Debian is a pain in the ***

[wolfman8k]

Ahhh! I downloaded Debian 2.2r5(i think it's potatoe), and installed it.

First time, I chose advanced package control. It took me about 4 hours to select all the ones that I wanted, and then another about 2 hours for the actual installation and configuration. When I finally logged in, I first wanted to get X working, so I configured it with xf86config, which is how I did it in slackware. When that was done I ran startx and I must have done something really messed up because I got a garbaged display, and when I killed X, because I was using a framebuffer, the console was also jarbled. I ended up blindly logging in as root and typing reboot. When I came back in to linux, it turns out that somehow I was in runlevel 4 and again the display was garbage and I couldn't get a descent display even by switching to a different virtual terminal. Even when I tried booting linux through lilo with: linux 3 it wouldn't boot me to text mode.

That's when I decided to reinstall. This time, I chose simple package selection. The installation took about 1.5 hours. This time, during the install, it configured X. I had to use a generic VGA driver, because it seems to be a very old version of Xfree(3.x), and didn't seem to have support for my agp card. Anyhow, I managed to get into X in 640x480x4 mode.
First, I wanted to check if this sound card that I found worked in linux. It turned out that I didn't install any mp3 players. So I ran dselect and selected a few mp3 players including xmms and it worked really nice. Very impressive package installating compared to slackware. When I tried playing sounds it turned out that I didn't have permisions, but everything worked great as root.
Then I decided time to get internet/modem working. I have this wierdo us robotics modem that must use /dev/ttyS4(COM5), but it turns out that the kernel that I installed(which I don't think I chose anywhere), didn't have support for more than 4 com ports enabled. I reeally didn't feel like compiling the kernel.

Now, my debian system seems to be a mess, and will take me a while to get fixed up(compile new kernel, upgrade Xfree, install nvidia drivers, learn about how apt dude works). I'm thinking of ditching debian and going back to good old slackware. The one thing that is almost stopping me is debian's supposebly good package managment. On the other hand, I really like compiling from source. Maybe I should try gentoo?

My current situation: Debian is installed, and needs a lot of work. Do I work on it, or go back to good old slackware, or try something else(gentoo)? Is debian really worth the pain that I am suffering?

[cage47]

I gotta say, I'm in the same boat, but I'm further along. I did an ftp install of the base potato install with icewm. Because my cd's have bad burns and used the cd's to finish with packages I know aren't messed up. I can get a basic install but when I get into the down and dirty of configuring Deb it's a pisser. I tri-booted it along side my Mandrake 8.0 by using my /home partition (and subsequently moving my /home dir back onto / partition) Well I finally realized I am too stuck on Redhat/Mandrake style to go back to Debian. I won't knock it since it taught me Linux 2 1/2 years ago. But some of the configuring that is basic in Mandrake, that only takes a few minutes, takes far more digging in Debian. Also I didn't think it would really bug me but I really don't like the out of date packages in Debian. Yes it's stable, but so is my 8.0 and I don't need a day to configure the base system. In Mandrake 8.0 I have my full setup done/configured/running smooth in 6-7 hours, including installing SO5.2,WordPerfect 8.0,Mozilla from Cooker,Acrobat,and tweaking my icewm and KDE, and getting my network configured. Though I did love the way apt worked when I got it figured out, guess I'll have to check out the apt ported to Mandrake.

[bdl]

Originally posted by wolfman8k:
<STRONG>

My current situation: Debian is installed, and needs a lot of work. Do I work on it, or go back to good old slackware, or try something else(gentoo)? Is debian really worth the pain that I am suffering?</STRONG>

Personally I think if you're unwilling at this point to spend some time working with Debian, you're better off leaving Gentoo alone. What was wrong with using Slackware?

[scott_R]

Wolfman: Try installing a pitiful basic install, then use debian's apt to install testing/woody. That's the recommendation from debian.org from a few weeks ago. Installing a bunch of packages not only creates problems, but will require you to download updates for stuff that is rediculously outdated (potato is circa 1999, i think).

XFree86 4+ is included (and mostly required for modern cards) in this type of install, but you'll have to use the console to get the upgrade started. (Easy, I'm using an NVidia geforce2 mx400.)

I've never used slackware, but I've used redhat, mandrake, suse, caldera, and a couple minor distros, and although debian was a pain in the butt to get running the first time, it's the easiest to maintain, the easiest to reinstall (all problems are simple to resolve once you've dealt with them once), and as bad as my first install was, definitely worth it.

