go on to be featured as "hot threads"? Go figger.:rolleyes:

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by rbrimhall
So, blackbelt? Have you begun working on your novel or or you delving into the world of custom linux live cds? Just curious, I've been following this but you haven't mentioned the novel in awhile...;)

It's not a novel. I'm trying to write a book about learning Linux from the point of view of someone who had a hard time with it-- so these "distractions" aren't really taking me that much farther away, are they?

I have begun writing, but right now continuting my Linux education is just as important. I may even go for some elementary certification before I begin work in earnest.

[madcompnerd]

Sounds interesting. You might consider setting up a very simple arch system that has only X and your favorite text editor (yea, that's entirely possible to do, if your favorite text editor doesn't depend on too much). It's pretty quick to setup, you should be able to get going in 30 minutes if you know what you're doing.
One of my computer science teachers says he uses an old 40MHz Mac for all of his document production. For two reasons:
1.) No distractions
2.) When he hits print, it prints the document.

[Captain_K]

Originally posted by bradfordgd
Distractions seem to be your problem, so why not order a typewriter off of ebay for something like $2.00, do an "rm -fr /*" on your linux box and then while you're waiting for the mailman to come, think of all sorts of great ideas for your book?

Ah yes the Delicate sound of the hard drive cranking, your data screams but, alas, it can not be heard....

I like the SuSe idea, YAST is slow and the install is done for you, so.... why not.

[blackbelt_jones]

I'm about ready to start. In the end, I think it's gonna be Woody. It would be fun to find a use for Woody; there's just something classic about it. I just got the computer-- a P1 with 64mb RAM, for 50 bucks, genuine IBM. It would be fun to use Woody. There's something about Woody that makes it feel like a classic. Never could get my soundcard working in Woody, but that's not an issue here.

I'm discovering that when you're writing about computing, there are a lot of reasons why a second computer is a handy thing to have, like when I decided to write down everything that happens in a Sarge install from beginning to end. I used a yellow legal pad, and now I have to type it all out a second time.

[psych-major]

It's my #1 choice for older boxes, and 10.1 includes XFCE to save you some space on that 4,500meg HD!

I have used SuSE 9.1 and found it to be stable and it does include OpenOffice. (and gtk-gnutella, if you sneak it onto the internet)

But what would really be slick is a 185meg Slax mini cd and a 256meg USB drive. You can move your /home directory to the USB drive, it automatically saves your config, and the world is your word processor! Armed with only the 2 aforementioned items, any PC with a CD-ROM and a USB port will boot up exactly like you left the last one. One word of caution, however, it defaults to DHCP, so if you stumble across a PC with internet access, you may inadvertanlty find yourself reading /. and JL, rather than working!

LOL and have fun...

[psych-major]

Don't even install X, just use vi like in the old (really old) days!

[sharkzf6]

I think the book's already been written...it's called "Linux For Dummies".

[blackbelt_jones]

Actually, I didn't find "Linux For Dummies" helpful at all. In order to be digestable, computer books ought to be at least two books-- a tutorial and a reference book, with the two parts cross-indexed. Too many books combine the two functions. I don't want to have to read a walk-through of a Linux installation in order to get basic principles. I want to have that handy when I'm installing. Naturallly, unless I'm installing at that moment, I want to skip the walk-though while I'm reading. So I do all this skipping around that leads to me missing the context for understanding a lot of stuff. I skip around, and I find that wherever I look, it's either entirely too basic, or useless to me, or completely unintelligible.

The idea is that if you take a certain amount of material, and put it in the back of the book where I can find it... and if the author has some style and is actually excited about Linux, a book can be created with a certain flow that a layman can simply sit down with and READ. A book like that may already exist, but it sure ain't "Linux for Dummies".

[sharkzf6]

Originally posted by blackbelt_jones
Actually, I didn't find "Linux For Dummies" helpful at all. <snip> A book like that may already exist, but it sure ain't "Linux for Dummies".
I'm sure your perspective is valid. What I'm also sure of is, there is more than one "For Dummies" book available for Linux. I read "Red Hat Linux 7 For Dummies" back in 2000 - my first attempt at Linux. It even came with a 3 CD distro of same. Even back then I was no computer "Dummie", just a Linux dummie, and I found the book to be quite helpful. Yes, it did start out by walking the reader through a complete install/setup, but what better way to learn.? I ended up dropping Linux after about 4 months but that had nothing to do with the book. Funny thing is, since I started using Linux again, I have used that book for some basic issues that aren't distro specific. The reference you talk about does exist, it's called the index...

;)

Besides, my comment was intended to be humorous... :D

[blackbelt_jones]

Well, my comment was not intended to be humorous. When you make humorous comments about someone's work, don't be surprised if he doesn't get the joke.

Believe me, if I haven't seen every Linux for dummies and Idiots and morons book out there, I've certainly seen my share. The problem is that they're not written by dummies, they're written by experts. We need a book that is written by an actual dummy. That's where I come in.

Of course, you need to insure accurate information, and so experts would need to be brought in during the editing part of the project.

I'm not proposing leaving the installation out, you know, just put it in the back of the book. All of the detailed information that intereferes with the flow of the text can be put in the back and referred to in a general way in the main text. It it's well-written, the result would be something that a non-geek can sit down and read.

