How should I learn Linux?

[Nekopa]

Hello all!
I know that this is a very open ended question, and I will accept all flames graciously! But I have asked for help here before, and have been helped. I just wonder if I am going about things the wrong way. I have installed and had running Linux RH 7.0 about 10 times now. I am not averse to reading and I love all things technical. I am proficient with DOS and WIN, and I have even had the chance to operate and repair old IBM mainframes (370 series) and used vax a little in my youth. I love to program, and that is why I keep slogging away Linux and open source software in general.

But I am facing a dilemma:
Should I continue using my RH distro with its slick install routines, RPMs Gnome, XWindows, windows managers etc...

Or should I install just the bare Linux, then learn how to add XFree86, Destop managers, compile source distros, until I end up with what my RH distro would just install for me?

I like to use Linux, so the redhat option seemed the best, I could surf the web, visit these forums, find all the info I needed easily and quickly. But I would hate the fact that I would be lulled into a false sense of security. When something went wrong I would be lost. I would install a RPM in minutes (Cable modem helps) but spend hours trying to find where the executable went :)
(Because it didn't leave a symlink on my desktop or in the Gnome menus anywhere)

With Win I at least know my way around the system. I remember when Win 3.0 was around, and DOS, so I learned from the ground up. Should I be applying this mentality to Linux? I had thought I could do both, but was dismayed to find that under the developement tab in a Gnome menu there was only glade... Sounded peaceful enough... But where were all the C++ Python Perl assembly languages I had asked to be installed? Buried deep in the command line.

So due to a recent power outage, something in my root file system got messed up, so I have to go and figure out wether or not I should look up fsck on the web and try to use it to fixed the problem, and get my nice pretty gui up and running again, or go and install Linux from scratch (I should still have a 15GB Linux native partition to mess with) and learn Linux the way I learned Win, from the command prompt first?

I have the RH 7.0 distro, Mandrake 7.0 distro and Storm Linux 2000 all on CDs. So I even have the option of choosing which distro to use.

Any comments or questions or discussions or suggestions would be very much appreciated, even links to good documentation, though I have found lots of good sources for docs -God Bless Google.com

Thanks in advance

Lee

[Counterstrike]

Learning Linux is a user-by-user experience. In my opinion, what really helped me is to get a distro that doesn't do everything for you. Mandrake, RH, and the like are great for newbies: a complete system with no work, but, like you said, they don't teach you a whole lot. What actually helped me is I installed Slack 7.1. It's an extremely different Linux experience when you boot your system and it takes you to a command prompt. From there, the rest of the system is up to you. You have to install XFree, KDE, Gnome, whatever. It taught me a lot.

But when I was done I got rid of that and installed DEBIAN. (Had to slam all the slack users). :D

My advice would be to start from the command prompt and work your way up. Use a separate windows or linux computer that you're familiar with to get information from, that way, if you screw up, you still have people to help you, rather than reinstalling and then wondering what actually went wrong (like I did a few times).

[Nekopa]

Hi there,
Thanks for the reply. I have heard that Slack is the puritan way to go, so I was thinking about that, and I hear alot about Debian around the sites too. What makes Debian one of your faves?

I like the sound of Slack though, because I like to know how and why I got XFree working for example, so that when something goes wrong, if I can't fix it, at least I will know how to ask the right questions.

Thank you for your input

Lee

[Counterstrike]

Oh yea, and as for help links, you can try a multitude of sites on the internet and a few pages right here at LNO.


NHF Index - http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/index.html

Some site I found - http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/linux.shtml

Linux.org docs - http://www.linux.org/docs/index.html

A General How-To (fairly good) - http://www.linuxhq.com/ldp/howto/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html

Linux Docs Galore - http://www.linuxdoc.org/

There's a bunch more out there, I'm sure a few more people will post some when they wake up today.

