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Hello everyone.
Does anyone know how Linux's support for multiple processors is? I'm thinking of setting up a box with dual AMD processors, and I'm trying to figure out which OS to run on it. Win 95 and 98 are out of the question so I'm looking at any of the Linux versions, any of the free Unix versions or Win 2000 and up.
Joe
Well SMP with intel processors works just fine on my computer. I'm using dual P4 at my box and theres been no problems. I'm not quite sure however is smp purely for intel processors or is it for all x86 type of processors currently. You do need to recompile kernel with smp enabled atleast.
I suggest you take a look in linuxdocs HOW-To at least on SMP (http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/SMP-HOWTO.html) and Parallel Processing (http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Parallel-Processing-HOWTO.html). They both have some information about linux SMP. However the Parallel processing is from 1998 and SMP is form 2000, so they might have old information on them. So i suggest that you also do a google search on the subject.
Originally posted by Hena:
<STRONG>Well SMP with intel processors works just fine on my computer. I'm using dual P4 at my box and theres been no problems. I'm not quite sure however is smp purely for intel processors or is it for all x86 type of processors currently. You do need to recompile kernel with smp enabled atleast.
I suggest you take a look in linuxdocs HOW-To at least on SMP (http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/SMP-HOWTO.html) and Parallel Processing (http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Parallel-Processing-HOWTO.html). They both have some information about linux SMP. However the Parallel processing is from 1998 and SMP is form 2000, so they might have old information on them. So i suggest that you also do a google search on the subject.</STRONG>
Thanks a lot.
The links were very helpful.
Joe
I've just looked at the HCL for RedHat and they don't support AMD Athlon motherboards due to the cutting edge technology used, and since I'm not a programmer I can't do anything to setup Linux for AMD so unfortunately if FreeBSD doesn't support AMD SMP then I'm going to have to go with Windows.
Thanks anyway.
Joe
chadm1967
11-29-2001, 07:50 PM
Actually, Linux has some of the best support out there for SMP. We have 6 dual processor servers running Red Hat 7.2 at work. They run flawlessly.
Originally posted by chadm1967:
<STRONG>Actually, Linux has some of the best support out there for SMP. We have 6 dual processor servers running Red Hat 7.2 at work. They run flawlessly.</STRONG>
Yes, as long as you're using a motherboard for Intel processors you're ok (they say that they can theoretically support up to six processors at once, but unfortunately that support doesn't exist for SMP motherboards for the AMD Athlon processors.
Joe
otheos
11-29-2001, 08:13 PM
I run the TigerMP with dual MP 1500+ with RH7.2
The system runs out of the box with the stock kernel just fine. SMP protocol is based on intel's MP1.1/1.4 specs that the Athlon platform follows.
Don't mix the protocol with the architecture. The Athlon MP system uses Alpha's EV6 architecture that allowes each CPU to use the bus freelly (no sharing like intel) and performance along with the powerfull fpu unit of the athlon is superior to anything offered by intel (please no flameing, I only express my opinion based on tests we have performed and the XP 1500 scales to 1.46 P4 2G for integer, and 2.26 for fpu).
Now ideally you'd want to recompile the kernel since the stock kernel is optimised for intel p3. You can use a config file in /usr/src/linux/config that is prepared for Athlon SMP platforms, and either customise it or leave as is (but use the initrd that is used for the stock smp kernel booting).
Linux is making better use of SMP than WinNT/2K/XPPro due to the true multithread/task architecture in the kernel. You will notice that the performance increase from one to two CPU's in linux is much more evident that in windows.
So, SMP, be it AMD or intel works fine under any 2.4 kernel (I presume 2.2 as well but don't see why you'd want to use 2.2 kernels). Same goes for BSD OS's.
Enjoy.
Thanks Otheos, you've re-inspired me to use Linux. :-) I'm planning on using the Tyan Thunder K7 with the SCSI option and 2 AMD 1800+s , any info on how Linux handles that one?
