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hey, I have some dodgy HIS Radeon 9600 Pro and I was wondering if it not being built by ATI could be causing some of my problems in getting it running. I am thinking about swapping it since I've had quite a bit of trouble getting it to work with linux, however everything seems to be boards built by brands other than ATI such as Saphire or Powercolor or whatever. I thought I'd swap it for an earlier card such as a 9700 pro it may be easier to get running since ATI has actually released drivers for the earlier cards, however I can only find the 'powered by ATI boards' and am wondering if I could still run into problems because of this.
I could also just ditch ATI because of their poor linux support, and get an Nvidia 5600fx, but everyone seems to be so critical of those cards these days and how much better ATI are.
This is really killing me, maybe I should just keep my HIS Radeon 9600 pro
(I hope that made sence)
bwkaz
07-20-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by eX0
I could also just ditch ATI because of their poor linux support, and get an Nvidia 5600fx, but everyone seems to be so critical of those cards these days and how much better ATI are. If I were you, I'd just completely ignore whoever is saying this.
Sure, the ATI cards might be 2 frames per second faster at Q3 in Windows (or whatever), but the Linux drivers, even for supported boards, aren't all that great. And when both the FX and the higher-level Radeons are running at well over 300 fps anyway, 2 fps more isn't actually even statistically significant.
When you get an FX5600 working in Linux, running Doom 3 (if it ever gets released... ;)), you may well end up wondering why you were ever thinking about ATI. I know I did -- and I absolutely hated nVidia for quite a while (for the way they took over 3dfx -- they bought the company's assets, and totally disclaimed any responsibility for the company's liabilities, so they wrote no drivers for current 3dfx card owners at all), until I got a Radeon 7500 (this was about a year ago, when the 8500 was the best you could get, but it had no 3D support in Linux at all). It ran absolutely dog-slow, about half the speed of my GF2 GTS. Could have just been a crappy card, that is possible, but I realized how much less hit-and-miss the nVidia drivers really were -- at least, for me. I ended up getting a GF4 Ti4200 instead, and never looked back. If Doom 3 requires it, I may upgrade in the near future, to an FX something. But I'd rather wait for the NV35 (if that's not the FX5900 that I just saw the other day...).
OK, anyway, now that I'm done... ;)
Critics of the card or not, the thing works in Linux. ATI, well, I wouldn't count on it. Whether the card is built by ATI or only powered by ATI -- the difference doesn't matter as far as the drivers are concerned anyway, since the basic GPU is exactly the same in either case.
MorphiusFaydal
07-20-2003, 01:09 PM
ditch the ati card and get an NVidia... better linux support, and the FX series outperforms the Radeon 9800 Pro by a lot...
NV35 is the newest of the NVidia cards.. i know its in the FX5900.. its alos probably in several other FXs... NV40 is the next one.. and its going to be PCI Express only...
NVidia does intend to make more AGP cards, NV36 and NV35x... but thats after NV40 gets released... and then no more NVidia AGP cards... but thats at least a year away....
enjoy....
chris
mandrakeroot
07-20-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by MorphiusFaydal
ditch the ati card and get an NVidia... better linux support, and the FX series outperforms the Radeon 9800 Pro by a lot...
NV35 is the newest of the NVidia cards.. i know its in the FX5900.. its alos probably in several other FXs... NV40 is the next one.. and its going to be PCI Express only...
NVidia does intend to make more AGP cards, NV36 and NV35x... but thats after NV40 gets released... and then no more NVidia AGP cards... but thats at least a year away....
enjoy....
chris
ex0:
Check the link in my signature. THose drivers are extremely easy compared to ati's Dont give up!
9600 is basically the 9700 but isnt as fast so you wont have an easier (or harder) time setting it up.
MY 2 CENTS:
I dont like it when people tell someone to throw out something they just spent 200 bucks on and buy something else that costs even more just because they do not know how to get it working. It would be more constructive to give a link to some different drivers that do work. My Radeon 9500pro works well and has very good frame rates in Linux.
bwkaz
07-20-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by MorphiusFaydal
NV35 is the newest of the NVidia cards.. i know its in the FX5900.. its alos probably in several other FXs... NV40 is the next one.. and its going to be PCI Express only... IIRC, the FX5200, FX5600 and FX5800 are not NV35's, they're NV30, 32, and 34 (or something like that). The 5900 may be a 35, I don't know.
