How many of you are Red Hat certification (RHCE), let's count, & please take a vote! [Archive]

Icarus

07-30-2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by mdwatts
Me too as all my Linux knowledge is self taught. You know - reading the &%($n manuals. ;)

My manager has offered to send me on some Linux courses, but I'm afraid of some of them being... type cd <directory> to change directories etc. etc. :rolleyes:

I would like something a bit more advanced. Just stay away from the courses that say "For the beginner" :)

I took HP-UX admin class a couple years ago going in with good knowledge of Unix...and learned a TON of stuff, even now it would be good for me to take again. You always forget more then you think you knew :)

mart_man00

07-30-2003, 03:53 PM

Im still in high school and was just thinking about this kind of stuff.

Has it done you any good? Did you learn anything(worth wild)? Did it ever help to get you a job/better job(like high rank earlier)?

I was thinking of going Cisco and RedHat since I heard that my school might pay alittle for the Cisco(because of their high school program).

Any advice?

roadorange

07-30-2003, 04:23 PM

oh.. only 1 RHCE here.. so far.
anyway, how to make my topic to let everybody see it. so, all ppl can participate in this topic if they are interested.
is it a good topic to count how many RHCE in this website???
my objective: RHCE, then ---->cisco

mdwatts

07-30-2003, 04:28 PM

CMonster (???) should be around sometime to post the picture of his Linux diploma. :)

mdwatts

07-30-2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by roadorange

is it a good topic to count how many RHCE in this website???
my objective: RHCE, then ---->cisco

If that is what you are planning, then just go for it and don't worry how many members here do have their RHCE.

roadorange

07-30-2003, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by mdwatts
If that is what you are planning, then just go for it and don't worry how many members here do have their RHCE.
oh........... i just feel curious about how many ppl have their RHCE or other linux certification.

fergz

07-30-2003, 09:42 PM

am not RHCE but i would like to get the certs but a need to learn linux first

CCNAwanna

07-30-2003, 09:49 PM

I'm currently an MCSE, and working on RHCE and CCNA right now. . . .
At least nothing is going to be as tough as the MCSE tests. RHCE is just one test and so is the CCNA! Piece of cake compared!

bosox79

07-30-2003, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by fergz
am not RHCE but i would like to get the certs but a need to learn linux first

I am considering getting my RHCE everything I have learned and linux and nix in general has been self taught or with the help of friends:D , but to tell you the truth I am getting kinda burnt out on computer courses. I prefer to learn things on my own;) and to roadorange it would not hurt to get your RHCE they can be spendy though $$ at least IMHO. I feel that my MCSE was a waste of time & money:(

just my .02

fergz

07-30-2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by bosox79
I am considering getting my RHCE everything I have learned and linux and nix in general has been self taught or with the help of friends:D , but to tell you the truth I am getting kinda burnt out on computer courses. I prefer to learn things on my own;) and to roadorange it would not hurt to get your RHCE they can be spendy though $$ at least IMHO. I feel that my MCSE was a waste of time & money:(

just my .02

I would agree i preffer to learn things my own way and on these fourms everybody helps each other if they can. The best things in life are FREE.

bosox79

07-30-2003, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by CCNAwanna
I'm currently an MCSE, and working on RHCE and CCNA right now. . . .
At least nothing is going to be as tough as the MCSE tests. RHCE is just one test and so is the CCNA! Piece of cake compared!

at least nothing is going to be as tough as the MCSE:D :)
I think the RHCE will be much tougher I believe the test has at least 3 sections 1 written and two hands on.
here is some more info http://www.redhat.com/about/presscenter/2000/press_training.html

CCNAwanna

07-30-2003, 10:08 PM

Ah, but don' t be fooled grasshopper! RHCE test is MUCH easier than 7 three hour MCSE tests! By far. I took the RHCE pre-exam, and it was a BREEZE. By the way, the LINUX+ exam was only 2.5 hours, (one test), and THAT was a breeze! Nothing and I mean nothing compares to the 7 MCSE exams, especially the MCSE 2000 exams. Only Windows haters and jealousy freeks say that MCSE was "easy" or not as tough as the rest. Of COURSE people say that, they are simply jealous. Did you know that the Government, both at the Federal and State level REQUIRE an MCSE to even get one's foot in the tech door!? Yep, it's true (that's where I'm at right now.)

