The OTHER Debian Installer

[TheSpeedoBeast]

I have struggled with getting a good, true Debian installation for years. I have gotten slackware, gentoo, lfs, redhat, suse, mandrake, and all of their variants all working, but I could never figure out why I couldnt get networking, etc. working with my woody Debian installations. And now I finally have an easy to install it on my desktop:

Most people that I know go and download one of the standard 'woody' .iso images to do their debian install (or use something such as knoppix and treat that like a Debian installation) and upgrade from there, if so desired. I however could never get networking (and therefore, apt) to work with that due to an extremely outdated kernel and dhcp client. I instead looked towards a different solution to get this done: and it is the new sarge beta installer images.

If you would take the time to nav to this link: http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ and download either the 100 or 30 megabyte sarge images and burn them to a cd, i would guess that your experience with Debian installations would become much simpler.

In the case of the 100mb image, it will install a full sarge installation to your hard drive with only a few bootloader and partitioning prompts to go through. I had zero troubles with this install method, but my favorite of these two images is the 30mb networking images.

Near the beginning of the 30mb network image's installation system, it will ask you if you want 'stable', 'testing', or 'unstable' (woody, sarge, sid, respectively). After the same few prompts that the full installer gave you, you will have a 100% up-to-date installation of whatever flavor of Debian you chose. Because I am a sid advocate, I loved this method of installation because it did not require me to basically do 2 installations of Debian, as was the case with the full installer. I urge anyone who is having Debian installation to try this method of getting it on your computer in a little bit easier way. Let me know what you think!

[mdwatts]

Thanks TheSpeedoBeast as I was planning to give Debian a try in the next couple of weeks and now have a easy and JL member recommended way to install. :)

Downloading the 30mb iso image now.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

Hey, your welcome, I just wanted to help out people so that they didnt make the same mistake that I did with using the older installation method. (The full story was that I used the 'woody' iso image, but the kernel didnt support my networking card. So I upgraded the kernel and rebooted, and then the dhcp client said that it wouldnt work with my kernel. So it turned out to be a big endless circle which would have been completely not worth it to do it the hard way of recompiling an older kernel, upgrading the now networked computer to a newer dhcp client, and then re-upgrading the kernel to the version that I wanted.)

[jme]

Thanks 'TheSpeedoBeast'

I have just downloaded the 30MB version to install on a spare computer (P233) that I am going to use as a file server. I was just going to install Debian 3.0r2 as my webserver has but I thought that I would give it a try.

Very impressed - only took 30mins on the PII 233, 32MB RAM. Also much more simple and efficent than the old installer and a lot less to download for those poor users with no with broadband! :D

Now have a nice new installation of Debian Sarge ready to get configured to be my fileserver!!

Cheers,
Jamie

[uman]

I have struggled with the Woody Debian Installion and gave up all hope untill I spotted your post. You have just pointed me in the right direction for a "proper" Debian Installation.

I have downloaded the 30MB image and am about to start the install.

Thanks very much for the great tip, it will probably save the rest of my hair!

:D

[Sepero]

I'm a long time user of Debian, but I use dialup and I don't think I've seen these before. Thanks.

[DavidSulc]

I tried it back in october, but it had a few bugs and couldn't complete the install.

But now that I had to re-install Debian on my laptop, I decided to give it another shot. Wow ! The auto-detection works great. It's so beuatiful it makes you want to cry : )

I'll have to try the 30 M image, though. So far I've been doing 2 install to get to unstable, whcih is a pain...

[ruwach]

this thing has me really excited about my sarge install, one question though, how do i select a kernel with it?
is that a step, or does it default one?

[TheSpeedoBeast]

By default, a 2.4 kernel is installed, with modules all autodetected for you.

[XiaoKJ]

original debian users are more server operators with older hardware and they know all about what they are doing, and most know about unix, thus they would appreciate a debian installer that is verbose and they don't think of it as hard.

If you want a nice debian system you may want to learn how to install slackware, as it has more guidance during install. to switch to debian just don't use dselect to select individual packages and you are safe on your road.

I have not tried sarge but I think it will ease matters for newbies into debian. I personally would oppose this change as it is needed for real servers...

I also think that way as many distros originating from debian like progeny has simplified installers so original debian sticking to the original installer may be good.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

To be honest, this new debian installer actually uses fewer prompts than what slackware's does now... and no dselect! It is completely different than the old versions of it, to be truthfully honest.