NVidia does intend to make more AGP cards, NV36 and NV35x... but thats after NV40 gets released... and then no more NVidia AGP cards... but thats at least a year away.... Whoa... I hadn't heard that one. Why? Got any links handy?
Cheers for all the replys
mandrakeroot, I plan on returnting my card to the shop either way and swapping it for something else, I'm just not sure whether the get proper ATI built 9600 Pro, or perhap a 5600FX. I've tried those drivers and couldn't it working (my thread about that is here: http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106722)
From what I heard the Radeon 5600fx is only slightly better than the 5200fx and its twice the price and it seems to me that ATI is a little more than "2 FPS" better than the nvidia cards.
I also heard the only worthwhile nvidia card is the 5900 and thats way out of my price range.
So my options are to put it more clearly:
a. Get an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro (Built by ATI)
b. Get a Radeon 9700 pro or non-pro (Built or not built by ATI) <- - - This is a little more expensive but I'll consider paying
c. Get an nvidia 5600FX (I was looking at leadtek, are they any good?)
- Either way I'm gonna return my current card and get something else.
Is support for the nvidia much better than support for the older radeon cards such as the 9700, I mean if I get a Radeon 9700 will it be easy to get running (compared to 9600)
dsfh24
07-21-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by mandrakeroot
ex0:
Check the link in my signature. THose drivers are extremely easy compared to ati's Dont give up!
9600 is basically the 9700 but isnt as fast so you wont have an easier (or harder) time setting it up.
MY 2 CENTS:
I dont like it when people tell someone to throw out something they just spent 200 bucks on and buy something else that costs even more just because they do not know how to get it working. It would be more constructive to give a link to some different drivers that do work. My Radeon 9500pro works well and has very good frame rates in Linux.
Do those drivers work with KT400 mobo's ? I tried those drivers before on my rig and they do not work on my A7V8X mobo and I hear they also have issues with NForce boards as well I think.
P.S. Just tried them out and they do not work with my pc. They are pretty much worthless for me but for others they may work. Then again I won't make the mistake of selecting a ATI card ever again. I am going to stick with Nvidia all the way. My previous card a GF 2 Pro worked flawlessly with Nvidia's great driver support in Linux. To bad ATI has pretty much abandoned their Linux customers. All we have left is 3rd party support from some company in Germany.
Yeh, I also have an A7V8X, however I did find a patch somewhere for it to work with the KT400, but since I havn't been able to set up the drivers properly yet I can't tell you if it worked...
dalek
07-21-2003, 02:55 AM
I just built my system and my card is a cheaper one but it works great for me. I downloaded the driver, booted into failsafe, installed, rebooted and it worked fine. I use Mandrake 9.1 and am very happy with it. I was told that ATI is "bad" for Linux. Link to my info request: http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105394
IMHO: I would get a NVIDIA card while you can exchange it.
Good luck!!!
:D :D :D
every second that goes by I'm ticking further towards the 5600fx, I just don't want to regret it later when I go to play games on the high resolution and quality settings and not being able to like I can with my 9600 pro right now. (on windows)
GeForce FX 5900 is 35
Also why are they going to pci? where is the info on that?
probably going in tomorrow afternoon to trade it for a 5600 or 5800fx, still deciding.
Fingers crossed that I don't get home and install it only to find out that games etc... in windows run significantly worse, if that happens i'll cry :(
I hate making decisions like this, cause I always make the wrong ones
MorphiusFaydal
07-21-2003, 01:12 PM
i got my information from The Register...
www.theregister.co.uk...
heres a link to the story in question...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/31128.html
also... where i said NV35x... thats supposed top be NV36x..
fun stuff huh...
chris
bwkaz
07-21-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by eX0
Fingers crossed that I don't get home and install it only to find out that games etc... in windows run significantly worse, if that happens i'll cry :( In my experience, if the game was written for Linux (like RtCW's Linux client, and like RtCW: ET, and like UT2k3, and like Unreal Tournament the original), then they run better. This is on a GF4 Ti4200.
