Wots with the Debian mirrors and java?

[CptKrf]

I installed a new Knoppix 3.7 just to give it a spin (and it is pretty good) but when I did an apt-get update, every java reference was broken. I assumed that it was a bug in the new distro.

Then... I did my weekly apt-get update on my main Woody machine, which ALWAYS works, and it did the same thing. So did a Sarge system.

I haven't seen any reference to Java, one way or another, on the boards. Anybody else done an index update lately and did you get the same thing?

Hmmm...
Did Sun tell the good Debian folks to knock it off?
Microsoft buy Java and make it into jamoke.net?
Java is so slow that the world gave up on it?

Anybody?

CptKrf

[sharth]

Welllllllllll.....

2 things.

Could we see your /etc/apt/sources.list and could we see the actual error message?

[Fryguy8]

java has a license, it's not "free" therefore it's not in the base debian repositories. You need to either use an alternative, like blackdown, or add a non-standard repository to your sources.list

It baffles me that it ever worked in the first place.

[sharth]

not exactly. There are references to java in debian proper, since they distribute Kaffe and other programs (other java vms).

However, what I suspect is that he has some addictional apt source in his /etc/apt/sources.list and the mirror has been shut down. Or he is mixing stable and unstable.

[CptKrf]

Actually, I don't really care if the java works or not. If I want excruciatingly slow programs I will try to find a Visual Basic for Linux:-)

The above post is just an observation that I made. On the Knoppix apt-sources that I have tried, I just use the canned ones that come with the distro without any changes.

I have used Knoppix 3.3 ever since it came out and it always did an apt-get update cleanly. Now it breaks on the java links, so something has changed outside of my admittedly sometimes ham fingered hacking.

Just curious, don't really care unless other apt process start breaking also. The apt process is one of the main reasons that I switched to Debian from RH in the first place.

CptKrf

[Fryguy8]

Please don't spew out old knowledge that was accurate back in the mid 90s. With the exception of swing, java is as fast or faster than fully compiled languges these days, and there have been tests/studies to show it.

If you want to keep spewing out useless information, please at least do some research before doing so.

[CptKrf]

I don't need research. I have too many java programs to maintain that the unenlightened have installed. Besides, "tests/studies" are like an EPA milage rating - The only thing that counts is the actual experience of the user. And our/my experience is that a java replacement is slower and clumsier than what it replaced, although it may be far easier to install and maintain. I am speaking of Windoze programs here - have little experience of java on Linux - don't think we have even one.

Now, it was pointed out to me by a cohort that there may be another reason for my dislike. Java is so much easier and faster to learn than C++ that possibly some of our canned stuff has come from far less experienced programmers. Just an idea that may be valid.

Of course, he also points out that I have, on occasion, trashed the good names of programmers who have written in C, C++, Pascal / Delphi, Basic, APL, Fortran, RPG, Prolog and assembler. Come to think of it, the last decent language that made sense was Autocoder:-)

That aside, my post wasn't to knock java (little j) since I don't use it any more, don't allow it on the network unless there is no alternative, and really don't care. Just wondering why it dropped out of the usual mirror set using the same apt-sources.

CptKrf

[sharth]

hmm. and I would like to reiterate the fact that we can't answer that question unless we know whats in your /etc/apt/sources.list

And the error message might help too. Makes our answering a bit easier.

[CptKrf]

That is because you are not reading the question correctly (or I didn't make the question clear, which is also a definite possiblity.)

I don't care if I ever apt-get a java module. Not on a silver platter. Not in a thousand years. Not even when the big freeze over in H.... but I digress.

The question is...

Have any other Knoppix users, on a fresh hard disk install straight out of the can and without doing any customising, see this same symptom after doing an apt-get update???

CptKrf

------------------
However, if someone needs to see the actual errors and apt-sources for their own reasons, I will procure them and post same. The machines with the symptoms just don't happen to be at my home location.

