New Debian System -- Need help

[Unruly]

Ok, I'm trying to get my debian system up and on it's feet. My only problem is that the base install is quite antiquated, and needs upgrading sorely.

(btw, please do not email me on this issue, I've yet to even get netscape working correctly, let alone mail...)

So, right now, what I need is help with information on firewalls, the new kernel (since I hear it ditched IPchains), upgrading GNOME (helix) to ximian gnome 1.4, and getting my complete libranet system up and running... nothing fancy... but I'm really not in the mood to try and coax adminmenu to actually put my kernel image in the right place (when I recompile for 2.4)


PLEASE HELP!

[Tyr-7BE]

To upgrade all software on your computer: Go to a bash prompt, become root, and type "apt-get upgrade" (Libranet has apt-get right?). Booya...all software to the latest version. If you want more of a graphical front to apt, try typing "dselect" or "aptitude". If either of these don't work, "apt-get install dselect" or "apt-get install aptitude". As for the new kernel and firewalls, the new kernel can still do IPChains...you just need to specify that you'd like them in there. It's under one of the submenus. When it gives you the option to enable whatever it is that replaces ipchains (I think it's netfilter), enable it, and then in a submenu there will be ipchains support option.
As for the Gnome situation. Have you done any reading on Debian's package management style? There's three levels of packages that you can download: stable, testing, and unstable. When a package is released, it is almost instantly put into the "unstable" catagory. After a few weeks of bug reports and testing to make sure that the thing won't blow up in your face, it's put into the "testing" category. After a good while, when everyone is POSITIVE that this program has no bugs or quirks, it's put into the "stable" catagory. Currently, Gnome 1.4 is in the "unstable" catagory. I'm hoping that they put it into testing soon, because I want it! I've had some bad experiences with unstable software before that I wouldn't care to repeat. For more info on the packages and apt-getting, etc, check out the documentation at http://www.debian.org/ . Might also want to check out http://www.libranet.com/ .

[Unruly]

Oh, so there IS an IPChains support option in 2.4 ... doh...ok, cool...

um, now, all I need to do is get my voodoo2 working (well, maybe not, I might just buy a v3) my printer (HP OfficeJet 700) and my soundcard, which, by all intents and purposes, should be in the new kernel...

hmmm

after that I gotta remove all the bloat that I don't use ... then make netscape WORK, and thennnn... customize my UI *sigh* so many options...

[Unruly]

*plays with upgrading* ok, here is where I always run into problems... I try to do an apt-get upgrade and when it finishes, it fscks up GNOME to the point where I can't use it at all...

gedit gnome-core gnome-help gnome-panel gnome-panel-data gnome-session gnome-terminal gnucash gnumeric sane-gimp1.1 sawfish sawfish-gnome task-helix-gnome task-x-window-system-core xsane-gimp1.1

are all kept back, and just by reading it, it doesn't look good... *sigh* any ideas on how NOT to break GNOME?

[Tyr-7BE]

Ugh..."held back" is typically not a good thing. Does it tell you that you've requested an impossible situation?
Are you trying to apt-get Gnome 1.4? Remember that this is still in the unstable phase, and brand-spanking-new, so there may be packages which are required that haven't been created yet. Take a look at your /etc/apt/sources.list file and see what you have there...there should be a whole lotta URLs with "stable" after them, and then a few words like "main" and "contrib" and such following "stable", then depending on whether or not you want newer stuff that might be unstable, there should be the same thing, but with "testing" or "unstable" instead of "stable", depending on how risky you want to be. If you want something that's fairly current and will probably work, change "unstable" to "testing". Gnome 1.4 ain't there yet, but it will be soon. Sorry for all the quotes. Remember to do an apt-get update to update your list of available packages every time you change your sources.list, and just before you do an apt-get upgrade. Otherwise you'll be comparing your packages to your local cached list, and there will obviously be no change from before :p
Gnome has always given me problems. I tried to apt-get Ximian, and got errors coming out of my ***. In my specific case, task-ximian-gnome required task-gnome-games for some stupid reason. One of the games required libguile6, while another vital utility needed libguile9. The two conflict. I wrote technical support about it, but their response was "what problem?". I ended up forcing the install (apt-get --help, or it's an option in dselect), running into problems, trying the install again, seeing a whole lotta errors flash up on the screen, wondering what the hell happened, rebooting my system, and finding Gnome working to some extent :)
Good luck with Gnome...it's never easy :( If it is 1.4, just don't be surprised if it fails.