You won't have issues with not being able to use high resolutions -- assuming your refresh rate ranges are set up correctly in your XF86Config-4 (or XF86Config if the other doesn't exist) file. Make sure HorizSync and VertRefresh are OK (make ABSOLUTELY sure they match what the monitor mfr. says the specs are on the monitor), and if you still aren't able to get it, try adding Option "IgnoreEDIDs" "1" to your XF86Config Device section. But this can damage the monitor, if the HorizSync / VertRefresh aren't right, so check them first.
MorphiusFaydal -- Ohh, I get it. PCI Express, not just plain PCI. That makes a lot more sense, now that I read the Register article, and reread your original post. I didn't notice the "Express" last time. :D Oops.
thanks for the info bekwas but I meant games in windows running significantly worse than they do now with my radeon 9600 pro....
I'm gonna probably get the Leadtek A310TD FX 5600 VIVO (http://www.leadtek.com/3d_graphic/winfast_a310_td_myvivo_1.html), not sure whether its worth paying the extra $30 for 256mb or not, I heard it makes no differance, if theres even I slight increadse in performance I'll get the 256 though, anyone advise me on this?
Also any advice on whether that cards any good would be good.
Oh yeh and are there any known compatability problems with this card and linux?
mdwatts
07-22-2003, 05:12 AM
The Leadtek will use the same Nvidia chipset as all the other Nvidia branded video cards except they may use a different board (color etc.) and heatsink/fan.
I'm not sure if the 256mb will give you that much of a increased performance or not. I did purchase the FX 5600 (non ultra) recently, but still haven't put it in my pc yet to replace my GF3 Ti200. If $30 will not break the bank, go for it.
You will need the latest version of X (4.3.?) and/or the Nvidia drivers.
bwkaz
07-22-2003, 11:13 PM
256MB may not help now, but it'll help when you install and try to run Doom 3 for Linux. :D
At that point, the more stuff (texture data) you can get into video RAM, the better off you'll be.
The 128 vs. 256 thing won't matter unless you're using programs that really need a LOT of video memory. Doom 3 is one of those. In that case, the 256 would be faster (fewer system-memory accesses).
spagnitz
07-23-2003, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by dsfh24
Do those drivers work with KT400 mobo's ? I tried those drivers before on my rig and they do not work on my A7V8X mobo and I hear they also have issues with NForce boards as well I think.
P.S. Just tried them out and they do not work with my pc. They are pretty much worthless for me but for others they may work. Then again I won't make the mistake of selecting a ATI card ever again. I am going to stick with Nvidia all the way. My previous card a GF 2 Pro worked flawlessly with Nvidia's great driver support in Linux. To bad ATI has pretty much abandoned their Linux customers. All we have left is 3rd party support from some company in Germany.
I believe they can be made to work with the KT400, try doing an
insmod agpgart agp_try_unsupported=1
and then a
insmod fglrx
then see if the xserver runs,
If this doesn't work I believe there is a patch that will let you use the schneider digital drivers, go to rage3d.com, the forums area, linux and search for kt400.
andysimmons
07-26-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by bwkaz
If I were you, I'd just completely ignore whoever is saying this.....And when both the FX and the higher-level Radeons are running at well over 300 fps anyway, 2 fps more isn't actually even statistically significant.
Don't take this the wrong way, because I do love Nvidia....
NVidia's image quality sucks, they were caught cheating on the 3DMark tests, and who the heck is going to buy an expensive graphics card to get 300 fps???? I didn't buy my 9800 Pro so I could get triple-digit framerates on old games...I got it because I want to play new games as well, and NVidia can't even come close to ATI when you compare performance, image quality, and price.
You're right about the drivers though, NVidia's great with those. I'm also not saying their cards all suck, it's just that they don't compete with ATI when you look at cost AND image quality AND framerates for DX9/OGL2 based games.
andysimmons
07-26-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by eX0
I'm gonna probably get the Leadtek A310TD FX 5600 VIVO (http://www.leadtek.com/3d_graphic/winfast_a310_td_myvivo_1.html)....Also any advice on whether that cards any good would be good.
I had one for a week and took it back. There was literally almost no noticeable difference between that and my 64 meg (overclocked) GF3. Check some benchmarks before you buy. I'd either spend the extra cash to get a FX 5900, or go ATI. At least the 5900 has a decent GPU, and you have the constant Linux driver releases.