[Sepero]

Originally posted by XiaoKJ
original debian users are more server operators with older hardware and they know all about what they are doing, and most know about unix...
wrong, Wrong, and WRONG

I am a long time Debian user. I do Not run a server. I do Not have older hardware. And I have Never used unix. People use Debian because:

1) It is the ORIGINAL GNU/Linux system. For a time, Richard Stallman himself even helped a lot with Debian, and he probably still uses it to this day.
2) It is THE most stable distribution, period.
3) It originated the apt system. Thus it has less dependancy problems(errors) than any other distro.
4) Of all the non-commercial distros, Debian has the Largest number of packages.

If you want proof of these things, count the number of *-based distributions of any other distro. Debian comes in number 1, hands down.

, thus they would appreciate a debian installer that is verbose and they don't think of it as hard.
Wrong again

NOBODY wants to go through more of a hassle than they have to. The Debian installer is about 4 years old. They only keep it because of their dedication to Stabillity. On Debian's next Stable Upgreade, this Will Become the defacto installer. Read:

"About the Debian Installer

The Debian-Installer is the replacement for the aging "boot-floppies" installation system used in all previous versions of debian. The Debian Installer will be the installer for future versions of Debian, beginning with sarge. It has been designed to be more modular, easier to use, and more extensible than the old installation system." (http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/)

If you want a nice debian system you may want to learn how to install slackware, as it has more guidance during install. to switch to debian just don't use dselect to select individual packages and you are safe on your road.I don't even know what you were thinking when you posted this??? Perhaps you think Slackware's is Debian-based??? It's Not. Slackware was my first distro. They use tgz packages. I used slackware for many months, but notice.... I'm not a slackware user anymore...

I have not tried sarge but I think it will ease matters for newbies into debian. I personally would oppose this change as it is needed for real servers...
WTF??? <sarcasm>Debian is needed for servers, so I better not use it. It might get all used up, then we wouldn't have it anymore!</sarcasm>

I also think that way as many distros originating from debian like progeny has simplified installers so original debian sticking to the original installer may be good.
Well, now you're gettin' closer. Yes, there are a lot of good Debian-based distro's out there that will help you acquire a good Debian system. Though, notice that all the Debain based systems stay true to the "Debian base"(not a pun). They never really expand past it (like Mandrake did with Redhat). So, no matter what Debian-based distro you get(Mepis (www.mepis.org), Knoppix, Xandros) once you start using the apt(or synaptic) system, you are pulling files from the Debian servers. In essence, you have just "reverted" your system back to Debian, whether you care to admit it or not.

Sorry to blast you like this, XiaoKJ, I'm just getting a little tired of your arrogant posts lately...


Additional info about why you should choose Debian:
http://www.linuxforce.net/debian.html
http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/talk.html

[Syngin]

Easy Sepero, let's not turn this into a flame war.

I've been using Debian since shortly after I registered here and I have to agree that its not what I'd call a newbie-friendly install. While I do throughly respect the distro, I've been waiting for an easier installer to come out before recommending it to new Linux users. To be honest, I've only every used it once as a desktop OS (in Libranet form) and I have to say that Libranet's hardware detection was a nice repreive from the standard modprobes that I had to do with potato and woody.

Good to hear that the base Debian distro is finally catching up with some of the other Debian based distros in this area though. ;)

[XiaoKJ]

Acutally I do not quite think that the old debian installer is neccessary, but I was really rewarded when I successfully installed woody using the old installer

See, we should retain some older parts of anything to act as a challenge, like unix tells us the good old days that many will even never experience. The old debian installer is also a momento to the older days when you need absolute knowledge about your system to install an OS.

It trains the newbies to be more powerful at reading parts to install and more intrusive towards their hardware.

You can see, nowadays, the amount of people not knowing the hardware that came with their ASSEMBLED computers.(combined motherboard with special features...)

Of course, being one of the major distros, many other people have used debian, thus there are always exceptions to the neccessity of the old installer. I personally think that it is more designed for servers to install debian as the settings are very command oriented -- in this case I mean that the person installing must be equiped with a fairly big amount of knowledge on linux, which is mostly technicians taking charge of servers. It is very customisable! (and boot-floppy oriented, where you would not want to waste space adding the X-windows system.)