[ 07 April 2001: Message edited by: Tyr-7BE ]

[Ig0r]

If you're going to reinstall everything, then do this:
Install base files from stable (absolute default minimum, and libncurses5-dev)
Compile new kernel
Change apt source to unstable and update/upgrade
Reboot with the new kernel
Configure userspace daemons
Now you can install X and GNOME and then all your various apps, once everything else is prepared

That's how I clean install Debian on systems.

[debiandude]

apt-get -f install

or manually do
apt-get install nameofheldbackpakages

[Tyr-7BE]

Originally posted by Ig0r:
If you're going to reinstall everything, then do this:
Install base files from stable (absolute default minimum, and libncurses5-dev)
Compile new kernel
Change apt source to unstable and update/upgrade
Reboot with the new kernel
Configure userspace daemons
Now you can install X and GNOME and then all your various apps, once everything else is prepared

That's how I clean install Debian on systems.

Not a bad plan! Unstable sometimes does need a few packages that don't exist yet, but quite nice otherwise. Can you do that with Libranet? From what I hear, it's the Mandrake of Debians.

[Unruly]

Debiandude, my problem is that when I try to install them (force or not) they don't have certian packages of dependancies, meaning it's impossible to install them...

which is the error I get, impossible situation... oh well... :p

[Tyr-7BE]

as root, type "apt-get clean" to get rid of all downloaded .debs. Change your /etc/apt/sources.list to "testing" instead of "unstable" and see if that helps any. With any luck, and apt-get update/upgrade later and you'll be sitting pretty :)

[debiandude]

Okay is you main debian apt source a stable/testing/unstable distrobution. If its stable or testing you would be able to (at least from expirence) upgrade to the Gnome 1.4 files from Ximian. However, trying to upgrade from an unstable distro to ximian gnome will fail because the Ximian distro is a beta version of Gnome1.4 and the debian packages are newer. Also ximian has some wierd naming conventions with the gnomeprint stuff. Okay, depending on what connection you have this is what I would do.

Forget about the 2.4 kernel for now, you can always do that after.

apt-get remove gnome*

To get rid of any ximian pacages. Remove the ximian source from /etc/apt/sources.list

and follow that by apt-get update && apt-get install gnome-core kernel-source-2.4.2

Then you should be able to boot into gdm and compile your source.

[debiandude]

Also the above post was really assuming that you were using unstable. Which for me is quite stable ;-), so I see no reason right now that you don't change your apt source.

[Unruly]

hmmm, well, my sources.list is pointed to testing and stable, so, I dunno, lemme check again...

http://clanghostbear.tripod.com/heldback.png

that's what I get when it's set to stable/testing

[debiandude]

Okay try this.

Edit your apt sources list for unstable.
Edit you apt list and add:
deb http://pandora.debian.org/~kitame/mozilla ./

apt-get clean && apt-get update

dpkg --force-depends -P xbase-clients xcontrib xfonts-100dpi xfonts-75dpi xfonts-base xfree86-common xlib6g-dev xserver-common xserver-svga xterm xviddetect

apt-get install task-x-window-system-core libglide2 libglide2-dev gnome-core nautilus evolution mozilla

[Tyr-7BE]

Have you tried just going ahead with the upgrade? That's a good choice if nothing else works. That's what I did with Gnome. Just went ahead regardless of what might happen, and kept pressing "y". It worked after a few apt-get installs and a few apt-get upgrades.

[rod]

Those packages were being held back because you did an upgrade instead of dist-upgrade.