Joe
slacker_x
11-30-2001, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by José:
<STRONG>Thanks Otheos, you've re-inspired me to use Linux. :-) I'm planning on using the Tyan Thunder K7 with the SCSI option and 2 AMD 1800+s , any info on how Linux handles that one?
Joe</STRONG>
Sounds like someone has money to burn!
If it doesn't work, you can send it to me.
:D
What do you need a machine like that for? You are running Linux, so it's obviously not for games.
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: slacker_x ]
otheos
11-30-2001, 04:56 AM
What do you need a machine like that for? You are running Linux, so it's obviously not for games.
erm, sorry but games are collateral to PC usage. Have you ever heard of a workstation? A computer that is used for sience/engineering or multimedia/3d rendering? You need a lot of computing power to use for number crunching and high bandwidth storage for the vast amount of data produced read/written. These systems are not meand for home use where even a Celeron 333 with a GF2 and a 5400rpm IDE drive will do just fine for 90% of the users. If you need to run simulatios/models every second counts (since you typically run for 100hours). Same for heavy programming/compiling systems. Video editing is another demaning process that requires a high end storage subsystem. Some require 80MB/s minimum STR, you think a single processor box can keep up with this demand and at the same time hold itself for rendering data? Lets not level everything to home use, please.
The thunder will work just great with linux, actually we have a few thunder based boxes. I still prefer the tigerMP due to its simple power supply spec. Unless you need to build a 1U box, the Tiger with an LSI based SCSI card will perform just as well and a fraction of the price and with a standard 400W ATX PSU. You can add 2-3 as many nics or use Gigabit if required.
ph34r
11-30-2001, 11:59 AM
Gee, I play games just fine on my SMP Linux box. Quake2, Quake3, Unreal Tourney, Heavy Gear II, Descent 3d, SoF, etc....
Frank Taplin
11-30-2001, 05:19 PM
Yes, as long as you're using a motherboard for Intel processors you're ok (they say that they can theoretically support up to six processors at once, but unfortunately that support doesn't exist for SMP motherboards for the AMD Athlon processors
When it's talking about Intel processors it's talking about processores based on the Intel x86 design. This includes both AMD and cyrix processors since they were originally based on that architecture. They just say Intel since they came up with the design first. That's to distinguish that type from the Alpha and Motorola processor architectures.
So when they say it has Intel support it usually means it has AMD support also.
Frank
Originally posted by Frank Taplin:
<STRONG>
When it's talking about Intel processors it's talking about processores based on the Intel x86 design. This includes both AMD and cyrix processors since they were originally based on that architecture. They just say Intel since they came up with the design first. That's to distinguish that type from the Alpha and Motorola processor architectures.
So when they say it has Intel support it usually means it has AMD support also.
Frank</STRONG>
Hi Frank, What I read was not in regards to the processor, it was in regards to the motherboards. RedHat's Hardware Compatability List shows motherboards for AMD SMP under their incompatible motherboards list, their explanation is as follows "AMD Athlon compatible motherboards. The new motherboard architecture being used and the cutting edge technology often implimented in the chipsets can create problems during the installation. Red Hat Linux may or may not install properly on a Athlon compatible motherboard according to its components.". The rest of the list can be found at
RedHat HCL (http://www.redhat.com/support/hardware/intel/62/rh6.2-hcl-i.ld-2.html) .
I believe that Linux 7.2 is probably compatible with the board to some extent but you can see how this might cause doubts, also, when I read the manual for the motherboard at "page 8" under "OS" it only has Windows NT/2000.Tyan (http://www.tyan.com)
I'm putting the box together as a powerful workstation that will require a really long time before it becomes unable to handle what technology has to put out. The key here is to have as many options as possible with my next computer purchase. (Get this, I'm currently running a regular Pentium 200 MHz) Later on I'm going to be running a bunch of servers on this box including a webserver, Linux telnet accounts for members of a computer services company that I plan on opening up later on, and a network of four or five other computers.
