slackware question + partition problem

[Ludootje]

1st: a lot of ppl say that mandrake is for newbies, and slackware etc not at all
what's the difference?
i mean, what makes it more difficult

2nd: i have 40gig on my hd, and 2partitions, one with win98 and one with mandrake8.1
can i add a partition WITHOUT losing ANY data on one of my partitions, just less space on my mandrake-partition
well, i'm almost sure i can, so my problem is mostly "how do i add that partition" are there (good) linuxprograms for it, or is it also possible with "partition magic" or something like that for windows, cause installing isn't working, all that "make" "makefile" **** always fails.. :( :( can't they just make it easy like windows' *.exe's, or put everything in *.rpm's :/

[fateswarm]

Mandrake has a cool resize tool for partitions. At least on 8.1, that tool worked fine for a friend of mine.(I'm recruiting more! :)

There was a warning about the posibility to lose data through this method, but, it worked fine.

About your first question, if you just moved into Linux worlds AND Mandrake is the only distro you have used and you're happy with it then..

BE AWARE

Slackware is for experts. I started with Slackware alright, it was my first distro, but that was just a simple misunderstanding. I should have thought better that "Slack rules man!" suggestions :)))

In overall, Slack is the best for experts in my opinion, but if you're not of them, then it's better keep you nice Mandrake(mandrake rocks) and move to Slackware when you feel you're experienced enough.

- FateSwarm

[fateswarm]

Just an addition.. Slackware has no automatic configuration. No harddrakes, no softdrakes, no slakrakes, no "drakes".

I hope you got the point.

It has a few setup tools alright, but these are for the basic things.

Don't expect your tv card, even your sound card to work on Slack from the first boot.

HINT: It took me a month to have my tv card up and running on Slack. Mandrake got it on at once. Imagine the difference : )

ps. I know I know, I always talk about my tv card but.. isn't just great!? LOL

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by FateSWarm:
<STRONG>Just an addition.. Slackware has no automatic configuration. No harddrakes, no softdrakes, no slakrakes, no "drakes".

I hope you got the point.

It has a few setup tools alright, but these are for the basic things.

Don't expect your tv card, even your sound card to work on Slack from the first boot.

HINT: It took me a month to have my tv card up and running on Slack. Mandrake got it on at once. Imagine the difference : )

ps. I know I know, I always talk about my tv card but.. isn't just great!? LOL</STRONG>

tnx.. now i get the difference ;)

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by FateSWarm:
<STRONG>Mandrake has a cool resize tool for partitions. At least on 8.1, that tool worked fine for a friend of mine.(I'm recruiting more! :)</STRONG>

what's that tool?

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by FateSWarm:
<STRONG>Just an addition.. Slackware has no automatic configuration. No harddrakes, no softdrakes, no slakrakes, no "drakes".

I hope you got the point.

It has a few setup tools alright, but these are for the basic things.

Don't expect your tv card, even your sound card to work on Slack from the first boot.

HINT: It took me a month to have my tv card up and running on Slack. Mandrake got it on at once. Imagine the difference : )

ps. I know I know, I always talk about my tv card but.. isn't just great!? LOL</STRONG>

now i know what's bad about slackware, could you also tell what's good about it?

[fateswarm]

Originally posted by Ludootje:
<STRONG>what's that tool?</STRONG>

You are asked during the installation. Maybe it's not part of a past version. I've only tried 8.1.

[fateswarm]

Originally posted by Ludootje:
<STRONG>now i know what's bad about slackware, could you also tell what's good about it?</STRONG>

It may sounds dull, but that's what Slack fanatics love.

The ability to setup everything by themselves. If you don't get the point of that, then you're right, they are stupid man, they are stupid man!!!

LOLOLOL


Aaaahh, they are just experts..

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by FateSWarm:
<STRONG>It may sounds dull, but that's what Slack fanatics love.

The ability to setup everything by themselves. If you don't get the point of that, then you're right, they are stupid man, they are stupid man!!!

LOLOLOL


Aaaahh, they are just experts..</STRONG>

setting up everything yourself is good, cause then it will be done like you want it, though all those *drake stuff which mandrake offers configure it also, i just don't have to search for all those txtfiles and edit them with an editor.. and the result is - at least, that's what i think - the same

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by FateSWarm:
<STRONG>You are asked during the installation. Maybe it's not part of a past version. I've only tried 8.1.</STRONG>
hmmz i have 8.1.. i'll put those cds in it once again and see what i can do
tnx for the help

[fateswarm]

No problem.