bosox79

07-30-2003, 10:12 PM

CCNAwanna

07-30-2003, 10:15 PM

don't worry, you fell for it, as do a lot of newbies. There are a lot of windows haters out ther ebecause they lack the expertise as the MCSE's have. Sad really. It's best really to get MCSE, RHCE, CCNP, CNA, etc. and do it ALL. This way, you're always in the door no matter where you apply.

mart_man00

07-30-2003, 10:44 PM

Did you know that the Government, both at the Federal and State level REQUIRE an MCSE to even get one's foot in the tech door!? Yep, it's true (that's where I'm at right now.)
That scares me.

Your kidding right? I know some places do run unix, but that many places are windows only?

CCNAwanna

07-30-2003, 11:50 PM

Yes, it's definitely true. The require an MCSE no matter what the technical position is for. They KNOW what it takes to achieve the MCSE and what skills it requires to pass all seven exams. Even in UNIX environments, the MCSE exam 70.216 directly applies because of the subnetting, IP addressing, routing, etc. They fiture you can learn the UNIX commands pretty easily if you've managed to get through seven Microsoft exams. I'm currently in an environment that has three domains and 26 sites! One domain is Solaris Unix with many Red Hat workstations. The sole requirement for the position was "MCSE" bachelors degree and some "Unix experience.

mart_man00

07-30-2003, 11:53 PM

Why do they want MS when theres Cisco?

Is that section that good? I thought Cisco had the best certs.

Its too early for me to do this stuff but maybe ill look into this. I aways thought of MCSEs as those tech support monkeys.

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:03 AM

Cisco is certainly not "the" certification. It's just too small. Cisco certs are ONLY for routers (routing) and switches (switching). Granted there is NOTHING better than Cisco if you want to do routing and switching. But Cisco is not even close to what MCSE offers. An MCSE can do e v e r y t h i n g. I tell you from experience. MCSE covers many, many areas. Everything from advanced subnetting, routing (RIP, OSPF, etc.)... to hardware stuff like RAID configurations, SCSI chains, NOS diaster recovery and even things like mail services(!) (Exchange, etc.). Cisco JUST covers two items, nothing more.

mart_man00

07-31-2003, 12:10 AM

Maybe ill stop mocking MS for awhile now....

I think ill look into this now. Is this very windows centric or does it have alot of concepts? Is this something that would teach me alot or something to get me in the door?

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:18 AM

Microsoft already assumes you know networking very well (the 10baseT from the 10BaseF, RJ-45 from the.....) and so they go way beyond and teach you how networks work together. They teach you how to integrate Unix, MAC, OS/2 into a Windows enviornment (where are you going to learn that?), things like how many users per server, how many processes per Megabyte of RAM, etc. etc. etc... and so much more. So yes, it's something you can absolutely learn from and in fact, you'll be so much better off that you'll be kissing your own *** when you've completed all seven exams just becuase of the big brain you'll have.

Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379

07-31-2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by CCNAwanna
Cisco is certainly not "the" certification. It's just too small. Cisco certs are ONLY for routers (routing) and switches (switching). Granted there is NOTHING better than Cisco if you want to do routing and switching. But Cisco is not even close to what MCSE offers. An MCSE can do e v e r y t h i n g. I tell you from experience. MCSE covers many, many areas. Everything from advanced subnetting, routing (RIP, OSPF, etc.)... to hardware stuff like RAID configurations, SCSI chains, NOS diaster recovery and even things like mail services(!) (Exchange, etc.). Cisco JUST covers two items, nothing more.

I wouldn't put too much stock in this statement. Though I am not a CCNA, I completed all of the CCNA curriculm as part of my AAS degree requirement.

When you get your CCNA, you will, of course, be able to setup Cisco routers and switches, as CCNAwanna stated. However, I felt that the courses and the tests I took made you demonstrate a proficiency in all things Networking. When I say Networking, I don't mean anything about the client or the server OSes. I mean subnetting/supernetting, TCP/IP principles, port numbers, routing protocols, IPX/SPX, the OSI model, (and how it relates to the TCP/IP model), making cables, and a TON of other stuff. By the time you have earned your CCNA, you are supposed to be able to physically design a network from the ground up, determine your IP addressing needs, and provide connectivity for your machines to the internet. You should also be able to set up Access Control Lists on a Cisco router to provide a beginning amount of protection for your network.