I don't have money to burn contrary to what it seems, but I decided that I was tired of what computer stores were putting together as they almost always give you something crappy so that you're great box isn't as expensive as it should be. I want my next computer purchase to be the highest quality possible even if it's going to cost me a great deal more now, I believe that the extra expense will be worth it for me in the long run. I'm not even going to be able to purchase the whole thing at once. I'm going to initially purchase the MB, full tower with special 400W power supply, 1 stick of 512MB ECC DDR SDRAM, two AMD 1800+ Athlon processors with OEM fans and that's about it. The initial purchase will run me about $2300 Canadian after taxes at a nice shop that I know here in Toronto, that has the best prices on everything so far. I'm going to have to save up to buy the large SCSI hard drive, a CDROM, CDBurner, a floppy, keyboard, and hopefully a nice trackball rather than a mouse, or one of those mice that has a trackball at your thumb, think they're made by logitech. Don't forget the monitor, I'm going for the largest high quality one that I can find and afford. :-)
Please excuse my "rant and rave" but I've never had a system that I was this proud of before.
Thanks for listening.
Joe
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: José ]
mangeli
11-30-2001, 11:29 PM
Don't use redhat. Its that easy. Besides, you have to compile a kernel once you're up and running in order to enable SMP.
Go with Slackware.
I haven't heard of any problems with Slack and SMP on AMD or Intel Dual's.
Runs like a dream, not a nightmare.
If you are a new to linux, i'm not quite sure it good to start with slack. So far i have used RH and had only a two problems, where i couldn't work around them (one was stupid RPM install, using switch force, of KDE and other was migration of linux from from one disk to another, that was eventually killed by 2.4.15 kernel). One annoying thing however is that RH uses ext2 (7.2 uses ext3?) by default and does not give choice to use reiserfs on clean install, which seems to be better than ext versions.
I can't really see why distro would matter on support to different drivers, since they all seem to come from kernel or as tarballs (or even RPMs). And as far as recompiling kernel in RH, i've always used tarball version and almost latest kernels (currently 2.4.15-pre1, since 2.4.15 sucks the filesystems). If you are going to use RH on your machine, i suggest you get Securing and Optimizing Linux Red Hat Edition (http://www.linuxdoc.org/guides.html#securing_linux). It has helped me a lot on RH7.1. Also if you are going to offer telnet like services, use ssh instead (like OpenSSH (http://www.openssh.org) or official version of ssh from F-Secure (http://www.f-secure.com)).
Good luck to getting your box to up and running whichever distro you decide to go with :)
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Hena ]
Yes, you're correct, I should use SSH instead of regular Telnet, I totally forgot about that.
Thanks
Joe
otheos
12-01-2001, 08:24 PM
Don't use redhat. Its that easy. Besides, you have to compile a kernel once you're up and running in order to enable SMP
Where do you come up with such inaccurate info? This is ridiculous! If you don't know about it, don't talk about it!
During install you just click to specify individual packages and select the smp kernel as well. Even if you don't do it it'll pick it up and install it itself. And that's for redhat/suse/mandrake/slackware/debian.
slacker_x
12-01-2001, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by otheos:
<STRONG>erm, sorry but games are collateral to PC usage. Have you ever heard of a workstation? A computer that is used for sience/engineering or multimedia/3d rendering? You need a lot of computing power to use for number crunching and high bandwidth storage for the vast amount of data produced read/written. These systems are not meand for home use where even a Celeron 333 with a GF2 and a 5400rpm IDE drive will do just fine for 90% of the users. If you need to run simulatios/models every second counts (since you typically run for 100hours). Same for heavy programming/compiling systems. Video editing is another demaning process that requires a high end storage subsystem. Some require 80MB/s minimum STR, you think a single processor box can keep up with this demand and at the same time hold itself for rendering data? Lets not level everything to home use, please.
