Modem - Homechoice

[wildgoose1uk]

My isp is Homechoice who also provide a video on demand service through the same connection. I just cannot get it to work under Mandrake 10.

It is a weird setup in that under windows, a;though it is a broadband connection you confirgure it as if it were a dial up modem. I have no idea why but it works!

Does anyone have any ideas what I can do to make it work? If you could point me to a driver that would be good too.

thx in advance.

[XiaoKJ]

Is your connection based on adsl?

Its very common for dsl users to need to dial for an account -- its a ritual for dsl users, just that you will never experience busy signals, carrier problems and you dial nothing to get the connection.

may we know the modem you have? if its alcatel speedtouch usb modem its very well-known and notorious, so much that it is already supported by linux in the kernel -- imagine this junk support in the kernel...:D

if its an ethernet one you probably have some ethernet card in your computer that has to be configured first, before you can use it with roaring penguin's PPPoE(Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet) and issue adsl-setup and adsl-start to go online.

The ethernet adsl modem seems to be more troublesome but in reality it is less troublesome as you will not need to compile the drivers for the usb modem....

Hope this clarifies the bizzare behavior of the modem and you can continue by telling us how you connect in windows and the modem you have.

[wildgoose1uk]

Strange as it may seem I do not actually know the modem I have. It was a largeish (prob a little bit less than A4) beige box that was supplied by BT when they converted the line (in the days before the diy kits).

In windows I configure it as a dial up connection and install the supplied drivers. I am a complete newbie to linux and have done no programming since the days when I played with commodore basic and bbc basic a long long time ago.

connection:

adsl socket
lead to modem
lead from modem to homechoice (www.homechoice.co.uk) box
lead out from modem (RH45?) towards puter
conversion box with blue flashing led (when connected) that converts lead to usb
usb lead from convertor box to puter

To install in windows:

I feed the puter the biscuit and drivers are installed
I plug i the usb lead
xp detects it and does the rest

I have no idea whatsoever about compiling etc so if i need to do that... well.. I will have to have several sharp intakes of breath at the very least!!

[XiaoKJ]

USB???....

its mostly junk....but if there is an ethernet lead from the modem you are in luck.

it is very emminent now that you have a modem configuration similar to mine -- you need to dial-up to get online...

using usb, this setup is called PPPoA(Point-to-Point Protocol over ATM[which is Asynchronous Transfer Mode]) which is actually an adsl modem dialling-up over regular phone lines and having cell form instead of the regular packet form in ethernet networks

using ethernet, it is almost definitely PPPoE which is ditto above just that it uses packets and is over the ethernet line. I suppose the modem you have may jolly well convert the PPPoE to PPPoA and vice versa for you.

Its best to use the Ethernet interface though, as it will not use system resources and it is OS independant -- and you will be able to use it anywhere!

I think you may need to get an ethernet modem...

Firstly, does you modem look like a stingray? if it does, its alcatel speedtouch usb.... and you are in luck... if not you may have to use some money.

BTW, you use the special phone lines not used worldwide, you may even find trouble buying a suitabe modem... be on your guard!

[banzaikai]

Howdy.

May I make a suggestion?

Spend the extra quid - errr, Euros - and get a ROUTER!

Yes, I know you're only using one computer, but here's what'll happen:

+ The router will be the go-between for the computer/modem. When you configure the router for adsl, you also tell it to auto-dial on-demand. This means the router does all the work, and the computer doesn't have to worry about drivers.

+ The router will then give you an IP using an internal DHCP table, so you don't have to worry about ipconfig, either.

+ Most routers have some kind of firewall built-in.

+ When, not if, you get your next Linux box running, you have a spot to jack into.

+ Routers also come in wireless (802.11 a/b/g) versions, and even offer print servers (like the D-Link DI-714P). This allows you to connect your printer to the network without having to have a PC running all the time to act as the server. Don't underestimate the value of this - my Uncle is now shopping for such a server because his router didn't have one (he didn't think he would ever need one, but two printers and a laptop later and...).

Everyone I talk to about setting up broadband (cable/adsl) gets this very same speech. Most routers on this side of the pond cost as much as a month of service, so I recommend buying a router and waiting a month to offset the cost, then go for it.

banzai "route this" kai

[XiaoKJ]

The problem is that he's using a usb modem now.

a router will not work well with usb modem as it is not supported and is clumbersome(to make and use)

if he has a combo(usb + ethernet) modem then he's in luck, but if he hasn't he must buy one.

in the latter case I would suggest he buy it all in one.(or get an old computer that is probably thrown away and set it up as a router[not applicable for usb again])

[XiaoKJ]

wildgoose1uk, you actually have an combo modem -- it connects to your pc by either usb or ethernet.

if you have an ethernet card, change your connection to it now. you can easily add a router to the configuration later.

try not to use usb -- its not well supported and its almost useless -- it even uses some of your CPU cycles. its slow and everything. get a NIC for $10 and you will be using ethernet happily.

and you can use linux with the ethernet version -- its just renamed from PPPoA to PPPoE.

please post us to tell us when you are ready to configure your linux system to use the modem.

its best to get the router though...:D

[wildgoose1uk]

Thanks for the info. If I read you guys right then if I get a router all my problems will be solved. Dabs.com have an offer on a NetGear DG834G Wireless ADSL at the moment. Any comments on it?