[rocketpcguy]

we would like to see your /etc/apt/sources.list

[CoffeeMan]

True, java is slow and it is insecure. If you want/need java, go to http://www.java.com, and download the runtime installer for linux, it will be a .bin file, so execute it with the sh command. sh j2re-XXXX-.bin

[sharth]

I've looked around at a few of the popular knoppix boards and found nothing. But I dunno.

[CptKrf]

Originally posted by rocketpcguy
we would like to see your /etc/apt/sources.list

Okey doke. Here is a virgin /etc/apt/sources.list from Knoppix 3.7 just installed to the hard drive and with no modifications of anything (except ppp to get online to apt-get update). All of the java references still bounce.

CptKrf

# /etc/apt/sources.list for Knoppix
# If you want to do a "full upgrade", you should first
# upgrade the Packages from Debian/unstable (KDE & Co.)
# before doing a (dist-)upgrade for Debian/testing.
#
# See sources.list(5) for more information, especialy
# Remember that you can only use http, ftp or file URIs
# CDROMs are managed through the apt-cdrom tool.

# Security updates for "stable"
deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org testing/updates main contrib non-free

# Stable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian stable main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free

# Stable Sources
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian stable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free

# Testing
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian testing main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian-non-US testing/non-US main contrib non-free

# Testing Sources
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian testing main contrib non-free

deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/pub/debian-non-US testing/non-US main contrib non-free

# Unstable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib non-free

# Unstable Sources
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib non-free

# Experimental
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main contrib non-free

# Experimental Sources
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main contrib non-free

# Java
deb ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian woody main non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian woody main non-free
deb ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian unstable main non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian unstable main non-free

# More wireless stuff
deb http://debian.isg.ee.ethz.ch/public woody madwifi
deb-src http://debian.isg.ee.ethz.ch/public woody madwifi
deb http://debian.isg.ee.ethz.ch/public woody airo-mpi
deb-src http://debian.isg.ee.ethz.ch/public woody airo-mpi
# deb ftp://ftp.tcweb.org/pub/debian unstable main
# deb-src ftp://ftp.tcweb.org/pub/debian unstable main

# ndiswrapper
deb http://rigtorp.se/debian unstable/
deb-src http://rigtorp.se/debian unstable/

# NX stuff
# deb http://www.kalyxo.org/debian/ experimental main

# Blades Repository (pppoeconf & co)
# deb http://people.debian.org/~blade/testing ./
# deb-src http://people.debian.org/~blade/testing ./

# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 r3 _Potato_ - Official i386 Binary-1 (20010427)]/ unstable contrib main non-US/contrib non-US/main

# Knoppix special packages resource at LinuxTag HQ
# deb http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./
# deb-src http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./

[CptKrf]

I have a dinky little Celeron here at home that I am going to load Knoppix 3.3 and give it a try. Makes a good control because I apt-getted for almost a year without any problems with K3.3. If this one also bombs on java updates then something has changed in the world somewhere.

If not, then something in the new Knoppix and Sarge installer is wrong - or I am looking at this whole incident wrongly.

Only problem is that on a 28k phone line, the update takes about 2 hours, unless I make a mistake and try an apt-get upgrade - which takes about 27 years.

CptKrf

[sharth]

deb ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian woody main non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian woody main non-free

Well, those don't exist.

But the unstable ones still do, so I would expect the apt-get upgrading to still work, the apt-get update should probalby just fail on that.

Just to verify something, does the apt-get upgrade work fine? is it only an error on the apt-get update?

[CptKrf]

Originally posted by sharth

Just to verify something, does the apt-get upgrade work fine? is it only an error on the apt-get update?

Yep. The apt-get upgrade works fine for me because there is no java stuff to upgrade. In fact, the apt-get update works fine also; it just posts a error on the java module links and tells you at the end that some stuff did not work.

CptKrf

[sharth]

Then yeah, I would just lean towards the site having deleted that part of the mirror set... On the next upgrade of knoppix you might try to steal their new sources.list.