My Linux/Unix and not Windows?

[Jack Mann]

Hello,

I am a Windows guy and am desperately trying to understand the allure of all this *nix stuff. Now I understand the ideological attraction to GNU and Linux as opposed to the proprietary Windows, but as for actually using the os as a working tool, I just don't get it and I'd like to understand.
Windows is user-friendly, stable (for the most part) and has a great GUI; makes getting the job done much easier. I know that there are windows managers out there for Linux but even so, my friends who use it are usually on command line (we hate the DOS prompt in Win land). There are also so many great applications for Windows.
Now, I guess ther old argument of relative stability had some truth and that's why big hitters used Unix. But now with the first service pack for Win 2000 advance server on its way, WIn 2000 will be as stable as Unix. I guess what it comes down to for me is trying to justify spending time learning something with a higher learning curve than what I'm currently using. Are there any "gems" in the Linux world that I don't know about that may intice me to spend that time learning this other os?
I'm not trying to cause trouble here or start a fight with you guys, just curious and a little stuped. All respectful replies appreciated.

Thanks Much,

Jack

[osnap]

Linux isn't for everyone, but if you want TOTAL control over EVERYTHING then use Linux, but if you prefer some dumbass 13 year old coder replacing some important files with his own and not telling you about it then use Winders. There isn't much threat to viruses in Linux, but look how many there are for Windows.

I use Linux because it is fun and makes me want to learn more, Windows just makes you dumber and dumber. Sure Linux will kick you in the *** sometimes, but you'll love every second of it and before you know it you'll try to break things just to see what happens.

As for Win2000 being as stable as Unix, all I've got to say is that I just got through rebooting Win2000 here at school because it locked up from having 2 (that's two) programs running at the same time. At home on my Linux machine I usually have 40-50 things going on at any given time without anything slowing to a crawl or locking up, and if something does lock up it won't bring down the whole system.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[mychl]

Hi Jack,
I think what is going on is that eventually.... Linux will turn into something just as easy, friendly, and useable as Windows. But to get to that point we all need to learn how to do it so that we can all contribute to it. There is no Bill Gates here ranting about getting things done, only people trying to get what they need, and if its not around, they make it.

I tend to agree with you that if I need to do something important, I use my win98 partition, (Mostly because my Linux isn't fully functional..YET).

I guess you could compare it to some one who likes cars. They would probably be a lot happier driving around in one that they customized themselves, or even Built themselves; rather than one off the lot.

Hope I helped...

[ 22 February 2001: Message edited by: mychl ]

[Sweede]

I would use linux, its arguably faster, its as stable (depending on hardware and distro) as m installtion of windows 2000. it generally supports all the same hardware, and i have hardware that works in linux but not windows 2000 (my ISA scsi card).

the problems with linux? i simply cannot get X to stay stable with my video card for more than a few days. I also cannot play any OpenGL games such as Quake3. ANy window manager i use, and any version of X (well, just 3.3.6 and 4.0.2 are the only ones that have support for my video card, no other version will come close to working), it'll be fine for a few minutes, then it will freeze up for a few minutes, off and on until i get fed up with it. but everything else is fine.

The other problem i have with linux? I require a WORKING, Stable, FAST and very very featured word processor. having used AbiWord, Koffice StarOffice, none compare to Office 2000. Same with the Spreadsheat and Powerpoint.

I also do web design, i adore homesite, its the best editor in any OS, sorry for those that like vi(m), but it just blows the doors off of vi(m) (although you cant run a toaster in it like you can in emacs ;) ). Homesite inst avialble for Linux.

I also use Adobe Photoshop, which has no equal. Gimp is about 5 years behind photoshop.

i dont want to get into the Netscape/Mozilla v.s. IE. im not including konquorer or Opera becuase i think they are still to young and dont support 1/4th of what NS or IE does.


Linux has its niche in the market, its the Server domain. it might hit the consumer or MAYBE the business market, but its far far far to young in development to reach mass market shares.

theres too many flavors of linux, too many flavors of window managers, too many flavors of everything.

ok, yea more choices, right? wrong. here's the situation.

you work for companyA that uses Redhat+KDE+Koffice, you quit and move to company B that uses Slackware+Gnome+StarOffice

then you goto Company C that uses debian+E+abiword/gnumeric

now really, do you want to learn all three linux distro's over each time? (speaking from an IT view)

or would you rather just shove windows 2000 on everything, use Office 2000 and not have to worry about retraining your IT department each time a new employee arrives.

when the GNU/Linux/Open source community figures out a single path to follow, then they can really make a move to the business market.

thatsmy opinion

[error27]

I use linux for the programming tools.