[mrBen]

I'm still quite new to Linux too, but here's my thoughts:

I tend to go mad if my main working system is not working! You need to have a fully working system to work on, and then your learning system. Perhaps in your case you could partion your 15Gb into, say, 10Gb and 5Gb and then put RedHat onto the 10Gb, and have a working Linux partition, web access, office programs, all the stuff for day-to-day work, and then on the 5Gb start from scratch.
Personally, I have an old 386 which I am going to use for this (when I get time!) and my intention is to not have XWindows at all for a while. I'm going to try and use Links for the web, Mutt for mail, Emacs for programming and word processing, and stuff like that. Just to get me used to it all. Oh, and probably you will want to compile everything from scratch too, which will be a laugh. Perhaps the old Midnight Commander might help a little with File Handling.
I think my other recommendation would be to start with a minimal install of one of the basic distro's rather than doing a complete from scratch. By that I mean have the kernel, bash, gcc, and all the other little daemons that we forget about installed first, to get you used to the command line, before you start thinking about the true 'from scratch' approach.

HTH

[Counterstrike]

Originally posted by Nekopa:
<STRONG>What makes Debian one of your faves?</STRONG>

apt-get is probably the one thing that made me love debian. Dependancies are one thing that Windows users generally don't have to worry about. For example (this isn't true, but pure example) you have to have Word 2000 before you can install Internet Explorer 6. (Windows terms make it easier to understand.) What apt-get does is go in and figure out what program you want and downloads it, then gets all the dependancies for the program as well, so you never really have to worry about a fscked up system (unless I'm on it, then it's gone in 5 minutes) :) . If you really want to learn all the reasons why Debian is better than Slackware, just wait for Craig to come and "educate" you on the joys of debian. Every distro has it's ups and downs, choosing one is up to the user and the level of committment they want to put into Linux, whether at work or for pleasure.

&lt;edit&gt; Linkage for your pleasure: http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/distros/distronhf.html &lt;/edit&gt;

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: Counterstrike ]

[Hena]

I've been using now RH for a month or so and it seems to be very nice and easy. And it does allow some amount of working around. Anyways, my point was supposed to be program called package manager. This is atleast in KDE, don't know about Gnome, but it shows you complete file list where each rpm has put files in. Suggest you try that out, if you keep on using RH.

[Counterstrike]

Originally posted by Hena:
<STRONG>I've been using now RH for a month or so and it seems to be very nice and easy. And it does allow some amount of working around. Anyways, my point was supposed to be program called package manager. This is atleast in KDE, don't know about Gnome, but it shows you complete file list where each rpm has put files in. Suggest you try that out, if you keep on using RH.</STRONG>

IIRC, it's called kpackage.

[mrBen]

If you want to find out where RPM has installed files to, then just type rpm -ql &lt;progname&gt; at the command line and it will list all the installed files for that program.

[Hena]

Originally posted by Counterstrike:
IIRC, it's called kpackage.

Oh... well, thanks. Always there is new information :)

[Nekopa]

Hello all!
Where to start... I do know a little about the package managers (see my current post in the web server/security section of these forums) and I do have a working system, though it is win98(slow edition) I have 15GB of a 60GB HDD partioned as native Linux, so I might just opt for installing RH, Debian and Slack, but I would probably end up in RH playing solitaire :cool:

But in between these post I have been to Debians site, and I am about to go to Slacks, but please, keep the advice coming, as I am starting to form some ideas

Thanks folks

Lee

[Pierre Lambion]

I would only advice you to stick to command line for some weeks/months if you can afford it.

Slackware is great for a command line usage. Zipslack can help you experiment as it is easy to keep different versions/stages of your config.

P.

[Nekopa]

To Counterstrike,
Thanks for the links, especially for the one NHF on Distros. I had read most of the NHFs but some how missed this one, it is excellent, and I loved the end quote:

Todo list for this NHF
Well, I would still like to hear from a Debian, Storm, Corel and Caldera user or 3 to help add to this. And, I wish more people would read it before posting on the BB's. :).


:o

Lee

[Counterstrike]

hehe... yeah, it's old and needs updating, but it's still a fairly good guide for users to get a general feeling of various distros.