You will have the option of 'resize' inside the partition-setup window.

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by FateSWarm:
<STRONG>No problem.

You will have the option of 'resize' inside the partition-setup window.</STRONG>
ok tnx

[Ludootje]

is there also an "add partition" option?

[Bernd]

Well, you have heard all the good things about Mandrake, now. But there are also some bad things:

1.) Lots of the tools you have heard about are very very buggy (Last time I used Mdk was about 18 month ago (Mdk-7.1) and most Mdk specific tools were simply unusable. But instead of making the tools more bugfree, Mandrake only added new features and a more nice looking. I suggest you read some bug reports.

2.) The looking of the tools seems to be disigned for infants to make them play with it, but not for real working.

3.) It uses rpm package management (as unfortunality many other distributions do), which make things very difficult.
E.g. you want to install avifile (a very good avi-player) from source. Avifile needs sdl. Sdl (the linux analoga to direct x) is needed by many other programs. So you need to have installed it as rpm-package. But the rpm package was created with an older version of XFree4.x that a little bit different design.
So when you begin to compile avifile it includes some sdl features which were created with a different version of XFree than the version you have.
Finally you will fail to compile avifile, though it's not the fault of avifile but instead of Mandrake. Even the programmer of avifile will not know what is the reason for that. But even when you find out thats the fault of the combination of sdl and XFree it will be very difficult to solve this, since you can't replace sdl by your own version since it's required by other rpm packages. Sure, you can force the deinstall, but drakerpm (or however it is called now) will everytime complain that sdl is missing (though you have compiled your own version). When you force lots of things in you packagemanager it will anyone give up to work at all.

Are you still with me?? :-)

Slackware instead has no package dependencies, packages are mostly very compatible to each other (though I recommend to compile sdl nevertheless, since it's very system dependend). When you compile sdl on a slackware system and install it, you will never have the difficulties as on Mandrake.

3.) Mandrake uses gcc-3.x which is still very buggy. Some program will still not compile with this version.

4.) Slackware configuration scripts are very good understandable (and commented in the scripts).

I will surely find lots of other things why I prefer slackware, but I think I could show you that all that glitters is not gold.


Bernd, a convinced Slackware user

[Bernd]

What file system do you use?

At least for ext2 and reiserfs are resizing tools available (part of the reiserfs and ext2 progs). Read the man page for both.

But be warned, at least resize_reiserfs is optimized for enlarging your file system and not for making it smaller, though it may work nevertheless. For
resize2fs i do not know.
If you have important data on your file system I would backup them in ervery case

Bernd

[Nekopa]

I will just add my $0.02 on why I like slackware.

I have had Redhat and Mandrake up and running on my system before, and they worked fine, nice GUIs, config utils etc. But I found when something broke I was pretty much clueless on how to fix it. I was *using* Linux, but not really *learning* Linux. So I switched to Slack, and started learning the basics of Linux. So now I am starting to feel more comfortable with my system when something goes wrong.

Yes, it is a steeper learning curve, but that is what *I* like. I wanted to learn the ins and outs of Linux. And as for installing software, now I don't need to worry if there is a RPM, or a deb package for a certain piece of software, I am now getting more and more comfortable with source files, and how to read and edit config files, and it has opened up so much more software out there.

Now I know where to find needed librararies, where most of my config files go, what all that stuff in /dev is all about, what most of the kernel modules are for etc...

That is why Slackware is wonderful for me :D

Lee

[z0mbix]

Just run diskdrake to resize your partitions. There's no need to reinstall - :D

[X_console]

Ok, here's the deal with Slackware, good and bad, coming from a Slacker.

First, Slackware isn't a difficult distro to install. The difficulty depends only your computer background. The installation is simple. There are no 3d-buttons, no nice colors, no. Simple and straight to the point. To people who're used to Windows, this will seem to be difficult and hard to navigate. A little practice and you'll see that it's not. It also offers you full control over what you want. If you tell it not to install something, it won't install it (unlike some distro's I've tried).

Contrary to popular belief, Slackware, does have some tools to set services up for you. Eg: netconfig, liloconfig, mouseconfig, fontconfig, etc... The installation will setup whatever it can for you. The default Slackware kernel also has framebuffer support, so if you say yes to framebuffer during installation, you don't even have to configure X. Type startx at the start and up comes X.