Basically, when you get your CCNA, potential employers should know that you know your stuff when it comes to networking. Of course, like it was mentioned earlier, the MCSE tests do cover a great amount of this material. If you're planning on getting your MCSE, I'd say skip the CCNA test and save $110. If you have your MCSE, people will think you know how to network, too.

But, I can't comment on the RHCE. I feel it's too young. I'm planning on getting some type of UNIX cert next year. The RHCE isn't one I'm considering, though. Meanwhile, I am studying for my MCSE. At least where I live, Microsoft is the dominant player in the OS market. Being that I like to eat and keep my bills paid, I'm going to go where the money is...

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:32 AM

I wouldn't put too much stock in this statement. Though I am not a CCNA, I completed all of the CCNA curriculm as part of my AAS degree requirement.

Oh boy. Well, this is obviously coming from someone who DOESN'T have an MCSE or an CCNA. What I said was coming from a person who DOES have those certs and who has a lot more to boot. Take it from a professional with experience, MCSE is where you want to be. Cisco can come later....

Basically, when you get your CCNA, potential employers should know that you know your stuff when it comes to networking. Of course, like it was mentioned earlier, the MCSE tests do cover a great amount of this material. If you're planning on getting your MCSE, I'd say skip the CCNA test and save $110. If you have your MCSE, people will think you know how to network, too.

There you have it. As stated above, if you have your MCSE, they already know you know how to subnet, route and network. Plus, they know you are an expert on Windows! The best of everything. GET your MCSE.

mart_man00

07-31-2003, 12:40 AM

The best of everything
Windows is the best?

I was liking the idea untill that cam up. Is it that windows centric? Im sure they throw in parts since its their test, but do they go over the general concepts or is this a brain washing thing?

demian

07-31-2003, 12:43 AM

I got my MCSE when I was 16 back when NT4 was relatively new. I didn't bother to upgrade it though, I started using linux shortly after. If I could go in and just take the darn RHCE test and not have to attend the course I might get it. I heard they offer the one day test now but it is ~$800!!! Not worth if for me. I think certification is less important in linux - if you don't know your spit it is obvious, and if it is not your boss is dumb so it doesn't matter. RHCE looks pretty simple too, the advanced server 501 or whatever course looks cool but I hate Redhat's proprietary ooie gui stuff. RHCE encourages people to learn gui and not beneath the surface. I have a consultant friend who got mad at me for "breaking" the redhat add user tool (don't even know what it is called cause it is worthless) by adding users via ssh a bash script and a text file.
That other linux certification looks cool though - the open one.
So the point of this rant...Linux is still geeky and scary to most people in IT. RHCE is worhtless cauese if you can make a linux system work you are a god to most IT types. It is only worthwhile if you can't learn on your own - what are your doing using linux if that is you - or if your company pays for it and there is someone at your office smarter than you (I have yet to experience this so I can't help you there).

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:43 AM

Dude, and I mean Dude, ask another REAL Windows 2000 MCSE if what I've said isn't true. I'm a MCSE, MCSA, CCNA, A+, Network+, Security+, Linux+ and massive other program specific certs. I've been working professionally in the field for 10 years. If you can't believe what I'm telling you, then go your own route and don't listen to the pro's. It's the youngsters who think they know it all that fail. I didn't fail because I had a mentor who taught me the ways. Now... I'm making more $$$ than your mom and dad together. Go at it.

Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379

07-31-2003, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by CCNAwanna
Oh boy. Well, this is obviously coming from someone who DOESN'T have an MCSE or an CCNA. What I said was coming from a person who DOES have those certs and who has a lot more to boot. Take it from a professional with experience, MCSE is where you want to be. Cisco can come later....

What I was really trying to point out is that the CCNA is more than just routing and switching. It is supposed to be a benchmark of overall networking competance. Like I said, if you have this, a potential employer could be sure that you know how to network.