Cage: I know things get frustrating, but why are you configuring deb with a basic install? you shouldn't have too do that, potato isn't completely dumb, it's just more set up for server service than desktop use. It took me less time to install debian potato, with a "complete install", and the fixes to get it running (the negligence of a resolv.conf file shows the serverside of the distro) providing that I had a clue (which I usually don't) than it did to get mandrake running (8.0) in the "install everything" sense.

[scanez]

I'm sorry but nothing you described was Debian's fault. X configuration is done differently in Debian, sound permissions are by no means the distro's fault, and neither is how many serial ports the kernel supports. You will most likely have the issues with other distros so please do not blame Debian.

If you don't want to learn the stuff, the I suggest you use something else, probably not Gentoo as others have said though. If you are willing to take the time, then go ahead and try Gentoo or if you stil want Debian, I also suggest apt-get upgrading to testing or waiting a few weeks until woody is released.

Cheers

[sarah31]

oh boo hoo. just install the base and what ever packages but not x.Configure your inet connection and then point your sources.list to woody and apt-get update then apt-get dist-upgrade. When that is all done apt-get install x-window-system to install xfree86 4.1.
then configure x.

Compile the 2.4.18 kernel. Sound install alsa if you are having trouble.

Like the others said if you don't have the patience to install Debian (which is pretty easy)then gentoo is out of your league. I went from Mandrake to Debian and was able to get it right with two tries, including x, a new kernel, nvidia drivers and (after a week of trying to figure out wht i need to compile in the kernel for alsa to work)sound.

When i reinstalled to write the steps for a friend it took me 1.5 hours to get that all done and write a tutorial of how i did it.

In the end if you had done a little searching you could have easily found out that there are unofficial woody isos available.

No sympathy here for you nor agreement that Debain sucks. Talk to your slackware friends for that.

[wolfman8k]

You guys are right. I shouldn't have given up so early. When I started this topic it was 2am and I was sitting by the computer for about 7 hours straight.

Anyway, I'm going to reinstall debian using the simple package method, recompile my kernel, get internet working from the console, and try to upgrade Xfree through the internet(too bad I have modem :( )

[bdl]

Originally posted by wolfman8k:
<STRONG>You guys are right. I shouldn't have given up so early. When I started this topic it was 2am and I was sitting by the computer for about 7 hours straight.
</STRONG>

Well, that'll do it to you, for sure. It's better when you can go away from the PC for a few hours and come back to spend an afternoon working on it than tearing your hair out for hours on end trying to get something to work.

<STRONG>
Anyway, I'm going to reinstall debian using the simple package method, recompile my kernel, get internet working from the console, and try to upgrade Xfree through the internet(too bad I have modem :( )</STRONG>


That's basically it. Debian isn't like other distros where everything is setup for you before you reboot the first time; you have to know something about Linux to get it to do what you want.

I'd suggest going over the Debian Installation Guide (http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install) before you do anything else especially this particular portion about APT (http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-init-config.en.html#s-configure-apt).

[ 13 April 2002: Message edited by: bdl ]

[jetblackz]

In order of difficult starting from the hardest IMO

*BSD
gentoo
Debian
Slack
Red, Mandy, Open, Turbo, etc. all tied

So go ahead, and enjoy gentoo. :D

[sarah31]

Originally posted by jetblackz:
<STRONG>In order of difficult starting from the hardest IMO

*BSD
gentoo
Debian
Slack
Red, Mandy, Open, Turbo, etc. all tied

So go ahead, and enjoy gentoo. :D</STRONG>

Missing a few no? :)

[mdwatts]

Sarah... You find Gentoo hard?

With the instuctions provided on their site, even I can do it. :rolleyes:

[cage47]

Now granted, the base and network stuff was fine to install. I had my network setup just as soundly as my Mandrake install. I stick by linuxconf. I even got my two nics working together. A problem I just learned how to fix a couple weeks ago. But my goal was to get a good desktop installed and then apt-get kde2 from woody. But there were specific issues I had with configuring the desktop. My X was setup OK but I had issues with how it performed, and how I could configure Deb. I'll admit, I'm a little spoiled by Mandrake's tools. I like having my configs at my fingers rather than digging for something basic.CUPS is a lot easier to setup in Mandrake than in Debian. And I am still a little put off with the older packages. I got Mozilla 0.97 from Cooker but relegated to an older version even in Woody. I won't knock Debian. It has it's place...just that I prefer Mandrake. But I would consider Deb my #2 choice. I won't take part in any distro bashing aside from beating the dead dog....COREL! :mad: