mr orion77
09-18-2003, 05:47 AM
then at least we can have something to work towards ie mandrake!!
just thought i'd bring up the debate.
just thought i'd bring up the debate.
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : wouldnt it make sense to develop a distro for games
Sepero
09-18-2003, 06:02 AM
Just use a WindowManager instead of a Desktop.(IceWM instead of KDE) That alone can graetly increase the speed of many systems.
Need more speed? Use JAMD. Optimized for i686's.
Or try Gentoo. Compile EVERYTHING from scratch, optimized for whatever your system is.
Need more speed? Use JAMD. Optimized for i686's.
Or try Gentoo. Compile EVERYTHING from scratch, optimized for whatever your system is.
mrBen
09-18-2003, 06:46 AM
You mean, something like a Mandrake Gaming Edition (http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/81/gaming-edition) ?
There is also a Knoppix gaming edition too.
There is also a Knoppix gaming edition too.
mr orion77
09-18-2003, 06:54 AM
well something that developers could target. most graphics apps (3d anyway) are built for red hat so why dont games developers develop for a particular distro?
isnt that the reason why so many game ports are inconsitent across the range of distros?
isnt that the reason why so many game ports are inconsitent across the range of distros?
Hayl
09-18-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by mr orion77
well something that developers could target. most graphics apps (3d anyway) are built for red hat
what? are you saying that the apps are "coded" by the developers to run on Red Hat specifically? if you are then i'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. the software that people develop for *nix is not developed to run only on any distro (see my last comment); in fact, there isn't really anything they can do to make something run only on one distro... this just doesn't make any sense.
so why dont games developers develop for a particular distro?
isnt that the reason why so many game ports are inconsitent across the range of distros?
no. the distro shouldn't matter at all. the only differences between distros is the version of the kernel they use - which only really effects what hardware is supported, and the versions of libraries that they use - which can be upgraded if required, and the location of certain files, and the names of certain config files - mainly the ones in the /etc directory. i think that you have a misconception regarding the differences between distros. linux == linux, no matter what distro you are running.
PS: all these "gaming edition" versions of linux just have low-latency patched kernels that anyone can compile on any non-gaming edition distro if they require.
well something that developers could target. most graphics apps (3d anyway) are built for red hat
what? are you saying that the apps are "coded" by the developers to run on Red Hat specifically? if you are then i'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. the software that people develop for *nix is not developed to run only on any distro (see my last comment); in fact, there isn't really anything they can do to make something run only on one distro... this just doesn't make any sense.
so why dont games developers develop for a particular distro?
isnt that the reason why so many game ports are inconsitent across the range of distros?
no. the distro shouldn't matter at all. the only differences between distros is the version of the kernel they use - which only really effects what hardware is supported, and the versions of libraries that they use - which can be upgraded if required, and the location of certain files, and the names of certain config files - mainly the ones in the /etc directory. i think that you have a misconception regarding the differences between distros. linux == linux, no matter what distro you are running.
PS: all these "gaming edition" versions of linux just have low-latency patched kernels that anyone can compile on any non-gaming edition distro if they require.
JesseJames
09-18-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Hayl
what? are you saying that the apps are "coded" by the developers to run on Red Hat specifically? if you are then i'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. the software that people develop for *nix is not developed to run only on any distro (see my last comment); in fact, there isn't really anything they can do to make something run only on one distro... this just doesn't make any sense.[/B]
Mr Orion77: I think you touched a nerve ;)
If your suggesting a pure gaming distro which can do nothing else then I think thats a good idea. ie
No bulk
No office suit
No graphics suit
A very simple and compact GUI
Capable of connecting to the internet
Simple compact, fast browser.
Networking capabilities
Winex with p2p (Whatever that is... I have read about Im still not sure what it is.)
Old game interpriters (eg ScummVM, sarien, etc)
Lots of linux games :p
Emulators
Im not much of a linux gamer (my current linux system struggles with a simple GUI) but I think thats all that would be needed. Maybe a LFS system with BLFS (http://www.hu.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/whatisblfs.html) could be used as the base system.
what? are you saying that the apps are "coded" by the developers to run on Red Hat specifically? if you are then i'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion. the software that people develop for *nix is not developed to run only on any distro (see my last comment); in fact, there isn't really anything they can do to make something run only on one distro... this just doesn't make any sense.[/B]
Mr Orion77: I think you touched a nerve ;)
If your suggesting a pure gaming distro which can do nothing else then I think thats a good idea. ie
No bulk
No office suit
No graphics suit
A very simple and compact GUI
Capable of connecting to the internet
Simple compact, fast browser.
Networking capabilities
Winex with p2p (Whatever that is... I have read about Im still not sure what it is.)
Old game interpriters (eg ScummVM, sarien, etc)
Lots of linux games :p
Emulators
Im not much of a linux gamer (my current linux system struggles with a simple GUI) but I think thats all that would be needed. Maybe a LFS system with BLFS (http://www.hu.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/whatisblfs.html) could be used as the base system.
bwkaz
09-20-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by JesseJames
No bulk
No office suit It's simple enough to just deselect this stuff if you don't want it installed...
