DeLi Linux -- a distro for aging Pentiums and your doorstop 486

[psi42]

I ran across this little jewel a little while ago.

http://delilinux.berlios.de/



It's designed for 486s up through Pentium 166s.

Based on Slackware 7.1, with XFree86 3.3.6 :)

A full install is < 300 MB, and that includes a lot of stuff.

The test machine for that distro is a 486 with 16 MB of RAM. If a program doesn't run well on that thing it gets thrown out.....

I don't have a 486 to test it on, but it does scream on my P133..... a few tweaks in IceWM and it looks a lot better too. :)

Now if only I could take 20 years off the looks of Pathetic Writer. :D

~psi42



I have posted a screenshot and some other good stuff later in this thread (page 2).

--------------------------------
Rudimentary DeLi Install Guide:

Note: Installing DeLi requires you to be reasonably familiar with Linux (not afraid of the command line).

1) Boot from your DeLi CD. If you can't boot from a CD-ROM, you'll have to create floppies from the images available with DeLi, and then access the files from those floppies.

2) Log in. Run cfdisk and create your partitions.

3) Run deliinstall
OR
Mount your partition, uncompress delibase.tgz onto it, chroot to the new partition, and run delisetup

While running delisetup, you will be asked what partition you will want to use as /. You have already been asked this question in deliinstall or implicitly answered it when you untarred files onto it. This is OK, just answer the same as before.

4) Boot into your new DeLi install. You can now run delisetup again, and be able to select from many more options. Run delihelp and soak up some good information

5) Edit /etc/fstab and add entries for your other devices and drives

5) Mount the deli cdrom, and install the packages you want from inside the deli directory on the disc. You can also install them from within delisetup.

6) Load any necessary modules. Utilize /etc/rc.d/rc.modules. If you have a proprietary CD-ROM, be sure to set up rc.modules to load the proper module at boot time.

7) chmod -x scripts in /etc/rc.d that you do not want to run on bootup

8) Set up the X Window system. There are multiple ways to do this. Delisetup has options to set up a framebuffer X or run XF86Setup. You can also run xf86config, which is text mode but asks the same questions as XF86Setup and IMHO is much more straightforward.

9) Run xwmconfig and select your windowmanager.

10) If you find that delete, home, and end are all producing tildes in X and not working, edit $HOME/.inputrc and remove the following lines surrounding the block at the bottom

$ if term=linux
$endif

which will tell bash to ALWAYS map the escape sequences produced by del, home, and end to the right actions. ( $TERM is only linux on a "real" virtual terminal. )


That will get you up and running. Tweak the system and enjoy the speed.


End Rudimentary DeLi Install Guide
--------------------------------

[gehidore]

why thank you ive been looking for somethin like this for me old laptop only a p1 233 but its slower than my compaq 75mhz 486

[DSwain]

Thank you for sharing your good find it looks like. I tried old copies of Red Hat, Mandrake, etc on my 166mhz laptop, so i'm hoping this comes as a nice change for it. the mainstream distro's, even the older versions (i tried Red Hat 6.2, sheesh) ran poorly so we'll see how this one does. Downloading it now, along with Linspire 4.5 and Gentoo install. Oh yeah, how did you get the 2.6.5 kernel from Portage btw gehidore?

As for DeLi looks, the default screens don't look too bad at all. For some reason I kinda like the old feel of things a bit more than the newer ones. Also, the package selection is pretty impressive looking for a 300mb installation. I hope I'll be satisfied. And if it autodetects my Linksys 10/100 CardBus PC Card, well then we've struck gold.

[gehidore]

no i didnt i got it from kernel.org but it works without a hitch (if you read my post error emerge alsa-driver)

if you follow this guide its easy to do it...

gentoo handbook <kernel chapter> (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=7)

BTW it only took 7 minutes to download that from their local ftp im gonna burn it and put it on the laptop

ill report back like a good little Luser and tell you how it worked

[DSwain]

well i know how to emerge a kernel and configure it and those things, but what did you type to emerge the 2.6.5 kernel? i do emerge development-sources and i get the 2.6.4 kernel.

also sounds good, i'm hoping this distro runs well on my laptop also.