Also I need to be sure I am not going to mess up my tv service as well. Currently the modem has a lead going to the Homechoice box. The box then has two leads, one going to the tvand one to the puter. On the one to the puter there is a junction box on the end and this is where it gets converted to usb cable and the usb cable goes to the puter.

On installation Mandrake picked up an ethernet card so I guess I must have one... will need to look and see if there are any sockets for it (rj45?) when I get home.

Do I just either replace the modem with a wireless modem/router or if only a router the put the router between the modem and the homechoice box?

If not wireless do I keep the leads coming from the homechoice box to the puter?

Is the easiest workable solution ot get the NetGear DG834G Wireless ADSL gor from dabs at 100 squid and set it up in place of the old modem, have the lead from the router to the homechoice box and the wireless connection direct from the router to my desktop and laptop?

Will I then be able to get a print server, plug it into the back of the printer and it will pretty much configure itself?

Can I de sure this won't affect the tv service (kids would kill me!)

Thx for all the help - appreciated.

[XiaoKJ]

Unfortuanately I think the netgear isn't for you.

there is something we really must know -- is there ethernet connectivity for the modem you already have? ethernet cables are mostly RJ-45 which is a big square plug. its very similar to phone lines outside of UK.

if your modem already has one, its not sensible to use the netgear anyway -- the model you targeted will send the modem you have to cold dungeons and leave it there for eternity...

seems like you already have the NIC, and you should really check the back of your computer for the RJ45 plug -- again, its a big squareish hole...:D

if you have no more computers its not sensible to get wireless too -- wireless is for two or more computers placed a considerable distant apart or that they are laptops. its not economical to do wireless for one computer in which you still have to get a wireless card for your computer anyway (wireless cards aren't as cheap and reliable and fast as NICs)

I would get a cheap router(about US$25 which is little compared in UK where the pound is so big) and stick it between your modem and computer. if your modem doesn't have ethernet output then get an upgrade....:D

if your modem has ethernet connection, then you will not need to worry about the tv service. I would not even need the router if it has, but for security sake, get it...

BTW, please do not ditch linux -- you can't expect things DESIGNED for windows with included windows drivers to work in linux. its not a fair comparison as the linux community has to make the drivers without help from these companies that are just plain lousy not to include linux drivers.

[wildgoose1uk]

Ok, time for an update.

The modem has 3 sockets, one labelled ethernet, one AT something and the other was either unlabelled or may have been dsl. 2 of these look like the rj45 plug type but only one is labelled ethernet and it is unused. One of the others is the connection to the phone socket and the final one is the lead that goes to the set-top box.

All the following relates to my laptop running xp (because I know the internet connection works)

First, I took out the usb lead to the laptop and unhokked it from the junction box that converts it to usb. I put the squarish plug that looks like an oversized modem connector (RJ45?) and plugged it into the laptop.

No connection

Second I took the other ed of the lead and unplugged it from the set top box and plugged it directly into the ethernet socket on the modem.

I got a reading of 10mbps and the laptop was sending and receiving data of some sort but still no internet.

I had a look around the settings on the laptop but found nothing obvious (to me!)that needed to be done to make it work.

I just had the feeling it should have worked right away. Would getting a router make the difference?

I did not have too much time to play because I am working quite long hours at the moment and whenI got home the family were using the net.

Have no fear about me giving up on linux, now I have found it I like it and intend to keep it. Although if I can get xp to work ont he desktop it may be as a dual boot system so my kids can play their games! I don't expect it to be as easy as windows is currently. I fact until win98 windows wasn't as easy as windows is currently and pre win95 the mac definately had the upper hand.

We have three pc's in the house, 2 desktops (front room and kids bedroom) and one laptop so wireless could be a consideration. Don't want to spend too much money just now though as Homechoice tell me they are in the process of upgrading their equipment at the telephone exchange and when they do they will be using one ethernet box instead of the current two boxes. They say this will be in the next few months..... not holding my breath though!!!

The cheapest routers I have been able to find are around £35-£40... is there a better place to get them. They look cheaper in Europe but I don't know any suppliers.

What did I miss last night that would have got me up on the net?

[wildgoose1uk]

Just a small point. It doesn't have to be an RJ45 plug into the phone socket does it?

[banzaikai]

Okay, from what I've been able to research:

That little box between the modem and computer is a SERIAL (DB-9) to USB converter. One of the articles I found was how to hook up a Mac to HomeChoice, and they stated it was a 115200 baud connection.

Still don't know what the ATM line is for...

The other leads are for the telly-on-demand, and have no bearing on the computer part.

So, this means the router idea is out, either a store-bought box or roll-your-own Linux variety.

