KDE install wants to wipe out Gnome?

[wswartz]

After using FC2 for two weeks, I longed for the speed and stability of my FC1 install so I decided to go back :(

What I did like about FC2 was the look and feel of KDE 3.2 so I thought that I would load it up on my newly installed FC1. Being a total noob, I prefer to install things using Synaptic, apt, or yum. All of these have some dependancy issues but Synaptic (and thus, apt) seems like it wants to deinstall everything and anything that has to do with gnome and put KDE in it's place. Why can't they co-exist together like they did on my FC2 setup? Although I like the way KDE looks, there are some gnome applications I prefer like gedit. Do I really have to give up all of gnome to get KDE?

Thanks, BS

[wswartz]

Additional information:

This is the output from apt-get. Notice what it wants to remove. I'm sure I want to answer "Y" the question at the bottom!

[root@ibmt30 root]# apt-get install kde
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done

The following extra packages will be installed:
alsa-lib arts arts-devel freeglut hicolor-icon-theme jasper kde-menus
kdeaddons kdebase kdebase-devel kdelibs kdelibs-devel kdesdk kdesdk-devel
kdevelop libgnomecups libmad openoffice.org-i18n qt qt-designer qt-devel
redhat-artwork redhat-menus themer valgrind

The following packages will be upgraded
arts arts-devel kdeaddons kdebase kdebase-devel kdelibs kdelibs-devel kdesdk
kdesdk-devel kdevelop openoffice.org-i18n qt qt-designer qt-devel
redhat-artwork redhat-menus

The following packages will be REMOVED:
GConf GConf-devel GConf2 GConf2-devel Guppi Guppi-devel at-spi
authconfig-gtk bonobo bonobo-devel bug-buddy control-center desktop-printing
dia eel2 eel2-devel eog evolution file-roller firstboot freeciv gail
gail-devel gaim gal-devel gconf-editor gdk-pixbuf gdk-pixbuf-devel
gdk-pixbuf-gnome gdm gedit gftp ggv gimp gimp-print-plugin glade2
gnome-applets gnome-desktop gnome-desktop-devel gnome-games gnome-libs
gnome-libs-devel gnome-mag gnome-media gnome-panel gnome-pilot
gnome-pilot-devel gnome-print gnome-print-devel gnome-python2
gnome-python2-bonobo gnome-python2-canvas gnome-python2-gtkhtml2
gnome-session gnome-spell gnome-system-monitor gnome-terminal gnome-themes
gnome-utils gnome-vfs gnome-vfs-devel gnome-vfs-extras gnome-vfs2
gnome-vfs2-devel gnome-vfs2-extras gok gpdf gstreamer-plugins gthumb gtk+
gtk+-devel gtk-engines gtk2 gtk2-devel gtk2-engines gtkam gtkam-gimp gtkhtml
gtkhtml-devel gtkhtml2 gtkhtml3 gtksourceview gtkspell gtoaster hwbrowser
imlib imlib-devel kdeartwork kdegraphics kdegraphics-devel kdenetwork
kdenetwork-devel libbonoboui libbonoboui-devel libcapplet0 libcroco
libgail-gnome libgal2 libgal23 libglade libglade-devel libglade2
libglade2-devel libgnome libgnome-devel libgnomecanvas libgnomecanvas-devel
libgnomeprint15 libgnomeprintui libgnomeprintui22 libgnomeui
libgnomeui-devel libgsf libgsf-devel libmrproject librsvg2 librsvg2-devel
libwnck magicdev memprof metacity mozilla mozilla-mail mrproject mtr-gtk
nautilus nautilus-cd-burner nautilus-media nmap-frontend openoffice.org
openoffice.org-libs openssh-askpass-gnome pan printman pygtk2 pygtk2-devel
pygtk2-libglade redhat-config-bind redhat-config-boot redhat-config-httpd
redhat-config-kickstart redhat-config-language redhat-config-network
redhat-config-nfs redhat-config-packages redhat-config-printer-gui
redhat-config-proc redhat-config-rootpassword redhat-config-samba
redhat-config-securitylevel redhat-config-services redhat-config-soundcard
redhat-config-users redhat-config-xfree86 redhat-logviewer rhgb rhn-applet
rhythmbox sane-frontends sound-juicer switchdesk-gnome synaptic
up2date-gnome usermode-gtk vte xchat xmms xmms-skins xsane xsane-gimp
xscreensaver xsri yelp

The following NEW packages will be installed:
alsa-lib freeglut hicolor-icon-theme jasper kde kde-menus libgnomecups
libmad themer valgrind

16 upgraded, 10 newly installed, 173 removed and 55 not upgraded.
Need to get 146MB of archives.
After unpacking 445MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

[squeegy]

My guess is that you no longer have the repositories in your /etc/apt/sources.list with those packages in it.