No graphics suit What do you mean by "graphics suit"? (suite?) If you mean stuff like Qt or Gtk, then what you want is impossible. You can't make X programs without X toolkits, and you can't run them if you don't have the runtime part of the toolkit that they were made for.
A very simple and compact GUI Use fluxbox or icewm, as was suggested. Or none of the above (go with twm, installed as part of X; yes, it's what I use ;)).
Winex with p2p (Whatever that is... I have read about Im still not sure what it is.) Point-2-Play. Not sure what it does, but it's only available in the for-pay version of WineX, which CANNOT be redistributed. In other words, what you want here is impossible due to the WineX license.
A WineX CVS might be legally distributable, but I'd have to reread the AFPL to be sure. It won't have copy protection support, though, because Transgaming can't reveal the source for those (mostly because the companies that make copy protection schemes believe in security through obscurity (morons), and made Transgaming sign NDAs).
Old game interpriters (eg ScummVM, sarien, etc)
Lots of linux games :p
Emulators The majority of this stuff is available for most Linux distros. If it's not preinstalled, look for a package on Freshmeat; if there's no package, compile it from source.
No bulk
No office suit It's simple enough to just deselect this stuff if you don't want it installed...
No graphics suit What do you mean by "graphics suit"? (suite?) If you mean stuff like Qt or Gtk, then what you want is impossible. You can't make X programs without X toolkits, and you can't run them if you don't have the runtime part of the toolkit that they were made for.
A very simple and compact GUI Use fluxbox or icewm, as was suggested. Or none of the above (go with twm, installed as part of X; yes, it's what I use ;)).
Winex with p2p (Whatever that is... I have read about Im still not sure what it is.) Point-2-Play. Not sure what it does, but it's only available in the for-pay version of WineX, which CANNOT be redistributed. In other words, what you want here is impossible due to the WineX license.
A WineX CVS might be legally distributable, but I'd have to reread the AFPL to be sure. It won't have copy protection support, though, because Transgaming can't reveal the source for those (mostly because the companies that make copy protection schemes believe in security through obscurity (morons), and made Transgaming sign NDAs).
Old game interpriters (eg ScummVM, sarien, etc)
Lots of linux games :p
Emulators The majority of this stuff is available for most Linux distros. If it's not preinstalled, look for a package on Freshmeat; if there's no package, compile it from source.
Quattro
09-20-2003, 03:38 PM
I recall some time ago Mandrake had a gaming edition that came with The Sims (it was also the only way to get The Sims for Linux). After they released 9.0, the gaming edition seems to have been discontinued...
Was it real, or was I just imagining it?
Was it real, or was I just imagining it?
JesseJames
09-20-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by bwkaz
What do you mean by "graphics suit"? (suite?) If you mean stuff like Qt or Gtk, then what you want is impossible. You can't make X programs without X toolkits, and you can't run them if you don't have the runtime part of the toolkit that they were made for.
I ment the things like GIMP:rolleyes: It might be simple to deselect all the stuff you dont want but it takes ages and for people like me who arent sure what all the packages do it can be quite a laberous task.
What I was suggesting was a very simple, compact version of linux that only has the required packages to make linux run with a gui and to make the games playable.
What do you mean by "graphics suit"? (suite?) If you mean stuff like Qt or Gtk, then what you want is impossible. You can't make X programs without X toolkits, and you can't run them if you don't have the runtime part of the toolkit that they were made for.
I ment the things like GIMP:rolleyes: It might be simple to deselect all the stuff you dont want but it takes ages and for people like me who arent sure what all the packages do it can be quite a laberous task.
What I was suggesting was a very simple, compact version of linux that only has the required packages to make linux run with a gui and to make the games playable.
Sepero
09-20-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by bwkaz
go with twm, installed as part of X; yes, it's what I use ;)Are you serious, bwkaz? There are smaller WM's than twm, that are better too. I think fvwm is one.
Also, I think p2p with WINE is generally considered Kazaa.(*****peer, not point2play)
go with twm, installed as part of X; yes, it's what I use ;)Are you serious, bwkaz? There are smaller WM's than twm, that are better too. I think fvwm is one.
Also, I think p2p with WINE is generally considered Kazaa.(*****peer, not point2play)
bwkaz
09-20-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Sepero
Are you serious, bwkaz? Yeah...
There are smaller WM's than twm Really? I guess I'm not sure how you can get smaller than "this is the absolute most minimalistic window manager available, it's only here to demonstrate HOW to do stuff, it should never actually be used" (which is, I think, in the code comments, but I'll check here in a minute too. <edit> can't find it, so I'll have to assume that I'm making that up, or something </edit>), but hey, I've never tried fvwm either.
"Better" is in the mind of the beholder. I've gotten very used to the way twm works, enough so that switching would be a major pain in the butt.