There is some reading required if you really want to get your system up and running. You'll find first of all that Slack doesn't have the latest and greatest software because the latest and greatest tend to have the latest and greatest security holes and stability problems. You can of course download and install the latest and greatest if you so wish. But a default Slack install will not contain software that has not been proven stable. Unfortunately, like most distros, Slackware also opens up a lot of useless services that the user needs to manually shut down, such as finger (why?).

Slackware does have a package manager, but no, it's not super advanced like RedHat's or Debian's. Some effort is being put into advancing it, but if you ask me, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything advanced until the Slack team gets a large group of people to help them out. Therefore upgrading Slackware can be quite a pain, but fortunately there's little need to upgrade because the base system is pretty stable.

I wish I could say that security problems in Slack are fixed right away. This used to be the case but what's happened now? There are two security issues going on with Slack and not a single official fix available for a month or over now? Unofficial fixes can be obtained from SecurityFocus but otherwise...???

Slackware uses BSD style init scripts, which I find to be easier to manage than SysV. If you're coming from a BSD background you'll probably find Slack to be friendlier.

Slack 8.0 also offers you to create a reiserfs filesystem (you need to install by creating boot disks and not by booting from the CD) instead of the old (but proven) ext2.

So, is Slackware for you?

1. Do you like to tinker with stuff?
2. Do you want to learn how to configure your system the way it was done before the GUIs came about?
3. Do you want to learn how Linux works from the inside?
4. Do you want to be able to take part in Debian vs. Slackware wars?

If you said yes to all of the above, get your local copy of Slack now and never look back. 'Coz a Slacker who looks back is shunned forever by Slackers! :eek:

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by Bernd:
<STRONG>Well, you have heard all the good things about Mandrake, now. But there are also some bad things:

1.) Lots of the tools you have heard about are very very buggy (Last time I used Mdk was about 18 month ago (Mdk-7.1) and most Mdk specific tools were simply unusable. But instead of making the tools more bugfree, Mandrake only added new features and a more nice looking. I suggest you read some bug reports.

2.) The looking of the tools seems to be disigned for infants to make them play with it, but not for real working.

3.) It uses rpm package management (as unfortunality many other distributions do), which make things very difficult.
E.g. you want to install avifile (a very good avi-player) from source. Avifile needs sdl. Sdl (the linux analoga to direct x) is needed by many other programs. So you need to have installed it as rpm-package. But the rpm package was created with an older version of XFree4.x that a little bit different design.
So when you begin to compile avifile it includes some sdl features which were created with a different version of XFree than the version you have.
Finally you will fail to compile avifile, though it's not the fault of avifile but instead of Mandrake. Even the programmer of avifile will not know what is the reason for that. But even when you find out thats the fault of the combination of sdl and XFree it will be very difficult to solve this, since you can't replace sdl by your own version since it's required by other rpm packages. Sure, you can force the deinstall, but drakerpm (or however it is called now) will everytime complain that sdl is missing (though you have compiled your own version). When you force lots of things in you packagemanager it will anyone give up to work at all.

Are you still with me?? :-)

Slackware instead has no package dependencies, packages are mostly very compatible to each other (though I recommend to compile sdl nevertheless, since it's very system dependend). When you compile sdl on a slackware system and install it, you will never have the difficulties as on Mandrake.

3.) Mandrake uses gcc-3.x which is still very buggy. Some program will still not compile with this version.

4.) Slackware configuration scripts are very good understandable (and commented in the scripts).

I will surely find lots of other things why I prefer slackware, but I think I could show you that all that glitters is not gold.


Bernd, a convinced Slackware user</STRONG>

the rpms: you can still install .tar.gz's, and i think that each distro should use .rpm's, cause that's (at least for me) the biggest pain: installing
all that compiling NEVER works (cause of the bad gcc version it seems :( :()
though, rpm's mostly work

i agree with that gcc-version, does slack for example use anither? i suppose they'll also take the latest..

most of those config programs work fine, and if they don't (or you don't wanna use them) you can still edit those config-files like you do with your slack

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by Bernd:
<STRONG>What file system do you use?

At least for ext2 and reiserfs are resizing tools available (part of the reiserfs and ext2 progs). Read the man page for both.

But be warned, at least resize_reiserfs is optimized for enlarging your file system and not for making it smaller, though it may work nevertheless. For
resize2fs i do not know.
If you have important data on your file system I would backup them in ervery case

Bernd</STRONG>

what do you mean with file system?

maybe i'll better not make nother partition if there's a possibility to lose data.. :/

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by Nekopa:
<STRONG>I will just add my $0.02 on why I like slackware.