[gehidore]

i just went over to kernel.org and downloaded the 2.6.5 kernel (ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.5.tar.bz2)

untared it in /usr/src
did rm /usr/src/linux && ln -s /usr/src/linux-2.6.5 /usr/src/linux
cd'd into linux
typed make xconfig (with fluxbox and aterm)
configured the kernel for my system
saved the .config file
typed make && make modules_install
cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-2.6.5-**
cp System.map /boot/System.map-2.6.5-**

and changed the kernel name in my /boot/grub/grub.conf file

its not that hard if you think about it the hardest part is figuring out what the kernel needs and what it doesnt.

if you want sound you need to got to ic2 in the kernel and hardware and choose the module for your sound card.

enjoy

[DSwain]

oh okay you manually built it. I can do that too (lol) i just thought you emerged it for some reason, but i gotcha. any updates on the distro?

as an update to the distro, I am installing it on my laptop right now. Deliinstall is a bit rough, definitly not beginnger stuff, and it took me a bit to get it going but it seems to be working now. i'll update more later

[o0zi]

Perhaps we need a "Distros for Older Computers" thread...

There's DeLi, Feather, Damn Small, Flonix, Puppy, Vector, muLinux, Slax, Morphix LightGUI - each has its advantages and disadvantages.

[psi42]

I'm glad I was able to be of help. DeLi can certainly transform an old pentium......... I stumbled on it by chance, even though I had been looking for something of the sort for a long time.

Originally posted by o0zi
Perhaps we need a "Distros for Older Computers" thread...

I'll second that. As long as it is kept organized, it could be a good reference. If it becomes too large and cluttered, it will be next to useless...... perhaps it would be best to have one sticky thread that has just links to threads about individual distros, to stop any one thread from becoming too cluttered to be of any use.



Speak of the devil.
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126008


~psi42

[IsaacKuo]

Well, I was trying to start exactly that "Distros for Older Computers" thread, but someone please start a new one. My thread has already been completely wrecked by a slew of naysayers saying there's no such thing and that all distros are the same.

I tried, but failed. Sorry, guys. Hopefully someone else will have better luck.

[psi42]

Originally posted by IsaacKuo
Well, I was trying to start exactly that "Distros for Older Computers" thread, but someone please start a new one. My thread has already been completely wrecked by a slew of naysayers saying there's no such thing and that all distros are the same.

I tried, but failed. Sorry, guys. Hopefully someone else will have better luck.

It was a good attempt...

I might give it a try, once I think of a way to organize it.......

[psi42]

Okay...

I've done a little thinking about a "Distro for Older Computers" thread.

What I hope to create is a thread that has concise, non-cluttered information that can be reached very quickly by any viewer. Debates and comments are good, but they must needs be posted in different threads to maintain a non-cluttered masterthread.

A look at the "which distro" thread will show you what I fear. That thread has become so cluttered that one would have to spend literally hours searching to find specific information.




Here is what I was thinking:

-------------------------------------------

Each entry should contain:

* Distro name and concise description.
* Link to distro home page.
* (Optional) Link to a JL thread that discusses the distro in more detail. This is where debates and comments should go, to keep the main thread as clutter-free as possible.


This is not to debate which distro is better, or to state the truism that only you can decide which distro is right for you. It's just an information trove for distros specialized for so-called doorstops.

An "Old Computer" is defined as a 386 up to a Pentium II or equivalent.

-------------------------------------------

What do you think? Good? Bad? Worthless? I'm especially interested in what you think of the organization scheme -- will it work?
If I get enough positive comments I will post it and see what happens.


~psi42

[gehidore]

perfect but it should be pentium 2 and lower not 386 up to...

and this is another thread that i will catalogue into an html page and make regular updates. to the thread.

[DSwain]

that sounds like a great idea to me. Honestly, I really do love some older machines (PII's specfically) I believe that though there times have "passed" they're can still be good done with them, but it is a bit tricky to find a good distro which will work well with older machines (using an older mainstream distro like RedHat isn't really much of an option) so I say go with it.

But seriously, any updates on DeLi? i've been having troubles myself, but I believe its my cdrom drive, not anything else. I wanna know how it does on some machines.

[gehidore]

im gonna load it on my barton 2800+ on a 20gb5400 drive for its test run(waiting for openoffice to finish compiling), if i like it ill put it on my laptop.

[psi42]

Thanks for the input. I'll post the thread as soon as I figure out whether the unmarked CD drive on an old HP Vectra, which identifies itself as a HITACHI CDR-7930, is, in fact, a cd burner.


But seriously, any updates on DeLi? i've been having troubles myself, but I believe its my cdrom drive, not anything else. I wanna know how it does on some machines.

I made a successful install on an old Pentium 133. The install process was a bit tricky. I assumed everything was manual, so I mounted all partitions myself and unzipped delibase, and then ran the setup script. I soon discovered it expected to be mounting those partitions itself. I ended up using just delibase, booting just it, and the installing the rest of the packages manually.

I'm going to attempt another install on a 200Mhz HP Vectra.

What sort of problems have you been having?