However, you can use Internet Connection Sharing (Proxy). All instructions are here: http://www.maxuk.net/hc/faq.html
Or, you could just hook the serial (comX / ttySx) straight to the modem, bypassing the usb, setting everything to /dev/ttySx, and setup as outlined on the above link.

You mentioned that they'd be converting you over to something newer - I'd bet that IS the ethernet version.

And thr RJ series of connectors was designed by Bell/AT&T for quicker connections and setup of equipment. The tiny ones for the handset are RJ-8, the single, dual, and three-line are RJ-11/12 (Cat-3), and the 4-line is the venerable RJ-45, also used for UTP Cat-5/5e/6 ethernet. So, yes, you can use it to hook up phone lines, but only if you have four lines running through the house. More often, you'll be using the RJ-11/12s.

You Brits may have better telly, but we Yanks rule when it comes to broadband... :D

banzai "AbFab" kai

[XiaoKJ]

The problem is that wildgoose1uk is using BT's service in UK, which doesn't use the regular RJ-11s

We have to make sure he knows what is the RJs!

Why not, wildgoose1uk, get a new router, ethernet adsl modem combo in UK and make sure you can use it!

[wildgoose1uk]

The problem with the Homechoice Faqs is that they have not been updated for a few years. The connection is now 1mb and it is a different set top box.

I have tried a 2 or 3 different methods gleaned from the homechoice faqs and user groups but have not been able to make them work.

If I got the modem/router can I be sure it will work? I am not that much of a techie when it comes to video on demand. Would it work if I just got a router and installed it between the modem and the set-top box?

[banzaikai]

I'm guessing not.

Essentially, the carrier signal needs to be processed (modem) to receive the data, which is sent as packets (router) to the clients. So, the router is between the modem and computer. On cable systems, the modem just "plucks" the channel off the cable, so there is no set-top box to deal with. So:

HCsignal --> TVbox --> Modem --> Computer

would have to be set like this:

HCsignal --> TVbox --> Modem --> Router --> Computer(s)

Again, the problem lies in having the router work with the modem/adaptor, and most off-the-shelf routers (from Evesham and the like) work with either dsl/adsl or cable (docsis?). This typically requires having an ethernet/RJ45 line out to the router. Head to jaysafe ( http://www.jaysafe.co.uk/technical/rj45.asp ) to view the connector wiring, or go to HwB ( http://www.hardwarebook.net ) to find all kinds of connectors, so that we can find out what this is (post the model # of your modem).

banzai "pinout" kai

[wildgoose1uk]

I'll have a look at the modem tonight and post the model number.

Just one point is that the connection goes like this:

HC signal --> modem --> set-top box --> puter
--> tv

Not sure it makes any difference though.

[wildgoose1uk]

The modem is a Westell A90 supplied by BT

[banzaikai]

Nothing is ever easy...

It seems Westell makes variants of the A90 series - some have routers, some don't. Are there any other numbers after the A90 (31MA228, 210030-04, etc.)?

All I need is a diagram or manual (even a pdf would help) to solve this.

Try to ping/access it at 10.0.0.1 or 192.168.0.1 - if you have a modem-only, you'll get something at 10.0.0.1, the router version answers at the 192 address. From your last diagram, it looks as if the modem may well have a router, which then splits out to set-top box and computer. The forum likes to edit out spaces and tabs, so I'm not sure where the tv was supposed to go in all that. I'm thinking the set-top box acts as a hub to send one lead to the telly, the other to the computer.

banzai "it'd be cheaper for us to run a cable from this side of the pond" kai

[unprinted]

Late reply, but you need

http://www.epiphany.homechoice.co.uk/HomeChoice/

for the details of what scripts to use with the 'like a VHS video on its side' 1M HC set top box - you start speaking to it at one speed, then it speeds up.

Exactly what you do to get Linux to recognise that it has a new networking device is, I'm afraid, beyond me. I could do the old 112k service - that looked like a normal modem to the PC - but not this one.

However the new STB. the one that's in the current ads, works differently. It doesn't need an external modem, for example, and the spec for the PC now includes wanting an ethernet port (it's so tempting to present them with a 10-baseT one...). Mine should have been installed about a fortnight ago, but they rescheduled to the next week or two.

[retsaw]

My brother got Homechoice installed a few months ago and it used an ethernet connection with a Realtek usb-ethernet adapter to connected to the computer, though my brother may have got the usb-ethernet adapter as his computer didn't have an ethernet port. When I tried Knoppix on his PC I was surprised to find that it detected the adapter and inernet connection without a problem. He got a new PC recently and I switched from the usb adapter to the new PC's internal ethernet, which gave me a minor problem of having to clone the MAC address of the old adapter before it would work.

I thought I'd share this as it may help anyone looking to use Homechoice with linux.

[unprinted]

Yep, they've moved to using much more standard kit, certainly as far as the user's PC is concerned.

Hmm, that's interesting - I wonder why the HC box expected you to never change network card.