Also, I think p2p with WINE is generally considered Kazaa.(*****peer, not point2play) P2P outside the context of WineX is usually peer-2-peer, yeah. But Point-2-Play does actually exist:
http://www.transgaming.com/news.php?newsid=65
as of WineX 3.0 (3.1 has a bit newer version). Basically, it seems to be a way to set up games without manually editing ~/.transgaming/config (for stuff like DllOverrides). *shrug*
Originally posted by JesseJames
It might be simple to deselect all the stuff you dont want but it takes ages and for people like me who arent sure what all the packages do it can be quite a laberous task. Hmm. Yeah, the first two times through it or so. After that, you start to remember what these things are, and it gets a *lot* faster. At least, it did for me back when I started using Mandrake...
I do recommend doing it, eventually, regardless. See if you can allocate a couple hours one day to read all the package descriptions.
As for a "simple, compact" version of Linux, LFS fits at least half of that... ;) Mandrake fits the other half... ;)
Once you figure it out, I've heard that Gentoo can fit both. But I don't have any experience with it.
Are you serious, bwkaz? Yeah...
There are smaller WM's than twm Really? I guess I'm not sure how you can get smaller than "this is the absolute most minimalistic window manager available, it's only here to demonstrate HOW to do stuff, it should never actually be used" (which is, I think, in the code comments, but I'll check here in a minute too. <edit> can't find it, so I'll have to assume that I'm making that up, or something </edit>), but hey, I've never tried fvwm either.
"Better" is in the mind of the beholder. I've gotten very used to the way twm works, enough so that switching would be a major pain in the butt.
Also, I think p2p with WINE is generally considered Kazaa.(*****peer, not point2play) P2P outside the context of WineX is usually peer-2-peer, yeah. But Point-2-Play does actually exist:
http://www.transgaming.com/news.php?newsid=65
as of WineX 3.0 (3.1 has a bit newer version). Basically, it seems to be a way to set up games without manually editing ~/.transgaming/config (for stuff like DllOverrides). *shrug*
Originally posted by JesseJames
It might be simple to deselect all the stuff you dont want but it takes ages and for people like me who arent sure what all the packages do it can be quite a laberous task. Hmm. Yeah, the first two times through it or so. After that, you start to remember what these things are, and it gets a *lot* faster. At least, it did for me back when I started using Mandrake...
I do recommend doing it, eventually, regardless. See if you can allocate a couple hours one day to read all the package descriptions.
As for a "simple, compact" version of Linux, LFS fits at least half of that... ;) Mandrake fits the other half... ;)
Once you figure it out, I've heard that Gentoo can fit both. But I don't have any experience with it.
Sepero
09-21-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by JesseJames
It might be simple to deselect all the stuff you dont want but it takes ages and for people like me who arent sure what all the packages do it can be quite a laberous task.Basically, all the resources and programs you need are already there. So what's the problem??? You don't know what to do with them. :)
So how is this problem solved? Someone creates a HOWTO.
It might be simple to deselect all the stuff you dont want but it takes ages and for people like me who arent sure what all the packages do it can be quite a laberous task.Basically, all the resources and programs you need are already there. So what's the problem??? You don't know what to do with them. :)
So how is this problem solved? Someone creates a HOWTO.
mr orion77
09-21-2003, 08:28 AM
yeah jessejames something like you mentioned. im still in newbsville but im asking the question because some games dont work at all eg neverwinter nights has issues and it seems to require a lot of fiddling. if there was a set criteria of libs and programs needed that a developer was to state in install files. thus you would know exactly what you needed and you could get them, rather than having to solve the problem that is specific to your distro.
then all we would need is to ensure we had the correct files and hey presto.
that way you could buy/download your distro knowing its capabilities to fit your needs.
then all we would need is to ensure we had the correct files and hey presto.
that way you could buy/download your distro knowing its capabilities to fit your needs.
JesseJames
09-21-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Sepero
Basically, all the resources and programs you need are already there.
The same could be said for alot of different distros. Somebody might aswell make a distro with everything for linux on it so we can abolish all the other distros. That would mean people would only have to deselect all the stuff they dont want...
With all the free space on the CD's after all the crap has been removed there would be space for loads of opensource linux games for the user to play around with.
Edit: Iv tried to tidy it up a little bit but it still doesnt make sence I think :D
Basically, all the resources and programs you need are already there.
The same could be said for alot of different distros. Somebody might aswell make a distro with everything for linux on it so we can abolish all the other distros. That would mean people would only have to deselect all the stuff they dont want...
With all the free space on the CD's after all the crap has been removed there would be space for loads of opensource linux games for the user to play around with.
Edit: Iv tried to tidy it up a little bit but it still doesnt make sence I think :D
Sepero
09-21-2003, 07:12 PM
Does anyone even understand that last comment by Jesse? Actually, I think I understand it, but there doesn't seem to be a point.
P.S.
If I may nit-pick. Free Software is not freeware. Free Software is free as in "free as a bird", freeware is free as in "free beer". The source code of Free Software has been liberated. The source code of freeware is proprietary.
P.S.
If I may nit-pick. Free Software is not freeware. Free Software is free as in "free as a bird", freeware is free as in "free beer". The source code of Free Software has been liberated. The source code of freeware is proprietary.
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