[DSwain]

my problem as of now is just getting the darn thing to boot off to the cd half the time. I doubt its the media though... its either the harddisk being clumsy or the cdrom. If i get it booted, and start the install, it ends up stalling after extracting some of the files from delibase.tgz. So far i've booted off my Slack 9.1 cd and copied the tgz onto the hard disk, but now I can't get it too boot back into the slack 9.1 disk or the deli disk. I think I need to go make a bootdisk soon...

[DSwain]

well alright i managed to get it to boot off the cd. Here's what i did:

took the copy of delibase.tgz and extracted it into my hard disk. Then i chroot'ed into the install. Now, i need to run deliinstall, but it can't find it. Should I try installing grub or whatever comes with it and then booting into it, or should i go through and manually install all the packages by hand? Or can i somehow run deliinstall from within the install partition?

wait... nevermind, thought of a much better idea. Scratch that, i'll come back if my next idea doesn't work.

...*Notes to self* when/if this install ever works, tarball it.

[psi42]

Originally posted by DSwain
Now, i need to run deliinstall, but it can't find it.

This is where it gets tricky. deliinstall is a script you run from the boot floppy/cdrom that extracts the tarball, chroots to the new partition, and runs delisetup.

Since you extracted and chrooted it yourself, you only need to run delisetup.......


...*Notes to self* when/if this install ever works, tarball it.

Good idea. :)

[DSwain]

oh... damn i wish i knew that hahaha, my mistake. Oh well, its okay I guess then, i'm making a second copy anyways. I'll just keep going with what I have. I think once i'm done i'll write some instructions on how to do this so people can have some help doing it. not exactly a walk in the park. Plus alongside battling gaining SSL support on my Slackware box from scratch (dependancy hell) its a multi-front battle

[psi42]

Glad you're moving along. :)

I have posted the "Distros for Old Computers" thread:
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126025

I also added a Rudimentary DeLi Install Guide to the beginning of this thread. :)

~psi42

[DSwain]

"moving along" is an overstatement.
If you meant
"almost got it starting to install once but messed up and now starting from scratch with a crappy overheating cdrom drive which won't cooperate like a cdrom drive should"
then you are correct :p

It might come around we'll see. Isn't it scary how much people like us love computers and yet sit here complaining about them and hating them the whole time?

[DSwain]

okay i got it installed! apparently, i was burning too fast for my old laptop to handle i guess... bad media?? WHO KNOWS either way the cd works... anyways, next problem.

Eveyrthing works up until i try to boot. When I boot, it keeps running something that says CPU#0: Machine Check Exception: and many other different numbers. Very strange, very confusing, and it doesn't seem to have many plans on doing anything for me. Any ideas?

[gehidore]

that would be kernel machine check Exception you need to do a kernel recompile after chrooting into the system with a live cd and under processors remove machine check exception

[DSwain]

oh alright, but what is it doing exactly? i would like to know, plus why does it need to interfere with booting and doing anything? can't it just do it once and go?

don't worry about it anymore, i have given up on it. I'm running DSL .6 now ^__^ very nice, it even autodetected my PCMCIA slots and NIC! wow not ad at all. hehehe, i've been waiting to get a good distro on my laptop for a while now.

[psi42]

Try passing the "nomce" option to the kernel at bootup.

[gehidore]

this is a quote from the xconfig of kernel 2.6.5


Machine Check Exception (X86_MCE) Machine Check Exception support allows the processor to notify the kernel if it detects a problem (e.g. overheating, component failure). The action the kernel takes depends on the severity of the problem, ranging from a warning message on the console, to halting the machine. Your processor must be a Pentium or newer to support this - check the flags in /proc/cpuinfo for mce. Note that some older Pentium systems have a design flaw which leads to false MCE events - hence MCE is disabled on all P5 processors, unless explicitly enabled with "mce" as a boot argument. Similarly, if MCE is built in and creates a problem on some new non-standard machine, you can boot with "nomce" to disable it. MCE support simply ignores non-MCE processors like the 386 and 486, so nearly everyone can say Y here.

so you probably can ignore it if its an oldy

[DSwain]

okay thanks for the info, i will definitly take a look at that. I have a Pentium 166mhz btw so i dunno if it'd work or not. Oh yeah, DSL is really nice except for that i can't get network working : / i'll have to work some more on it later.

[psi42]

Here are a few nice things...

I have posted my IceWM config files. The menu now contains most of the "big" programs, and I've adjusted the preferences to the way IMHO they ought to be set. Place in /usr/share/icewm.
They are set up for a 12-hour clock. If you want a 24-hour clock, you'll need to modify the "Clock time format" (line 545) and "Clock date format" (line 551) sections in the preferences file.