[rocketpcguy]

this is SO unbelievable!!! like microsoft :)

you better get the KDE source code and install it from their. it is not so difficult, there are maybe lots of tutorials around. just install, using redhat-config-packages, all the development tools before compiling KDE.

[sharth]

what is in your sources.list

what is the output of apt-get -s dist-upgrade and apt-get -s upgrade and apt-get -s install gtk2

and its not that you have to give up all of gnome, its that gtk2 is getting removed (which gnome needs)

[wswartz]

Here is the information you requested. Should I go through with these upgrades? Or install KDE from source (I hesitate to do that understanding my "noob" status).

Thanks... BS
-------------------------------------------

Relevant lines from sources.list:

rpm http://ayo.freshrpms.net/ fedora/linux/1/i386 freshrpms
rpm http://ayo.freshrpms.net/ fedora/linux/1/i386 core updates freshrpms

(everything else is commented out)

...also this is in a file called "kde-sources.list" in the directory /etc/apt/sources.list.d:

## kde-redhat repository(s) for Red Hat RHREL (yes, *4* lines)
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ fedora/1 stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ fedora/all stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ kde-redhat/1 stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ kde-redhat/all stable

Output of apt-get -s dist-upgrade:
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Calculating Upgrade... Done
The following packages will be upgraded
ImageMagick PyQt PyQt-devel arts arts-devel autoconf automake automake14
automake16 cdda2wav cdrdao cdrecord cvs fam fam-devel fedora-logos gaim
ghostscript gimp gstreamer gstreamer-plugins gstreamer-tools gthumb gtk+
gtk+-devel gtk2 gtk2-devel htmlview httpd httpd-manual kdeaddons kdeadmin
kdeartwork kdebase kdebase-devel kdegames kdegraphics kdegraphics-devel
kdelibs kdelibs-devel kdemultimedia kdenetwork kdenetwork-devel kdepim
kdepim-devel kdesdk kdesdk-devel kdeutils kdeutils-devel kdevelop krb5-devel
krb5-libs libmusicbrainz libraw1394 mkisofs mod_ssl mozilla mozilla-mail
mozilla-nspr mozilla-nss nmap nmap-frontend openoffice.org
openoffice.org-i18n openoffice.org-libs pcre pcre-devel php php-imap
php-ldap qt qt-designer qt-devel redhat-artwork redhat-menus rhythmbox rsync
samba samba-client samba-common sip sip-devel squid strace vim-common
vim-enhanced vim-minimal vsftpd xinitrc xmms xscreensaver yum
The following NEW packages will be installed:
Hermes aalib alsa-lib flac freeglut fribidi hicolor-icon-theme id3lib jasper
kde-menus lame lcms libdvdcss libexif libfame libgnomecups libid3tag libmad
libmal libmusicbrainz20 lilo mathml-fonts openslp speex taglib themer trm
valgrind xine-lib xpdf xvidcore
92 upgraded, 31 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded.
Inst Hermes (1.3.3-2.fr Fedora Linux 2 Freshrpms:2/Fedora Linux Freshrpms)
...(a line like above for each of the packages listed for upgrade/install)
.
.
.
Conf Hermes (1.3.3-2.fr Fedora Linux 2 Freshrpms:2/Fedora Linux Freshrpms)
...(another set of lines for each of the packages listed for upgrade/install)


Output of apt-get -s upgrade
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages will be upgraded
ImageMagick autoconf automake automake14 automake16 cdda2wav cdrecord cvs
fam fam-devel gaim ghostscript gimp gstreamer gstreamer-tools htmlview httpd
httpd-manual krb5-devel krb5-libs libraw1394 mkisofs mod_ssl nmap
nmap-frontend pcre pcre-devel php php-imap php-ldap redhat-menus rsync samba
samba-client samba-common squid strace vim-common vim-enhanced vim-minimal
vsftpd xinitrc xmms xscreensaver yum
The following packages have been kept back
PyQt PyQt-devel arts arts-devel cdrdao fedora-logos gstreamer-plugins gthumb
gtk+ gtk+-devel gtk2 gtk2-devel kdeaddons kdeadmin kdeartwork kdebase
kdebase-devel kdegames kdegraphics kdegraphics-devel kdelibs kdelibs-devel
kdemultimedia kdenetwork kdenetwork-devel kdepim kdepim-devel kdesdk
kdesdk-devel kdeutils kdeutils-devel kdevelop libmusicbrainz mozilla
mozilla-mail mozilla-nspr mozilla-nss openoffice.org openoffice.org-i18n
openoffice.org-libs qt qt-designer qt-devel redhat-artwork rhythmbox sip
sip-devel
45 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 47 not upgraded.
Inst ImageMagick [5.5.6-5] (5.5.7.15-0.fdr.0.1 kde-redhat project:1/stable)
...(a line like above for each of the packages listed for upgrade)