But I'll be honest, for me great technology is an end in itself. A lot of people don't feel that way. They're free to feel how ever they wish.

Someday... Someday soon Linux will have a decent set of office tools. After that then I'd feel more comfortable suggesting my parents use Linux.

[Sauron]

Most people tend to have their own set of reasons for why they used operating system A over opsys B. The best thing to do would be to just try out Linux and see how it works for you.

As to why I prefer Linux over Windows...

Linux has been much more stable than any version of Windows that I've used, including Windows 2000. I've actually had 2000 (and even 98) running pretty stable on my system, but still occasionally run into crashes. Linux, on the other hand, has NEVER crashed on me, not once. Linux is also generally much safer from virii, and doesn't have a centralized registry that is ripe for screwing up. You can also use a journaling file system (Reiser FS), which comes in VERY handy for those who like repartitioning their hard drives.

On the other hand, many Linux applications are NOT more stable than their Windows counterparts. Show me a stable web browser for Linux and I'll show you how hell freezes over. There isn't one in existence that I've tried (and I've tried damn near all of them).

Just some food for thought...

[Sauron]

Most people tend to have their own set of reasons for why they used operating system A over opsys B. The best thing to do would be to just try out Linux and see how it works for you.

As to why I prefer Linux over Windows...

Linux has been much more stable than any version of Windows that I've used, including Windows 2000. I've actually had 2000 (and even 98) running pretty stable on my system, but still occasionally run into crashes. Linux, on the other hand, has NEVER crashed on me, not once. Linux is also generally much safer from virii, and doesn't have a centralized registry that is ripe for screwing up. You can also use a journaling file system (Reiser FS), which comes in VERY handy for those who like repartitioning their hard drives.

On the other hand, many Linux applications are NOT more stable than their Windows counterparts. Show me a stable web browser for Linux and I'll show you how hell freezes over. There isn't one in existence that I've tried (and I've tried damn near all of them).

Just some food for thought...

[Sauron]

Most people tend to have their own set of reasons for why they used operating system A over opsys B. The best thing to do would be to just try out Linux and see how it works for you.

As to why I prefer Linux over Windows...

Linux has been much more stable than any version of Windows that I've used, including Windows 2000. I've actually had 2000 (and even 98) running pretty stable on my system, but still occasionally run into crashes. Linux, on the other hand, has NEVER crashed on me, not once. Linux is also generally much safer from virii, and doesn't have a centralized registry that is ripe for screwing up. You can also use a journaling file system (Reiser FS), which comes in VERY handy for those who like repartitioning their hard drives.

On the other hand, many Linux applications are NOT more stable than their Windows counterparts. Show me a stable web browser for Linux and I'll show you how hell freezes over. There isn't one in existence that I've tried (and I've tried damn near all of them).

Just some food for thought...

[f'lar]

note to sweede about the move from company A to B to C thing (I could argue about the other stuff, but you've been through that often enough):
there are some things that don't change, no matter what system you're on be it windows, linux, mac, sun, whatever. Underneath it all works in somewhat the same way, and whatever gui you use, it has to solve most of the same problems. Thus there tends to be a certain genericness(is that a word?) to each system. If you can learn that, then if you know one gui you really don't have to learn a new one: you just get used to it. Linux helps teach that.

[Tyr-7BE]

They both have their bugs and they both have their strong points. Win 2k is definately stable, which IMHO was the downfall of 98. However, linux tends to be a lot faster than Windows (which is the reason I switched...that combined with several bluescreens per day). As was previously mentioned, Linux gives you complete control over everything that you do. It's used a lot in the server market for this reason, combined with its stability. Linux still has a toe in the world of tinkerers' OS's. It's made for people who have mission-critical tasks to perform that require a stable platform that can run relatively unattended (eg, major webservers). As far as desktop users go, the vast majority of us are geeks who love to see how things work. I think that almost everyone on this board has at LEAST one story of how broke Linux was and they had to roll up their sleeves and fix it.

