What Would You Remove from UNIX?

[nko]

There's another post somewhere around here about what people would like to get if they could get any part of Windows. Seeing as we all know why UNIX (and its variants) is good and "M$" is evil, and we've got the question floating around about what part of Windows is good, I ask this:

What part(s) of UNIX do you think are bad, defunct, wrong, overly legacy, etc?

[CMonster]

SCO -I would remove SCO from UNIX

[cjanscen]

I assume you're talking about linux? alright then! I would remove the GNU C/C++ library, replace it with uclibc, then remove all this damn legacy support (sym links here, this there...compatibility has to broken sometime), and does any of this compatibilty stuff even apply anymore? Replace X windows with something more modern, make bash-completion like the best completion ever implemented...4DOS's! Change the file hierarchy / make it robust / configurable (how about something akin to an environment variable that specifies the various directory locations: ie $BIN ='/programs', $MAN ='/help', etc) ... so the directory hierarchy could look more like OSX's

[mrBen]

Originally posted by cjanscen
I assume you're talking about linux? alright then! I would remove the GNU C/C++ library, replace it with uclibc, then remove all this damn legacy support (sym links here, this there...compatibility has to broken sometime), and does any of this compatibilty stuff even apply anymore? Replace X windows with something more modern, make bash-completion like the best completion ever implemented...4DOS's! Change the file hierarchy / make it robust / configurable (how about something akin to an environment variable that specifies the various directory locations: ie $BIN ='/programs', $MAN ='/help', etc) ... so the directory hierarchy could look more like OSX's

So, basically everything?

[terribleRobbo]

Originally posted by mrBen
So, basically everything?

Pretty much. :rolleyes:

You sure you don't want OS X instead, cjanscen?

[Stween]

Originally posted by cjanscen
I assume you're talking about linux? alright then! I would remove the GNU C/C++ library, replace it with uclibc, then remove all this damn legacy support (sym links here, this there...compatibility has to broken sometime), and does any of this compatibilty stuff even apply anymore? Replace X windows with something more modern, make bash-completion like the best completion ever implemented...4DOS's! Change the file hierarchy / make it robust / configurable (how about something akin to an environment variable that specifies the various directory locations: ie $BIN ='/programs', $MAN ='/help', etc) ... so the directory hierarchy could look more like OSX's

Well, there's nothing stopping you from doing those things yourself. If you wanted, you could then distribute that yourself and try and make some money off it in the process.

But it's a lot of work, for something that I don't think is broken in the first place :)

[Artimus]

Originally posted by cjanscen
I assume you're talking about linux? alright then! I would remove the GNU C/C++ library, replace it with uclibc, then remove all this damn legacy support (sym links here, this there...compatibility has to broken sometime), and does any of this compatibilty stuff even apply anymore? Replace X windows with something more modern, make bash-completion like the best completion ever implemented...4DOS's! Change the file hierarchy / make it robust / configurable (how about something akin to an environment variable that specifies the various directory locations: ie $BIN ='/programs', $MAN ='/help', etc) ... so the directory hierarchy could look more like OSX's

Replace glibc with uclibc:
This I would agree with. uclibc can make the binaries many times smaller then.

Legacy Support:
Not a clue what that is, moving on...

Replace X windows:
I love X. It runs fine for what I need it to do. However if you feel inclined to write your own, I will test it out after the first release.

Bash Completion:
What's wrong with it now?

Change the Filesystem Hierarchy:
I've been thinking about doing this too. This would require changing of the kernel, and all of the software. More work then its worth, more then likely. And think about how messy /programs will get. But, it would be nice to have.

And finally I have to agree with another poster. SCO needs to be removed from Linux.

[Icarus]

I would get ride of that pesky command line terminal thingy...there is nothing more troublesome then typing a long cryptic command to get something to run

While were at it, the mouse and keyboard should be removed completely...carpal tunnel just waiting to happen with those things. And the monitor...we don't need that, ruins our eyesight!

and cables, they get in the way all the time, I'm always tripping over these things!


</sarcasm>
in case someone thinks I'm serious :D

[hlrguy]

Originally posted by mahdi
While were at it, the mouse and keyboard should be removed completely...carpal tunnel just waiting to happen with those things. And the monitor...we don't need that, ruins our eyesight!
</sarcasm>
in case someone thinks I'm serious :D

Let me know when you have that BMI (Brain Machine Interface) completed. I have been looking for one of those for a while, but Best Buy always seems to be sold out. :)

Seriously though, I don't see anything that gives me any heartburn in UNIX/Linux that needs to be removed. My wife (redhat for 4 months now) even knows that /mnt means, 'Oh mounted things like my camera, zip drive'.

hlrguy

[Icarus]

Originally posted by hlrguy
Let me know when you have that BMI (Brain Machine Interface) completed. I have been looking for one of those for a while, but Best Buy always seems to be sold out. :)

Seriously though, I don't see anything that gives me any heartburn in UNIX/Linux that needs to be removed. My wife (redhat for 4 months now) even knows that /mnt means, 'Oh mounted things like my camera, zip drive'.

hlrguy I'm getting closer, just need a few more test subjects...I'm fresh out, they just need to sign a few disclaimers :)

While at Best Buy, ask for some IRQ ports also...those are ALWAYS on order as they just can't seem to keep them in stock!

My wife gets a kick out of the term 'mounting devices'...even though she knows the real meaning ;)

[cjanscen]

If OS-X was ported to x86/intel, it would probably be the only OS I would ever pay money for...

OS-X is seriously a beautiful collection of software, wanna run an x-application? Start an x-session.

But that mouse would have to be fixed....

[jedthehumanoid]

Originally posted by mahdi
I would get ride of that pesky command line terminal thingy...there is nothing more troublesome then typing a long cryptic command to get something to run

While were at it, the mouse and keyboard should be removed completely...carpal tunnel just waiting to happen with those things. And the monitor...we don't need that, ruins our eyesight!

and cables, they get in the way all the time, I'm always tripping over these things!


</sarcasm>
in case someone thinks I'm serious :D

no no, all that stuff is fine. the problem lies in the processor. get rid of that and you've got an ideal paperweight! just like a windoze box except less noise pollution.:D :D :D :D

[sasKuatch]

Yeah!

/programs would be great! *wink*

Nothing like having a directory with several tens of thousand files to look through when the directory finishes loading after 10 minutes.

Sorry, I had to. I can't stand windows'es huge, monolithic c;/windows directory where everything from internet files, libraries, help files, programs, settings, screen savers, wallpapers, virii, even a complete other OS:eek: (DOS), and not to mention all the sounds and the registry, temporary files, etc , everything goes. Everything in that one, retarded directory.

I hate windows!! *foaming at mouth*:mad:

I can tell you what needs to be removed from my Linux, my windows partition!! *drooling, jittering with rage*

(:p j/k I should write bargain bin books :D )

[raz0rblade]

Nothing! Linux is everything i would want it to be :)

[hlrguy]

Originally posted by mahdi
My wife gets a kick out of the term 'mounting devices'...even though she knows the real meaning ;)

Gives me an idea, link /dev/usb1 to /dev/thedog, then ...rest left to imagination.

My favorite Best Buy overheard quote 'Maam, these are the best speaker wires to get, but remember, they are one way and the gold lead needs to connect to positive and the silver lead to the negative'

Thinking, next time, asking for a pack of 12 command prompts.

hlrguy

[nko]

I don't like the idea of /programs, but I think it'd make more sense than /usr/bin ;)

[andysimmons]

What the heck is wrong with bash's tab completion?

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by nko
I don't like the idea of /programs, but I think it'd make more sense than /usr/bin ;) \

I dunno... /usr/bin makes sense to me...

Binaries for users... they're not as important as the ones in /bin, so they'd need their own seperate directory...

Personally, I'm not sure what I'd remove. I like X, because I actually use the client/server functions of it. I don't really think it's bloated, either.

I like bash shell completion. There are even hacks you can use to make it read variable in makefiles.

Okay... I figured it out. This is what I'd change. This suggestion is SUPER nitpicky, but it bugs the crap out of me, as many versions of UNIX do it in some form or another:

Put /usr/libexec in root's PATH by default.

It's annoying as crap when I know the command exists, and I look for it all in /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin, etc, to no avail, only to feel stupid when I realize it's been in /usr/libexec all along... I know I can add it into my PATH myself, but I'm too lazy to do it. Apparently, I'm not to lazy to sit here and complain about it, though...

[hop-frog]

Originally posted by andysimmons
What the heck is wrong with bash's tab completion? Tab completion is good in Mandrake, but it sucks in SuSE. Does anyone know how I can bring the features from Mandrake over to SuSE?

This is just one example output from Mandrake:

.
. $ ls <enter>
. public_html documents desktop
. $ cd *p <tab>
. $ cd desktop <enter>
. $
.

When I hit <tab> it autocompleted the front 6 letters.

[nouse66]

Originally posted by hop-frog
Tab completion is good in Mandrake, but it sucks in SuSE. Does anyone know how I can bring the features from Mandrake over to SuSE?

This is just one example output from Mandrake:

.
. $ ls <enter>
. public_html documents desktop
. $ cd *p <tab>
. $ cd desktop <enter>
. $
.

When I hit <tab> it autocompleted the front 6 letters.

it might be the version of bash you have. i'm running gentoo with bash version 2.05b and the example you gave worked for me. (btw, thanks for mentioning that, i never knew i could do that :))

one thing i dont like about the filesystem is the /usr/local directory. why is that nescesary? what's the difference between what deserves to go in /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin?

[stiles]

Originally posted by nouse66


one thing i dont like about the filesystem is the /usr/local directory. why is that nescesary? what's the difference between what deserves to go in /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin?

this (http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/fhs-4.9.html) is the difference.

[hop-frog]

Originally posted by nouse66
it might be the version of bash you have. i'm running gentoo with bash version 2.05b and the example you gave worked for me. (btw, thanks for mentioning that, i never knew i could do that :))
Mandrake 8.0 came with Bash 2.04. SuSE 8.0 has 2.05.

[do_guh_new]

I assume you're talking about linux? alright then! I would remove the GNU C/C++ library, replace it with uclibc, then remove all this damn legacy support (sym links here, this there...compatibility has to broken sometime), and does any of this compatibilty stuff even apply anymore? Replace X windows with something more modern, make bash-completion like the best completion ever implemented...4DOS's! Change the file hierarchy / make it robust / configurable (how about something akin to an environment variable that specifies the various directory locations: ie $BIN ='/programs', $MAN ='/help', etc) ... so the directory hierarchy could look more like OSX's

Heresey!

[nko]

I think there are a number of issues that aren't big enough to do anything about, but they add up. They're annoying, but the "eh, whaddaya gonna do?" attitude surrounds it. I'd do something about it, but... eh, whaddam I gonna do?

[hop-frog]

I never really liked this copy and paste system. Highlight/Middle click is just as crummy as hitting CTRL+C/V. Does anyone know of an OS that does this differently (and better)?

[hlrguy]

Originally posted by hop-frog
I never really liked this copy and paste system. Highlight/Middle click is just as crummy as hitting CTRL+C/V. Does anyone know of an OS that does this differently (and better)?

Different strokes...I pray that Linux never loses this or it is back to Solaris. I don't see how cutting 9 pages from OpenOffice to Mozilla (and blew me away when the font, color, size and format were preserved, EVEN TABLES) without touching the keyboard is a bad thing. I use this all the time.

Althought, reading your post literally, CTRL+C is using the keyboard, and the Linux way is with the mouse...wouldn't you need at least one of these two input devices? :D

EDIT: My Solaris workstation at work has both a copy and a past button. Highlight, press copy, place cursor, press paste. I still prefer the middle mouse click though /EDIT

hlrguy

[hlrguy]

Ahhh, heard of that before. You just have to get used to delete, copy, paste instead of copy, highlight, paste. The biggest thing I like though, is it is automatic...no waiting the 1-3 seconds (extremely annyoing) for the right click paste option to show up.

hlrguy

[Haunted]

uh, after using Linux for a year still can't stand it's copy-paste philosophy...

hlrguy
In my opinion using both keyboard and mouse together gives more control over what I cut and paste rather just mouse or just keyboard... It also applies to FPS and strategy games by the way.

[dlausevic]

Originally posted by raz0rblade
Nothing! Linux is everything i would want it to be :)

Here here!!

[retoon]

I don't want to high jack this thread, so I would like to simply draw the attention of hlrguy. I am currently working on standing up a certificate authority, through RSA, and am going to be placing the final root CA underneath Solaris 7 platform. I was hoping, as I have little to no experience with Solaris, that we might be able to touch base with one another. I am basically looking for large differences between linux, which I am familiar with, and Solaris. Or even recommendations on books about Solaris, that I might be able to read. Any information is truly appreciated. My email address is retoon@access4free.com
Thank you.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by CMonster
SCO -I would remove SCO from UNIX

He,he....that was my answer before I turned the page on this thread.

[cjanscen]

This is how it works:

your at the comamnd prompt:

hit <TAB>, it will cycle through every commmand you can execute in your $PATH.

type:

ls file<TAB>

it will cycle through every file that matches that, example:
(assuming "file[0-15]" )

ls file<TAB>
# puts 'ls file0'

ls file<TAB>
# puts 'ls file1'

etc

the whole point is:no annoying beeps, and to get to 'file3' , just hit : 'ls <TAB><TAB><TAB><TAB>'

You don't even have to know what is in the current dir, you can <TAB>/cycle through every file...but don't take my word, go and somehow use jpsoft's 4DOS, it is truly an ingenious piece of software...

As soo as I can program something like that, It will be done, by god!

[Strogian]

Originally posted by cjanscen
This is how it works:

your at the comamnd prompt:

hit <TAB>, it will cycle through every commmand you can execute in your $PATH.

type:

ls file<TAB>

it will cycle through every file that matches that, example:
(assuming "file[0-15]" )

ls file<TAB>
# puts 'ls file0'

ls file<TAB>
# puts 'ls file1'

etc

the whole point is:no annoying beeps, and to get to 'file3' , just hit : 'ls <TAB><TAB><TAB><TAB>'

You don't even have to know what is in the current dir, you can <TAB>/cycle through every file...but don't take my word, go and somehow use jpsoft's 4DOS, it is truly an ingenious piece of software...

As soo as I can program something like that, It will be done, by god!

I think you can do that with bash. Some setting in the .inputrc file..

[MMA]

The thing that i will change about UNIX, is the 'U'

yes. isn't NIX much better then UNIX?


:D:D:D

PS: i'm not drunk

[JohnT]

I think just "Ix' sometimes is the way to go, especially when compiling..........U-m-m where did I put that cold-medicine:p

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by cjanscen
This is how it works:

your at the comamnd prompt:

hit <TAB>, it will cycle through every commmand you can execute in your $PATH.

type:

ls file<TAB>

it will cycle through every file that matches that, example:
(assuming "file[0-15]" )

ls file<TAB>
# puts 'ls file0'

ls file<TAB>
# puts 'ls file1'

etc

the whole point is:no annoying beeps, and to get to 'file3' , just hit : 'ls <TAB><TAB><TAB><TAB>'

You don't even have to know what is in the current dir, you can <TAB>/cycle through every file...but don't take my word, go and somehow use jpsoft's 4DOS, it is truly an ingenious piece of software...

As soo as I can program something like that, It will be done, by god! So basically, you want Windows XP's command prompt's tab completion (yet another thing that Microsoft stole?). It acts exactly like that, and it's EXTREMELY annoying (to me). I like being able to see what's in a directory -- because in order to get to the fifth (for example) file, I would have to know what else was in the directory anyway, and if the tab completion won't tell me, what's the point?

No, thanks.

Just MHO, though. ;)

[hop-frog]

.
. $ cd d <tab>
. $ cd downloads development documents <tab>
. $ cd downloads development downloads <tab>
. $ cd downloads development downloads <enter>
. $
.

Would this work?

[bwkaz]

Ooooh, that would be pretty... :D I wonder how you could get the lighter (or darker, depending on the background of the terminal) color text, though...

[hlrguy]

Originally posted by retoon
I don't want to high jack this thread, so I would like to simply draw the attention of hlrguy.

Sent an email...more info on Monday.

hlrguy

[Strogian]

Originally posted by bwkaz
Ooooh, that would be pretty... :D I wonder how you could get the lighter (or darker, depending on the background of the terminal) color text, though...

Don't terminals normally do bold text?

[bwkaz]

Yeah, they do. I didn't even think about that. :o

I wonder how hard it'd be to do that in a cross-platform way... hmmm... and I wonder if the bash people would want the code to do it.

[hop-frog]

Originally posted by bwkaz
and I wonder if the bash people would want the code to do it. Unless you know of a shell that already does this, the bash developers would have to figure it out themselves. I'm also not sure how this would work in very large directories.

Another idea. Gun clip style tabbing:

Take special note of the line numbering that is going on in this example. Lines 2, 2, and 2 are the very same line. When you hit tab the text appears next to the same line you were typing on, in some cases replacing text that was already there.


1 . $
2 . $ cd d
<no return or tab needed here, the following automatically appears>

2 . $ cd documents
.........development
.........downloads
<tab>

2 . $ cd development
.........downloads
.........documents
<tab>

2 . $ cd downloads
.........documents
.........development
<enter>

3 . $ (you are now in the downloads directory)

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by hop-frog
Unless you know of a shell that already does this, the bash developers would have to figure it out themselves. I'm also not sure how this would work in very large directories. Heh, no, I meant I was thinking about how to do it, and was going to try to contribute it to bash (if I ever got it working). :)

Another idea. Gun clip style tabbing: Oooh, that one looks nifty too. ;)

[JohnT]

I'd go for some flash animation:p

[hlrguy]

Originally posted by JohnT
I'd go for some flash animation:p

Ok, here you go. :p

http://www.bestflashanimationsite.com/bestflashsite.htm

hlrguy

[JohnT]

Originally posted by hlrguy
Ok, here you go. :p

http://www.bestflashanimationsite.com/bestflashsite.htm

hlrguy

In bash , dude.:p