~psi42

[psi42]

And here's a screenie...

It uses the icewm config files posted above, and the LighthouseBlue gtk theme that I installed.

[The Whizzard]

Originally posted by DSwain
Oh yeah, how did you get the 2.6.5 kernel from Portage btw gehidore?
Sorry to hijack this thread. Just wanted to let you know I installed kernel-2.6.5-gentoo via emerge gentoo-dev-sources on Apr. 10. I don't know why you peeps aren't able to.

[gehidore]

i dont like emerge for my kernel work. so i get it from the kernel.org site

[The Whizzard]

Originally posted by gehidore
i dont like emerge for my kernel work. so i get it from the kernel.org site No problem. I was mostly replying to DSwain because he wasn't able to emerge 2.6.5, several days after I have. I figured his portage might have been broken and needed attantion. I now see he used emerge development-sources(which I just did and gave me 2.6.4) instead of emerge gentoo-dev-sources.

[gehidore]

mabe he didnt sync before he tried it

[DSwain]

no no not that guys, but back when i was doing it, it wasn't updated, which was probably before april or very early april so it probably wasn't up to date (i always do emerge sync at the beginning of my installs btw) so it was just beforehand, besides i just did emerge development-sources last night and it gave me 2.6.6rc1 so yeah it was just before.

[psi42]

*cough* gentoo people :rolleyes: *cough* :) :) :D

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that Pathetic Writer just doesn't make the cut. It's just too buggy. Siag is a different story it seems, but unless I am going about things the wrong way, pw just is below the bar, so to speak. Not that I could do better, of course. :)

I've come across two very nice word processors that work well on old systems. My test machine is a Pentium 200MMX, but I'm pretty sure these gems should run well on a P133. I doubt either will run acceptably on a 486 (which is probably why they aren't in DeLi), but then again I don't have a 486.

Ted ( http://www.nllgg.nl/Ted/ )
Ted is a fast, stable, and feature-packed word processor. Very nice. The UI takes a little getting used to, but the program itself is very capable. You have everything you need on DeLi to compile Ted. It's an easy compile and works great. I used the newest download--it runs smoothly on my P200, if someone would like to post how it runs on older stuff, please do so.




Abiword (http://www.abisource.com ). Well, the new version of Abiword (currently 2.0.x stable), is very nice and IMHO is one of the best word processors out there. It doesn't have as many features as Open Office writer, but the GUI is cleaner and the program leaner.
However, although Abiword 2.0.x will run quite well on a machine boasting a 300mhz processor, you'll need an older version for older computers. Yes, that means all those new features, the gtk2 GUI, and, yes, even the antialiased fonts must be sacrificed for speed.

Welcome to AbiWord 0.7.11.

In AbiWord 0.7.11, some dialogs aren't implemented yet (that's a temporally relative "yet" :D)...instead they display a message asking for a patch :)




Unfortunately, although I did get several 0.7.x versions of Abiword to compile on DeLi, they all crashed immediately on startup with nothing more than an obscure "Aborted" message. I'm not sure what's up with that.

So I had to get a slackware 7.1 package, and I found one.
Vector Linux 1.8 (another slackware 7.1-based distro, but dated, as Vectorlinux has moved on and is now targeting more powerful systems) abiword package, which works:




Get abiword-0.7.11.tgz (vectorlinux 1.8/slack 7.1 package) from
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/vectorlinux/packages/office/

All abiword downloads:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/abiword

Closest thing I could find to a source tarball:
http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/26/dist/15/size/8606170/name/abisuite-0.7.11-4mdk.src.rpm




Have fun.

~psi42

[G-hacker]

hey sorry to inturuppt but the first page you guys were talking bout lightweight distros and i have two machines one is a custom p-233mhz w/ 64 mb ram and the other is 90 mhz w/ 32 mb ram you seei cant boot from cdrom on them and i wanted to know if you guys have any recomandations

[dkeav]

most distros offer a floppy install, especially deb, slack, and the bsd's
you can then do net installs

[G-hacker]

ah im not used to net installs but i would debain would be cool how do those floppys work? :confused:

[dkeav]

the floppies just boot the debian-installer, which is just a linux kernel/initrd image with some scripts, from there you can do a normal debian install

although it would make more sense, to just locate an old ide cdrom and plug it in for the install of the machines

[G-hacker]

Well the one machine has 3 cdroms already in it! ha (call me crazy) :p but i just installed deli linux and some dude told me to do a slackware network install which im not sure how to do yet... :(

[jamesbandido]

how bout DSL (Damn Small Linux)? its around 50mb only ... it worked fine on my Pentium 200MMX (with 64MB RAM) :D