There you have it. As stated above, if you have your MCSE, they already know you know how to subnet, route and network. Plus, they know you are an expert on Windows! The best of everything. GET your MCSE.

There's nothing I'd disagree with in this statement. If anything, I'd recommend that the CCNA almost be used as a stepping stone for the MCSE, or other manufacturer's cert. Just like you said yourself, Microsoft assumes you already know about different network topologies and other fundamental networking concepts. You have to get that from somewhere, be it a class, practical experience, or cramming for another cert like the CCNA. If you already know that stuff, then by all means, go for the MCSE test, and you'll probably do okay without ever thinking about the CCNA for a second.

...But in the long run, this is all moot. I've met plenty of MCSEs/MCSAs, CCNA/CCNPs, and other certifed individuals who knew enough to pass the test, but couldn't network their way out of a paper bag. Then again, I know someone with no formal training in IT, and he's making $100k+ /yr doing consulting, database development, and performing duties as CIO of a nursing home chain. In my opinion, yes, certifications may help you get in the door, but having practical, application-oriented knowledge of your skills is what keeps you from getting thrown out the door you came in through.

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:49 AM

So the point of this rant...Linux is still geeky and scary to most people in IT. RHCE is worhtless cauese if you can make a linux system work you are a god to most IT types. It is only worthwhile if you can't learn on your own - WTF are your doing using linux if that is you - or if your company pays for it and there is someone at your office smarter than you (I have yet to experience this so I can't help you there).

HAHA, oh my my. This from a KID. I had my first UNIX (Sco version) network up and running before I ever even USED a mouse! Before there was even a Windows 3.1! (And I was had not even been laid yet!). So there you have it, another Windows hater who can't handle the fact that Linux/Unix is very easy to maintain, and Windows is much more difficult. Everyone in the REAL world knows this. Unix/Linux runs on IT"S OWN. It doesn't need a system admin. A secretary can make it go.

demian

07-31-2003, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by CCNAwanna
Ah, but don' t be fooled grasshopper! RHCE test is MUCH easier than 7 three hour MCSE tests! By far. I took the RHCE pre-exam, and it was a BREEZE. By the way, the LINUX+ exam was only 2.5 hours, (one test), and THAT was a breeze! Nothing and I mean nothing compares to the 7 MCSE exams, especially the MCSE 2000 exams. Only Windows haters and jealousy freeks say that MCSE was "easy" or not as tough as the rest. Of COURSE people say that, they are simply jealous. Did you know that the Government, both at the Federal and State level REQUIRE an MCSE to even get one's foot in the tech door!? Yep, it's true (that's where I'm at right now.)
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
I almost spewed when I read that!
I got my MCSE with ONLY self study and I took 15 on each exam. Actually I got my MCSE+Internet which is 9 exams. I took 4 on the same day in less than one hour. MCSE is the biggest ****ing joke in the world. Sorry to spit on your parage - I guess I shouldn't it is good motivation to learn your spit and a pretty good study guide, but the questions on the exams are ridiculous. Many assume a huge international site which maybe 1% of people would see and they shure as hell wouldn't base their megacorp backbone on just microsoft tech.
Yes I am a Windows hater - maybe I am just a good test taker, but those exams were easy like public school achievement tests!
RHCE looks much much harder (unless they let you use man on the hands on section)

demian

07-31-2003, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by mart_man00
That scares me.

Your kidding right? I know some places do run unix, but that many places are windows only?

Thats 90% bullspit. Most of the Federal govment was running netware and lotus software until very recently.

<This post and previous one edited by Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379. WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE!!!>

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:55 AM

I've met plenty of MCSEs/MCSAs, CCNA/CCNPs, and other certifed individuals who knew enough to pass the test, but couldn't network their way out of a paper bag. Then again, I know someone with no formal training in IT, and he's making $100k+ /yr doing consulting, database development, and performing duties as CIO of a nursing home chain. In my opinion, yes, certifications may help you get in the door, but having practical, application-oriented knowledge of your skills is what keeps you from getting thrown out the door you came in through.