[ovf]

Linux is the most fun you can have for $40 without having to worry about getting arrested. It appeals to the tinkerer in us and is much easier to explore than windows for someone who wants to know what's going on under the hood.

I've been using it for about a year now and it's had it's ups and downs but I've had a lot of fun with it and learned a lot. It's been as stable as my windows systems and came with more useful software than windows 98, which cost 4 times as much.

[n2linux]

windows 98, which cost 4 times as much.

Okay, let me do some math. (cost of linux)*(4) = zero

Wait, since when was Windows free?? Maybe you meant to say "...which crashes 4 times as much."

:D

[Tyr-7BE]

Just to add something to my previous post, Windows was created on *nix systems. That's an example of *nix's capabilities :)

[jrbush82]

I'm a newbie to the Linux world, but one thing that I like a lot about the OS is that you have control over each little thing. Granted, different distributions can run and install tons of stuff without you wanting it to, but you can customize and select each package if you know exactly what you want.

The speed of the OS is amazing, no rebooting every time something is installed, its a lot like a router, when a change is made, its done and is effect. I run Mandrake 7.2 with Netscape 6, and I also run Win98 SE with Netscape 6, tons faster and tons more stable in Linux. A post above says that there is no stable browser for Linux, but name one for Windows... IE? no, if IE crashes, your whole system crashes.

Linux networking is the downfall that I've found so far. DHCP is nice, and is great auctually, but when it comes to file sharing and such, it isn't all that great, but then again I'm a newbie to Linux, and might be missing something.

It is always a plus to know Linux, especially if you are in the Computer field. The OS is out there, and you will run into it every now and then, heck, maybe a lot... If you don't know what distrobution to use, I suggest either Mandrake 7.2 or Redhat 7.0... 7.1 is on the verge of coming out, you may wait for that if you aren't in a hurry.

A big thing that I love about the OS is that I have learned so much about my hardware and all the specs about anything within my system. Linux has true multitasking and won't leave u looking at a blue screen if one program/process messes up.

One last thing, if you are skeptical about it, go to a Wal-Mart (Supercenter) and pick-up Mandrake 7.2 for 30 or 40 bucks, or u can spend 3 days downloading on a 56k dial-up (thats what I did... :) )You can duel boot Linux and Windows and if you find u don't want Linux after a while, get rid of it... or vise versa...

Just ramblin... :)

[Jack Mann]

Wow, 13 replies. I have to say, I'm very appreciative of all the helpful, sincere, well thought out responses. I thought I'd get a sour response as a happy Windows user. The Windows forums I've been to haven't been as supportive as this...

So, now I'm intrigued with the interest you've all shown in the Linux os. For me, Windows is like starting the car in the morning, most likely it will run and do what you want it to, but I really never look under the hood. The ability you've described to have more control over the os is exciting. I've decided to get a Red Hat distribution and tinker with it at home after work (my wife will grow to hate Linux I'm sure).

Anyway, thanks again for you help, patience and sincerity. If I end up a Linux user, it was because this forum started me off in the right direction.

Cheers,

Jack

[jrbush82]

Good Luck...

[f'lar]

...you're gonna need it.

[2thumbs]

Windows2000 stable? AAHAHA even with the SP1 it's junk. "Safe mode" causes a stop error when a cd is in the CD-ROM drive( tried it on two machines, SCSI CD-ROM). Yesterday, I was cranking MP3s on winamp and went into the ID3 tag editor and it caused a stop error. The stupid thing fubars everyonce in a while where I can't click on anything on the desktop so I hafta 3 finger salute it and hit cancel. At which point I can use my desktop again, but this causes power management to fail and the screen saver no longer kicks in. AHAHA. Sorry, had to vent a bit :)

Anyways, with some of the kick *** utilities that come with most distros today, Linux is more user friendly than any M$ OS. How user friendly is it when you have to reboot just because you updated your video card drivers?

[Tyr-7BE]

Good luck man. Just a word of advice...don't give up on that sucker. Some people get their installations working right off the bat; I had to screw around with mine for 6 months before I could get it working. If you're new to Linux, go for either a Red Hat system, or a Mandrake system. I use Mandrake 7.2 and it holds your hand for the really tough things, but lets you wander enough to get to know the system.
And you'll grow to LOVE the terminal ;)