When I look up information in the index, I usually lack the context for understanding it, but if I had something general to read that supplied the context for all the more specific information that I'm going to want to look up when I need it, I'd be golden.

It took me two years to get to the point where Linux was my main OS, and I was a) unemployed most of that time and b)obsessed with Linux.

Looking back, it didn't have to take so long. Linux is not that hard.

[sharkzf6]

Originally posted by blackbelt_jones
Well, my comment was not intended to be humorous. When you make humorous comments about someone's work, don't be surprised if he doesn't get the joke. :( lighten up man
Believe me, if I haven't seen every Linux for dummies and Idiots and morons book out there, I've certainly seen my share. The problem is that they're not written by dummies, they're written by experts. We need a book that is written by an actual dummy. That's where I come in. Agree ;)
Of course, you need to insure accurate information, and so experts would need to be brought in during the editing part of the project. Why would and expert waste their time editing a book by a "dummie". Sounds more like a total rewrite to me...
I'm not proposing leaving the installation out, you know, just put it in the back of the book. All of the detailed information that intereferes with the flow of the text can be put in the back and referred to in a general way in the main text. It it's well-written, the result would be something that a non-geek can sit down and read. I've come to the conclusion that GNU/Linux is not a good OS for non-geeks. It's not called the "Propeller Head" OS for nothing...
When I look up information in the index, I usually lack the context for understanding it, but if I had something general to read that supplied the context for all the more specific information that I'm going to want to look up when I need it, I'd be golden. After reading this sentence 5 times, I've come to the realization that "I'm" the moron...
It took me two years to get to the point where Linux was my main OS, and I was a) unemployed most of that time and b)obsessed with Linux. I can relate...
Looking back, it didn't have to take so long. Linux is not that hard. No, it's not hard, however, it is difficult.
Most people these days that are "in to" computers have spent much of their time learning Windows/DOS. GNU/Linux presents a completely different way of thinking for these types of people. I think I'm a classic case of this paradigm. If you like, I can help you by proofing what you write and giving you feedback based on my empirical knowledge and the fact that I'm a good model of your target audience. Cheers!

[blackbelt_jones]

Most (but not all) of the reasons why Linux is so much more difficult to learn than Windows are cultural. If Linux were as common as Windows, we wouldn't be having this conversation. For one thing, how many people who learn Windows have to start with installing their OS?

The idea behind someone who really struggled with Linux writing documentation, as opposed to someone who, as likely as not. contributed to writing it, comes from my belief that computer-geeks don't really understand how non-geeks learn. And some of them just aren't very good writers.

I'm going to need collaborators, but I believe that your basic linux manual needs to be restructured. My part will be to create the structure. I won't be able to supply all the knowledge.

I've got the basic germ of the the book outlined, and when I'm ready, I'll write it, and after it's written, the plan is that I put it on a website. Initially, I'm going to copyright it, but it might wind up as a wiki, or published under a version of the GPL..

This may not really solve the problem, but better Linux documentation for non-geeks is absolutely possible, and somebody's going to do it sooner or later. Maybe it's already out there, but if it is, I haven't been able to find it, and if I manage to write another one, maybe it'll increase the odds.

[sharkzf6]

Originally posted by blackbelt_jones
Most (but not all) of the reasons why Linux is so much more difficult to learn than Windows are cultural. If Linux were as common as Windows, we wouldn't be having this conversation.I don't know about it being "cultural", but it's obvious we woudn't be having this conversation if Linux were as common as Windows.
For one thing, how many people who learn Windows have to start with installing their OS?
Exellent point...
The idea behind someone who really struggled with Linux writing documentation, as opposed to someone who, as likely as not. contributed to writing it, comes from my belief that computer-geeks don't really understand how non-geeks learn. And some of them just aren't very good writers. You may have a valid point. In the same respect, computer geeks may have learned the same way we are, I always figured that's why they have no other life...it's all they do so they have the time to do it.
I'm going to need collaborators, but I believe that your basic linux manual needs to be restructured. My part will be to create the structure. I won't be able to supply all the knowledge.

I've got the basic germ of the the book outlined, and when I'm ready, I'll write it, and after it's written, the plan is that I put it on a website. Initially, I'm going to copyright it, but it might wind up as a wiki, or published under a version of the GPL..

This may not really solve the problem, but better Linux documentation for non-geeks is absolutely possible, and somebody's going to do it sooner or later. Maybe it's already out there, but if it is, I haven't been able to find it, and if I manage to write another one, maybe it'll increase the odds. I'm glad you have a plan, now what about my offer to proof it?

[blackbelt_jones]

/me shrugs

Ask me again when I've actually written something, but the odds that I'm going to turn my manuscript over to someone I meet in an online forum are roughly the same as me agreeing to have sex with someone I meet in an online forum... unless you're female-- in which case, they are considerably lower. When I'm ready, I'll put it online for anyone to correct, criticize, or comment on.

Originally posted by sharkzf6
:( lighten up man[/B]

Don't get me wrong. I didn't take offense; I just didn't get the joke. The humor doesn't translate from your perspective to mine, and I think you'll find that's true about many people who are deeply involved in a project... except, perhaps, for the not taking offense part.

Originally posted by sharkzf6
I don't know about it being "cultural", but it's obvious we woudn't be having this conversation if Linux were as common as Windows.[/b]

So how do YOU define "cultural"?