Yes, this makes much sense. No cert can make you smarter than someone who is smarter than you. A cert can only make the individual smarter. The other person shouldn't even enter the equation. There are an abundance of over achievers out there in the world, and some have certs and some don't. Just remember this, if you're a genius or a dumbas*, all paths lead to the same end - don't work so hard.

CCNAwanna

07-31-2003, 12:59 AM

Thats 90% bullspit. Most of the Federal govment was running netware and lotus software until very recently.

Everyone out there: DON'T BELIEVE THIS CRAP. Just another window hater who can't stand others are smarter and more experienced than him. I WORK IN THE GOVERNMENT TECH SECTOR, and I know for a FACT there isn't ONE Netware or Lotus box in any Government program I know of. Those are all gone now and Windows and Unix has taken over!!! Most Windows now and soon, ALL WINDOWS. Yes, windows is more difficult and Linux/Unix people will NOT HAVE A JOB. SO, GET YOUR MCSE 2003 and forget what Windows haters (little children) say. Listen from a very experienced professional.

demian

07-31-2003, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by mart_man00
Why do they want MS when theres Cisco?

Is that section that good? I thought Cisco had the best certs.

Its too early for me to do this stuff but maybe ill look into this. I aways thought of MCSEs as those tech support monkeys.

Cisco is by very the best, and toughest. There are very very few CCIE. If you are a CCIE you get respect period. MCSE is very devalued since those ****ing boot camps sprang up everywhre. It is becoming more of a trade school cert like someone who goes to hair cutting trade school and works at supercuts. Cisco certs are very very specialized and not very practical IMHO unless you really like those areas. If you really want to work for a big ISP or for some HUGE Corp or University then cisco is cool. I got bored with cisco real quick though cause I am not that detailed and didn't want to memorize cisco IOS command. Besides now you can do most of the things a cisco router can do with a good linux or openbsd box for alot cheaper. I am an independent consultant so I would rather get paid more than have my clients shell out $5k for a cisco pix that is nothing but a pentium 233 with 64mb ram running a prorietary os.

mart_man00

07-31-2003, 01:07 AM

Now im confused!!! Im not sure who to beileve.

Why would teh gov be phasing out the unix? They still have security guides for it. What about their back ends?

Im not trying to insult you(im assuming you really do work there), it just makes no sense to me at all. Why? The price, performance, the fact that there alot of programmers who would preferer it or we hired because they were supposed to be able to pull it, why would they? What are you in(job and dept)?

I'm a MCSE, MCSA, CCNA, A+, Network+, Security+, Linux+ and massive other program specific certs.
Wow.

How much did that cost you(or would of cost you)? Any regreats? Some advice for a nerdy high schooler(me!)?

Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379

08-01-2003, 02:40 AM

I'm going to open this thread back up now, seeing as the trouble makers have apparently gone away.

...We now return you to your regularly scheduled RHCE discussion, already in progress.

mart_man00

08-01-2003, 04:04 PM

Its been awhile but can anyone talk alittle more about the MSCE thing?

Like how goof it really is? What is covered? Is it all MS-ified? Is it something that will teach you or just get you in the door? That kind of stuff

Thanks.

Icarus

08-01-2003, 04:14 PM

OK, for one...it's MCSE
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcse/default.asp) (for some reason I can't connect to www.microsoft.com right now, but Google tells me this is true :))

Second...this is a Linux site, if you want to know about Microsoft certs, go to Microsoft

Third...this thread could be closed again for going off topic as it is about Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)

Now back on topic...anyone have experiance with getting a RHCE? I'd like to hear more from someone that has

lrhogusa

08-07-2003, 12:22 AM

My state job is paying for my RHCE courses. I am taking them online. I enjoy learning at my own pace instead of the instructor's pace. The guy wanted to get done early enough on the last day so he could catch the early flight home.

Getting through the courses seems like a breeze compared to learning perl online. I've heard that the pass rate is about 40% for the RHCE exam. I think I got that info from RedHat's training website. Just check it out to make sure.

I liked the one post that said you had to be certified in order to get some sort of tech job in the federal or state government. I recently got a score of 100% on my application for a "senior computer systems analyst". I don't have any of the mentioned certificates and yes, I got the job. The state actually gave ya points for practical experience. If you're wondering, no I didn't lie on my application.