Regards,
Rod

[Tyr-7BE]

Unruly, just as a sidenote, where did you get Libranet? Did you buy it or download it for free? There's a question on the board about this right now, and also a friend of mine wants to try linux. I'm just wondering if I should recommend he get the new libranet. I will recommend just that if it's free.

[debiandude]

I am sure he understands that. He is just getting nervous (maybe?) because he sees all those packages being held back. I don't think dist-upgrade will do much difference for instance:
he has xserver-svga and with xfree4.02 it will have xserver-xfree86 which conflict. It will first try to upgrade the installed server and hold back the newer xserver-xfree86. Thats why he needs to purge some of the stuff.

[Tyr-7BE]

However, "dist-upgrade" is often the quickest way known to mankind to turn a PC into a useless lump of silicon until the user has experienced X hours of headache and frustration.

[rod]

Originally posted by Tyr-7BE:
However, "dist-upgrade" is often the quickest way known to mankind to turn a PC into a useless lump of silicon until the user has experienced X hours of headache and frustration.

Depending on the status of the unstable tree. I have in the past week used the dreaded dist-upgrade and that was a Slink based install. Went fairly smooth. Of course that could change at anytime if the Debian people are up-loading some troublesome packages.

Regards,
Rod

[debiandude]

So how are things going dude?

[Unruly]

Things are going slowly, I just got back from tim hortons, 'cause I'm gonna need all the energy I can muster to get through this...

so far, that sugestion about nuking all my x server stuff made linux die pretty quick...

but i'm back, and nothing lost really...

ok, well, I know that I'm running Xwin 3.3.x um, kernel 2.2.17, and helixgnome with sawfish 3.0 (something with a three - oh in it :p)

maybe I'll just try my luck with the kernel first... I don't know what needs to be updated in the way of programs to complie it correctly though... and x4.0.2 would be great, but I have no idea how to do it, annnd um, so would nautlilis and some of the other goodies, but right now... it doesn't seem very feasable...

libranet 1.8.1 ---

tyr -- I got it 'cause I had not liked the regular debian install/configuration

[Tyr-7BE]

Well if none of the other stuff worked, go for the dist-upgrade! What have you got to lose!

[rod]

For the kernel upgrade, you may want to consider using Debian's kernel-package. Make sure you have the following installed:

kernel-package
bin86

If you want to use make xconfig make sure you have the following:

tcl*.*
tk*.*

Get the kernel you want from http://www.kernel.org/ Move it to /usr/src. Unpack the kernel.

cd /usr/src/linux

make xconfig

make-kpkg kernel_image

That will make you a kernel.deb to install.

dpkg --install <your new kernel.deb>

Sets up appropiate symbolic links, adds new kernel to lilo and prompts you to make a boot floppy.

When you get this done we can work out the kinks for xfree and the other stuff.

Regards,
Rod

[ 08 April 2001: Message edited by: rod ]

[debiandude]

This is what I would do if I was in your situation. Since obviously this was a new install you don't have anything on their yet. Just hope over to debian.org and download the boot disk. Reinstall. But when the package selection comes up don't select ANY packages, just hit finish. Then you will have a system with basically apt and a few necessary things. Then you will edit (no choice, jk) you apt list to point to sid (so you can get the new gnome stuff and kde et al. like it seems you want). Then add this:
deb http://pandora.debian.org/~kitame/mozilla ./

You will need that for nautilus. Okay, now do:
apt-get dist-upgrade

That will update the minimalist amount of packages you have on your system. Then add the pacakes you need:
apt-get install task-x-window-system-core gnome-core task-gnome-apps task-gnome-applets task-gnome-net sawfish-gnome nautilus evolution mozilla gdm

You should be good. Execpt for one thing, task-gnome-apps and other havn't been updated to remove gmc so do this:
apt-get remove gmc

Don't worry it will remove the task packages but that is ok. You now have a the most uptodate debian system available.

Now go to it!!!

[debiandude]

Btw some of the packages do muss up apt so do a
dpkg --configure -a

if for some reason it fail. after you do that just redo the command you issued before that. Good luck!