Output of apt-get -s install gtk2
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
themer
The following packages will be upgraded
gtk2
The following NEW packages will be installed:
themer
1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 removed and 91 not upgraded.
Inst themer (0:1.50-0.fdr.0 kde-redhat project:all/stable)
Inst gtk2 [2.2.4-5.1] (2.2.4-6.fdr.2.1 kde-redhat project:1/stable)
Conf themer (0:1.50-0.fdr.0 kde-redhat project:all/stable)
Conf gtk2 (2.2.4-6.fdr.2.1 kde-redhat project:1/stable)

[sharth]

okay. I would recommend running "apt-get dist-upgrade".

if for some reason, it gives you some errors, run apt-get update, and then run apt-get -s dist-upgrade and see if you want to still upgrade (make sure its not removing anything important).

then run apt-get install kde again, and tell me what it says. Thanks.

[wswartz]

Well, I was going to write back with good news but it seems it's premature.

Yesterday I performed the "apt-get dist-upgrade". It upgraded me to KDE 3.2 and kept the gnome. In the process, gnome lost it's main menu; the only options left were to logout or run an application (other menus like Games, Office, Preferences, Settings, and System were wiped out). I wasn't too excited about this as long as the gnome apps were still available and it seemed they were. I logged in using KDE and everything looked good (menus were there, etc).

I thought things were good to go until this morning when I went to use my machine. Soon after begining the boot process, the screen goes blank, I get a graphical "X" cursor in the middle of the screen, and that's it. I can hit ALT-CTRL-F1 and get a text login and login as root but that's it. I booted and rebooted several times and eventually got it to boot into X windows. But when I load some programs (Mozilla, Synaptic), it thinks for a moment then does nothing. Trying these programs from the command line gives me "Segmentation Fault".

At this point I'm thinking about reloading the system all over again. This is my machine for work and with so many goofy things going on, I'm not comfortable with the way it's working.

If I do reload, is there a recommended way to get FC1 upgraded with KDE 3.2? Or should I just load FC1, apt-get KDE as suggested below?

BS

[sharth]

okay... not good. That wasn't expected...

Uhmm.... of all teh things i want to think of to wonder how this happened... I really have absolutly no clue...

I'd guess I'd go for the re-install.. unless someone else has a clue... which really sucks by the way (and is still really weird.)

My only other suggestion that comes to mind... upgrade everything to Fedora Core 2... since that should work out any weird libraries going crazy problems...

and it has KDE 3.2 as well.. (so I'd go for that being the simplest and safest solution...)

[wswartz]

Yes, quite strange. I would love to go to FC2 but as you will note in my original post, that's where I came from. FC2 was too slow and unstable for me to continue using it. I had a perfectly good working FC1 installation with KDE 3.2 loaded and running just fine (don't ask me how I got KDE 3.2 installed on it - I don't remember; but it also wiped out my gnome). I blindly formated and upgraded my system thinking that FC2 must be better than FC1; I was mistaken. Now I long for my old, stable FC1 and I'm having trouble going back.

Maybe after this reload I'll just forget about gnome and install KDE 3.2 like apt/synaptic wanted to do all along...(?)

Thanks,
BS

[rocketpcguy]

most review sites say fedora 2 is much faster than 1?? why?? is it true?

[wswartz]

Well, I got my FC1 reloaded and KDE working fine along with Gnome. Here are the steps I used with this install.

- Install base FC1 with the packaged Gnome and KDE
- Upgraded the kernel to 2.4.22-1.2188.nptl
- Install apt and Synaptic
- Using Synaptic, I upgraded everything (I didn't do that last time - I think this was the difference). Used repository:
rpm http://ayo.freshrpms.net fedora/linux/1/i386 core updates freshrpms
- Upgraded KDE using repositories:
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ fedora/1 stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ fedora/all stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ kde-redhat/1 stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/ kde-redhat/all stable

This time, KDE didn't insist on deleting anything and seems to have loaded fine.

Regarding the last post about FC2, here's my experience. I've successfully converted to Linux as my primary OS for work about 9 mos. ago. Unfortunately, there are some things I need Windows for. For this, I use VMware with Win2K as a guest. With this, here are the issues I had.

- First, I had to load a special driver to get my laptop's touchpad to work.
- After I got that to work, my external mouse wouldn't work so I had to monkey with xorg files (which I was very new to).
- In addition to the mouse, my external monitor wouldn't work which required more xorg config (and more time away from my job).
- After I sorta got things working, VMware barked because it didn't like the new 2.6 kernel. It loaded and worked though. However, it was noticeably slower than when running under FC1.
- Other applications were also much slower than FC1.

I do plan on upgrading to FC2 but I'll wait until it's much more mature.

BS