Secondly, I suggested people who are attempting to install debian to try out slackware first, as the slackware installer has more dialogs prompting you for options with explanation and instructions. Old debian installer OBVIOUSLY does not have that, and thus it would be sensible for peope to learn about the packages from slackware before installing them in debian. Of course I know slackware isn't debian; I've used them both!

Also, many people attempting to install debian were hampered by dselect as it looks like vi and scared the hell out of me(I didn't know then). It was not needed if you use the other packaging tool which is easier.

BTW I've stated before that people have simplified debian and as Sepero stated, many debian-based distros get back to debian due to the well-proven agt system, I do not see the need for the simplification of the debian installer. You could just start out as knoppix and end up with a nice debian distro.

Maybe I was not very specific about one point though, that the original installer might be needed for really OLD servers and dumb terminals not capable of wasting installation time :D.

And Sepero, you yourself stated that the old installer is the original GNU/Linux system and is very stable. Thanks:D

Debian is very good, and I will donate if I have a job next time...

Sorrie Sepero! You are :cool: with your in-depth knowledge of debian:D

[Sepero]

Originally posted by XiaoKJ
Also, many people attempting to install debian were hampered by dselect as it looks like vi and scared the hell out of me(I didn't know then). It was not needed if you use the other packaging tool which is easier.Yeah, dselect wasn't as scary to me, but it was definitely confusing. Aptitude is a 1,000 times better(and easier).

Maybe I was not very specific about one point though, that the original installer might be needed for really OLD servers and dumb terminals not capable of wasting installation time :D.Good point. The Debian installer will probably always remain(mainly) text based. This is because of their desire to support so many different architectures.

Sorrie Sepero! You are :cool: with your in-depth knowledge of debian:D Thank you.... :confused: :)
Shakes hands and makes up.

[Sepero]

The installer has gone into Beta4 status and the .iso files have gone up respectively:
30MB -> 50MB
100MB -> 110MB

"Hello, Mr. Anderson..." :D

[TheSpeedoBeast]

So you are saying that the increased iso size is a bad thing I am assuming? Or were you just stating a fact?

[sharth]

500mb to go :p

[TheSpeedoBeast]

500 mb to go on a 50 mb file!? Hm, sorry man :p

[Sepero]

Originally posted by TheSpeedoBeast
So you are saying that the increased iso size is a bad thing I am assuming? Or were you just stating a fact? Just stating fact. Also, I'm glad to see the project making headway. In case you didn't know, Sarge should be going into Freeze state sometime in the next few months. Expect a new Debain stable next year. :D

[sharth]

Originally posted by TheSpeedoBeast
500 mb to go on a 50 mb file!? Hm, sorry man :p no, i mean that on a normal cd-rom, you have 650 some megabytes of storage. 110+500 = 610 which is kinda close to what i meant...

bah.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

Ah, I gotcha; English class is treating me poorly lately.

[bandwidth_pig]

It's great that somebody has found a easy way for more people to use Debian. But it is worth noting that there is more than one Debian ISO image to download to use as your "boot CD" and those different discs you can download do have different kernels. So, if you download the first ISO or second ISO image, I think you wind up with a 2.2 kernel. If you instead use the 5th ISO image, you get a 2.4 kernel that is fairly up to date. This is of course handy for people who have hardware that the old 2.2 kernel won't support. I was one of those people and that is how I wound up finding the more modern kernels on some of the higher numbered images.

Best way to install Debian I have found (although I hear their new installer is almost ready) is to go with a bare minimum install and just apt everything you need after. That way you don't have to mess with deselect...

[plonka2000]

Hmmm... I'm looking around at the moment for a server distro so I think I'll look into this. :)

Thanks guys.

[XiaoKJ]

Ok, just tried debian sarge BETA 4....

I think I can't get this to work :(

BTW, for sarge, do you get testing packages or unstable?

And I must comment that sarge's installer is just like slackware's only with hardware detection.... And the switch is not essential....

[Sepero]

XiaoKJ, are you installing for a desktop or server? If you're trying to install for a desktop, the your best bet is to use mepis (www.mepis.org). It's the best Debian Desktop installer I have ever found.

[Hadiz]

What kind of window manager options are given during the install? Can you choose, for example, xfce instead of Gnome?

[TheSpeedoBeast]

Yeeah, just about any WM out there is avaliable to linux; it has more packages available than any other distribution out there. Just apt-get *package name* and it will install it for you.

[Lucas_Maximus]

Installed and it worked very well. coolness.