I have had Redhat and Mandrake up and running on my system before, and they worked fine, nice GUIs, config utils etc. But I found when something broke I was pretty much clueless on how to fix it. I was *using* Linux, but not really *learning* Linux. So I switched to Slack, and started learning the basics of Linux. So now I am starting to feel more comfortable with my system when something goes wrong.

Yes, it is a steeper learning curve, but that is what *I* like. I wanted to learn the ins and outs of Linux. And as for installing software, now I don't need to worry if there is a RPM, or a deb package for a certain piece of software, I am now getting more and more comfortable with source files, and how to read and edit config files, and it has opened up so much more software out there.

Now I know where to find needed librararies, where most of my config files go, what all that stuff in /dev is all about, what most of the kernel modules are for etc...

That is why Slackware is wonderful for me :D

Lee</STRONG>

that's why you like it and why it's too difficult for me ;) :D
i think i'll use my lm during some years and then see to switch or not

[Ludootje]

<STRONG>Ok, here's the deal with Slackware, good and bad, coming from a Slacker.

First, Slackware isn't a difficult distro to install. The difficulty depends only your computer background. The installation is simple. There are no 3d-buttons, no nice colors, no. Simple and straight to the point. To people who're used to Windows, this will seem to be difficult and hard to navigate. A little practice and you'll see that it's not. It also offers you full control over what you want. If you tell it not to install something, it won't install it (unlike some distro's I've tried).</STRONG>
i don't (think) i have that problem here, except that when i want to install some stuff wherefor other programs/libs/whatever are needed, it will install them
<STRONG> Contrary to popular belief, Slackware, does have some tool
s to set services up for you. Eg: netconfig, liloconfig, mouseconfig, fontconfig, etc... The installation will setup whatever it can for you. The default Slackware kernel also has framebuffer support, so if you say yes to framebuffer during installation, you don't even have to configure X. Type startx at the start and up comes X.</STRONG>
can't i start up with a login dialog?
also, can't i just put my *drake stuff on it? example: if i want to install userdrake, wont it work?
<STRONG> There is some reading required if you really want to get your system up and running. You'll find first of all that Slack doesn't have the latest and greatest software because the latest and greatest tend to have the latest and greatest security holes and stability problems. You can of course download and install the latest and greatest if you so wish. But a default Slack install will not contain software that has not been proven stable. Unfortunately, like most distros, Slackware also opens up a lot of useless services that the user needs to manually shut down, such as finger (why?).</STRONG>
i never understood what finger was for..
"download and install the latest and greatest" does slackware support rpm? or with what does it work? *.tar.gz?
<STRONG> Slackware does have a package manager, but no, it's not super advanced like RedHat's or Debian's. Some effort is being put into advancing it, but if you ask me, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything advanced until the Slack team gets a large group of people to help them out. Therefore upgrading Slackware can be quite a pain, but fortunately there's little need to upgrade because the base system is pretty stable.</STRONG>
what type of files does it install, that package manager? stuff from the slack cd's, or can it for example install *.deb/*.rpm/*.tar.gz/*.gz/... stuff?
<STRONG> Slackware uses BSD style init scripts, which I find to be easier to manage than SysV. If you're coming from a BSD background you'll probably find Slack to be friendlier.</STRONG>
i never saw bsd :)
what's the difference between bsd style init scripts and linux init scripts?
now a probably dumb - very - question: what's an init script? :confused:
<STRONG>
Slack 8.0 also offers you to create a reiserfs filesystem (you need to install by creating boot disks and not by booting from the CD) instead of the old (but proven) ext2.</STRONG>
if personally prefer booting from cds, isn't that possible at all?
<STRONG> So, is Slackware for you?

1. Do you like to tinker with stuff?</STRONG>
yeah, but i'm not advanced enough to do that, and i don't wanna blow up my linux :D
<STRONG> 2. Do you want to learn how to configure your system the way it was done before the GUIs came about?</STRONG>
yes, but here again, i know i don't have enough knowledge of linux to do that..
<STRONG> 3. Do you want to learn how Linux works from the inside?</STRONG>
same thing :o
<STRONG> 4. Do you want to be able to take part in Debian vs. Slackware wars?</STRONG>
:D
<STRONG> If you said yes to all of the above, get your local copy of Slack now and never look back. 'Coz a Slacker who looks back is shunned forever by Slackers! :eek:</STRONG>
will you hit me if i do go back :(? ;)


tnx for your time xconsole and everyone else

[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: Ludootje ]