The thunder will work just great with linux, actually we have a few thunder based boxes. I still prefer the tigerMP due to its simple power supply spec. Unless you need to build a 1U box, the Tiger with an LSI based SCSI card will perform just as well and a fraction of the price and with a standard 400W ATX PSU. You can add 2-3 as many nics or use Gigabit if required.</STRONG>
I realize that 3D graphics work, comiling software and complex scientific applications might make use of a computer like this. If you read the original question, it is written in a way that makes me wonder whether a system like this would be required. Most people who are doing complex computing already know which OS they have to use.
With regards to my comment about gaming on Linux: I am saying that if you were going to make a dedicated gaming box, linux would be a poor choice for the OS since it doesn't have very many big name titles.
Keyser Soze
12-03-2001, 02:54 AM
Ignorance runs rampant......
Yes, out of the box, no recompiling necessary, most distros will recognize and configure for dual or more processors. Yes AMD SMP is supported, got one right beside me. And yes, you will see a difference if the app uses more than one processor. vast differences. Assigning tasks to separate processors is also a way to go, though I have only done it with unix so far.
Originally posted by Keyser Soze:
<STRONG>Ignorance runs rampant......
Yes, out of the box, no recompiling necessary, most distros will recognize and configure for dual or more processors. Yes AMD SMP is supported, got one right beside me. And yes, you will see a difference if the app uses more than one processor. vast differences. Assigning tasks to separate processors is also a way to go, though I have only done it with unix so far.</STRONG>
Perhaps you should call RedHat and let them know about it. Their answer to the question is that you may encounter problems when installing on an AMD motherboard. RedHat is knowledgeable enough about their system that it most likely isn't an uninformed opinion, rather it's a professional opinion, most likely based on a bunch of installations rather than a single one like yourself. Where then does ignorance run rampant? Does it run rampant in the answer based on more than one installation, or is it in the answer that claims that something is true because it happened once? ;)
Joe
stiles
12-03-2001, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by José:
<STRONG>The rest of the list can be found at
RedHat HCL (http://www.redhat.com/support/hardware/intel/62/rh6.2-hcl-i.ld-2.html) .
</STRONG>
You do relize that the RH6.2 HCL hasn't been updated sence Sept. 8 2000?
deadlock
12-04-2001, 08:32 AM
RedHat no longer maintain an actual list of compatible hardware, but have a searchable database (http://hardware.redhat.com) instead.
Keyser Soze
12-04-2001, 08:36 AM
Perhaps you have not been here long enough to know my profession. But I would hardly call my rollouts single or individual. IT DOES WORK. Just because something is not supported does not mean it doesn't work, it just means it doesn't work 100% of the time. And one cut deserves another, so I am assuming it is USER ERROR. ;)
Originally posted by Keyser Soze:
<STRONG>Perhaps you have not been here long enough to know my profession. But I would hardly call my rollouts single or individual. IT DOES WORK. Just because something is not supported does not mean it doesn't work, it just means it doesn't work 100% of the time. And one cut deserves another, so I am assuming it is USER ERROR. ;)</STRONG>
Good one. ;)
I agree that if something isn't supported it doesn't mean that it doesn't work. The only times I've installed Linux I've succeeded, and I haven't tried to install it on my new system yet so no user error as of yet, but I'll be sure to let you know if it happens, they say that people are living longer nowadays. :)
In regards to your comment on your profession, I do not know what you do, and you do not know what I do, nor are either relevant to the issue in this instance. You're post referred to one computer and even if you were the great god of computers (you can't be that position is taken :) ) your logic that because you had managed to install RedHat on your system so would all others who tried it is deeply flawed and I couldn't help but to point that out. It is clear to me that you have other experience that you bring into your comments but you cannot make a comment like "ignorance abounds" and not expect some sort of response.
Anyway, I'll let you know how my attempt at installing Linux works.
Joe